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A New Faction

Isn't there a rumored 3rd faction being introduced with the advent of WoW II?

I think they are based on the moon or some other planet. It is conceivable that pandaerans could be a sort of pet race for a higher order intelligence, or could be one of many 'neutral' races associated with the new faction, whose primary race (ala humans/orcs) could be spiritual in nature, hence above the conflict, but able to participate if necessary for maintaining the balance of neutrality.--;> 21:30, 31 October 2007 (UTC)

I don't know... of the games I've played with 3 factions it always goes pear shaped. the playerbase becomes too spread out and griefers get a hayday. I would rather deal with 1/2 of the jerks on my server then 2/3rds of them. -- Aki no kaze 16:42, 30 November 2007 (UTC)
Considering Blizzard has said they aren't working on WoW 2 anytime soon I would discount any rumors you here. --BlameMe Mucke talkTo 18:56, 30 November 2007 (UTC)
they'll never make WoW 3 because then WoW would completely epty and during the interval they'd go bankrupt so, they're just gonna make expansion packs. Blizz ain't stupid.

Fire Mage Abuse

I am quite annoyed by the abuse that fire mages get....I am a fire mage and getting really annoyed by the magezines, the forums, the PvP mage guides,(which im not PvP...but still...)etc. That all say that if you're a fire mage, then you will basicly fail if you dont have ice block, improved counterspell, and all of the other arcane and ice talent spells.

well, I don't see why the forums talk about pyroblast, or blast wave, or the 10% chance stun in the FIRE talent line, or the 75% chance of fire spells not being interrupted. I think a lot of the forums for some reason were made by Ice mages. I wish more fire mages would talk about things in the forums. --Rabidmoncy 21:14, 11 June 2007 (UTC)

  • So do it. I don't know squat about mages, or I'd help. Add in sections where you think they need to be mentioning the other alternatives. --Azaram 09:05, 12 June 2007 (UTC)
Well my mage is nearly all fire, 2 points in Arcane and 5 so far in Frost, the last two will be improved frost nova. Nothing can out DPS a fire mage, its laughable how hard my mage hits. I rarely use Frost Nova as I can take the one or two hits anything non-elite will give me as it doesn't survive for 3 hits.
Ice Mages == EASY MODE. Its basically the sissy style of play. You have ice block and rely on it because you can't manage your opponents. Its used mostly by PvP and lack luster mages.
Arcane + Fire is great if you want to be a 3 minute mage (PoM to cast an instant Pyro is awesome) and I may covert that way, not sure if I want to give up Dragon's Breath though. SharlinTalk / Did 09:39, 13 June 2007 (UTC)
Now, now, both specs have their advantages and disadvantages. Certainly fire mages have oustanding DPS, and frost mages have much better survivability. But saying that ice mages can't manage their opponents is ignorant and rude. On the contrary, some of the best mages I've ever met are ice mages. In addition, I've had many warriors tell me they much prefer having ice mages in their group for instancing because of their increased survivability and their slowing effects. If they do pull aggro (slightly less likely, given their lower DPS), they're less likely to get hit, as the mob will be walking very slowly towards them, and even if the mob does reach them before the tank gets it back, they can ice block to give them even more time.
I've played both specs, leveling to 60 as fire and respeccing to frost at the talent review. I'll probably switch to hybrid with focus in fire soon to take advantage of my Spellfire gear. Both are very fun to play. One of my favorite things to do when I am bored is to try to solo higher level instances, a feat which was much, much harder as a fire mage. I'll miss that, but I'll also enjoy sending my opponents to firey hell so fast they don't even cover the distance to me. --Mikaka 23:47, 13 June 2007 (UTC)
10/48/3 is the prefered raid spec. Most raid mobs are immnue to slowing effects. As for it being ignorant and rude, the last person I want in my raid some easy mode ice mage who thinks his spec will keep him from getting killed. Too many of them are just that. Instances and Raids do not follow the same rules and they just don't seem to get it. SharlinTalk / Did 11:33, 15 June 2007 (UTC)
That's a little presumptuous. Pzychotix (talk · contr) 11:56, 15 June 2007 (UTC)
What the build or the experience of having played with too many of them? Its an observation from play, some builds are just refused from raids anymore because they can indicate the wrong mindset/playstyle from what is required for raiding SharlinTalk / Did 13:51, 15 June 2007 (UTC)
I'm a 10/48/3 mage, and I also must say that I would not allow a frost mage to go raiding with me. Frost mages simply fall short on DPS...the survivability options are essentially useless, because a good mage should never draw aggro in a raid. If somebody wants to spec frost, that's fine, but they need to stick to PvP. Putts 23:03, 19 June 2007 (UTC)
I'm full frost right now (0/0/61) to get every bit of damage I can out of it, was sitting at 10/0/51 for a while till they added the damage boost to Arctic Winds and with that much in Frost I opted to just take everything from there as I did not think I would get much impact from another tree.
I agree you should never take hits but I'm not usually the one that pulls aggro and as a frost mage I love how long Frost Nova can hold things for someone to take better control of the situation. Add Cold Snap / Imp Blizzard and you get some pretty nice options for CC beyond a single sheep. It's very mana efficient and when I'm soloing allows for burst DPS through FN/FB and Ice Lance to clear things quick.
I'm willing to look at options but haven't been able to cypher out everything in Fire, I see Arcane to Clearcasting and Elemental Precision from Frost easy enough but what exactly is this raiding spec? --Casey37 22:50, 20 June 2007 (UTC)
Playing as fire mage is a lot faster than as ice........people just dont want to admit that fire mages are one of the games strongest force of being........im a something you would call "fire lover" but what would you say?Fire mages rule!!!Qerka 17:04, 1 July 2007 (UTC)
Fire has its strong suits, but so does Frost. As Arcane/Frost I kept up with and/or surpassed all of my guild's Fire mages, and as Fire I enjoy the same domination. Not everyone enjoys the playstyle of Fire, for quite a while I certainly didn't, and Frost does tend towards superior threat reduction, slightly cheaper mana costs, and survivability at the cost of some damage. Calling 10/48/3 the "only" raiding spec is simple naivete - a good mage realizes that all specs have their place in differing situations, and can adapt summarily, something you often see among the mages of Nihilum, Death and Taxes, etc. what with changing specs as to fit the situation. (Also, I don't think I've ever heard of 'abuse' of only Fire mages - in fact, many mages tend to bash on every spec that isn't theirs for some reason, something that leads to much frustration and confusion.) Velrynne 09:16, 21 July 2007 (UTC)
I don't know a ton about mages (one of the few classes I haven't really played), but alot of the abuse given to fire mages is based on what were the high level dungeons before Burning Crusade came out. With dungeons such as UBRS (or LBRS, I forget), Blackwing Lair, and Molten Core the DPS of fire mages was greatly reduced by many fire-resistant mobs. However with the advent of Naxxramas and completely new BC content some of the balance has shifted back toward fire mages. Arcane mages are the ones who get no love as far as I can tell. Someone should stand up for them. --Fandyllic (talk · contr) 1:11 PM PDT 9 July 2006
Ok. so here we go. My first Toon was an arcane specced mage. Still is arcane spec. Simply put, I find them rather mana efficient, as well as having a decent DPS. This however, may have something to do that along with the talents and everything else, I have actually geared my mage toward halfway melee. I am not saying he is god. All I am saying, is i find that i can tear through gnomer, and manage 2-3 even con mobs. Clearcasting state and arcane missiles, with the sheild and everything... i just manaburn them down while i am swinging my sword. throw a few arcane explosions in there, and I have saved the party.
We have a Fire Mage on everyone of our Kara runs...doesn't cause any problems at all. In fact they are only one of two that come close to me on dps. --Mucke->Blameme 03:52, 17 July 2007 (UTC)
Ice Block and Improved Counterspell are really mostly important to PVP mages (along with goodies like Ice Barrier). If you don't PVP, fire mages are superior in straight up DPS (in my experience). However, in arena PVP, nowadays, focus fire is so intense that without Ice Block, you will simply die as a fire mage. Improved Counterspell is nice for locking down opposing players while focus firing someone down. I mean, it may mean nothing to you that the top arena teams have pretty much only frost mages, but if you can do better than they can as fire, show everyone they were wrong. =) --krakatoan 20:22, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

"10/48/3 is the prefered raid spec." <-- why does everyone take the same spec??? a few mages in my guild have this, so i went 12/46/3 1) better amplify/dampen magic for improved healing on melee boss 2) somone else will already have the +15% fire buff on the boss, you dont need several people with improved scorch Sharlotha 11:20, 22 November 2007 (UTC)

Playing as a tank, I can't stand Fire Mages in my group, and I will tell you why. A majority of Fire Mages I have met have them same reaction to mobs in instances no matter if they are Horde or Alliance. Lay on the DPS hard and fast, gain aggro, run away. Now, don't get me wrong, it's not a big deal if they gain aggro, it happens sometimes, its the running away part that gets on my nerves. If you are going to play a DPS class with low survivability to melee damage, then you have to learn that running away from the tank is the wrong idea. In order for him to regain aggro, he needs to hit the mob, and it isn't going to magically stop chasing you when you run away. Stay put, stopping casting spells, and if the tank hasn't figured it out, tell them you have aggro.
In addition, I think it is utterly laughable that You can spec yourself as fire and not be expected to use spells from the ice tree. That's like telling a Paladin "Hey, I know you are Protection specced, but if the healer can't get to you in time, you're just out of luck, since we don't want you healing yourself, you aren't specced for that!" You use everything you have at your disposal. You may not be as good at it as someone specced for it, but every little bit counts. -[[{User: Geoffory|Geoffory]] Newcastle, Steamwheedle Cartel 10:13, 23 November 2007

I think anyone whos says one is better than the other doesnt know what they are talking about. When u are a mage you are given the basic spells from all three classes. The only reason most people think ice is better is because it is easier to get used to because most fire mages don't understand that a tank is always very busy and can't always just jump over and help you. A fire mage does damage faster but has less survivability and ice mages is the exact opposite arcane mages(which by the way i don't see too many but beside the point) are an in between and probably the best spec for someone who is used to playing something like a hunter. I am fire mage and I've never had any complaints about the way I play.

It's a pretty simple concept. Fire is, and will always be, the true DPS tree for mages. Frost does great DPS in the right circumstances, but its most powerful talents are defensive. Arcane has been somewhat of an odd man out since WoW was released, though recently it has found its niche as a viable high end raiding tree, if you have the healthy mana regen required to sustain it.

Frost is seen as the PvP tree because of the survivability it provides the mage. With the constant barrage of dots, cc, debuffs, etc that get flung at you in PvP, ice block/coldsnap/ice barrier seem like a necessity to this mage, but of course, it is a matter of opinion. Fire does better DPS, hands down, but you will most definitely find yourself dieing faster in most PvP situations. It is a matter of play style and opinion which you choose.

Shaman duel tactics/leveling/equipment

I'm kind of an in-betweener for WoW. I started maybe half a year ago, I've tried many things over that time. I've been known to be a kind of a char hopper, because I've used two/three months of that time to play every class and race in the game to try to catch a good option for me, and because when I thought I was settling down on a BE rogue I got him to lvl 22 and got bored (that was my main. I'd never had a char that high of a level before.). Well, now I'm determined I've found my sweet spot, a shaman, and I've FINALLY gotten him to level 23, over my last 'main.' But here's the thing--I'm a full-enhancement shaman, and I've found I suck at dueling and generally 1v1 combat, though I'm good in group combat. I nearly got beat by a druid four levels under me, and my good friend (a shaman who was two levels under me) beat him HARD with tons more HP than I'd had at the end. He seems to do a lot of jumping and spinning, but I still can't figure out what he's doing better than me. Generally I try to get up close, starting off with maybe some totems and a fire shock, then doing earth shocks whenever the cooldown wears off... what am I doing wrong?

On a different note, the same friend that beat the guy harder than me had better armor, and had equal/better stats than me on everything except Spirit. Considering I never use Lightning Bolts (enhancement, remember?), this is not a good thing. I need to get my stamina up, STAT--a warlock, yeah a WARLOCK in my last group had more health than me. I like to do instances a lot, so I've done WC ten or twenty times and have gotten three pieces of the Fang set... but apparantly that's not gonna cut it. What do I have to do to get more stamina-enhancing armor? I'm not going to use Spirit much.

Lastly, I have about 5 hours of play time a day in WoW, and I've found that the best way to use this is by doing instances. However, everyone around me levels ten times quicker than me! Is there a better way to gain experience, or do I just suck at that too?

Thx --Shinsen 15:53, 22 November 2007 (UTC)

I edited your question so it is easier to read and does not utterly obliterate our tables. Thank you --Ithar 00:08, 24 June 2007 (UTC)
Enhancement Shaman suffer in PvP (dueling) and that has been acknowledged by Blizzard but they also said they have no fix. That being said, enhancement Shamans don't see much progression in DPS until they get their Wind Totems and the Windfury weapon buff. The next jump is level 40 where they get dual wield and the Storm Strike talent. Your also stuck in leather armor till 40 as well which doesn't help mitigate melee damage very much.
Most likely your problem in dueling is that you don't stay in melee range. All the running and jumping is simply being done to keep the melee class from hitting them, most likely trying to use frost, fire, or earth, shocks over and over. Don't worry about it. Dueling is for fun.
As for leveling speed, instances suck. The only time you want to do an instance is if you have a bunch of quests in their or just gotta have an item from one. The fastest way to level hands down is to do the quests appropriate for your level and gear. There are lots of free leveling guides on the net, try one. You will probably see that your wasting time in zones either too hard for you. SharlinTalk / Did 09:03, 25 June 2007 (UTC)
About the warlock having more HP than you do, that's not unusual. Warlocks use lifetap and drain life for mana, and tend to stack tons of stamina stuff. As one forum poster's signature says, 'My mana bar is green'. (BTW, everybody please sign your posts with four tildes...) --Azaram 03:17, 14 July 2007 (UTC)
My main is currently a lvl 47 pure enhancement shaman. When I read the start of your post I thought, this is me, becuase I jumped around all the classes and races before I settled on my shammy. First, I wanted to enourage you to stick with it. It is a somewhat hard and complex class to play, but you can really lay out some damage especially in pve. I don't do much PvP but in PvE I can consistently(and have always been able to) bring down mobs 4 levels above me, solo 2-3 mobs at my level, and in groups I am usually have the highest dps. So here's some tips: first make sure you have invested your talents wisely - read up on the best talent builds; conc. on armor that gives strength, stam, intellect, and agility (I try to go for all but prioritize strength); always train all you spells and learn what they do and in which situations u should use each one; and go for the weapon with the highest dps you can. Aim to get dual wield and windfury talents as soon as u can as well as stormstrike. You will be amazed at the difference and the power boost you get - and the tornado effect is so cool! When fighting cloth wearers close them down and melee them as soon as u can, if they are casting spells, wait till they have almost cast it and then hit earth shock - this disrupts the cast and delays the time before they can cast it again. Fire shock is good on rogues becuase it adds a DOT so they cant vanish. Frost shock is good on fleeing oponents so u can get back im melee range. Use ur totems wisely - they are the shammy's strength but also very mana hungry. Watch how ur friend does it. He must be doing something different. OR ask him to watch u and give u some tips. Most of all good luck and stick with it!


Thanks, everyone, but I have the answer. First of all, I don't think I had enough experience in shamans. I've also begun using a spell that I never really used before, but now practically worship... It's a little thing I call PURGE! A guildie of mine reccomended it to me. Now I kill warlocks easy, mages easier, and Paladins like they're grey-levels. I love PvP, and I find it easy now. It was probably just a lack of experience with shamans. Flurry helps a lot too. @ the guy above me, I have no intention to stop playing my Shaman. I've tried every other class except priest, and shaman is by far my favorite.
@ Sharlin--Bad at PvP? I don't think so. I love to kill Allies, and I pretty much dominate other classes now. Instances, noted. Leveling guides... I have the WoW Master Guide (Vol. 2). I'm trying to move on. I just can't find the entrance to the wetlands XD
@ Azaram--Demon Skin. Warlock+Purge+Tremor Totem=Dead Warlock.
@ Ithar--thanks. I still don't know how to sign my stuff XD --Shinsen 15:53, 22 November 2007 (UTC)
To sign, either type four tildes (shift and the key to the left of the number 1) or click on the signature button at the top of the edit window (second from the right, looks like a cursive scribble. Demon Skin isn't what I was talking about... that just restores a small amount of health, it doesn't give extra. I know warlocks with more HP than I have in my bear gear (not in bear form, just the high-stamina gear). --Azaram 04:40, 26 September 2007 (UTC)
Enhancement Shamans being gimped in PvP refers mostly to Arena play, where they have a life expectancy of about 5 seconds. Totems are useless in arena since they get destroyed as soon as you put them down. Battlegrounds aren't as bad since they are generally more chaotic, and chaos is what Shamans thrive on. You don't have a handful of other players standing across from you just waiting to focus-fire you.--tobarstep 14:35, 22 October 2007 (UTC)
The Shaman is about chasing and being chased, depending on how matched you are in melee combat, chasing a warlock but running from a rogue. The other trees are mostly impotent, even though the enhancement tree is relatively boring (only stormstrike, really), though it is certainly better than the bogus bonus lightning bolt. The enhancement tree makes the most sense as melee combat is the weakness of the Shaman, who can't live without it nontheless, so boosting is essential. Who wants to be the guy taking longer to 'wolf' than the other Shaman (shamani?). I tried a healing shaman but was just mobbed (in pvp), though it was funny to survive a team up just healing, with the help of my teammates.
Purge and tremor, nod... mostly just fire with both barrels and keep maneuvering for position (behind, not in front). Run and slow if they are tough. Mostly a straight-forward fighter-class, with totems. (Use the totems wisely, like placing them behind the opponent.)--Jamvaru 21:16, 23 October 2007 (UTC)
  • now that i think on it more, the straight healing shaman might actually be the one to bet on. I'll have to try it again. ;> 19:07, 1 November 2007 (UTC)

Because the Shaman is perhaps the most balanced of all the classes (average armor, no real weapon skills, inefficient healing, expensive totems that are easily destroyed... also, it tries to do all things in battle, melee, tank, area, healing, blasting, etc.) it is not really good at any of them. So, you try to enhance one or the other of the features - healing, melee, blasting - but still aren't very effective. So, my final thought is that the most effective thing a shaman can have is to be able to heal under fire, the '70%' talent for healing without damage causing delay (Healing Focus). Then you can continue blasting and slashing some more. Recommended stat focus is max int and the rest balanced. ;> 22:30, 2 November 2007 (UTC)

im sorry u have 5 hrs of play time a day for 1/2 year and your highest was only 22? im sorry iv played i think... 8 mounths now and im lvl 65 come on man. but good choice of a shaman, love them. but i wana say that an 41/0/20 shaman is a super crit machine. with 6% crit chance from call of thunder and 5% from tidal mastery and 3% from wrath totem(so thats 14% crit with spec only on lightning) and a 100% crit damage bounus and 60% mana off next spell cast on a crit makes for a crit monster. so i think shaman can do stuff good.

04:30, 9 November 2007 Stormrage1313666 (Talk | contribs)

you forgot to add your sig...

check out this page, i just got done with it: Troll-shaman ;> (talk | con | wh) 23:30, 9 November 2007 (UTC)

My sham just hit lvl 42. I'm really enjoying the enhancement tree (2.3 is a gift from God) but I think I wanna roll a warr now. I just can't beat CC. Shamans don't have any Crowd Control, so I get pwnd every time I get stunned or rooted. At lower levels, other characters were dead meat because I was faster than they were. Slow, Gwolf, chase, kill. Now, at 42, everyone's mounted! My mith spurs don't really help that much either.
The reason I wanna roll a warrior, specifically, is because I can still have that up-in-your-face deal I had with my sham, but with more armor, CC, Charge/Intercept, and the ability to kill rogues. The rogue-killing is what I really look forward to.
On the other hand, if you have any tips for making the impact of having no CC lighter, feel free to tell me. I love my shaman, and I don't really wanna leave him.
And btw Stormrage I know that's pitiful but I couldn't find out wtf I wanted to do; Horde or Alliance, and then I had to experiment with each class. xD and it looks like I'm gonna fall into that again
Btw my friend dueled me again. I beat him 2/3 =D

--Shinsen 15:53, 22 November 2007 (UTC)

Which high end weapon enchant?

I'm just wondering which enchants to put on my duel-wielded swords. I have a Vindicator's with a speed of 2.60 and a Felsteel with a speed of 2.20. I'm looking at Mongoose but I don't know which sword would benefit more from it. Any advice? Thanks —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 71.245.104.126 (talkcontr).

They would both benefit the same if mongoose proc'd. The real question is which will it proc more from. Off-hand weapons have half the chance to proc. Even though your off-hand is faster, the main hand will proc more often. So, get the main hand enchanted first.
 ∙ Zurr  TalkContr 10:05, 13 July 2007 (UTC)
Assuming your a warrior I would say put it on your main hand, get strength or some other constant on your off hand. For a rogue its a toss up. The agility is key to your crit rate but you don't need a crit spree in an instance as your tank won't be able to save you. No Hunter should ever buy this or other melee proc enchantment as you never want to be in melee to use it. (not to op, but feral druids cannot benefit from it either) SharlinTalk / Did 10:31, 13 July 2007 (UTC)
I dw mongoose on my lvl 70 rogue. As I understand it mongoose is a proc-per-minute enchant so it should consistently proc off of either weapon no matter the speed of the weapon. I find I have at lesat one if not two buffs running form procs off of my weapons. It never gives me aggro issues and the extra 120-240 agility is a lot of fun. Mucke - Blameme 22:14 pm, 16 July 2007 (UTC)
Had to sign up to add my two cents to this... First of all, ganking happens and you learn to deal with it over time. On our server, Alliance outnumber Horde 4 to 1 and most of them are ten year old kids whose parents use WoW as a form of babysitter. I have a lvl 70 Lock I leave parked next to my alt which takes care of most of my problems, but sometimes it causes the Alliance I reganked and camped to call on his other 70's to return the favor. Oh well, what can you do. I basically went from being the respectful horde to gank on demand. I hate generalizing the Alliance like that, but I look at it as, "You might as well get them before they get you." I don't mind getting ganked, but I hate it when they wait until you have ten percent health to do so, but it is going to happen; thus, deal with it, or move to the Horde side and see how Alliance are not much better.
I think you may have responded to a different topic than you intended, cause I don't really see how ganking and weapon enchants are related in this case. --BlameMe Mucke talkTo 21:23, 1 October 2007 (UTC)

Night Elves' Origin. Help!

Hi all, I'm planning on making a little movie about Night Elves' origin, i know it not clear at all, but i'd like to make out of my own theory. Sorry in advance for any mistake with the english language, i'm not native speaker ;)

I'm on the side of Elune's origin, and after reading a bit through the net i found a lot of "empty" spaces inside the stories... Of course the help i need is from someone who knows a lot about warcraft lore, since i'm only a newbie, still have to read all the books xD, but i'm not sure that they would solve my questions...

First of all, the reason why im on the Elune's Origin side is as it follows: We've got 2 origins, trolls or Elune, so i stick to the one that matches exactly physically with night elves, which is Elune, and not the ones that have some "similar" things, now, How do i "know" Elune's appereance is that of a night elf? by these facts: First I thought of the Statue of Darnassus and said ok, if that's how Elune looked then it's obvious night elves descended from her, then i thought, mmm wait, who says that statue was made from real Elune's looks? maybe night elves just made a statue of their goddess using their own look since they've never seen hers. Then i came up with another thing: Cenarius (that looks half stag, half night elf) was born from the union of Elune + Malorne, Malorne was a Stag, which explains the stag half of Cenarius, the night elf looking half was then from?? :P Elune. OF course i can be wrong, that's why i type it all here, to be corrected if so ^^.

After getting that clear, i tried to read about the list of descendants from Elune + Malorne and it's kind of confusing during some points because... There are no mothers! Who are the mothers of the ppl i'm gonna name next?!!!! if someone knows i'd be really thankfull since i think that's the clue of the night elf origin. Let me explain myself:

From Cenarius, it's said his children were keepers of the grove and dryads, both looking almost like him, half stag-half night elf, but who were their mother?, and the important thing comes here... Malfurion Stormrage is also named to be his son, but he doesn't have 4 stag legs! but 2 night elf legs! Why does he lose much of the stag resemblace? Obviously because of who his mother was. And that i want to know T_T

Another doubt is that Malfurion Stormrage is said to be Cenarius' son, and Illidan Stormrage is said to be Malfurion's twin brother, but never named to be Cenarius son too? So they share mother but not father? and who are they????

Well, i guess no one will find and answer, but thanks for the time anyway :)--DiosaWoW 16:38, 4 August 2007 (UTC)

Cenarious was Elune and Malorne's child, no one knows if Elune made them or if they were trolls, no one knows who was the mate of Cenarius, and Malfurion was his student not son.--SWM2448 19:08, 5 August 2007 (UTC)

My theroy (One made of my own love of the lore) is that they where a spawn of the Old Gods (Who I am opsessed with) But not the Kaldorie. I mean a More feral version. One that Looked to Zanndalar Trolls as other trolls. After the olgd gods defeat they migrated to a massive fount of magic power. The Well of Eternity. B eing used to basking in the presence of an Old God this new magic fount proably was 100X more powerful. Eventualy over the Appc. 10,000 years till the War of the ancients they Evolved into their Now known state. -Agamemmnon September 18, 2007


Actually if you read in the Warcraft books or read in the game guides, they tell you. Being a big fan of warcraft lore, Im just sharing my information. Actually Malorne(which I believe is the name of the white stag, an old God) is Cenarius' dad. Ysera, the Green Dragon Aspect, and the creator of the Emerald dream, is Cenarius' mother. Elune had nothing to do with Cenarius' creation. Even though Cenarius is half stag, half night elf, Ysera is an aspect and can take any form she likes. This is also why Cenarius is basicly the founder of the druidic ways. Ysera created the Emerald Dream, and taught Cenarius her ways. Cenarius was the father of others such as dryads, but Malfurion and Illidan were both sons of Night Elves, not Cenarius. Elune was also an Old God, who like Cenarius both at some point in time helped the NIght Elves out. Possibly in previous wars that are not stated, but they are both simbols for what the NIght Elves have become. THere are 100s of different Gods out there. HOwever Elune was a true God that I guess faded away or dissapeared, however Cenarius was just a half God. Also, both Malfurion and Illidan and Tyrande Whisperwind were all students of Cenarius, just they all chose different paths. Malfurion chose the druidic path of Cenarius, Tyrande chose Elune, and Illidan chose the greed of Power. - Travinator


Actually, Trav, there's a number of lore-related problems with that post. Ysera, IIRC, is eternally sleeping and now always resides in the Dream, in spirit form. No mating for her. The Aspects did not create the Emerald Dream, the Titans did, and they put the Green Aspect in charge of it. Malorne was not an Old God, there were only 5 Old Gods, at least two of whom were killed, and a third is in Silithis and a fourth in Northrend. Elune was not an Old God, but a True God, worshipped by the Tauren and Night Elves in different forms. She may or may not be a physical entity. Not hundreds of Gods, I dunno where you came up with that...

Also, Agamemmnon, there is evidence that the Old Gods are still active. And powerful beings such as the Gods wouldn't evolve into incredibly inferior beings such as Night Elves--Revner 19:03, 21 November 2007 (UTC)

# Factions

World of Warcraft is horrible because it ruins the lore of the series. Most people don't even pay attention when there IS lore mentioned in the game. Most people are ignorant of the in-game histories.

Why is it that there are only two playable factions: Alliance & Horde? Surely it would make sense to add Independent, Scourge, and Burning Legion factions as well to cover all other races.

Why are the two playable factions enemies? I thought they were allies?

Why is the Alliance always portrayed as "good guys" (Lawful Good) and the Horde as "bad guys" (Chaotic Evil)?

Why isn't there a Common tongue for the two factions to communicate?

For these reasons, I consider the Warcraft RPG to be superior to the video game in every way. --Zenosaga 14:50, 12 August 2007 (UTC)

You, sir, are stating the obvious. It's like saying the novel version of Jurassic Park was better than the movie version. Well of course the tabletop Warcraft RPG is better! It has far, far more detail than they could put into the video games, for one thing. For another thing, you have to realize that as a video game for the masses, there's bound to be limitations and constrictions.
You ask why there's only two playable factions. Simple. The first reason that comes to mind is "marketability". If they'd had everything -- and I mean everything -- open from the get-go, they couldn't continue to make expansion packs and whatnot for people to buy and/or they'd have to charge far, far more a month for their game play service as the game would be that much bigger. Further, there really can't be any truly "neutral" factions to play because in any good game, there's always two or more opposing forces. Mario vs. Koopa... GDI vs. Nod... The Final Fantasy heroes vs. some randomly generated bad guy... It's all symmetry. If you threw neutral factions into the works, they couldn't really be neutral unless they were all entirely marketeers, such as the Steamwheedle Cartel or something. How interesting would it be to play as the Tuskarr up in Northrend, fishing and whaling and doing what they do all day? Or running around as a gnoll just trying to survive and claim food or land for yourself? Not terribly interesting, if you ask me, and certainly not worth $59.99 per expansion.
You ask why the two playable factions are enemies. They're not. Nowhere is it stated that the Alliance and the Horde are at war with one-another. As has been stated time and time again, the two major factions of Azeroth are simply in a state of "uneasy peace" with each other. Little quarrels for land and resources break out in various places that border specific areas, sure... But for the most part, these are isolated incidents. You'll notice the Alliance isn't asking you to go into Warsong Gulch... No, the folks of the Silverwing Sentinels have come into the cities asking for outside assistance. Sure, the leaders could just as easily have pushed them outside their cities...but they're obligated to let them ask for help as they're allied. No...there is no true "faction vs. faction all-out war" going on... What happens between guilds of players and random players is strictly non-canonical, regardless of server type. Unless Warcraft IV comes out and officially states that Illidan, Arthas, and the leaders of the various towns are dead...then they aren't.
Tying into this, you claim that the game is ruining the lore. Well, keep something in mind... In World of Warcraft...there is no real lore in the making. I know this may be hard to wrap your head around, but what happens in WoW kind of stays in WoW unless otherwise stated by Blizzard.
You ask why the Alliance are portrayed as "the good guys" and the Horde portrayed as "the bad guys". Once again, this is rubbish. It's all in the eye of the beholder, really. Sure, a couple of factions of the Horde are a little on the idiotic or psychotic side in our eyes, but as I said... That's in our eyes. Imagine, if you will, if you suddenly lost your mind and body to a powerful entity, fought to gain your mental freedom, gained it, found your emotions had been all but dulled, then tried to return to your point of origin only to be shunned and burned with fire. There you have the Forsaken's point of view. They're still who they were in life... Just...not quite "as full of life," if you'll pardon the unintentional pun. As such, they seek vengeance against those who've done them wrong. Pretty much the same story with the sin'dorei... The orcs, though? The trolls? The tauren? They're all just trying to get by... To live their lives. They want nothing more than peaceful days. It just hasn't come to pass yet...
You ask why there's no common "Common" language. This...I can't explain. I don't know why, all of a sudden, orcs and the Forsaken can't talk with humans or sin'dorei can't talk with quel'dorei. If, according to Blizzard's own lore, "almost all intelligent races speak Common", then by all rhyme and reason, that should be what's going on! My only guess as to why this is as such is because Blizzard didn't want things like spies happening, or inter-faction communication gumming up the works. I believe there was a testing of giving the Forsaken the ability to speak Common (instead of Gutterspeak), but I also recall hearing from someone who was there that some seriously bad mojo happened. Maybe it was because only the Forsaken could speak Common? Maybe not. I don't know, I wasn't there. The point is, conventional inter-faction communication was apparently enough of a threat to the serenity of the game that Blizzard decided against it in the end.
Anyway, that's all I've got. Hopefully, this answers your questions, or even brings up further questions I or someone else can answer. ~ Doc Lithius (U)(T)(C) 15:34, 12 August 2007 (UTC)
The wall of text critted you for 100.000k wiki damage. --Ose 22:28, 8 September 2007 (UTC)
hahahah... !

the reason there are 2 forms of common, horde and alliance, is that if it were possible to understand each other, the battleground communications channel would be too confusing to understand. But, even if we could clearly see when an opposing player is speaking, rather than our teammates, the spam would be outrageous, as each side tried to out flame the other... it is bad enough to have someone yell 'Blaargh!'... imagine if we could cuss each other out coherently.

The thing about WoW, is that it is different from a PnP RPG. It is a computer game. As such, with 1000's per server, you have to consider the best way to get them to play nice together and have the most fun. I believe the idea of a neutral Faction is fabulous. But, it will have to wait. Maybe for WoW II? ;> (talk | con | wh) 23:31, 8 November 2007 (UTC)
Counter to the first point of the original post: so what? It's a fun game. I don't see the lore screwed up too much.
Counter to the second: there ARE other factions. They just aren't playable. C'mon, what would the classes be for the Scourge? Goblins would be a really cool idea, but that'd pose a problem in PvP.
Counter to the third: do you see in-game sequences where Thrall sends troops to mount asssaults on Alliance towns? Or the other way around? No. It's the player's decision, and the reason they're fighting is because of territory disputes. Naturally, the Alliance wants more land, because humans are expansive (which led to the fall of the Arathi). The Horde (excluding orcs) were all here at first, too--but with the arrival of our green-skinned friends the Alliance was able to justify it from 'encroachment' to 'holding off invasions.'
Counter to the fourth: where does it show that in WoW? Have you PLAYED the damn game? If you were playing Alliance, of course you're gonna find the 10-year-olds in the chat channels talking about how 'evil' Horde are. Horde are pwn! I've seen no bloody massacres the Horde has commited that the Alliance didn't make beforehand.
Counter to the fifth and final: if you're relating it to the RPG or WC RTS, you may notice that the important figures talk but the grunts/footmen/whatever don't. We, in WoW, are the grunts/footmen/whatever. Who knows? Thrall probably picked the human Common up frm his childhood. Demons are all-knowing, so they'd know any language. Night elves...are wierd. They have this nture thing going on; who knows what they know?
If you hate the game so much you shouldn't have bought it. If you didn't buy it, which I'm betting you didn't, you shouldn't be posting why a tabletop RPG is better. --—The preceding unsigned comment was added by Shinsen (talkcontr). 09:13, 22 November 2007

How do i make people trust me site?

Hey there, I am not trying to advertise or something. Recenlty i just created a website for wow players, but seems to me people always think I am a gold spammer/keylogger. And refuse to go to my site. How can i convince people my site is safe? It is a websie that i created jsut for wow players.


-- Egelon 18:07, 28 August 2007 (UTC)

Sometimes it just takes time to build up a good reputation. Sometimes word of mouth from others is real helpful. The one thing you really need to think about before you open Yet Another Warcraft Site(tm) is do you offer something that all the other sites don't offer. If the information on your site can be found in 10 other sites that are much more popular, you're not going to get much traffic. If you open up a forum and just say its for WoW players, why should they go there when there's already plenty of other forums out there? I'm not trying to discourage you. When you're dealing with an established game with a huge fanbase that already has a ton of popular sites, you really need to have something different when you open a new site. - ClydeJr - talk - contrib 21:36, 28 August 2007 (UTC)
One way to make people think you are not a gold spammer is to not allow gold selling ads on your site. Also, if you don't have any unique or well presented information or features, your site may just not get traffic because there is no motivation for people to visit. Creating a site "just for WoW player" really isn't enough, unfortunately. --Fandyllic (talk · contr) 12:01 PM PDT 8 Sep 2007
Google, Google, Google. If you want to get some decent traffic, you should optimize your site for a specific niche in the big search engines and don't try to advertise for it in game. In-game advertising for just about any website will get you ignored by most players faster than "/y you all suck!". Do a web search for 'Google SEO' (search engine optimization), pick a niche that will force you to specialize your content, and follow all of the recommendations you can find in Google's FAQ's. If you're trying to compete for top listing with a specific keyword set, pick something specific and less traveled. Targeting your brand new site for a 'World of Warcraft' search results is not going to get you in the top 10,000 hits, let alone the top 10. Off the top of my head, dynamic (web 2.0 type) content, keyword meta tags that actually reflect the meaningful content of your site, and following ALL of Google's accessibility coding standards (no frames, robots.txt, streamlined content management system) are the three biggest factors in determining your listing order for targetted keyword searches. Read as much as you can about legit SEO and update/code to your pages daily. - Pjcareyiii 16:11, 27 November 2007 (GMT)

im a confused warlock

im a lvl 17 blood elf warlock im almost 18 and ill soon beable to use ritual of summoning, warlock spells cost alot and summon felsteed from wat i hear is 90s to 1g. i get tht this is a lot cheaper then most mounts but they would have to allow mail between horde and allince if i was gonna get tht money(i have rich allince char.) i was wondering how much i should charge for summoning people??


-- beaghking45 16:11, 7 October 2007 (UTC)beaghking45

A trick to give money from your alliance character to your horde charcter or vice versa is to get some grey item you get from a drop i na low level area and put it on a nuetral auction house, either in gadgetzen or botty bay, for a reiculous amount of mone ythat no one woudl ever pay and have you horde/alliance character buy it. Voila! You give money from your alliance character to your horde character! Gathorlo 17:59, 7 October 2007 (UTC)

First, you can transfer money from one faction to the other in this fashion. The AH keeps a cut of the sale though so you lose a % of whatever gold you are transferring. Second, and I don't mean this to flame anyone, but to the previous person who replied, use firefox or something with spell chscking built in. I had a hard time reading your reply because the spelling is that bad. Again, not wanting to bad mouth you at all, just asking for you to help the rest of us out. --BlameMe Mucke talkTo 21:35, 7 October 2007 (UTC)
About the above suggestion... That's extremely incorrect. It's impossible for you to sell yourself anything through any auction house. You can't, for example, have your dwarf hunter sell his Fishing Pole for 20g and then have your troll mage try and buy it. It simply won't show up on the troll's auction house search. On the other hand, if the dwarf and the troll are on two completely seperate accounts, then yes. The trick will work. ~ Doc Lithius [U|T|C] 09:48, 8 October 2007 (UTC)
I haven't ever actually tried to buy good from one of my alts, but I can verify that their stuff *does* show up in AH searches, so I'm pretty sure you are wrong here. Now, I'm going to try to buy something just to prove it can be done and will report back tomorrow.mes 18:47, 31 October 2007 (UTC)

Maybe it has been changed but when I was a lower level and tryign to find out what I wanted to play as, this is what I did. It always worked for me. Gathorlo 16:02, 8 October 2007 (UTC) PS Muck you need to chill out. My spellign wasn't that bad, and even then it wasn't wrong spelling, just mixing up of letters withiun the word, cuz I type really fast.


To Doc, the Neutral AH thing does work. I have a Gnome parked in Booty Bay. I also have an Undead Rogue Leatherworker that I was trying to get some of the Alliance only patterns for. I ran around and bought them from venders with the gnome and placed them on the AH in Booty Bay. Then logged out, switched to my rogue and bought them. Same account. It will show-up on your AH search. Just like if I take my Rogue to the AH in Org and put an item up, then search for the same item, it will come up, it just notes it as your auction. This wasn't a random idea or something I have heard about, it is something I have done and do on a regular basis.
To Gathorlo, I am sorry you took offense to my comment on your spelling. But yes, it was that bad and difficult to read. This isn't an attack on you, though you seem to have taken it that way, its merely me asking for you to be more considerate of others when you post by making sure your post is readable. --BlameMe Mucke talkTo 17:49, 8 October 2007 (UTC)
I tried over the summer to transfer an item this way, the item did show up, but I wasn't able to buy it because of the "same account" limitation.
Also, 1 gold is about what you will be paying for skills in general at level 40, so is not a big deal to afford if you are using professions well, or just using whatever method you use ot get gold for regular skills.Minionman 23:23, 8 October 2007 (UTC)
Okay, I was half wrong. You can see your own auctions. (Or rather your alt's auctions.) However, if you try to bid on one or buy one out, you get the error message of "You cannot bid on your own auctions." It's exactly the same as trying to have one person's alts sign your guild charter. "That person has already signed your charter." How do I know? I just tried to by my alt's Strong Fishing Pole for 20g and it said exactly what I quoted. Don't you make me take a video of it. =P ~ Doc Lithius [U|T|C] 00:48, 9 October 2007 (UTC)
Odd, that must be really new. Probably another attempt to foil gold sellers that screws the rest of us.--BlameMe Mucke talkTo 05:59, 9 October 2007 (UTC)
Not new at all. Been that way since I started playing in January.--tobarstep 15:15, 22 October 2007 (UTC)

There is an easy way around this. go find a friend u trust, give him the money, have him buy it off the nuetral AH. Sharlotha 11:47, 22 November 2007 (UTC)

Is there a prefered grouping for Shadow Labyrinth

Now, before I get pelted with beer cans like Flounder at the beginning of Animal House and have to endure shouts of "noob" I beg forgiveness before submitting the following for discussion.

Is there a prefered grouping for Shadow Labyrinth? The reason I ask is sometimes I run the instance and it's a complete utter mess, especially at Blackheart the Inciter, and other times it's a cakewalk. Normally, I'd chalk it up to bad groups, but I've gotten through the instance with the most dysfunctional PUGs you can imagine, while other solid groups I've run other instances with get repeatedly wiped. The bosses are strangely tough as well. I've never once cleared Blackheart and that silly orc second boss and not then cleared Murmur. It's like the second or third boss is tougher than the final one.

As far as the groups are concerned, gear, experience and levels are about the same. Is it luck? Are there some class mixes that work better than others? Should I just resign myself to the notion that my priest will never get Karazhan keyed and I should just go play Hello Kitty Island Adventure?

I mock myself in jest. I am truly interested in knowing what has worked consistently well with other groups in the past. I've read the page and the strategy there, but I was hoping for more, personal recollections, especially around group composition.

Dirkbronze 20:27, 15 October 2007 (UTC)

Here's a recent set of group members I ran Shadow Labyrinth with:
  • Holy Priest
  • Affliction Lock
  • Tankadin
  • Shadow Priest
  • Fire Mage
Result? Couldn't get past Blackheart.
Tonight:
  • Feral Druid
  • Holy Priest
  • Fire Mage
  • Hunter
  • DPS Pally
Result? Cleared without a wipe. Priest was the same, mage was the same, maybe one more metal wearer than clothie (counting the druid tank as a metal wearer with the leather*300%). So, is it worth discussion to limit the number of clothies that group into SL?
Syl198 05:34, 16 October 2007 (UTC)
Blackheart is a bitch, you really need to burn cooldowns quickly otherwise he will use them and some of them are deadly to cloth users. The longer you fight the 2nd and 3rd bosses the harder it is so its a DPS race. For the 3rd boss it comes down to having a good tank who can walk him at the right pace.
The overall instance needs two forms of CC to be smooth as pulling from Blackheart's room is a bitch with only one true CC. SharlinTalk / Did


It's all about strat. The second and third bosses are dps races. If your dps is low, then the fight will last too long and you won't get him down.
The second boss just burn all your CDs at the beginning, tank him against the door if possible as his knock-back is wicked. Ranged stay as close as possible as he will charge you if you stay too far out. Also everyone needs to be ready with pots and bandages right after he incites chaos.
The third boss you have to kite, first back down the hall you came in, then the other way after the first teleport, go this way twice. If it takes more than 2 teleports to kill him then chance are you don't have enough dps. I've been through here successfully with all types of groups, both before and after they nerfed the dungeon. 2 CC is nice, but we've done it plenty with just a sap. --BlameMe Mucke talkTo 14:08, 16 October 2007 (UTC)
I disagree with Mucke. I always find it better for the entire group to walk around the 3rd boss by hugging the wall (assuming all 70s). Then kill the nuisance skeleton that spawns in the back before pulling the boss towards the party that is now behind the boss. Walk him backwards North 1st and reverse direction after each teleport. North, South, North, South etc. Why do it this way? A: Gives you more time before you end up screwed. North 1st tends to group the adds together. South 1st spreads them out. If the adds are spread out, you have limited options on where to kite the boss to. South first = 2 teleports, then you are screwed on 3rd teleport. North first = 4 teleports then you are screwed. Note: this only matters if your party is having problems. If you can kill the boss after 1 teleport, do wherever you want with him... he's your bitch. --Brunpal 16:20, 25 October 2007 (UTC)
I appreciate the information, but was more wondering about successful party composition, unless composition isn't as important as just having nicely high DPS. Thanks for the insight though :D
Dirkbronze 02:07, 17 October 2007 (UTC)
I have not noticed much influence of group composition at the bosses. However you do have to adapt the strategies to what you have: ie kite third boss if you lack a bit of firepower. If you have great DPS, the best idea is to not move the boss, have someone on adds and pile up the damage. Best run I have add was killing the boss before second teleport. I'll confirm that you have to use all of your cooldwon abilities on Blackheart or he will use them for you. Some (such as PoM+Pyro) can be quite destructive when used against yourselves. Murmur is a walk in the park in comparison, unless you're on Heroic. It then requires great timing from the whole team. Third boss is harder even on heroic IMO though.
Malusz 17:47, 17 October 2007 (UTC)
There is also the idea he will only use abilities on your action bars. SharlinTalk / Did 20:18, 17 October 2007 (UTC)
Yeah, it's definately more the people and the DPS than the particular group composition. I've failed repeatedly at Murmur with a damn good group that went through the rest of the dungeon so fast that we got the third boss just as he came down from his first rain of fire... and went through slowly but successfully with a party that had not one, but two huntards who decided that it should be a rep run and would repeatedly aggroed an entire room at once then feign-death next to the healer. There's some luck involved, but on Murmur it's more timing than anything else. Run far enough out of the sonic boom range to not get hit but stay close enough that you can get back in time to prevent the instant-deathrays... don't get hung up on the pig roasting in front of the tent when trying to get inside to avoid the fall damage from the touch... Other than that, it's 'You run your bear tank in, you run your bear tank out, you run your bear tank in and asplodey all about... --Azaram 02:41, 21 October 2007 (UTC)
The third boss is really a tank fight more than anything, you can do him with lacking dps. Even with good dps, a newbish tank can ruin the whole thing by kiting the boss too fast and too hard. As for killing him there, i don't see that as very possible. they have ~3k health in non-heroic, enough to be alive for a while against most classes, and by the third summon, there are quite a few of them. Plus he does his rain of fire on that spot. Any of them get close enough and everyone gets hit for ~1300, and gives him a pretty good heal. so basically, just kite him away from his voidwalker buddies, and dps him down as you go. just be sure the tank doesn't run off with him where the dps can't hit him anymore, keeping him a little out of range of the closest voidwalker is a good idea, backing up slowly when you need to. As for the second boss, there is one strat you can use even if you lack dps, and it works pretty well. I've done this with several groups, but a frost mage/hunter/warlock or anyone else with a pet is a must. First, you have to clear the first room, as you'll be pulling him here. Pull him down to the first room, and start fighting, the low ceilings and close walls will keep the knockbacks from being too bad, and the great part of this plan comes to fruition. Since you are fighting right next to the instance door, then even if you die, you can come run back in in almost no time, with half your mana. Now this may seem a little crazy, but all you need is one person to stay alive through it with soulstone or ankh, preferably the healer, as the tank may die. though, usually it's the dps that get done in by everyone else.Longbow6625 10:07, 31 October 2007 (UTC)
Agreed. Our group started like this:
  • Resto Druid (strong healer)
  • Resto Druid (weaker healer, dps all except Murmur)
  • Frost Mage
  • Shadow Priest (replaced by another frost mage midway)
  • Warrior tank
Not an ideal group setting, but it worked all except in one case. You need to know how kill Vorpil, and our strategy was south-south-north tactic. Our tank was making things harder for himself and the rest of the party, and he was a guildmate. Once we got past him, it was smooth sailing.
Despite needing DPS in this instance, a strong tank and a mage is still a must-have in this instance, just to get past trash mobs. I've done it several time without one, and had problems defeating the first or second boss.--slxception (me/speak) 12:29, 11 November 2007 (UTC)

Arena Addon

Alright I have been talking with my 5v5 team and was wondering if there was any way that an addon could be made to track certain teams in arenas.

Such as you enter your own info into a data base, and when you highlight over one of the opposing team a little info thing in the window shows up, sorta like Proximo. Exept this one shows, Rating of their Team. HP, Resiliance for each one of them as well. All this info would have to be manually updated tho, unless you could find some way to leach it from the armory. This would be for only higher end arena teams, where you face the same 20-30 teams every time.

Is something like this possible? I wish I knew .lua -- Fusk 16:18, 26 October 2007 (UTC)

I would say it's possible, but I've got no idea how to go about it. There's a program for bear tanks called Rawr that scrapes the Armory for information on your character and items, so it's probably possible to get the info... I'm not any kind of a coder, though, so I wouldn't even know how to go about starting... --Azaram 09:47, 26 November 2007 (UTC)

Reputation with Stormwind

Notice: This question deals with emulated servers, not the real game servers.

Im Currently Hated by Stormwind, as a result of me killing loads of NPC's there. Any idea how i can change that? -- KingStoph 15:33, 29 October 2007 (UTC)

You fail. On a side note, there are some quests that increase your reputation with Alliance. I think maybe AV quests typically give IF rep first then when you're full exalted it spills over. --Pcj (TC) 15:36, 29 October 2007 (UTC)
Everytime you do a quest with one of your core factions you get rep for the other factions as well. I believe its 1/4 of the total rep to the other factions. So if you do a quest that raises faction with dwarves by 400 then humans, NEs, gnomes, and Draenai all go up by 100. I could be off on the numbers but its something like that. The only exception that I know of is the cloth turn-ins for rep. --BlameMe Mucke talkTo 18:33, 29 October 2007 (UTC)
How can you guys even discuss about this? *rolleyes* It's impossible to lose faction, let alone kill members of any subfaction of your side. IconSmall Druidŋɑϑ 10:27, 31 October 2007 (UTC)
Press U. Click on a faction, and tick "At War"... Easy --KingStoph 23:23, 31 October 2007 (UTC)
Well...that doesn't work with Alliance/Horde...the option is grayed out... --Pcj (TC) 00:26, 1 November 2007 (UTC)
You cannot go to war with your own side, only with neutral factions, and even then you can only go to war with some of those. TeжubԎ Ҩ Ѡ 00:30, 1 November 2007 (UTC)
Ladies and gentlemen? He's playing on an emulated server. How do I know this? Because I've done exactly this thing myself on those types of servers. While amusing, if you start losing reputation with your own faction, it rather defeats the purpose of playing one side or the other...
In any case, the question has been answered. Unless you're Hated by all five of "your" factions, you can simply do quests for another faction until you gain neutrality or better with Stormwind City. This, of course, providing your server's emulated software is functioning properly and allows for gaining reputation and "spill-over" reputation to begin with.
Now come join us on the non-emulated servers some time!  :3 ~ Doc Lithius [U|T|C] 13:53, 5 November 2007 (UTC)
Aren't emulated servers against wow policy and in a way stealing from Blizzard? If so, shouldn't wowwiki as a whole do everything possible to not support them? --BlameMe Mucke talkTo 18:07, 5 November 2007 (UTC)
It indeed does not support them. So, I suggest to stop talking about this topic :P ~ IconSmall Druidŋɑϑ 07:48, 6 November 2007 (UTC)
Not to beat a dead horse, but just because you don't support something doesn't mean you can't answer a legitimate question about it. It's still ever-so-slightly on-topic, afterall. That's just my two cents, mind you.  ;P ~ Doc Lithius [U|T|C] 20:59, 8 November 2007 (UTC)

Odd healing problem

This problem often happens when switching targets for healing; sometimes when I switch targets by clicking on the person to heal, than right away hit the healing spell, the heal does not go through. I'm not sure if this is simply lag, or something else having to do with healing (I haven't seen this problem when using skills on enemies, but that may be me missing it.). (If the problem isn't described well enough, I'll give examples.) It is annoying because I often see it in tough battles when I'm using big, more costly heal spells on a lower health character, where it really hurts to loose that heal. Minionman 03:35, 4 November 2007 (UTC)

Due to Blizzard not wanting any changes made to the UI while combat is in progress you may find that you aren't always healing who you think you are. I'm not sure if this is your problem or not. If someone is added or removed from your group while you are in combat your unit frames won't always update properly. This can result in a number of errors including missing party/raid members or a messed up party/raid that shows people in the wrong places. If you suspect something like this one way to fix it is to type /console reloadui. This will reload your interface and generally fixes any problems with it. --BlameMe Mucke talkTo 17:43, 4 November 2007 (UTC)
I had the reloadui macro wrong in the post above, should be correct now. --BlameMe Mucke talkTo 02:56, 6 November 2007 (UTC)

Fish While Sitting/Laying

What?! Okay, folks, there's some serious egg on my face here... I recently put up a topic on the official discussion forums about fishing while sitting or laying only to find out that some time between 2.2.0 and 2.2.3 did they actually add that feature in! My question is...which patch added this ability and why isn't it marked here at the WoWWiki? I feel so stupid now... ~ Doc Lithius [U|T|C] 17:16, 10 November 2007 (UTC)

Wait, can you actually fish while siting or sleeping? Or is it that you auto-stand when you try to do it? --Gengar orange 22x22 Fandyllic (talk · contr) 12:47 PM PST 14 Nov 2007
patch 2.3 - you now automaticly stand when u use any abilitys that u need to for. Sharlotha 11:58, 22 November 2007 (UTC)
Just for laughs I tried it last night. You are able to cast and catch fish while sitting down. Got distracted by someone asking questions ("| HOW I MINE FOR FISH??") then invited to tank heroic Mechanar, so I forgot to try laying down... --Azaram 09:54, 26 November 2007 (UTC)
^-- and it didn't autostand. (fixed link, too) --Azaram 04:07, 28 November 2007 (UTC)

why rogues for Blood Elfs?

BE's are mana addicts, that much is easy enough for me to get from the lore... which explains the mage, priest, pally, hunter and warlock as they all use mana, however the rouge does not. Why was the rogue included in the BE class lineup over another mana user? -- Aki no kaze 16:53, 12 November 2007 (UTC)

The classes weren't picked just because "they are mana users", they ate picked based on the background of the race in question, and likely also to keep some class/race amount balance. For the blood elf classes:
Mages: In the warcraft universe, many Quel'thalas elves had been magic users for thousands of years before current WoW time, and it is an important part of the culture. With blood elves now as the magical addicts, magic and mages become even more important.
Warlocks: In the WoW storyline, blood elves overall have become more desperate, angry, and power hungry, which combined with magical abilities means some of them will turn to using demon oriented powers.
Priests: Again, in Quel'thalas elf back story, many of them were priests, so this class has stuck around. In addition, priests have several skills dealing with mana manipulation, which fit with blood elves, and it keeps priests a bit more balanced between races (Alliance has 4 priest races, horde has 3)
Paladin: This was added to give paladins to horde, and some back story was added that bl;ood elves took holy powers from a captured creature to allow them to have paladins.
Hunters, Rogues, Warriors: These three all have fit with blood elf back story, as the Quel'thalas elves for a long time before world of warcraft used a lot of archers with hit and run style fighting (hunters, rogues), as well as some elves being swordsmen (warriors), and all the other races having warriors as a possibility. To keep class balance without giving another class to an alliance race means just two of those three to the blood elves, and hunters and rogues were picked for the final game (I'm guessing because they did fit better with background of what Quel'thalas elves were known for than warriors would have.)
Shamans, Druids: Quel'thalas elf back story does not have anything resembling druids or shamans, and currently in game blood elves overall tend to look down on sources of power not based on raw magic, so there aren't any reasons that lots of blood elves would become druids or shamans.
Hopefully this answers your question.Minionman 17:45, 12 November 2007 (UTC)
Lore-wise, all races have rogues, excluding Tauren and Draenei, which are, uh, too large, and have no historical background for assassins.
You could argue that Blood Elf rogues actually use mana instead of energy (mana tap implies this), or something in between (mana being a mental/arcane, and energy being a physical concentration) but for the game's purposes this is just energy ingame. ~ IconSmall Druidŋɑϑ 17:54, 12 November 2007 (UTC)

Lots of Gold... Enought to EAT... where do i get it?

Whats the Best profesion to get lots of Gold, but still be usefull? Like Leather work would be useless if i can use Plate and what not. So whats the best to learn? getting most cash Via Trade and AH?--KingStoph 23:23, 12 November 2007 (UTC)

I would say in my opinion, that Mining and Skinning would be the best bang for your buck. There are 3 professions that use a ton of ore and all professions except alchemy use leather at some point. Also skinning doesn't require any kind of tracking, so you can leave your mineral tracking on all the time and never miss a node. --BlameMe Mucke talkTo 01:33, 13 November 2007 (UTC)
Jewelcrafting and Mining if you have BC practically mints money. Once you get to the level where you can build either a Thick Bronze Necklace or a Brilliant Necklace and you can expect 1g or 4g (respectively) at the AH depending on server and timing (weekends tend to be the best time to sell) -- Aki no kaze 15:07, 13 November 2007 (UTC)
echo, mining and skinning... then you decide which you will keep later on. Either will be good. Choose which will be more useful to you. Check prices of materials on your server. Whichever is costlier, fill the demand. ;> (talk | con | wh) 19:44, 13 November 2007 (UTC)
The way the OP worded the question makes me think he/she wants a combination that they can use to equip their char, two gathering professions, while more profitable, would not fit that requirement. -- Aki no kaze 20:05, 13 November 2007 (UTC)
Taking dual-gathering and buying the few crafted items you want from those crafts while leveling is much MUCH more useful. The effort and cost required for leveling a craft really only pays off at 70. TeжubԎ Ҩ Ѡ 00:05, 14 November 2007 (UTC)
I have to put in a pitch for Mining and Herbalism or just straight Alchemy and Herbalism. In my experience, Skinning isn't that profitable, but maybe I'm just not focusing on it enough. Herbs always seem to be profitable to sell and the potions from Alchemy never cease to sell. Of course, competition in the Alchemy space has gone up alot. Also, working the AH regardless of your professions is also a good way to make $. I bought my epic flying mount only a few weeks after my first character got to level 70 and I have all the different professions among my main characters (2 level 64s and 3 level 70s), so I know a little bit about all of them. My only weakness profession-wise has been Blacksmithing which took me forever to get to 300, since I'm cheap and don't want to pay for ingredients.
I can already afford my second epic flying mount (the training is the real expense at 5000Gold), but I may wait a bit, because I really need to re-spec a few chars and that's expensive also. --Gengar orange 22x22 Fandyllic (talk · contr) 5:48 PM PST 13 Nov 2007
If you have a level 70, many of the daily quests are a great source of cash. They do have certain base requirements. The cooking daily quest requires 375 cooking, but normally takes less than 10 minutes to complete for 7g. The Skettis daily quests require a flying mount, but the bombing run is an easy 11g. Once you complete the initial requirements for the Ogri'la daily quests, they're good money. The bombing run, emanations, and ray wrangling quests are all quick and reward 11g each. The demon banishing quest takes a little longer and also rewards 11g. If you're still looking for rep/gear, the daily dungeon quests give nice cash plus a [Ethereum Prison Key] or [Badge of Justice]s. Once you get an epic mount, you can start work on the Netherwing daily quests in Shadowmoon Valley for rep and cash. - ClydeJr - talk - contrib 21:17, 26 November 2007 (UTC)
Daily Cooking Quest doesn't take 375 cooking, I believe it takes 300 and you have to have teh highest rank of cooking trained, or something like that. I actually used the rewards of fish from teh cooking daily to level from 360 to 375. --BlameMe Mucke talkTo 23:40, 26 November 2007 (UTC)

looking for a new Home

Moved from the Village pump. ---Gengar orange 22x22 Fandyllic (talk · contr)


Hello .. My name is Alero I just came home to find My Guild disbanded , so I decideded to Start fresh and swapped to icecrown , I am a 70 prot spected warrior looking for a Home I spoke to a few members and they were very nice to Me , So I would like to Apply to this Guild .I do not expect to Deploy for another 3 Months and I do not expect to Step into a main Tank Spot , Can you offer Me a Home ?? Im Not a Great Warrior but I can hold my Own . and My gear is not so Bad , Not great but it works.. 1 of the guildies I Spoke to was Nightreaper , He was very nice to me..-- and if He is anything like the rest of your Members ,,, I would Love an invite , TYVM

Alero .
God Bless America and Her Warriors...

Hi ! 03:09, 13 November 2007 (UTC)

You might have better luck on the Malowned website. You can find the link on the Icecrown realm page. --Piu (?!) 04:22, 13 November 2007 (UTC)

How's this look?

Hey guys, I was wanting a guide to help me make gold better. I found a review of them that sounds good, so I was hoping some of you guys have some experience here and can tell me if I should take their advice. Anyway, here are the WoW Gold Making Guide Reviews


-- Sbateman 04:34, 15 November 2007 (UTC)

What I do wrong in creating my frost mage.

I seamed to end op with a frost/fire/arcane mage/ even to the point i call myself fire an ice. I know theres a proper sequence in talants ,i just didnt hit them right. at level 50,can someone tell me what the right tallents to maximuise my frost mage. thanx you for putting up with such a newbe question,

Littleoldman.

-- Littleoldman 13:44, 16 November 2007 (UTC)

See the Mage builds page for examples to compare yourself to. Without posting a link to your actual build, it's hard to give advice. My general advice is: "If you're not raiding or on an arena team, take whatever talents make you happiest. But keep in mind what you're giving up, in case some of them would make you happier." Play around with a calculator until you find a build you like, then switch to it. --Bobson 18:21, 18 November 2007 (UTC)

Anyone can help fixing the link on this page?

I can't get the link to be shown to the "Category:Magic Buffs" on this page: Arcane_Shot

-- Dyna18 01:05, 17 November 2007 (UTC)

Do not fear, Nathanyel is... over there, I think. Oh wait, he's right here :) Magic (Dispel Type) links to Category:Magic Buffs, which you apparently wanted to link to. ~ IconSmall Druidŋɑϑ 16:20, 17 November 2007 (UTC)
Hmmm I'm afraid that isn't exactly what I had in mind. I wanted to link to the "Category:Magic Buffs" page. Since it shows nicely all the buffs that can be dispelled.
Is it not possible to link to a Category page?
-- Dyna18 20:21, 17 November 2007 (UTC)
It is: place a colon in front of the link: [[:Category:Magic Buffs]] - however, I don't think it's good to link to a category directly, something like List of Magic Buffs would be better, if it existed. Plus, linking to the dispel type page gives a short overview of the "magic" effect, plus references the categories of buffs and debuffs of that type (linking to the categories in a "See..." paragraph seems at least a bit better to me)
A third opinion on this (maybe admin? :P) may prove to be constructive here. ~ IconSmall Druidŋɑϑ 11:20, 18 November 2007 (UTC)

Ignore ___ of your opponants armor

Im having trouble, with the new Heroic badge gear, there is a lot of ignore armor but absolutly no crit on the plate gear. I raid as a fury warrior and 154 armor ignored really seems... useless, yet i dont know how much armor SSC bosses and so on have. id like to know where Ignore armor comes into play with Hit rating, and crit rating, and now the expertise rating!

-- Point-Blank 17:13, 17 November 2007 (UTC)

Yeah, I wish they'd quit with the multitude of poorly explained stats and just give a specific number... (Idol of the Emerald Queen, I'm looking at you... ) 'Ignore armor' means their mitigation is lowered some. I'd say 154 armor is basically worthless; if you were fighting me in bear form, I'd go from around 22k armor to...around 22k armor. Maybe .05% mitigation lost, oh noes. --Azaram 10:00, 26 November 2007 (UTC)

Macro Help Please

Can anyone give me the command you type for the Mass Guild Recruitment Macro? I'd appreciate it.


-- Unholyflesh 01:41, 18 November 2007 (UTC)

Do you mean the ads people put on the guild recruitment channel (or trade, or general...)? If so, it's just /6 (or whatever the number of the channel happens to be). --Bobson 18:25, 18 November 2007 (UTC)

Outdoors

This ceratinly isn't the place for it, but i'm a newb to Wikipedia and so I'll just suggest something and let a more experienced person decide. Perhaps an article should be written to explain the definition of "Outdoors". there are many spells that are only usable outdoors, like all the mounts, ghost wolf, roots, etc. But there's no guide to explain to a newcomer what defines outdoors. You might not think it, but the common areas of Ironforge, Exodar, and the Undercity are considered outdoors, as is the interior of Zul'Farak and Zul'Gurub. Meanwhile, the barest of caves are considered indoors. Even the Wailing Caverns and the Underbog, where a spell like Roots would be thought to be castable. I brief article explaining the difference might be helpful. Chickamauga 20:46, 19 November 2007 (UTC)Chickamauga, 19 NOV 07

Moved from Talk:Entangling Roots. Outdoors is something thought to be quite self explanatory. Outdoors consists of everywhere that is outside, or a major city's roads/streets/walkways. The Instances ZG, ZF, and ZA all are outside in forest/desert like environments. Just because you think something would fit in a cave environemtn doesn't mean that it will be considered outdoors for the spell, blizzard doesn't seem to like having special rules for a few select abilities.   Zurr  TC 21:07, 19 November 2007 (UTC)
Unfortunately, that's not totally true... Razorfen Kraul and Downs, you can see the sky in the entire instance, but can't use any outside abilities... same with Strat, the streets have an open sky overhead but no thorns, can't mount, etc. --Azaram 02:28, 21 November 2007 (UTC)
Off-topic, but this is not Wikipedia... its WoWWiki. ;-) --Gengar orange 22x22 Fandyllic (talk · contr) 8:04 AM PST 21 Nov 2007
I think he simply meant the wiki system ;) ~ IconSmall Druidŋɑϑ 10:16, 22 November 2007 (UTC)
I agree needs an article explaining it and with all exceptions.--Gurluas 16:42, 28 November 2007 (UTC)

OMFG!11! 73h U83r 5w337n355

I HAVE to know where this guy got this. it is sooo cool. Gathorlo 02:15, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

...Please behave better. It comes from the Ashes of Al'ar.--SWM2448 02:53, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

+spell damage and 'lock pets

from the Felguard info it says that he gets a bonus to damage from the warlock's highest +spell damage numbers.... does this apply to all 'lock pets or just the felguard? -- Aki no kaze 17:03, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

Shaman weapon buff comparison

As an elemental/resto hybrid shaman, I still haven't found consistent answer to what should my "generic" weapon buff be? Rockbiter? Flametongue? Windfury? Frostbrand?

Wiki has even conflicting information and mostly seem to be focused on enhancement shammies. Flametongue_Weapon has it's own nice table which tends to say that Flametongue is best, Shaman_abilities#Weapon_Buffs tells that Frostshock is best...but nowhere can I find any conclusive information or comparisons on what should I use in generic situations (very specific ones against fire-immune opponents etc are of course another matter).

-- Zarhan 16:44, 22 November 2007 (UTC)

My impression from reading the data is that Flametongue is best if you have a lot of +spell damage or the target is heavily armored, rockbiter is better otherwise, and windfury is better than both for dual-wielding. No idea if that's accurate or not - I use rockbiter for soloing and WF for groups. --Bobson 01:50, 25 November 2007 (UTC)

Hunter Macro

I am just trying to find out if there is a way to write a macro for a hunter to only cast Hunter's Mark IF the current target is not already de-buffed with it. Ty in advance for your help. --—The preceding unsigned comment was added by Dooble (talkcontr). 11:31, 22 November 2007

You can use
/castsequence reset=120/target Hunter's Mark, null;
mind you, this doesn't of course check if the target is debuffed, but anyway, resets the sequence whenever 2 minutes are up or you go after new target.
I use similar for healing pets
/castsequence reset=15 Heal Pet, null;
--Zarhan 08:06, 23 November 2007 (UTC)

Ty, I will def try that out. --—The preceding unsigned comment was added by Dooble (talkcontr). 01:46, 23 November 2007

Macro Add On

I am just trying to find a mod that extends macro storage. I know of SuperMacro, BigMacro and agxmacro, but those are al either outdated, need a few bug fixes or not fleshed out enough. If anyone knows of something that would give me this function, I would greatly appreciate it. TY —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Dooble (talkcontr).

I looked around myself some days ago, but it seems it's no longer possible to extend the 18+18 macro slots limit. It's a shame, since the 2.3 /cancelform change really calls for lots of macros... ~ IconSmall Druidŋɑϑ 22:47, 24 November 2007 (UTC)

Ya, I have been posting on various websites and seem to be getting the same answer. I know it WAS possible, and it really sucks now. I have heard other druids talking about your problem and I myself as a warrior now, have need of many macro slots for the way I prefer to play. Is this something that just started with 2.3 (the limited macro slots)?? --—The preceding unsigned comment was added by Dooble (talkcontr). 21:16, 24 November 2007

In case anyone read this and is looking for unlimited macro usage, http://wowinterface.com/downloads/fileinfo.php?id=7810&so=&page=1 is a link for Trinity Bars which supports unlimited macro storage and unlimited macro script (not just 225 cahracters). It is however still in Beta phase and everything is not working perfectly, even so, keep an eye on it. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Dooble (talkcontr). 06:14, 27 November 2007

This looks very promising, thanks for the link :) However, please remember to sign your posts on talk pages with four tildes (~~~~) to add your signature. IconSmall Druidŋɑϑ 12:23, 28 November 2007 (UTC)

System requirements

Hello everyone ive been wanting to play wow for a while and im finally getting a computer for christmas and i was just wondering where can i find system requirements, or are they not on this site

-- Cfool09 20:57, 27 November 2007 (UTC)

(Fixed the box problem. Make sure what you type doesn't start with a space, or you get a one-line box that goes off the side of the screen.) You can find the system requirements on Blizzard's site here [1]. Enjoy your new addiction. :-D --Azaram 03:50, 28 November 2007 (UTC)
IMO those Blizzard system requirements should be considered like this:
1) The Minimum System Requirements means the game will start. That's about all.
2) The Recommended Specifications is the true minimum hw you can actually play the game with.
3) I would suggest surpassing the recommended by x2, if possible. Then the game might even be running smoothly. (I doubled my computer memory to 2GB, which is relatively cheap and it helped quite a lot)
The same applies to most games, ofc.
"Pessimism is just another term for experience"
-- Muztikki 07:08, 28 November 2007 (UTC)
I agree with you, but those are the 'official' ones. :-p I have 2g of memory and a 512M video card and it still only runs at most 30fps. --Azaram 09:02, 28 November 2007 (UTC)
I've been running on 2 older machines until a couple of months ago, so let me tell you this:
  • PC #1 (Year 2001): Pentium4 2 GhZ, 512MB of 400 MhZ memory, and a GeForce 3 Ti500 (which is very poor nowadays). The game worked "ok", there weren't any things that i COULDN'T do, however, many things we're a real pain. For example, if you are playing with a whole raid of 25 people and dozens of monsters on your screen, the game will be very laggy. You will not like it, it won't be too much fun, but you can serve your raid as an almost-fully capable member.
  • PC #2 (Year 2001, low-budget): Pentium4 1.8 GhZ, 512MB of 266MhZ memory, GeForce 3 Ti200. Levling up, completing quests, killing monsters, etc. worked. However, anything involving many players (and therefor many mobs) wouldn't do well. Of course, it wasn't impossible, but it slows you down a lot. You end up doing things your party needs you to do instantly one or two seconds too late.
I hope this was of any help. But, why don't you just tell us your gear, so we can tell you if it's going to be ok or not? - - 'tws'talk'cont' 13:59, 3 December 2007 (UTC)

Defend WOW!

Hi, I am doing an ethnographic study of WOW, and am having a hard time getting direct feedback from real players. I know people bash WOW and WOW players, but my hypothesis is that this sort of online gaming is a replacement for social institutions which are no longer popular (scouts, elks lodge, stamp clubs, church...)

Anyway, this is your chance to let me know why you think WOW is a good thing, and I will put it all in my study. Let me know what it means to you, how you play, memorable moments, etc., etc.

Post it here, or email to:

worldofwarcraftsurvey@gmail.com

Thanks

-- Friendo 08:45, 28 November 2007 (UTC)

(Killed another box. Make sure you don't start your message with a space.) --Azaram 09:02, 28 November 2007 (UTC)
Although the idea is laudable, it would be nice to have a few more details on the background of the study. We live in a cruel world and this could just be an attempt to collect e-mail addresses from WoWWikians. --Gengar orange 22x22 Fandyllic (talk · contr) 1:32 PM PST 28 Nov 2007

which gem

i am on the verge of getting my Gyro-balanced Khorium Destroyer when I realized it has a socket. Which gem should i put into the gun. I don't really want to spend more thank 100 gold on it (just go by the prices on your realm). Any suggestions would be great. THanks, Gathorlo 00:37, 29 November 2007 (UTC)

Depends on what you are... your user page says hunter, and that's not really a hunter's gun... Best you could put in it if you wanted the socket bonus would probably be one of the yellow +crit gems, or maybe one of the orange +agility. It's more like a tank's pulling gun than anything else. --Azaram 02:17, 29 November 2007 (UTC)

Well the WoWWiki page says it's mainly designed for hunters but CAN be used by tanks to pull. It's really the only readily available, easy to get gun that doesn't drop from a dungeon. If that isn't a hunter's gun, what is?

well forget all this. I just bought Don Santos' Famous Hunting Rifle for 950 gold and 5 primal airs. Gathorlo 03:32, 29 November 2007 (UTC)

Much better gun for a hunter. The Destroyer has a lot of stamina on it, which is why I said 'tank gun'... stamina helps pets, but I think the attack power proc on the rifle is a better idea for you. But that's just me, and as a hunter, I make a good druid. :p --Azaram 03:55, 29 November 2007 (UTC)

which enchant

i just bought Don Santos' Famous Hunting Rifle. Which enchant on it should I get on it. I was thinking like +crit or something but I don't know the names. I am a 70 MM hunter. Thanks, Gathorlo 03:49, 29 November 2007 (UTC)

You can't get enchants on ranged weapons... Only melee weapons, unless they've changed it recently. --Azaram 03:56, 29 November 2007 (UTC)
He's talking about scopes. Well, there are two high-end scopes, [Khorium Scope] which gives +12 dmg, and [Stabilized Eternium Scope], which gives +28 ranged critical strike rating. I think most hunters prefer the Eternium one, though it does of course cost a lot more. An epic gun, however, should be worth that. ~ IconSmall Druidŋɑϑ 12:58, 29 November 2007 (UTC)

*sigh* which scope?

I just bought [Don Santos' Famous Hunting Rifle]. I am a level 70 MM hunter. Which scope should I get for it? Gathorlo 04:10, 29 November 2007 (UTC)

Heh. I'm really not stalking you... I'd go for [Stabilized Eternium Scope], [Khorium Scope] or [Adamantite Scope], in that order. (You don't have to start a new section to continue a discussion each time, as well...) --Azaram 04:33, 29 November 2007 (UTC)

New mini-map blip types in Patch 2.3?

On my druid I'm noticing new blip types for humanoids on my mini-map:

File:In-faction blip 16x10.png for same faction, I believe.
File:Out-faction blip 16x10.png for opposing faction.

Has anyone seen any other new ones? Maybe depending on PvP flag or other mob types (demons, undead, etc.)? I don't have a high-level hunter to check these kind of things. --Gengar orange 22x22 Fandyllic (talk · contr) 1:14 AM PST 30 Nov 2007

Humanoids with a friendly reaction are green, neutral (and herb/mining node tracking) are yellow (probably non-flagged opposing players, too), hostile are red. Group members are blue. ~ IconSmall Druidŋɑϑ 14:11, 30 November 2007 (UTC)
So the ones above are the only really new ones? Here's what we have:
File:In-faction blip 16x10.png for Template:Friendly
File:Out-faction blip 16x10.png for Neutral 15 (non-flagged other faction too)
File:Mob blip 16x10.png for Template:Hostile
Party blip 16x10 for party members
File:Resource blip 16x10.png for nodes in char area
File:Under rsrc blip 16x10.png for nodes in separate from char area
Does that cover them all? --Gengar orange 22x22 Fandyllic (talk · contr) 11:21 AM PST 30 Nov 2007
NB, the blips apply to beasts and other mob types for those who can track them. "Nodes" also covers NPCs shown when tracking, say, class trainers. I believe the friendly/hostile blips also have a grey-ish indoor version (when it's indoors and you're outdoors). There are also the new ! and ? blips for quest givers. -- Harveydrone 19:45, 4 December 2007 (UTC)
In addition, with the next patch, we'll see a darker blue to indicate raid members while your actual party (group) members will be the lighter blue still. All in all, quite a nice switch up.Goliath Cobalt 23:26, 5 December 2007 (UTC)

Mob Drops

Moved to Mob Drops in Village pump since it belongs there. --Gengar orange 22x22 Fandyllic (talk · contr)

new patch items

Could someone add the following items to a bot rotation? Unfortunately I have no idea how to do that.

[Crystal Healing Potion]
[Crystal Mana Potion]

-- Dyna18 11:14, 5 December 2007 (UTC)

Just create the page and add {{:User:Foxbot/Update}} to the page. - ClydeJr - talk - contrib 21:17, 5 December 2007 (UTC)
Done. IconSmall Druidŋɑϑ 12:20, 6 December 2007 (UTC)

level 70

Who was the first level 70 in the entire world... of warcraft? Gathorlo 01:57, 7 December 2007 (UTC)

Probably someone in the beta, or a Blizzard employee. ~ IconSmall Druidŋɑϑ 09:46, 7 December 2007 (UTC)

Well that's probably true, when I first got BC people were talking about some French guy who got from 60-70 in like 51 hours or something like that. Anyone know what I'm talking about? Gathorlo 13:57, 7 December 2007 (UTC)

Ya, I remember hearing about it, the rumor I heard was that it was a team of players that switched off around the clock to level one toon. --BlameMe Mucke talkTo 17:25, 7 December 2007 (UTC)
I seem to remember someone saying that it was Kungen, but it may be me remembering wrong :P -- Ose 17:27, 7 December 2007 (UTC)
Just read Kungens page, and it says that he "Was the first horde character to reach level 70.". I guess that implies that someone leveled a alliance character to 70 first. -- Ose 17:31, 7 December 2007 (UTC)
There was an alliance mage on the french servers that did it in 3 days.   Zurr  TC 17:33, 7 December 2007 (UTC)

do you know what the name is Zurr? Gathorlo 22:33, 7 December 2007 (UTC)

This is a similar achievement - Champion Bachi. Kirkburn  talk  contr 22:45, 7 December 2007 (UTC)

Turalyon

I don't know if you all know who Turalyon is, but he's the big statue looking straight at the entrance to sw from the valley of heroes. Turalyon is my favorite character in the entire game. If you all played WC2X you would see how cool he was. I recently read the Tides of Darkness novel and they made him look good. I really hope blizz puts him back in the game with Alleria. Funny how 2/3 of the windrunner sisters hooked up with humans. If you guys are really interested in good lore, read the novels that come out. They're easy read and fun. ,.-semper-., —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Warsavior82 (talkcontr).

Blizz threw away the chance to include Turalyon and Alleria in Burning Crusade, unless they make other shreds of Draenor available in a future expansion, though I doubt that. Since we cannot find them in the accessible parts of Outland, they probably must be assumed dead. ~ IconSmall Druidŋɑϑ 12:55, 9 December 2007 (UTC)
"Blizz threw away the chance to include Turalyon and Alleria in Burning Crusade, unless they make other shreds of Draenor available in a future expansion"
Metzen said himself that's still on the back burner and was the original intent, though via the "portal worlds" which they didn't have tiem to do, not Outland itself. --User:Zeal/Sig2 13:10, 9 December 2007 (UTC)
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