Battlefront

Name

As the move thing said, I simply moved it to make it more inclusive, in the off chance that Deathwing eventually takes an active part against both factions. Though it still could use a better name. /shrug --TheUltimate (talk) 01:34, July 6, 2010 (UTC)

Just to be clear, the template did say to discuss it first, before moving. I edited the template to be a little more clearer. Sssssssssssssssssssssssss For Pony! (^Sssss/_Slithered) 12:05, July 6, 2010 (UTC)

I know, I didn't notice the template until after. Which was why I moved it back. Deepest apologizes.--TheUltimate (talk) 12:21, July 6, 2010 (UTC)

No worries. Sssssssssssssssssssssssss For Pony! (^Sssss/_Slithered) 12:30, July 6, 2010 (UTC)

Regardless of Deathwing's involvement or not, I still think "Cataclysm War" or "War of the Cataclysm" roll off the tongue more easily, in keeping with prior naming conventions. Somehow it's not enough of a total war to be the "Fourth War". Deepred (talk) 06:56, October 8, 2010 (UTC)

The Great Wars have, historically, been worldwide conflicts that may or may not be multisided, have involved conflict between the Alliance and Horde and other actors, and have also caused widespread destruction. I think the Fourth War is an apt title. Thio (talk) 21:40, 20 October 2010 (UTC)

Curious: Would it be fine to drop (Cataclysm) from the title? It seems very unneeded as there are no other articles called Alliance-Horde War.--TheUltimate3 (talk) 01:15, 31 October 2010 (UTC)

Background

How much detail should the background of the war go into? The war had been brewing from events as early as Vanilla WoW, and a simple "Varian declared war in the Battle for the Undercity" doesn't seem like it goes into enough detail. However, we obviously can't detail everything that led up to war, as that goes as far back as the First War. What sort of limit should be set? -- Fojar(talk) 07:58, July 6, 2010 (EST)

I threw together the scenario leading up to from Vanilla leading up to Cataclysm. (The vanilla BGs, how they were at peace until the Wrathgate), but the Cataclysm portion is still just a blurb. I think it's just going to stay like that until we actually know what happens.--TheUltimate (talk) 12:23, July 6, 2010 (UTC)

Possible Reasons why the Alliance was able to expand into Southern Barrens

Lieutenant Alverold Exploratory Fleet could have finished their scouting mission and returned at the same time as a Stormwind reinforcements and supplies fleet came to the barrens and add the forces Tiragarde Keep and with the Horde having only a little presence in the Southern Barrens it probably was not to hard to claim part of the southern Barrens. These are just ideas. Rimor Conscientia (talk) 17:17, July 6, 2010 (UTC)

Is King Magni dead?

Is King Magni dead? Thats my question. Rimor Conscientia (talk) 05:18, July 7, 2010 (UTC)

He was turned into a statue, that's about as dead as someone can get. If you want to rationalize it, Blizzard probably needed to kill off an Alliance faction leader to match the death of Cairne.AhotahThunderhorn (talk) 05:25, July 7, 2010 (UTC)

Actually, being turned into a statue seems rather explicitly NOT dead. There are, of course, other complications involved, but unlike Cairne there's the possibility (and a very likely one, I think) that he will eventually get better. -- Dark T Zeratul (talk) 06:52, July 9, 2010 (UTC)

Just like Zeratul said, he's not dead. He was petrified and consolidated into the Ironforge's Diamond Core. That means that if that fat old dwarf will actually do his homework about the titan tablets, or through some shamanistic/druidic magic, Magni might return;D Encaitar 20:57, 6 January 2011 (UTC)

Will this war also take place in Northrend and Outland?

Will there be fighting in Northrend and Outland? Or quests related to the war? Rimor Conscientia (talk) 17:13, July 7, 2010 (UTC)

As far as I know. This will only be Kalimdor and Eastern Kingdoms. I may be wrong. Gamerd (talk) 23:56, July 7, 2010 (UTC)

They said at Blizzcon they're not making any changes to Outland or Northrend beyond things like Archeology nodes and other miscellaneous changes due to game mechanic updates. -- Dark T Zeratul (talk) 07:02, July 9, 2010 (UTC)

Have three years passed in game in World of Warcraft since Wrath of the Lich King?

I was wondering have three years really passed lore wise because I thought the events of World of Warcraft Cataclysm happened like a year after WOTLK in the game world of Azeroth. Because the article says three years have passed since Alliance and Horde forces first arrive on Northrend. Just wondering. Rimor Conscientia (talk) 23:04, July 19, 2010 (UTC)

Yes. It's set 10 years after the Battle of Mount Hyjal and 5 years after classic WoW, which means it's set 3 years after the start of Wrath of the Lich King. WoWWiki-Suzaku (talk) 07:37, July 20, 2010 (UTC)

Tandred Proudmoore

Is Tandred Proudmoore really a commander for the Alliance forces. Correct me if I am wrong, but he has not appeared in-game, and neither the fleet of Kul Tiras. I the previous statement is right, I think he shouldn't be listed a a commander for the Alliance. Overlord Divine (talk) 17:47, October 1, 2010 (UTC)

Well, Baradin's Warden have the tabard of Kul Tiras, so it's assumed that the Grand Admiral as a hand in some way in the war. Guyomeprime (talk) 22:29, October 7, 2010 (UTC)

Ok. That i didn't know of. So perhaps you are right. Anyway, thanks for making it clear.Overlord Divine (talk) 09:09, October 8, 2010 (UTC)

An earlyish beta pic shows them in Kul Tiras tabards. I'm not sure if it's still the same with the latest build. Deepred (talk) 05:21, 24 October 2010 (UTC)

I have also reacently red on the Kul Tiras article that Tol Barad was claimed by them after the Second War, so that makes sense for the Baradin Watchers to have the Kul Tiras tabards.Overlord Divine (talk) 15:15, October 8, 2010 (UTC)

Five years?

Why is it stated "Five years after the Battle for Mount Hyjal, the fragile truce between the Horde and Alliance had all but evaporated" in the article, when in the intro video of vanilla WoW it is stated "four years have passed since.."? Guyomeprime (talk) 02:11, October 6, 2010 (UTC)

Galen-controlled Stromgarde?

I noticed that Galen-controlled Stromgarde is one of the combatants in this war, while I know that Galen Trollbane is now a member of the Forsaken I have heard nothing of a Horde-Alliance battle over Stromgarde. So this someone's guess work or will the Forsaken claim apart of the Stromgarde? --Sairez (talk) 03:21, 21 October 2010 (UTC)

Someone decided it would be a good idea to put every faction even loosely associated with the Horde or Alliance in the combatants section, even when they're completely uninvolved. I'm not really sure what the logic was in that. -- Dark T Zeratul (talk) 01:16, 31 October 2010 (UTC)

I think that Sairez actually meant why is Galen listed under the Alliance, and not the Horde, since as Undead Forsaken he should be listed as Horde Commander. Encaitar 14:39, 7 January 2011 (UTC)

Galen is listed as a Horde commander and I was talking about seeing Galen-controlled Stromgarde as one the Horde forces. --Sairez (talk) 21:50, 7 January 2011 (UTC)

But Stromgarde itself isn't even really part of either side anymore; it's been controlled by the Syndicate since Vanilla. And even if you're talking about the kingdom, Galen ceased to control it when he was killed. -- Dark T Zeratul (talk) 21:52, 7 January 2011 (UTC)

Malfurion is not an Alliance commander

Malfurion is neutral in Cataclysm. Wherever Horde chars meet him he's either neutral(Darn) or friendly (darkshore and hyjal). He doesn't give orders to kill anything that has anything to do with the Horde and is a member of Cenarion Circle. The fact that he's Tyrande's husband doesn't change anything. He's not an Alliance Commander in this War therefore he shouldn't be listed. Encaitar 17:48, 16 January 2011 (UTC)

As he should be. Furion was in the Emerald Nightmare when the night elves joined the Alliance. He has no real alliegance to them beyond being a night elf, and not every night elf is in the Alliance (see: Cenarion Circle). Reign (talk) 18:02, 16 January 2011 (UTC)

Exactly aswell as the fact that Hammuul Runetotem is not listed as the Horde Commander either, evethough he's a Tauren, and actually one being marked with Thunderbluff tag. Yet he's more in Cenarion Circle so hopefully Thebardinblack will stop adding Malfurion to the page:P Encaitar 18:12, 16 January 2011 (UTC)

Camp Taurajo wasn't a massacre

Hi, I think that Ultimaton100’s edits to this page are biased and exaggerated. It went from:

“In the Southern Barrens Alliance forces have invaded the eastern lands while the Horde has mainatined control of the west. The Alliance has constructed a new military outpost to try to solidify their control of their new territory while the Horde has done the same to prevent further Alliance expansion. The central region between the two forts has become a war zone as the factions fight for control. The Alliance launched an attack on the peaceful village of Camp Taurajo, which ended in some civilian casualties. This act of perceived cruelty by the Alliance has stirred the Horde and bolstered their resolve. The Horde has begun efforts to drive the Alliance back as a result. The new Horde general made an example of General Hawthorne by assassinating him on the streets of the Battlescar. In the initial Horde counter-attack, Gann Stonespire leads an angry mob of Horde civilians to raid the dwarven digsites in Bael Modan. These raids led to the death Marley Twinbraid, son of General Twinbraid. The Horde also manages to blow up the dwarven fortress known as Bael'dun Keep. General Twinbraid finds the corpse of Weezil Slipshadow in the ruins of Bael'dun Keep and thinks it must have been the goblin workers in Frazzlecraz Motherlode who were responsible for the destruction at Bael Modan. He sends Alliance adventurers to kill every goblin miner they can find in the mine..”

to:

“ In the Southern Barrens Alliance forces have invaded the eastern lands while the Horde has mainatined control of the west. The Alliance has constructed a new military outpost to try to solidify their control of their new territory while the Horde has done the same to prevent further Alliance expansion. The central region between the two forts has become a war zone as the factions fight for control. The Alliance launched an attack on the peaceful village of Camp Taurajo, which ended in a massacre. This act of cruelty by the Alliance has bolstered Horde resolve. The Horde has begun to drive the Alliance back as a result. The new Horde general made an example of General Hawthorne, the general responsible for the Taurajo Massacre, by sending adventurers to ambush and kill him. In the initial Horde counter-attack, the Horde was able to destroy Bael Modan.”

It is an assumption, not a fact, that Hawthorne’s men did not obey his orders. Many of the Horde NPCs in Taurajo did manage to escape to Camp Una'fe. He says that he ordered it during the attack so he had to be there as the actual attack was occurring. And seeing as Hawthorne’s quest Clap’em in Irons imply that he’s a hardass who doesn’t tolerate insubordination, why would he permit it in an actual military operation? If the Alliance allowed civilians to escape, I would hardly call it a massacre. Also, I don't see why he removed the other things like General Twinbraid's lash out at the goblins. Or Gann Stonespires raids on the dwarven digsites.

I think you should undo his edits. (Sports72Xtrm (talk) 08:02, 22 March 2011 (UTC))

The Great Merge: A Broke world, breaking in war

Well I see many affiliated or related conflicts since the start of the second arc of the comic. May I have to list them and other preludes for the organization of the new article:
Preludes: Initial Alliance-Horde tensions and "Could War"Immeasurably Twilight's Hammer Insurgency - Is the first prelude to this all about (New Council of Tirisfal and allies VS Twilight's Hammer clan)
Battle for the Undercity and Alliance-Horde de jure in war
War agaisnt the Nightmare
The Conflict is imminent: Elemental Unrest
The Shattering: Prelude to the Cataclysm
Shattering: A world crying in apocalypse and blood...: Alliance-Horde War

• Alliance-Horde War in Lordaeron
  • Invasion of Gilneas

 [25] Elemental War

This lists what the article have to describe. Well it is immeasurably BIG... So to don't have a immense article with I propose:
1 - Put a "complementar" template for this article, relating to  [25] Elemental War and break up Alliance-Horde War in Lordaeron (as Lordaeron turn into "Lordae", probably the major place of the war, due to the number of conflicts and factions involved)) to short it.
2 - Improve " [25] Elemental War" and create other lacking articles. (I forgott the rest... I have to go to bed, may I finish to state here later...) Gabrirt (talk) 06:44, 21 May 2011 (UTC)

Thoughts

Some comments about the article? (Gabrirt (talk) 00:04, October 16, 2010 (UTC))

Where is the soruce on this that it is called 'War in Cataclysm'? Gorvar (talk) 12:47, October 16, 2010 (UTC)

What is the difference between this and the elemental invasion article? Saberd of The Shattered Sun (talk) 17:47, October 16, 2010 (UTC)

This covers the "Deathwing and his minions" vs "Horde, Alliance and co." conflict in Cataclysm, while elemental invasion is only the pre-world cataclysm events.Overlord Divine (talk) 18:17, October 16, 2010 (UTC)

And it'll probably need a better name. I moved it to Elemental War, after the Elemental Invasion and the general fact that the elements play a large role in pretty much everything.--TheUltimate (talk) 18:24, October 16, 2010 (UTC)

Affiliated wars

The Alliance-Horde war isn't a war inside this one? Shoud it be moved to here? After may I'm underestimating the access, but this article is few accessed or it's just a bad impression? (Gabrirt (talk) 00:48, 12 March 2011 (UTC))

I believe that there should not be two article for what is called Elemental War and Alliance-Horde War.

Beside, I don't feel the Elemental Unrest is a part of this war but more an introduction event.

In one word: Merge!

Loremaster A'noob, Arch Druid of the Noobhoof Clan (^talk/_contribz) 13:08, 14 March 2011 (UTC)

Merged.

I did my best to merge this with Alliance-Horde war. Change to the name to Cataclysm War and we should be fine for now.  MoneygruberTheGoblinChieftain of the Gentleman Tribe(talk contribs) 22:18, 26 September 2011 (UTC)

Naming

Suggestion

Cataclysm War

War against Deathwing

1. Yes  MoneygruberTheGoblinChieftain of the Gentleman Tribe(talk contribs) 06:30, 29 October 2011 (UTC) - (no comment)
2. Yes --LemonBaby (talk) 12:49, 1 November 2011 (UTC) - (Same way as War against the Lich King since the article is now focused on the Deathwing & elementals war)
3. Yes Loremaster A'noob, Arch Druid of the Noobhoof Clan (^talk/_contribz) 12:50, 1 November 2011 (UTC) - (no comment)
4. Yes --Ashbear160 (talk) 13:01, 1 November 2011 (UTC) - (no comment)

Cataclysm Wars

Cataclysm events

Cataclysm Battles

Cataclysm storyline

Comments

Send forth your suggestion for this article name.

Loremaster A'noob, Arch Druid of the Noobhoof Clan (^talk/_contribz) 12:00, 22 October 2011 (UTC)

The contents of this article, is not the Elemental wars listed on the introduction of this article, rather it's a list of event that happen during the cataclysm.

This article actually lists 2 different wars, the Alliance-Horde War started in the Battle of Undercity, and the Old God-Defenders of Azeroth War, so i also think we should make a new article just for the Alliance-Horde War that started in the Battle of Undercity, trough Cataclysm and Mists of Pandaria, till it's end in the undefined future.--Ashbear160 (talk) 13:01, 1 November 2011 (UTC)

New approach

I put all the Alliance-Horde related conflicts to the Alliance-Horde War and removed the Zandalari incident. So now the page describes the conflict between Deathwing, his minions and the Defenders of Azeroth. Since the War during Wrath of the Lich King was called "War against the Lich King" I suggest to rename this page "War against Deathwing". Is there still a need for a seperate page called "Cataclysm events/storyline/War/Wars"? We could still create one for each expansion. Like a Vanilla, BC and Wrath events/storyline page. --LemonBaby (talk) 08:31, 2 November 2011 (UTC)

Agreed for the name, I add it in the suggestion just up there.

As for an expansion storyline article, that would be nice, but not too expanded maybe or else it would be a double use with the article it cites.

Loremaster A'noob, Arch Druid of the Noobhoof Clan (^talk/_contribz) 09:01, 2 November 2011 (UTC)

Is there realy a need for the whole command structure of the Alliance and the Horde? I don't want to start an edit war, but when someone wants to read about the Horde commend structure for example he should do that on the Horde page. Listening Gobber or Knight-Lord Bloodvalor is kind of ridiculous.--LemonBaby (talk) 20:40, 3 November 2011 (UTC)

Agreed, we just need those that are the leaders, and those that actually battle old god forces in the Cataclysm expansion.--Ashbear160 (talk) 21:20, 3 November 2011 (UTC)

Commanders

The following characters don't command anything, thats why they were removed:

• Malorne
• Broll Bearmantle <- has only a cameo as a sidekick
• Seer Galekk <- only a member of the earthen ring
• Earthmender Narvra
• Derth Firesinger
• Felora Firewreath
• Aggra <- She is only Thralls mate and not a commander during the war
• Erunak Stonespeaker
• Farseer Tooranu
• Caretaker Movra
• Seer Kormo
• The whole earth giants of therazene aren't commanders
• Duke Hydraxis <- He doesn't even appear in game anymore!
• Onyxia <- The good girl is a dead abomination unable to speak and was reanimated for 3minutes before we killed her again. Why is she a commander during that war?
• Ultraxion <- A powerful creation that has nothing to say
• Morchok <- A "soldier" not a commander
• Iso'rath <- making nightmares and eating people... super commander
• Erudax <- one of the greatest lieutenants of Deathwing.. but only a lieutenant.
• Avatar of Soggoth <- Alive for 10minutes? And only the avatar. It's like saying the avatar of Sargeras is a leader of the BL
• Hydrius <- hovering around for one quest doesn't make him a commander
• Skullcrusher the Mountain <- Just a weapon with no brain
• Hagara the Stormbinder <- loyal to the Twilights Hammer Clan but not one of their leaders
• Asira Dawnslayer <- she is a assasin working for the Cult. Not a commander

Unless there are arguments to reinclude them, I will remove them.--LemonBaby (talk) 13:26, 4 November 2011 (UTC)

My response to comanders

• Iso'rath he is a commander of the old gods and a huge tentacle monster
• Ultraxion is one of the last twilight dragons and the strongest then technically that makes him a commander
• Avatar of Soggoth because Soggoth is sealed and the avatar is the only representation of him in the azzeroth and that makes him a commander
• Onyxia like her mother she's undead but her mother can reproduce and so she can and she is the daughter of deathwing and that makes her a commander
• General Grimaxe is the leader of the twilight hammer's dark iron dwarfs
• Aggra is kinda like secound in comand plus i didn't put her there but she's still important

For Lemon Baby Ultimatex

Please provide a source for follwoing statements (questtext or otherwise):

• Iso'rath he is a commander of the old gods <- beeing huge doesn't mean he is intelligent. Prove that he commands anyone)
• Onyxia can reproduce. Onyxia doesn't command anyone. She is alive again for 3minutes. You can't say she is a commander
• Aggra is kinda like secound in comand
• Ultraxion <- beeing strong doesn't make him a commander. He is a puppet.
• Also decide: Avatar of Soggoth or Soggoth. Can't be both.

Keep in mind: Beeing important lore character doesn't mean that you can act as a commander on the battlefield. That in mind: Malorne runs around and fought some elementals. He is important. But he doesn't lead. And thats what this section should be about.--LemonBaby (talk) 16:21, 4 November 2011 (UTC)

Cairne Bloodhoof, Magni Bronzebeard

Should we include them both die should we.

Ultimatex

No, they died before the War even startet. They are not part of the war.--LemonBaby (talk) 16:21, 4 November 2011 (UTC)

Actually. Cairne combated Gahz'rilla and Prince Sarsarun.  MoneygruberTheGoblinChieftain of the Gentleman Tribe(talk contribs) 18:51, 4 November 2011 (UTC)

Soggoth

Just so it's here: Soggoth is dead. In Quest:The Battle for Darkshore the Twilight's Hammer is said to have "only managed to resurrect but a remnant of dread Soggoth," which is the Avatar of Soggoth. So: Soggoth himself is dead, and his avatar only appears at the very end of the quest chain and is promptly killed. So no, Soggoth shouldn't be listed as a commander, because he was never in charge of anything; it was all the Twilight's Hammer's doing. -- Dark T Zeratul (talk) 20:24, 4 November 2011 (UTC)

Removing Commanders

I'm going to remove any commanders that don't have any connection to the war against the old god minions, since someone deleted my earlier work i'll post the list here with reasons:

• AvH conflict iss not part of the elemental wars
  • Halford Wyrmbane
  • Commander Arrington
  • General Hawthorne
  • Thassarian
  • Prince Liam Greymane
  • Lord Darius Crowley
  • Lorna Crowley
  • High Warlord Cromush
  • Overlord Krom'gar
  • Warlord Gar'dul
  • Drek'Thar
  • Fallen Prince Galen Trollbane
  • Dark Ranger Thyala†
  • Koltira Deathweaver
  • Forward Commander Onslaught†
  • High Executor Crenshaw
• Council of the 3 hammers is already a leader no need to repost it's members(it only increasse the list needlessly)
  • Muradin Bronzebeard
  • Falstad Wildhammer
  • Queen-Regent Moira Thaurissan
• Useless repetition
  • Hamuul Runetotem
• Participant but not a commander
  • Broll Bearmantle
  • Aggra
  • Onyxia
  • Ultraxion
  • Ozumat
  • Malorne
• Moving the following because they took the position after their death
  • Cho'gall
  • Cairne Bloodhoof
  • King Magni Bronzebeard
• Moving him because he's subservient to the Skywall
  • Dark Pharaoh Tekahn
• Moving Alexstraza and these because she doesn't rule over all the defenders
  • Alexstrasza
  • Korialstrasz
  • Calen
• Being of the same race doesn't say she is servant to azshara
  • Zar'jira
• Adding the stone lords because they are therazane commanders

Any problems say here--Ashbear160 (talk) 20:37, 4 November 2011 (UTC)

The Neferset are still a force in and of themselves, so Tekahn should still be listed. Alexstrasza may not directly command every single red dragon, but seems to do a fair bit of leading; enough that she should be listed. I'm not entirely sure what you're trying to say about Cho'gall, but he was leading the Twilight's Hammer for most of the major events of the war until his death, so he should definitely be included. I'm also leaning towards removing Nefarian, because he wasn't so much leading anything as he was sitting in Blackrock Mountain continuing his experiments. I'm also thinking about removing the "Old Gods" header and putting Deathwing at the top, since the Old Gods themselves never make an appearance and everyone else is, ultimately, subservient to Deathwing to some degree. -- Dark T Zeratul (talk) 20:43, 4 November 2011 (UTC)

Actually can we reason with Alexstrasza being the Dragon Queen she rules over Ysera, Kalecgos, and Nozdormu? MoneygruberTheGoblinChieftain of the Gentleman Tribe(talk contribs) 20:42, 4 November 2011 (UTC)

Dark most of those i'm just moving around... and yeah she is the dragonqueen we can work with that.--Ashbear160 (talk) 20:50, 4 November 2011 (UTC)

War against the Zandalari

Should we make a separate article for the war fought against the troll empires during Cataclysm?  MoneygruberTheGoblinChieftain of the Gentleman Tribe(talk contribs) 19:18, 4 November 2011 (UTC)

Yes. -- Dark T Zeratul (talk) 19:22, 4 November 2011 (UTC)

That was easy.  MoneygruberTheGoblinChieftain of the Gentleman Tribe(talk contribs) 19:24, 4 November 2011 (UTC)

Defenders of Azeroth

I think we should fuse the alliance and horde sections into the defenders of azeroth section, because when it came to the old gods(which this article is about) they were a united force(also see if everything doesn't get squished by the ginormous infobox)--Ashbear160 (talk) 20:48, 4 November 2011 (UTC)

I think it's for the best that we do what's in the Outland war article. We put Horde and Alliance into one section but keep it very well distinguished they never worked together.  MoneygruberTheGoblinChieftain of the Gentleman Tribe(talk contribs) 20:55, 4 November 2011 (UTC)

OK but we don't really need to list every faction leader and every nation just those that are actual participants of this war--Ashbear160 (talk) 20:58, 4 November 2011 (UTC)

Horde means the Horde. We shouldn't need to specify their nations. I'll take care of it real quick.  MoneygruberTheGoblinChieftain of the Gentleman Tribe(talk contribs)

No worries i've done it--Ashbear160 (talk) 21:04, 4 November 2011 (UTC)

Left the Wildhammer and Dragonmaw because they are fighting the twilight hammer while fighting each other in the twilight highlands.

Put every alliance commander under varian and garrosh. hope that's not a problems--Ashbear160 (talk) 21:05, 4 November 2011 (UTC)

I thought the same. Done.  MoneygruberTheGoblinChieftain of the Gentleman Tribe(talk contribs) 21:06, 4 November 2011 (UTC)

Sorry im quick to jump onto things. You could change it back to your revision if you like  MoneygruberTheGoblinChieftain of the Gentleman Tribe(talk contribs) 21:11, 4 November 2011 (UTC)

Nah don't worry i've already corrected it also your alliance and horde after is better.

Is there any missing commanders? mind they must have lead a war against the Old gods minions.--Ashbear160 (talk) 21:15, 4 November 2011 (UTC)

Is there any other alliance/horde subfaction that's prominent that they fought against old god minions?--Ashbear160 (talk) 21:17, 4 November 2011 (UTC)

I think we should put instead of Alexstrasza as the leader we can put the Dragon Aspect or all of dragon aspect's names together?--Ultimatex (talk) 11:46, 4 November 2011 (UTC)

Alexstraza is the Dragon queen she rules over all dragons--Ashbear160 (talk) 23:38, 4 November 2011 (UTC)

Activity

A lot of activity on this page today... hope I don't have to lock it down for some edit wars I see taking place. Sssssssssssssssssssssssss For Pony! (^Sssss/_Slithered) 21:09, 4 November 2011 (UTC)

You mean that single person?  MoneygruberTheGoblinChieftain of the Gentleman Tribe(talk contribs) 21:10, 4 November 2011 (UTC)

Yes... I suppose it is one person causing it, isn't it... First time I've seen him communicate through a talk page too. Sssssssssssssssssssssssss For Pony! (^Sssss/_Slithered) 21:11, 4 November 2011 (UTC)

If you mean ultimatex, him sticking Ozumat is getting annoying--Ashbear160 (talk) 21:16, 4 November 2011 (UTC)

Is Ozumat even a sapient being? MoneygruberTheGoblinChieftain of the Gentleman Tribe(talk contribs) 21:20, 4 November 2011 (UTC)

Alright we should do something about this.  MoneygruberTheGoblinChieftain of the Gentleman Tribe(talk contribs) 21:26, 4 November 2011 (UTC)

As far as we know, No... which is why it's really annoying--Ashbear160 (talk) 21:27, 4 November 2011 (UTC)

A warning has been issued. If this persists, please let me know on my talk page, so I'll get that you've got a message banner. I'm not really paying attention to this article at the moment. Sssssssssssssssssssssssss For Pony! (^Sssss/_Slithered) 21:35, 4 November 2011 (UTC)

Alright, thank you.  MoneygruberTheGoblinChieftain of the Gentleman Tribe(talk contribs) 21:36, 4 November 2011 (UTC)

TY--Ashbear160 (talk) 21:38, 4 November 2011 (UTC)

Horde and Alliance aren't working together

They don't work together since the wrath gate incident and in the elemental war there are four factions alliance,horde,neutral faction and old'gods forces and they are battling in the twilight highlands and other zones they don't work anymore garrosh hate's varian and varian hate's him to.

And sorry for Ozumat,Onyxia and the others....

Who agrees to split it in four factions? Ultimatex (talk) 10:43, 4 November 2011 (UTC)

Im sorry, what?  MoneygruberTheGoblinChieftain of the Gentleman Tribe(talk contribs) 21:47, 4 November 2011 (UTC)

When it comes to each other they are not working together, but in this case they stop working against each other to fight the old gods minions, like what we did to the war in outlands article, we also did it to reduce the size of the infobox(it was eating the whole page), it is also already noted in the introduction of this article and the name of the side(defenders of azeroth) that the former is the case--Ashbear160 (talk) 21:51, 4 November 2011 (UTC)

I get what you're saying but in outlands article they worked together then but since the wrath gate incident you know, if we split in we will have more info but i i know what you are saying Ashbear160, i still don't know if we should, well see —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Ultimatex (talk · contr).

They never really worked together in Outland either. But they were united by the Shat'ar or in this case the Red Dragonflight to combat the Greater threat to the world ( or worlds ). MoneygruberTheGoblinChieftain of the Gentleman Tribe(talk contribs) 22:08, 4 November 2011 (UTC)

Depends on certain cases, in hyjal and firelands the horde and alliance "outsourced" the leadership of their armies to the cenarion circle, in vashjir they help each other free themselves from naga slavery with the Earthen ring kinda leading the pack, and twilight highlands is a warfront for the alliance and horde, but when it came to old gods the earthen ring took most of the reins.--Ashbear160 (talk) 22:13, 4 November 2011 (UTC)

How come it is split in four factions in war against the Lich King but we can't split it here Ultimatex (talk) 11:12, 4 November 2011 (UTC)

I'm going to move some stuff around in that article--Ashbear160 (talk) 22:18, 4 November 2011 (UTC)

Only put leaders that actually comanded anything against the old gods, putting just because they are the leaders of subfactions in the factions is not entirely realistic--Ashbear160 (talk) 22:32, 4 November 2011 (UTC)

I don't recall seeing Rexxar.  MoneygruberTheGoblinChieftain of the Gentleman Tribe(talk contribs) 23:40, 4 November 2011 (UTC)