WoWWiki:Village pump/Please leave this line as it is thanks

Current Discussions

Build Revisions

Due to the new 41-point talents, Wowhead's link code has changed, invalidating all the build links. Plus, new builds are needed now. Hopefully I can get some work done on the Priest builds page, but not being another class, wouldn't know where to begin with the others.

Qii 11:02, 7 December 2006 (EST)

Edit: Most, but not all. Strange... Qii 11:17, 7 December 2006 (EST)

Quest Templates

I honestly think how quests look now are terrible. Why not just have a little infobox in the corner that explains the level obtained, the level of the quest, the reward (exp only, I think items might get a bit hectic) and possibly who to hand it into and who gives the quest? At the moment they are large, bulky headings with one number/word underneath them. Change it up, I say.

Edit: An example quest: Brutal Armor--Suspchaos 06:37, 22 November 2006 (EST)

I like the idea. If we could come up with a sexy looking infobox, I say we should start going for it.--Hobinheim 07:45, 22 November 2006 (EST)
You mean like a quest tooltip? :-) // DarkRyder / Gossipgossipicon / Trainergossipicon // 09:51, 22 November 2006 (EST)
Am liking that tooltip! ~Bull3t (talk · contr · curr · wro · blog) // 13:07, 22 November 2006 (EST)
I orginally created the Quest:Brutal_Armor page a long time ago when there was an old quest boilerplate. There's a new quest boilerplate that includes the tooltip box. All new quests should use this new boilerplate. - ClydeJr 12:34, 23 November 2006 (EST)
I'm working on a questbox template for the quests.--Hobinheim 21:49, 23 November 2006 (EST)
 | name = C'Thun's Legacy
 | faction = Alliance
 | level = 60
 | levelreq = 59
 | type = Elite
 | start = [[Eye of C'Thun]]
 | end = [[Caelestrasz]]
 | reputation = 100-500 [[Wildhammer]]
 | experience = 40-500
 | rewards = [[Stoneskin Totem]] or [[Earth Totem]]
 | gold = 123
 | silver = 45
 | copper = 67
 | previous = {{quest|Your Place in the World}}
 | next = {{quest|Scarab Shells}}

To see what it would look like in use, check out Your Place in the World (Horde), Troll Necklace Bounty (Alliance), and Return to MacKinley (Neutral). Also, that's as sexalacious as I could make it. I don't think we have support for conditional templates. And I did sorta kinda think of a solution for that, but the difficulty of use far out-weighed a couple of "None" stubs. See the actual template Template:Questbox to see what happens when you don't specify values for certain fields.--Hobinheim 23:43, 23 November 2006 (EST)

Actually, we do have conditional templates -- check out Template:Tlink, Template:Tlink, and Template:Tlink. This would be good for lines like:
!style="text-align: left; vertical-align: top"| Previous
| {{quest|{{{previous}}}}}|}}
This would display any text provided as a quest link, but would omit that line entirely if one isn't specified. // DarkRyder / Gossipgossipicon / Trainergossipicon // 10:25, 24 November 2006 (EST)
Slowly folding it in since the syntax is a little finicky, but I wanted to say it works amazingly well! We now have conditional gold and I can definitely make these templates more sexalacious. I tried reading up on how they work, but it just boggles the mind really. Either way, it's fantastic. --Hobinheim 17:59, 25 November 2006 (EST)
Conditionals and infoboxes are sooooooo nice. Dark, there's some minor issues with your syntax, mostly because of the dual role | plays. Here's a better version of the same thing: --Tekkub 18:51, 25 November 2006 (EST)
{{if|test={{{previous|}}}|then=!style="text-align: left; vertical-align: top"{{!}} Previous
{{!}} {{quest|{{{previous}}}}}|}}
I'm liking the tooltip. Suggestion - add a Repeatable (Yes/No) line. - Phelddagrif 01:46, 1 December 2006 (EST)
I've started using this tooltip in a few Hillsbrad quest chains, in particular the Elixir of Agony quest line. Looks great so far. I also think there should be a way of marking the quest as repeatable, and maybe a location marker as well. --Mikaka 22:10, 2 December 2006 (EST)

Tradeskill categories

Okay I've been reworking and rethinking a lot the tradeskill item categories... my main idea was to make the category subdivided into Items needed for the tradeskill, Items obtained by the tradeskill, Tools needed for the tradeskill, Recipes for the tradeskill. With the exception of mining which has an additionnal category splitting Mined Items and Category:Smelting Products.

This should go as such, in italic names needing rework: * [[:Category:Alchemy]]: [[:Category:Alchemy Ingredients]], [[:Category:Alchemy Products]], [[:Category:Alchemy Recipes]] ** Additional categories: [[:Category:Flasks]], [[:Category:Elixirs]], [[:Category:Potions]] * [[:Category:Blacksmithing]]: [[:Category:Blacksmithing Ingredients]], [[:Category:Blacksmithing Products]], [[:Category:Blacksmithing Plans]], [[:Category:Blacksmithing Trainers]] ** Possible additional categories for Armorsmithing, Axesmithing, Swordsmithing, etc * [[:Category:Cooking]]: [[:Category:Cooking Ingredients]], [[:Category:Cooking Products]], [[:Category:Cooking Trainers]] * [[:Category:Engineering]]: [[:Category:Engineering Ingredients]], [[:Category:Engineering Products]], [[:Category:Engineering Schematics]], [[:Category:Engineering Trainers]] ** Additional category: [[:Category:Engineering Bags]], possible additional categories for Gnomish/Goblin engineering * [[:Category:Enchanting]]: [[:Category:Enchanting Ingredients]], [[:Category:Enchanting Products]], [[:Category:Enchanting Rods]], [[:Category:Disenchanted Items]], ''[[:Category:Enchanting Formulae]]'', [[:Category:Enchanting Trainers]] * [[:Category:First Aid]]: [[:Category:First Aid Ingredients]], [[:Category:First Aid Products]], [[:Category:First Aid Manuals]], [[:Category:First Aid Trainers]] * [[:Category:Fishing]]: [[:Category:Fished Items]], [[:Category:Fishing Poles]], [[:Category:Fishing Trainers]] * [[:Category:Jewelcrafting]]: [[:Category:Jewelcrafting Ingredients]], [[:Category:Jewelcrafting Products]], [[:Category:Jewelcrafting Designs]], [[:Category:Jewelcrafting Trainers]] ** Additional category: [[:Category:Socketed Items]], [[:Category:Jewels]] * [[:Category:Leatherworking]]: [[:Category:Leatherworking Ingredients]], [[:Category:Leatherworking Products]], [[:Category:Leatherworking Patterns]], [[:Category:Leatherworking Trainers]] * [[:Category:Herbalism]]: ''[[:Category:Gathered Items]]'', [[:Category:Herbalism Trainers]] ** Additional category: [[:Category:Herb Bags]] * [[:Category:Mining]]: [[:Category:Smelting Ingredients]], [[:Category:Smelting Products]], [[:Category:Mined Items]], [[:Category:Mining Picks]], [[:Category:Mining Trainers]] * [[:Category:Skinning]]: [[:Category:Skinned Items]], [[:Category:Skinning Trainers]] * [[:Category:Tailoring]]: [[:Category:Tailoring Ingredients]], [[:Category:Tailoring Products]], [[:Category:Tailoring Patterns]], [[:Category:Tailoring Trainers]]

Any ideas, proposals? --Adys 13:31, 22 November 2006 (EST)

Nice idea, but whos idea is this, no signature! ~Bull3t (talk · contr · curr · wro · blog) // 13:15, 22 November 2006 (EST)
Gha, sorry ;) --Adys 13:31, 22 November 2006 (EST)
I see who it is now, yeah I think it is a nice idea. ~Bull3t (talk · contr · curr · wro · blog) // 16:33, 22 November 2006 (EST)
Looks good to me. I do think you need to have additional cats for all the production specialties like armorsmithing, weaponsmithing, etc. I know I already created cats for those (example: Category:Armorsmithing) but you might want to change the name to something that works better, maybe something like Category:Blacksmithing:Armorsmithing or something like that.
Just curious but how are items supposed to fix in the cats? For example: Peacebloom. Would it would go under all 4 of Alchemy, Alchemy Ingredients, Herbalism, and Gathered Items? - ClydeJr 16:14, 23 November 2006 (EST)
No, something that is in a subcategory shouldn't go in the category of the subcategory (example: Category:Items has as subcategory Category:Equipment, which has as subcategory Category:Weapons, which has as subcategory Category:Ranged Weapons, which has as subcategory Category:Guns. Even though Gurubashi Dwarf Destroyer would fit in all these categories, we are letting it only in Category:Guns. :P
Peacebloom would go in Category:Alchemy Ingredients (subcat of Alchemy) and Category:Gathered Items (subcat of Herbalism). However, I'm trying to figure out a better name for the Gathered Items category. Something that would make sence I mean :-P --Adys 19:35, 23 November 2006 (EST)
Category:Gathered Herbs? Although I can only think of one herb that isn't gathered... --Karrion 21:07, 23 November 2006 (EST)


Okay... Well the truth is Boilerplate:Item is completely buggered after the edit for some small tooltip thing. You cannot use {{subst::Boilerplate:Item}} because of what has been changed, and when you copy and paste it, for some reason it has <noinclude> tags all over things. It really needs to be sorted, sorry for this rant and rave... ~Bull3t (talk · contr · curr · wro · blog) // 11:03, 22 November 2006 (EST)

Might be me, but I can't see the problem. The no-includes make things, well, not included when subst'd, so you can just delete them. --Tinkerer 11:17, 22 November 2006 (EST)
Yeah, that is what the no includes are supposed to be for, but the {{subst::Boilerplate:Item}} doesn't work; it shows a small tooltip, and not the full template. ~Bull3t (talk · contr · curr · wro · blog) // 13:00, 22 November 2006 (EST)
Logical, because of the tooltip thing invented here. If you want the Boilerplate, just copy and paste the whole thing. --Tinkerer 13:01, 22 November 2006 (EST)
Which defeats the object of {{subst::Boilerplate:Item}}, what I am trying to say is, why wasn't the tooltip invention on a new page? Like Boilerplate:Item/Tooltip or something to that effect? ~Bull3t (talk · contr · curr · wro · blog) // 13:06, 22 November 2006 (EST)
How about that? Use {{subst:Boilerplate:Item/Subst}} and it copypastes the code there. You will just have to remake the noinclude tags. --Adys 13:43, 22 November 2006 (EST)
Bull3t: Because that'd destroy the tooltips. One loose subst doesn't destroy them all :p --Tinkerer 13:47, 22 November 2006 (EST)
Meh, I see, thanks for doing that though Adys! ~Bull3t (talk · contr · curr · wro · blog) // 15:39, 22 November 2006 (EST)
The whole shebang can be redone without noincludes if you guys want... and it might be a better route in the end. Simple solution, move the tooltip to a seperate page Cyclone Shoulderplates/Tooltip and transclude that into the main item page. This means if someone wants the tooltip in their page they have to grab that subpage instead of the main item page. Mikk and I decided on this route because it's easier to manage with a bot uploading data dumped frm the game. You'll notice all the T4 set items I've put up used this method... and yes I think it's working quite well. In the end it just means you'll have to create more than one page for an item.
Also, we're trying some other subpages, like /Icon and /Price. This lets pages and templates get specific data they need about an item. For example Quartermaster_Davian_Vaclav's item table is built from these transcluded pages. It's a really nifty way for us to built a database of item info, instead of just static item pages that are hard for a bot to add/update. --Tekkub 21:50, 22 November 2006 (EST)
Yeah, I think transcluded pages are a very nice idea, but at the moment the transcluded pages are not categorised, I am currently debating whether I should add them all to Category:Transcludable Pages and make a template called Template:Tlink, so that it adds a bar on the transclusion pages, "[[Category:Transcludable Pages]]" and "{{transclude}}" can both be added to the bot exception list (so that it will not read those lines for anything), shouldn't be too hard. ~Bull3t (talk · contr · curr · wro · blog) // 10:47, 23 November 2006 (EST)

Server Crashes?

Well... The Wiki was going rather slow earlier, and was, at times, not loading pages. Was wondering whether we had server crahses or errors? ~Bull3t (talk · contr · curr · wro · blog) // 15:41, 22 November 2006 (EST)

Attack Power for Druids

Looking at the wowwiki info [1] the following formula is given for Druid Attack Power in Cat form:

AP = (STR * 2) - 20 + (Character Level * 2) + AGI

So for my level 55 Druid with all equipment removed and in Cat form I should have an AP of

(68 * 2) - 20 + (55 * 2) + 60 = 286

Looking in the Character Panel, can anyone explain why I see my Melee Attack Power value as 368? A difference of +82

The discrepency also continues when I have my equipment in place. The value, according to the wowwiki formula shoud be:

(122 * 2) -20 + (55 * 2) + 266 = 600

The value in the Character Panel under Melee Attack Power is now 682

Again a difference of +82

Well, at least the difference is constant!

BTW - no Buffs, Potions, Blessings etc. were in place when these numbers were recorded other than the bonuses introduced by my equipment in the second set of figures ofc.

Is it the case that Attack Power is not the same as Melee Attack Power and I am looking at this the wrong way?

As is obvious, I am somewhat confused......

.....but no longer! Prompted by Tinker's thoughts (below) I went and checked my Talents. I have 3/3 points in Predatory Strikes which: Increases your melee attack power in Cat ... Forms by 150% of your level 55 x 150% = 82.5, which appears to supply the additional (constant) +82.

---Ych 09:17, 23 November 2006 (EST)

Someone who has a druid would need to double-check, but if it's +82 everywhere it's quite easy to solve, right? :) Also, did you spec something before testing? --Tinkerer 09:36, 23 November 2006 (EST)

Transcluded Pages

I think transcluded pages are a very nice idea, but at the moment the transcluded pages are not categorised, I am currently debating whether I should add them all to Category:Transcluded Pages and make a template called Template:Tlink, so that it adds a bar on the transclusion pages, "[[Category:Transcluded Pages]]" and "{{transclude}}" can both be added to the bot exception list (so that it will not read those lines for anything), shouldn't be too hard. ~Bull3t (talk · contr · curr · wro · blog) // 11:01, 23 November 2006 (EST)

Template might be a PITA, because you're going to want it to not transclude from your transcludable page :) Perhaps we should make more specific categories, like Item Tooltips, Item Prices, etc? --Tekkub 14:00, 23 November 2006 (EST)
PITA? I don't follow. ~Bull3t (talk · contr · curr · wro · blog) // 02:33, 24 November 2006 (EST)
Pain in the ass.--Hobinheim 03:37, 24 November 2006 (EST)
People for the Insane Tickling of Animals --Tekkub 09:50, 24 November 2006 (EST)
Pwning Instances Totally Amazingly.--K ) (talk) 10:25, 24 November 2006 (EST)
Okay, I think I get the message... Anyway, I never thought of transcluding the parts you don't want, I suppose <noinclude> would not work? Hmm... Maybe it wasn't such a good idea. ~Bull3t (talk · contr · curr · wro · blog) // 10:28, 24 November 2006 (EST)
Hum, I guess you could just wrap the template call in noincludes... <noinclude>{{transclude}}</noinclude>... that would prolly work... --Tekkub 11:06, 24 November 2006 (EST)
Yeah, noinclude works! Woo, I might go ahead and make that template, and start adding it, unless anyone has an objection? ~Bull3t (talk · contr · curr · wro · blog) // 11:35, 24 November 2006 (EST)
Okay! The template is created: Template:T1link it will always have to look like that, unless someone else, or I can figure out a better way to include the page name. Use <noinclude>{{Transclude|mother page name/page it is used on}}</noinclude> to add the template safely. The category is Category:Transcludable Pages. ~Bull3t (talk · contr · curr · wro · blog) // 11:48, 24 November 2006 (EST)
Looks great, I'll make sure I add that to new pages I put up. --Tekkub 14:31, 24 November 2006 (EST)


Hello=) I would like to join The guild Iam a 60 warrior full protection specc and im intressted to raid and meat friends :P and get a good gear. I think our guild is intressted and i like the name;:P --Smaskig 14:42, 23 November 2006 (EST)--Smaskig 14:42, 23 November 2006 (EST)Smaskig

Eh? --Tinkerer 14:50, 23 November 2006 (EST)
Eh, is exactly what I was thinking, Smaskig this is not a guild recruitment website, it is a Wiki. ~Bull3t (talk · contr · curr · wro · blog) // 14:58, 23 November 2006 (EST)
Like the name? What name? // Montagg (talk · contr) 00:02, 24 November 2006 (EST)

Reading and Editing Public Notes

Im trying to make a Guild addon that will tell me if a member of a certain rank in the guild has his Public Note set.

What wonders me is that if i take the GetGuildRosterInfo(index) on a member and print it directly i will get all informations on him. (Name RankAsNumber Level RankAsText PublicNote) But if i store it in a Variable before printing it will only contain his name ??

I have also set a members Public note with GuildRosterSetPublicNote(index, "note") and that works fine but isnt there a Get function also?

so summasumarum How do i get the Rank and Public Note of the indexed Guild Member?

--Mirania 17:28, 24 November 2006 (EST)

local name, rank, rankIndex, level, class, zone, note, officernote, online, status = GetGuildRosterInfo(index); will assign the values to the variables name, rank, note etc... --Karrion 18:21, 24 November 2006 (EST)
Alternatively, "local data = {GetGuildRosterInfo(index)};" // DarkRyder / Gossipgossipicon / Trainergossipicon // 23:29, 24 November 2006 (EST)
That method is rather wasteful however, and can cause a lot of garbage generation if used too much. Karrion's method is better if your using this on more than a handful of calls. --Tekkub 08:58, 25 November 2006 (EST)

Thumbnailer Bot

Okay, as many of you may have seen the Recent Changes list is being spammed by me, that is because I have made an application that acts as a bot to thumbnail all the images under the NPC sections. It works very well as of now and is fast, so basically if you see my edits on the Recent Changes list, you know they are going to be legitemate, so just skim over them if you are RC Patrolling... Hehe. At the moment it does around 15-20 pages a minute, fast! ~Bull3t (talk · contr · curr · wro · blog) // 06:26, 25 November 2006 (EST)

Might be nice to mark it as a bot ;) --Tinkerer 11:10, 25 November 2006 (EST)
Hmm.. How would I do that, also, it logs in as me at the moment... ~Bull3t (talk · contr · curr · wro · blog) // 11:44, 25 November 2006 (EST)
Well, it's done now, so I presume it isn't of much use at the moment.. You can, however, make an account for the bot and make it log in on that :) --Tinkerer 11:49, 25 November 2006 (EST)
But then I wouldn't get the contribution count, haha :D! How would I go about adding it as a bot anyway, because I can use it elsewhere too, once I had added more to the program I may release it... ~Bull3t (talk · contr · curr · wro · blog) // 11:50, 25 November 2006 (EST)
WoWWiki:Bots --Tinkerer 12:00, 25 November 2006 (EST)
It says don't bother applying if you are not going to be making massive edits, but I think it is a little late to create a new one now, because I have finished one of the main massive ones, not sure whether I will be doing more edits like that, but I doubt it, my bot will probably be used for small edits that I am too lazy to do myself, heh. ~Bull3t (talk · contr · curr · wro · blog) // 12:11, 25 November 2006 (EST)
Alright :) *getting cuious about the bot now* --Tinkerer 12:26, 25 November 2006 (EST)
Hehe, well I will give you a shot of the scripting you can do so far:
## Script: Initialized

## Information: Logging in...
SetInputField(0, "wpName", "USERNAME");
SetInputField(0, "wpPassword", "PASSWORD");

## Information: Logged in.

## Information: Running script...

GetInputField(0, "wpTextbox1", "");
SetInputField(0, "wpTextbox1", GetInputField & "User:Bull3t Was ere!");

## Script: End
Basically, this logs into the Wiki, by navigating to the WoWWiki login page, enters your username and password into the boxes, submits the form (logs in) waits for 2 seconds redirects to the Wiki Main Page, waits for 1 second and begins the script. The script browses to the edit page of User:Bull3t (this bit I need to automate more) reads what is in the source code box and adds "User:Bull3t Was ere!" to the end of it all, then saves it. I need to automate more of these features and functions before I can release it though. ~Bull3t (talk · contr · curr · wro · blog) // 13:05, 25 November 2006 (EST)
Very nice. Should give this a shot myself sometime :) --Tinkerer 13:17, 25 November 2006 (EST)
Forgot to say; That script is read by a Visual Basic coded program that I wrote, it then carries out the commands on the script as if they were part of the program itself. ~Bull3t (talk · contr · curr · wro · blog) // 14:08, 25 November 2006 (EST)

Hmm more after the fact stuff... I did pretty much the same thing, to assist ~Bull3t (talk · contr · curr · wro · blog) // with his project... Now would be a really good time to apply for a bot account. I'm already tired of me nuking the recent changes list... =( But my edits are clearly marked, especially when I just let the bot go wild. Normally I sit there and approve each change. --Hobinheim 17:41, 25 November 2006 (EST)

I just realized something... If all the mass edits I make get counted towards the bot, I won't get those post awards as fast, haha. --Hobinheim 17:50, 25 November 2006 (EST)
Okely dokely, I created a new account. Could I get it flagged as a bot? The name is Hobinbot. --Hobinheim 17:50, 25 November 2006 (EST)
Get it tagged by applying, here: WoWWiki:Bots. I just had a thought aswell... The problem with making my bot as easy as it is too code, if it gets into the wrong hands then it is easy to vandalise 10+ pages per minute! Hmm... ~Bull3t (talk · contr · curr · wro · blog) // 03:26, 26 November 2006 (EST)
That's what mass reverts are for :-p --Adys 03:33, 26 November 2006 (EST)
I see... Didn't know you could do mass reverts. Hehe, that's good. ~Bull3t (talk · contr · curr · wro · blog) // 03:44, 26 November 2006 (EST)

I just got User:Hobinbot approved for the bot group. In fact, I made some edits right now, but they should be hidden, by default, from the recent changes list. --Hobinheim 20:46, 28 November 2006 (EST)

Image Linking

Is there not a way to embed an image into a page, that does not link anywhere? ~Bull3t (talk · contr · curr · wro · blog) // 09:07, 25 November 2006 (EST)

I don't think so, no - why would you want that? --Tinkerer 11:09, 25 November 2006 (EST)
For Template:Wowbox it has the corners, but they are linked to the image, which is quite annoying. ~Bull3t (talk · contr · curr · wro · blog) // 11:45, 25 November 2006 (EST)
Ah, yes, I can see that.. I have no idea about how to solve it though, except for making it script-based (without images)... That'd make it look worse, though. --Tinkerer 11:48, 25 November 2006 (EST)
Meh, I will leave it then. ~Bull3t (talk · contr · curr · wro · blog) // 11:52, 25 November 2006 (EST)

Class-specific epic quests

I started a new category: Epic_Quests to collect all the information on the class-specific epic quests like Anathema. I'm wondering if it might have been better named Category:Class-specific Epic Quests, though. Thoughts? Also, if there's more epic quests I didn't know to link in, please add to them.--Bobson 23:05, 25 November 2006 (EST)

There are so few of those "epic quests" that you might as well combine them all together. Seems okay like this :-) --Tinkerer 13:00, 26 November 2006 (EST)

Lua and Mysql

So i know it is not possible to write in Realtime OUT of world of warcraft. BUT!

Is it possible to read?

I want to write an addon that compares online members to a forum memberlist on a website. ie. i wanna check if my guildies have registered on the guild website.

ive been searching around and found MyLua and LuaSocket and LuaSQL. Only LuaSocket seems to be able to but im not that hardcore that i can tell for sure.

So. Can i access an external DB for READ purpose only and store what i read in variables?


sry for double post.. no headline.. --Mirania 08:18, 27 November 2006 (EST)

Not possible. In order for you to read something, it has to be written out. WoW makes copies of all the saved variable stuff in memory and uses those until you make a clean shutdown. If you've ever had your client crash (and skip the saving phase), you'll notice none of your preferences have been saved (except for the ones that are stored online). --Hobinheim 10:39, 27 November 2006 (EST)
You can delete the 2nd post... its a wiki. I removed it for ya. --Colinstu 16:12, 27 November 2006 (EST)
What you can do is write an external application that accesses your db and writes the results as a lua file into the directory of your wow mod, and when you reload your ui it will load whatever you wrote into that lua file (in your example assign a variable all members of your forum) and then you can work with the stuff that came originally from your db --Pupapaya 18:24, 27 November 2006 (EST)

Battleground Ranks and Honor

I'm not sure if you all have seen this, and found it unreliable, but the page on Ranks and Honor (requirements on points to make ranks) are incorrect. Before I signed up I actually used them, they didn't seem correct so I contacted a GM and he explained to me that there are no requirements. Which would mean we should remove that information from the page. You don't have to, but that's my best suggestion.

--General Zeus 08:24, 27 November 2006 (EST)

Can you link the page you're referring to? I don't see what you're talking about. --Bobson 08:46, 27 November 2006 (EST)
I believe this is what he is referring to Formulas:Honor System. --Dracomage 11:54, 27 November 2006 (EST)
I'm not sure how much worth it will be to try to fix this since the next patch is going to do away with the current honor/rank system. I would say just hold off until the new system appears, document the new system, and then archive off the info on the old system. - ClydeJr 16:05, 27 November 2006 (EST)

WoW TCG Adding the cards?

So, recently the World of Warcraft TCG has been released. I myself have gotten pretty strongly in it and am really enjoying it, but I need a source to get a list of every single card.

Now I can do the work it takes to add every card to the wiki, with a scan and a retype of the text. Currently we only have an incomplete setlist with information which is in many cases even wrong.

Many players will enjoy this, because it does happen to have new small snippets of lore.

However, how much am allowed to scan in due to copyright rules? Your thoughts on this please!

--Patrigan Lvl 60 lock EU-Shattered Hand 15:35, 27 November 2006 (EST)

I'd think no pictures and no rules text. Just the card name and any flavor text, maybe with a short description of the ability if it's relevant to the lore. --Bobson 08:12, 29 November 2006 (EST)
That seems so Useless... I mean, we have things from Warcraft3 and Warcraft Books, so why not the cards as well? --Patrigan Lvl 60 lock EU-Shattered Hand 17:55, 29 November 2006 (EST)
My thought is that we don't have enough information on here to play WCIII or the RPG, and we don't have the full text of any of the books. Thus we put up info on the cards, but not enough to play without actually owning them. --Bobson 13:21, 29 November 2006 (EST)
What about adding a rulepage then? Also holding every rulechange and individual errata on the cards? Some cards have gotten errata already and visiting the WoWwiki pages about it should clear things up for them. --Patrigan Lvl 60 lock EU-Shattered Hand 21:44, 29 November 2006 (EST)
Ya got me. I know there's sites out there with databases of all M:tG cards. Someone else weigh in on this issue, please? --Bobson 08:27, 30 November 2006 (EST)
I'm not a lawyer; this is not legal advice. AFAIK it is ok if you give them credit. Go ahead and put it up, the worst they will do is ask you to take it down. Don't really see that happening though, it is free publicity for them to have it posted. --Emit 13:02, 1 December 2006 (EST)

Database error... to the face!

I've gotten a bunch of these. Something going down on the server? Any note on how long it'll be? // Montagg (talk · contr) 13:50, 28 November 2006 (EST)

Editing or something seems to help. This is the error:

A database query syntax error has occurred. This may indicate a bug in the software. The last attempted database query was: (SQL query hidden) from within function "MediaWikiBagOStuff::_doinsert". MySQL returned error "126: Incorrect key file for table './wowwiki/objectcache.MYI'; try to repair it (localhost)". --Tinkerer 14:28, 28 November 2006 (EST)

I get the error after editing sometimes, but I can still look at and edit the source. ::Shrug.:: // Montagg (talk · contr)
It has completely gone down now, what is going on? ~Bull3t (talk · contr · curr · wro · blog) // 14:32, 28 November 2006 (EST)
I've had a bunch of these errors as well, Usually refreshing the page, or finding a different link to it works for me. --Fusk 16:30, 28 November 2006 (EST)

Profession Guides

1-300_Profession_Guides Does anyone think it would be more productive to delete this section, and put the guides under the already made profession pages? I have been working on a bunch of Prof guides, and imo it would be easier if they were listed under the profession page. Let me know what ya think, I'll start typin out the guides so I can just Copy+Paste to where ever you think is best.

--Fusk 13:54, 28 November 2006 (EST)

Agreed. Best to keep this info on the relevant pages instead of centralized. // Montagg (talk · contr) 16:37, 28 November 2006 (EST)
I'll second that. There's no informative reason to have information on 1-300 in alchemy along with 1-300 in blacksmithing. No one is ever going to need to read both in a row (they may want to because they have both a blacksmith and an alchemist, but that's a different story). We may not want to dump the whole guide onto the profession page, though. Better to just separate them each to their own page and provide a link. Then we can link to multiple guides. Yours, the current ones, anyone else's... Or we could just have one page with all the alchemy guides, like we have one page for all of each class' builds. --Bobson 08:27, 29 November 2006 (EST)

I'm not very good at laying things out on my own. If someone wants to create the pages and links off of each Prof page, I can fill in the guides. Or atleast for 1, I can do the rest after that. ----Fusk 9:54, 29 November 2006 (EST)

Calling any BC beta testers!!

Terror Guard Greaves It shows double +stam on those. Is that how they are supposed to be, or is one of them supposed to be a different stat? Just trying to keep everything as up to date and correct as possible.

-To any BC Beta testers: your doing a great job on putting in info on the BC!!

--Fusk 16:26, 28 November 2006 (EST)

I think one of those is probably Agility. But, I'm no beta tester, so I won't change it. // Montagg (talk · contr) 16:40, 28 November 2006 (EST)
Yes, one was supposed to be agility. I will change it now. Sam Weber 17:10, 28 November 2006 (EST)

Thanks! ~~ Fusk /talk\ 10:21, 29, November 2006 (GMT)

PVP Arena rewards

T4 has been coming together, so what about the PVP rewards? I added the pages and some templates, Here: it is. I will add it sometime, but you can start too. sig not working??? --Colinstu

What you mean, sig not working? ~Bull3t (talk · contr · curr · wro · blog) // 10:55, 29 November 2006 (EST)
It wouldn't put the time in. It would just when I press the sig button ----. It still does it. Isn't it usually --~~~~? Let me try that --Colinstu 15:59, 29 November 2006 (EST)
Works for me... ~Bull3t (talk · contr · curr · wro · blog) // 13:04, 30 November 2006 (EST)


OK, whats the communities feeling on a series of pages on powerleveling? In other words something similar to the guides that are available across the net?

I know the alliance side pretty well, have a few of the guides handy too, and figure that by combining my experience and the information from many of the guides, thotbot, and others, we could have a pretty good series of pages.

The only part I am confused about and would need help with is, how to format it. Should it be a category of its own? Something like Powerleveling.Alliance.Levels X-Y . I could create pages for specific level ranges or by area, though some areas are best revisited at different levels.

The quests would have to of course exist in WoWWiki with a little more detail that we have now. The main missing ingredient is that for most quests is the map coordinates for various parts of the quests.


--Sharlin 05:49, 29 November 2006 (EST)

I'd love to see it. As far as naming, I'd suggest a Powerleveling page, with sub pages Powerleveling/Alliance and Powerleveling/Horde, unless you'd rather break it down by race. Level ranges can just be sections of those pages. If that would make the pages too long, you can break it down further, maybe with Powerleveling/Alliance/1-10 and the like. Don't forget to use Breadcrumbs! --Bobson 08:22, 29 November 2006 (EST)
Nice idea, not sure what the rules are on posting guides like this, I have compiled a small Gold Guide that I am unsure of whether it can be added. Meh, they can always be deleted if it isn't right, or is frowned upon. ~Bull3t (talk · contr · curr · wro · blog) // 10:37, 29 November 2006 (EST)
I dont see the problem if the ways are legal oO --Adys 10:48, 29 November 2006 (EST)
You might want to read this if you haven't used subpages before. --Bobson 12:09, 29 November 2006 (EST)

Be sure to define powerleveling in its own page, and use existing material before creating your own. And I don't think powerleveling is expansive enough to merit its own category. There's a guides category, it can go there. --Hobinheim 11:55, 29 November 2006 (EST)

Didn't know Category:Guides existed, meh Powerlevel Blacksmithing and Powerlevel Tailoring exist so I don't see why Powerleveling shouldn't, go ahead and create it. May also add my gold guide later too. ~Bull3t (talk · contr · curr · wro · blog) // 13:35, 29 November 2006 (EST)
If your information is specific to a class, you might want to put it in each class's respective page. General powerleveling tips can go in Powerleveling, though. If the guides for each faction become expansive, try Powerleveling (Horde) and Powereleveing (Alliance) as main articles for those factions and keep general tips in Powerleveling. // Montagg (talk · contr) 15:14, 29 November 2006 (EST)

Sounds like a great idea, i have some guides I have written for leveling :) Although i feel it should be called Leveling Guides, not powerleveling... Powerleveling sounds too much like chinease power levelers --Thursday 20:47, 29 November 2006 (EST)

Well I started with a new Powerleveling page. The discussion portion was marked too quickly for my taste stating that a merge of it needs to take place with an exisitng page, Power Leveling. I would prefer to hold off until the page has been properly established (I haven't the time during work to make a real run of it)
Too be honest the style of your "powerleveling" is not actually powerleveling, because it is legal and no money is asked for. Thus making it a Walkthrough not a powerleveling guide. Just thought I would let you know. ~Bull3t (talk · contr · curr · wro · blog) // 13:03, 30 November 2006 (EST)
Well this is where we differ. Its a play style. To me powerleveling never involves doing anything illegal, let alone paying for service. That is a whole different process.

Sharlin 08:23, 1 December 2006 (EST)

The point is... Why make a page with the same name, and add new info there, if you could simply grab the original page, and edit that? now we'll have to make 1 of the pages a redirect.  - CJ talk / cont  06:41, 1 December 2006 (EST)

Should I just overwrite the old page? How do we want it displayed? Powerleveling or Power Leveling? Doesn't matter to me. I did it as one word. Sharlin 12:40, 1 December 2006 (EST)
Used Power_Leveling as the main page, and merged the 2 pages. just needs cleanup, and duplicate info (which was in the old article) removed. from there on it should probably be easy to expand upon your original idea.  - CJ talk / cont  05:12, 4 December 2006 (EST)

Extremely slow page loads

This is most likely just a problem for me, but I've been getting some really, really slow loads on pages, and often get timed out. I think it might be due to the fact that I'm making a lot of minor edits (page moves) in a short amount of time, and the server might be trying to block me because it thinks I'm a bot. Is there a way to stop this from happening, or will I just have to move between short edits and long edits to waylay the server's fears? // Montagg (talk · contr) 15:24, 29 November 2006 (EST)

Personally, I don't think that's it. I've made tons of edits in a short amount of time on both a flagged and unflagged account, no difference. I think the server is just having some personal troubles this month. Hopefully he'll get over it soon. --Hobinheim 15:43, 29 November 2006 (EST)
I've made edits to 4 commonly used Templates that used the Exists conditional, each time it brought the server to nearly a standstill for several minutes; I am sure it was directly related to those edits. This is understandable, but the more dynamic articles get, the more it will slow everything down. --Gryphon 17:55, 29 November 2006 (EST)
Yeah edit amounts is nothing to do with the lag, I did exactly what Hobinheim did, and it doesn't make a difference. The server is just overloading itself and slowing down sometimes. ~Bull3t (talk · contr · curr · wro · blog) // 12:59, 30 November 2006 (EST)
It's not the 'amount', it is the 'what' you edit. I guarantee you edit Template:Epic and the site will slow down. As a test I will do it right now. --Gryphon 13:29, 30 November 2006 (EST)
Why is that then? ~Bull3t (talk · contr · curr · wro · blog) // 13:44, 30 November 2006 (EST)
It is using dynamic templates that have to be re-cached, most articles are just what they are, others (like the recent influx of 'if then else' articles) have to determine a bunch of factors to create them. --Gryphon 13:47, 30 November 2006 (EST)

Move the search box up? Move the ads down?

Could the search box on the left side of the screen be moved up? My monitor is at 1280x1024 and I still have to scroll down to get to it. Or that big old google ad w/ wow gold be moved down? TY --Colinstu 16:25, 29 November 2006 (EST)

The google ad probably can't be brought down too much. I'm guessing there's some policy about keeping it "above the fold" as web designers call it, above a certain threshold. --Hobinheim 16:37, 29 November 2006 (EST)
There is no Google policy about where you have to place them. --Gryphon 17:58, 29 November 2006 (EST)
While I disagree about the Google ads (they are in prime location), I do think that the search box could be moved above the ad box. Style it so that the table is smaller, remove the Google image, and make it default to only WoWWiki. Sam Weber 17:16, 29 November 2006 (EST)
To be honest all of the addverts should be set so that they do not display any powerleveling or gold selling at all, because I thought WoWWiki was supposed to be with Blizzard/World of Warcraft and powerleveling/gold selling is not... ~Bull3t (talk · contr · curr · wro · blog) // 12:58, 30 November 2006 (EST)
That has been responded to, it is impossible to keep them clear (I do it for my own sites), it is a job you have to manage daily. --Gryphon 13:23, 30 November 2006 (EST)
For that matter, how about replacing the Google search with the internal search? Or at least making it an option on the radio select? // DarkRyder / Gossipgossipicon / Trainergossipicon // 21:34, 2 December 2006 (EST)

Lore Status of Quest Target NPCs

I'm not sure if this has been addressed before, but... what's WoWWiki's policy in regards to the death of named NPC's in World of Warcraft? For example, I've come across several articles for NPC's that state the character has been killed by "an unknown but heroic and super sexy Alliance/Horde party". This doesn't seem particularly correct. Should these statements be replaced with "members of both the Horde and the Alliance are seeking this NPC's death" or something similar? I've noticed a few pages that stated something along these lines have changed, but I just wanted to get a more official confirmation before changing any others I might see.

There are a few specific cases that seem to be exceptions, like when a character is killed as part of a significant lore event enacted by a quest, for example, Taelan Fordring's death and the subsequent refounding of the Silver Hand by his father. Edwin VanCleef's death also seems canon, as the events following his kicking the bucket result in the need to go into the Stockades. Scarlet Commander Mograine is an interesting case, as there is both two quests to kill him, and an event where he is slain by the vengeful spirit of his father.

I guess what I'm asking is, how much evidence do we need before we can write off a WoW NPC as dead? Is it enought that one or both sides has a quest to kill them, or does there have to be an important lore event that is set off or involves their death?

--Mikaka 20:40, 29 November 2006 (EST)

My opinion is that "Canon" is what would be the case if there were no respawns and you only did quests (and in the optimal order). i.e. one kill of each boss, quest events only happen once, etc. So VanCleef is dead, the leaders of the Stockades revolt are dead, the Dark Iron emperor is dead, etc. When there's different quests for both sides, you have a bit of a problem, but you can resolve it the same way that WCII's opposing storylines were resolved. --Bobson 07:11, 30 November 2006 (EST)

New editions proposed for BC article

I've proposed two possible new editions for the Burning Crusade article. I've started a thread on the talk page detailing my reasoning and linking the two editions. Please comment!

The two new editions are here:

Please make your comments on the Burning Crusade talk page instead of here. You may also comment on my own talk page if you like. // Montagg (talk · contr)

Misdirect not needed?

Maelstrom’s_Wrath Shows that it's misdirected from Maelstrom's Wrath I think the first link needs to be deleted, since there are 2 pages with the same item/info. It gets misdirected when you try to click it from the set box on Maelstrom's Wrath That prob doesn't make very much sense, but if you play around with the links to the item, some of them go to the first link (which gets misdirected to the 2nd) and some of them go to the 2nd. So I don't see a need for the 1st page. ~~ Fusk /talk\16:06, 30 November 2006 (EST)

Same Problem with Renataki’s Charm of Beasts and Renataki's Charm of Beasts, should be fixed now--Pupapaya 09:37, 1 December 2006 (EST)

Analysis Template


What category should I add Rare trinket analysis and Epic trinket analysis? Armor category maybe? And also Rare relic analysis Epic relic analysis? Armor again? And also Rare necklace analysis Epic necklace analysis Armor again?  :)

Also, I think Rare thrown analysis should be deleted. Since there is only 1 rare throwing item in game, does it deserve it's own page+analysis?

~~ Fusk /talk\16:25, 30 November 2006 (EST)

There will be more good throwing weapons in TBC, so I'd keep it. If you're making a lot of analysis pages, just make a new category; [[Category:Analyses]] (I presume that's the plural of the word?). --Tinkerer 16:30, 30 November 2006 (EST)

Template:Elinksmob needs fix

I'd love if someone could either unprotect or edit this template so it used second level headings and looked more coherent in documents with proper formatting. // Montagg (talk · contr) 21:41, 30 November 2006 (EST)

Same for Template:Tlink --Adys 21:52, 30 November 2006 (EST)
Well, judging what happened to the servers recently, only an admin should do it and on offpeak hours. --Hobinheim 12:13, 1 December 2006 (EST)
Why is that? ~Bull3t (talk · contr · curr · wro · blog) // 13:59, 1 December 2006 (EST)
If it was left wide open, then regular users, even anons, could make crazy edits on it, bringing the server down again. I'm pretty sure bringing down the server = completely unwanted happening. I suggested offpeak hours because the server would still probably grind to a halt, even if it was one or two edits. --Hobinheim 14:07, 1 December 2006 (EST)
I see what you mean, it is protected because it is used in so many pages. ~Bull3t (talk · contr · curr · wro · blog) // 15:23, 1 December 2006 (EST)
No, editing them doesn't cause that much of a server issue as they don't use crazy if/else workarounds. The reason that they are locked is because the [edit] link for the External Links section links directly to the template and Wiki newborns unknowingly edit the template instead of the article. So instead of fixing the external link for just the article they set every article to the same external link. --Gryphon 16:58, 1 December 2006 (EST)
I was thinking, perhaps we should add some generic search links into these templates as well. Maybe even use some of those "crazy if/else workarounds" so that editors aren't required to add the item numbers. If the number for thott isn't given, make a link that includes the pagename as the search value on thott. Template:BC Itempage Placeholder has an example of what I'm thinking of. --Tekkub 19:45, 1 December 2006 (EST)
Hell, why not drop the numbers completely? If we can make search links to every major datamining site why even bother hunting down item numbers for direct links? Make our lives easier :) --Tekkub 19:49, 1 December 2006 (EST)
It doesn't really need to be permanently unprotected. The heading just needs to be edited, which any admin can do. // Montagg (talk · contr) 17:29, 3 December 2006 (EST)

analyze this

What's the purpose of all the Rare_axe_analysis pages.. 99% are just lists of all epic / rare items,, with no info. shouldn't the pages just be named "Rare_whatever" instad of "rare whatever analysis", some exceptions here n there. don't we have thottbot for a full list of all rare axes n such? i think daggers is the only page with any sort of "analysis" incorporated into it.  - CJ talk / cont  06:35, 1 December 2006 (EST)

Good question. They'd probably be better off as a Category:Rare_whatever as well, instead of a page that will have to be manually kept up to date. --Bobson 08:40, 1 December 2006 (EST)
It started with the Epic dagger analysis. I then created all the other pages, since it allowed for a nice list of items to track "outstanding" item pages. Dropping the "analysis" from the name-space is fine with me. --Dracomage 09:54, 1 December 2006 (EST)
Can always use Template:Stub/Item for outstanding pages.  - CJ talk / cont  10:46, 1 December 2006 (EST)
SO your proposing we change Rare axe analysis to something like Rare axes? My current wiki project is adding all items to the data base, and these are the lists that i'm using. I personaly don't see a reason for the "analysis" at the end, I'm all for changing it(if your proposing changing it like I showed) ~~ Fusk /talk\11:17, 1 December 2006 (EST)
I'd rather see it as a category, and just create stub pages for the ones that don't exist yet. The problem with any hardcoded list is simply "Who's going to keep it up to date?" If Blizzard adds a new epic axe, who's going to think to add it to the list? Sure, anyone can add it, but they have to notice it missing, first. If you're planning on adding details about the axes to the page, that's a different story, but straight lists should be categories. I think you can include the items from the category into a page other than the Category: page, if you want to do that. --Bobson 11:52, 1 December 2006 (EST)
Yeah should all be categorised, but other than the category I don't care about the page names. I might create a category now and move/rename the pages then? ~Bull3t (talk · contr · curr · wro · blog) // 12:35, 1 December 2006 (EST)
There are already categorys such as Category:Axes. The think I like about the analysis pages is it split it up between rare and epic. Do you mean making categorys like "Category:Rare axes" and "Category:Epic axes" and delete the overall axe category?~~ Fusk /talk\14:44, 1 December 2006 (EST)
That would be something very long to do that would not be that useful. A list is much easier to keep up, imho. --Adys 14:52, 1 December 2006 (EST)
May aswell just keep it as it is, but I think the Analysis Equipment bar needs a little cleaning, might do that. ~Bull3t (talk · contr · curr · wro · blog) // 15:04, 1 December 2006 (EST)
I say we leave it as is, and maybe someone can dig up some of the same type of "Analysis" info like in Rare dagger analysis. And we can just keep filling it in. Once I get the lists complete, I'll look into doing that.~~ Fusk /talk\15:21, 1 December 2006 (EST)
I'll reserve judgement until I see the analysis completed, but I still oppose non-automated lists on general Wiki principle. --Bobson 10:26, 4 December 2006 (EST)

External Links

For a long while now, I've always been updating inline quest links to use Template:questlong. But the absolute most tedious part of it is finding the correct Thottbot id for the quest. Then it dawned on me... If all of the quest pages in WoWWiki were up to the quality they're supposed to be, then it would be providing the same exact information as Thottbot, if not more in a more concise manner. Thottbot has a lot of chatter batter but the yellow posts are knowledge gold.

Also, it's really awkward if you think about it to have attributes for an item mentioned every time the item itself is mentioned (faction, level, thottbot id). The faction and level I understand, sort of, because it clarifies what it's linking to. But the Thottbot thing is just getting really tedious... So tempted to sick my bot on deleting all Thottbot numbers...

By the way, feel free to extend your thoughts in regards to External Links for other article types and other datamining sites. --Hobinheim 11:08, 2 December 2006 (EST)

Personally I don't like external links and as for the quests I prefer using Template:Tlink. In general, Thottbot's way to gather data is ridiculous and gets screwed after some time. I generally trust more allakhazam due to the fact they use the game IDs for the data they gather (Mobs and Items which thottbot doesnt use) and duplicate data generally does not exist, which also allows to link to more databases without having to search on all of them.
Eventually, WoWWiki would become as clear and complete as databases, but more accurate. That's my view on things anyways. --Adys 11:45, 2 December 2006 (EST)
That data for WoWWiki will always be obtained from the automated databases, WoWWiki will always be secondary for items. I personally wouldn't ever consider searching the Wiki for an item compared to any of the automated databases. --Gryphon 17:07, 3 December 2006 (EST)
I don't like Thottbot for exactly the same reasons, there are duplicates, it is a pain in the arse to read and there are some random things all over the place, I love WowHead, because of the way it displays data (the graphics and such are very sleek, smooth and sexy!) also the WowHead database is not datamined, which some of the databases are. Not sure whether everthing is, but most of the WowHead data is from the WowHead client and players. Allakhazam I like, but not as much as WowHead because it is getting a little like Thottbot, things are hard to read because they are smashed/squashed in with other un-useful things. WowHead is ownage! ~Bull3t (talk · contr · curr · wro · blog) // 12:38, 2 December 2006 (EST)
Aw, what's with all the thott hate? Without thott how would you know that the Bear Meat dropped by Hakkar in Stormwind City can be disenchanted into Nexus Crystal? I mean, that's vital information! ^^ --Tekkub 13:06, 2 December 2006 (EST)
WoWhead, Alla, and Thott all collect data the same way. Thott chooses to store it differently, not sure what you are inferring with saying it is datamined. I personally prefer Thottbot to the rest, but then I am a loyalist and usually side with originals rather than late comers. Not to mention the commentary is the real useful information, not the item detail; 2 years of data has 6 months of data beat hands down. --Gryphon 17:07, 3 December 2006 (EST)
Uhm the fact that Allakhazam is much more widely used than thottbot helps a fair Allakhazam's accuracy, and besides that for the new content (which is what players search for generally) both databases started at the same time. --Adys 17:18, 3 December 2006 (EST)
I don't remember Alla being around for beta, and from what public data there is, it would suggest to me that Thottbot is used much more widely. Where do you get your data that Alla is used more widely? --Gryphon 17:31, 3 December 2006 (EST)
Simply by looking at the number of kill records on mobs. Even though some players have multiple players using wowreader and data gets duplicated, it's still obvious more players are using Allakhazam rather than Thottbot. --Adys 17:55, 3 December 2006 (EST)
I'm a thottbot loyalist, but I'd like to stress the following point. What is it that these external sites provide that we don't, given that the articles are written to a high enough level of quality? i.e. we've duplicated the item's tooltip properly, and we know where mankirk's wife is. So, besides drop statistics, we could write proper naratives of where things are and the best places to get them. Without the fancy numbers. PS, I'm sour cuz I'm on probation on another forum for three days, but that's neither here nor there. =/ --Hobinheim 18:08, 3 December 2006 (EST)
I prefer alla or wowhead over thott. When I look at thott's data I see glaring errors that are obviously caused by their addon's detection methods. The item data (tooltip info) will always be right because this is mined from the item cache on your drive... but the enchanting and drop data, as well as mob locations are often way off or completely inappropriate (why do white items have DE info at all on thott?) Throw in the fact that ganeralized disenchant formulas are out there, I see no reason to even report DE info. No info is better than very inaccurate info IMO.
Anywho, enough ranting... looking at wowhead's client it is really no different from the other 2 sites. If thott were to patch up the bugs in their collection addon, reset their database (TBC seems the perfect time no?), and let it run for a week I bet their DB would be on par with alla and wowhead. --Tekkub 18:19, 3 December 2006 (EST)

Here's the game plan. I'll let this idea chill for a little before Hobinbot unleashes his fury.

  1. Deprecate the Thottbot ID section of Questlong. This may or may not effect pages that use it (possible bot activity)
  2. Convert all uses of QuestNoTB to Questlong (bot activity)
  3. Update documentation on Questlong and the Templates community page
  4. Deprecate QuestNoTB

--Hobinheim 13:11, 2 December 2006 (EST)

PS, if you could give me an actual hiyo!!! or NO!!!!! that would be very much appreciated. --Hobinheim 13:12, 2 December 2006 (EST)
To be honest I think you may aswell keep it, because it can sometimes be useful! That is a "NO!!!!!" from me, heh. ~Bull3t (talk · contr · curr · wro · blog) // 18:28, 02 December 2006 (GMT)
Yeah, I don't see where this is coming from... if you are going to remove all external links that's one thing, but just targetting one website? And yess, thott can grab some bad info from time to time, but nothing terribly wrong.--Stfrn 18:54, 2 December 2006 (EST)
It's coming from the fact that using questlong takes effort. If a quest was mentioned on three different pages using lots of advanced details besides the quest title, it would suck if you had to change one of them. Then you'd have to do it three times. Not saying that happens a lot, but it's data about the thing in question sitting outside the thing's article. And if we remove our dependence on external sources, we'll be more likely to make better pages for WoWWiki. Otherwise you could just keep referring to TB without ever using WoWWiki and then ending up with lots of dead/red pages. --Hobinheim 19:05, 2 December 2006 (EST)
I see what you mean, but I think it is a little late for removal now. ~Bull3t (talk · contr · curr · wro · blog) // 08:16, 03 December 2006 (GMT)
If thottbotid for quests is too painful, you could just feed the quest name into the quest search, which should either bring up a list of quests or go directly to it (depending on duplicates, really). There might be problems with how we specify quest names around here, but it should work for most things (?).
The general URL pattern for that is Starlightblunder 18:00, 3 December 2006 (EST)
My thoughts, in no particular order: The relative merits of the various database sites are not at issue. Wowwiki should be agnostic in terms of linking to external database sites - it's not our place to choose which people use, nor to direct traffic to particular sites. The current Template:Questlong includes a link to one database site as well as the wiki article, which seems both redundant and favouritist (is that a word?). Most (all?) quest articles should have a Template:Elinksquest section giving the external links anyway, so why not just link to our own quest description, and if people need more info they can follow the links there, to whichever database site they like? --Karrion 18:29, 3 December 2006 (EST)
I personally think we should link to searches on the other sites. This makes it very easy to add links, since in most cases the page name can be the search text. Just throw a call to the template in the page and you've got instant links. The page editor doesn't have to find links on the other sites, heck they don't even have to check the links if they don't want to. Seems the simplest solutio, no? --Tekkub 19:42, 3 December 2006 (EST)
Only problem with that is where quests share names with items or other quests, particularly where there are horde/alliance versions or multiple steps in a chain with the same name, it could be confusing to be presented with a list and have to work out which one you want. --Karrion 20:14, 3 December 2006 (EST)
My personal approach to having quests of the same name is to just load them all up on the same page. Quest articles are already anemic. And, quests of the same name are related to one another anyway. Just write an article for the entire quest line on one page and just use the questbox multiple times. --Hobinheim 21:50, 3 December 2006 (EST)
For the wowwiki articles, for sure. My comment was in regard to linking to external sites using the quest name as a search parameter. --Karrion 23:30, 3 December 2006 (EST)

So, step one is happening. QuestLong won't point to Thottbot anymore. --Hobinheim 00:21, 7 December 2006 (EST)

BC quests

I can't seem to find any quests with a BC tag on them. are the beta testers putting in quests? Does Thottbot or Ala have any BC quests? I'm just doing some research, and need to find as many BC quests as possible. ~~ Fusk /talk\12:52, 4 December 2006 (EST)

Looks like there are two on the Wiki, Archmage Vargoth & City of Light. Thottbot has data here. --Gryphon 13:05, 4 December 2006 (EST)
WowHead has a collection of Burning Crusade quests here, we need to start adding them to the Wiki though. ~Bull3t (talk · contr · curr · wro · blog) // 18:23, 04 December 2006 (GMT)

warrior stances

I am a level 35 warrior and just realized that I do not have defensive stance. I went to trainers in orgrimar, thunder bluff and UC and none of the trainers have a quest for me to obtain to get the stance. Is this a linked quest and where in the world do I get the quest? Please help, Hard for me to get accepted as a tank anywhere without Defensive stance.

--Savejim 07:17, 5 December 2006 (EST)

From Defensive Stance "Gained: Level 10, quest from Warrior Trainer." If it's like the other Lv10 ability quests this means you need to head to the trainer that's located at the first town with an inn in your race's starting zone. --Tekkub 08:21, 5 December 2006 (EST)

Talent and Build Pages

Oh well, looks like it will be time again to revist each class's Build page, let alone Talent pages. Question for future major changes. Is there a way to build pages not for viewing? This way something can be built and brought in when the change it reflects occurs? --Sharlin 06:04, 6 December 2006 (EST)

Just build the page elsewhere, like in your user namespace. User:Sharlin/Necromonk talents --Hobinheim 07:58, 6 December 2006 (EST)
Can we start replacing the tables with the new one? [| Sample BeastMaster Table]

Sharlin 06:54, 7 December 2006 (EST)

I would immediately suggest template-izing the page before proceeding. --Hobinheim 08:08, 7 December 2006 (EST)
I have no idea as to what that means. Sharlin 08:26, 7 December 2006 (EST)
The talent table you propose is just one of many. They should all look the same. The talents within the page itself all look the same. They should all use the same code, without actually including markup related to tables/layout/color. Each talent should look something like the following, and nothing more
{{talentrow1|Wolverine Style|30 Beast Mastery|Gives target adamantium claws}}

--Hobinheim 10:48, 7 December 2006 (EST)

The page I created is a copy of the one it replaces. The "template" and my new page are identical, I didn't introduce anything new as far as editting. If anything tables just annoy me when it comes to updating them.

[original ] [new]

Sharlin 11:51, 7 December 2006 (EST)

Are we gunna delete all the suggested builds? since most of them no longer apply. Let me know if I can delete all old ones, and start working on writing the new Hunter ones.~~ Fusk /talk\12:56, 7 December 2006 (EST)

I created a couple talent templates (like Hobinheim suggested) that we can use to build the talent tables:

Using those you get (without having to mess with all the table code):

Template:Talentheader Template:Talentrow1 Template:Talentrow2 Template:Talentrow1 |}

Key thing is to make sure you include the |} at the end. That way it doesn't mess up any pages it gets embedded in. - ClydeJr 13:04, 7 December 2006 (EST)

WoWWiki performance problems

I finally got through to Rustak and he says he thinks he's fixed the performance problems everyone has probably been noticing. He's been pretty busy, so he hasn't visited WoWWiki recently and his monitoring scripts were not working right. --Fandyllic (talk) 4:17 PM PST 6 Dec 2006

Well, at least you got through to him, just need to wait until he is free to edit some things, such as the logo. ~Bull3t (talk · contr · curr · wro · blog) // 15:29, 07 December 2006 (GMT)
Get through to him again and make him get more admins in with root access. There's plenty of things Mikk could fix on his own (CSS, logo) but he needs access damnit! --Tekkub 10:43, 7 December 2006 (EST)
Not to mention apache restarts when the monitor scripts aren't reacting...   --Mikk (T) 10:58, 7 December 2006 (EST)
Yeah, I vote Mikk to be root! Hehe. ~Bull3t (talk · contr · curr · wro · blog) // 18:18, 07 December 2006 (GMT)

Changed content Cat?

The Wiki has a Category:Added content.. Maybe we need a Changed or Update content Cat??? Thinking of the recent Honor changes... --Dracomage 10:50, 7 December 2006 (EST)

I actually think that'se just "added", too. --Tinkerer 10:52, 7 December 2006 (EST)
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