Pictures not showing up

All of the pictures on this site are not showing up. Whenever i try to direct link to me i get this error: Forbidden You don't have permission to access /Image_talk:Proposed_WoWWiki_icon.png on this server. Kelex 01:47, 14 November 2006 (EST)

I asked this a while ago. The reason is that you need to have the "www" in the url. Try going to as opposed to -- Suspchaos 06:32, 22 November 2006 (EST)


I'm starting to work on getting more items in and updated (Mostly weps) And on all of the existing pages it has the in-game icon on the top left of the page. How do I figure out the link for the one that I need? I'm new to this, and I don't even know if this is where I ask for help >.<
---Fusk 12:29, 23 October 2006

Start here: WowWiki:WoW Icons! We're still in the process of organizing everything but that should be an excellent start. Or, if you're feeling bold, start at the top level Icon Category: Category:WoW_Icons. Lastly, we're following the exact file naming conventions that Blizzard (and thusly, Thott & Allakhazam, etc use) so if you know the filename, try to implement it with a .png or .jpg extention. --Tusva 15:15, 23 October 2006 (EDT)
Use jpg icons only if you are forced to, .png is what we're currently converting to :) -- Kirkburn (talk) 18:13, 23 October 2006 (EDT)

Ah thank you very much! Will get to work asap. --Fusk 1:32, 23 October 2006

Guild/Server Progression on Wowwiki

Quick question: is it ok to use wowwiki to host the equivalent of the "server progression" thread on wowwiki? I'm refering to how many servers have a "Server Progression" thread on the official blizzard forums, but there always seems to be problems with them not being updated frequently, the maintainer loses interest and someone else has to unsticky the old one and start a new one, etc etc. Is this sort of content allowed on wowwiki, or is it discouraged because of all the constant updates that would be required by the various guilds. Thanks!

EDIT: I should know better, and I should have just googled around for it... judging from this page it's ok for this kind of use for wowwiki.

--Boldog 01:12, 25 October 2006 (EDT)

Somehow, I don't know. When creating Server:Bloodhoof Europe, I watched out not to create unnecessary "search" pages, by making Server:Bloodhoof Europe/Guilds. You could easily do guild progression in the same way (for example, Server:Silvermoon/Guild Progression) as the page you linked already has a relink to the main page (Silvermoon). Still though, as far as I know there are no policies on this specifically. --Tinkerer 03:42, 25 October 2006 (EDT)
Using wowwiki for server progression is totally okay. If you want to put it in the main server page, that's okay. If you want to make it a subpage, that's okay, too.   --Mikk (T) 07:22, 25 October 2006 (EDT)
Beh, as proven again, Mikk actually USES that +5% intellect racial ^^ --Tinkerer 09:49, 25 October 2006 (EDT)

Interesting screenshots

I have some screenshots of secret flying mounts. Taken by myself Anyone know a spot for me to locate them at? Game errors? Screenshots page?

Heh, sorry to disappoint you, but that's game errors. A bug makes it look that another player is still on a gryphon (while he or she is not). Looks funny, though :) --Tinkerer 15:55, 25 October 2006 (EDT)
Actually, I know people that have gotten stuck on gryphons and have been able to ride around on them.
"Screenshot of the day" kind of things sound kinda fun to me though. Perhaps we ought to set something along those lines up?   --Mikk (T) 16:14, 25 October 2006 (EDT)
Or a, you know "Funny Screenshots" article? ;) Sounds.. fun?--Tinkerer 16:16, 25 October 2006 (EDT)

Warlock pages

Text moved to Talk:Warlock. More relevant there. // Montagg (talk · contr) 17:35, 27 October 2006 (EDT)

In-Game Knowledge Base

Is there a beta tester among us? :) I'm eager to know information (screenshot etc) about the new In-Game Knowledge Base.

Yes, me. I'll look into it :-) --Tinkerer 15:46, 28 October 2006 (EDT)
Okay, found it. It's less nice than it may sound - it's just an in-game WoW FAQ, with answers on questions like 'What to do if I've been hacked?" or "I have problems patching". Still, not bad. Screenshots incoming. --Tinkerer 05:32, 29 October 2006 (EST)
Last edit: [[Image:Knowledgebase.JPG]]--Tinkerer 05:36, 29 October 2006 (EST)
Very last edit (;p): It's here: In-Game Knowledge Base

Trading Cards

As the Trading Card game of WoW has just been released, I see articles of cards coming this way. - Templates need to be made? - Policy? Just wondering :)

--Tinkerer 15:48, 28 October 2006 (EDT)

Let's just not. Leprechaun is bad enough.--Aeleas 17:57, 28 October 2006 (EDT)
OMG and I was trying to make a fanfic ... Official WoW is lame enough oO--K ) (talk) 18:19, 28 October 2006 (EDT)
Hey, if it's part of Warcraft, it's part of Warcraft. I do not suggest we spend our time collecting all of the TGC info, however - only very 'special' cards seems best. -- Kirkburn (talk) 20:18, 28 October 2006 (EDT)
How 'special?' Hero cards? Epics? Loot cards? :P Ambelen 23:14, 5 November 2006 (EST)

Has anyone seen this spreadsheet for Jewelcrafting?

click here It shows alot of jewelcrafting recipes,disenchants and alot other stuff i can't really specify. Just make sure you look at it becuse it could be very usefull.--SuperShammy 02:51, 29 October 2006 (EST) (you may have to create a googel account to look at it but it takes less than a minute to do.)

See the Jewelcrafting page. At the bottom is a link to the skill to 300 page. --Dracomage 06:21, 29 October 2006 (EST)

How to get started

Hello Im wartank of lightnings blade (eu). Im wondering if somebody could help me get started with wowwiki :). You see im quite noobish and im not the best writer as you've already might have guessed, and nope i dont know how to make nice documents frames and fancy articles and use all the provided tools. I've always liked and prefer'd wowwiki over other information sites since its quite simple, relible, accurate and detailed. Also i would like to say you guys at wowwiki are some of the most sincere and brilliant writers found within the vast WoW community :) doing a great job. Wowwiki has provided me with vital and detailed information through out my gameplay of WOW and it would'int have gone as good without alot of hours readthrough of Wowwiki articles. so i feel its my duty to contribute and help you guys as much as i can just as your articles helped me :D. Ive got a vast info about Warcraft-lore. SO back to the point it would be nice if you guys helped me get started by giving hints and guides on how to improve my contributions other then just writing minor edits.


--Assasinator 09:56, 29 October 2006 (EST)

Minor edits do more than you may think ;-) Lots of tiny make big.
Still, you might check out your talk page (it has the welcome flyer on it which always helps), and WoWWiki:Template, and the Community portal. That'd be a good start. --Tinkerer 10:04, 29 October 2006 (EST)

Mapmaking program/addon

Hey :-) I am currently looking for a program automatically creating a png or a tga of full WoW maps (1002x668, example). I am able without any problems (even tho its slow) to do the full maps manually, but as soon as the map is not a 12*256x256 but has little pieces for every zone, the work becomes extremely tedious and, attempting to get full archives of the maps in the BC beta course, the work will be extremely long if I want to do it on all the 11 new maps every time they get updated. Mmh, hope I wasnt too unclear >< :-P --Adys 10:37, 29 October 2006 (EST)

Personally, I use Cartographe. About it's only downside is it doesn't have tlocs or drop rates. I believe this utilises the MPQ tools to get the info out of the data on your install. I've heard this doesn't work for WoW 1.12 anymore, though, and nor for BC Beta. But I cannot confirm either - the fact that Cartographe still works makes me think there must be an update out there somewhere ;) --Normal 10:46, 04 November 2006 (AEDST)
Nope, not what I was looking for =/ The in-game world maps are divided into 12 pieces of 256x256 (which isn't a problem to remake), but the evolved world maps (with zones to discovers etc) have an empty background of 12 pieces + many (up to 25 sometimes) bigger or smaller pieces depending on maps. You can see examples of the maps I recomposed manually already here, rest is purely impossible to do manually. --Adys 18:54, 3 November 2006 (EST)

Parsing slash command for parameters, arguments

I hope this isn't a common question. I've searched google for about an hour with no success.

I'm trying to pass multiple arguments via a slash command for my homemade addon. using the code...

for word in string.gfind(msg, "%w+","[+-]?%d+") do



I can iterate through the words, as in... /ht this is a test -100.34 100.34 10 resulting in... this is a test 100 34 100 34 10

but the problem is, the "-" and the decimal gets lost, and the decimal acts like a separator. I want to get... this is a test -100.34 100.34 10

Could someone suggest a pattern I can use that will give that result?

Thank you!


Unfortunately lua's pattern matching doesn't have alteration, so you can't ask for things that match %w+ and also your number pattern at the same time. Your best bet would be to split into whitespace-separated tokens with for word in string.gfind(msg, "%S+") do ... end and then check the individual tokens for validity inside the loop.--Karrion 23:51, 29 October 2006 (EST)

Warrior PvP Strategies

The warrior pvp strategies page and the warrior page "How to kill a..." are extremely out of date. Under the warrior pvp strategies page it doesn't even list pummel as a major move (pummel being the main spell interrupt move) and the "How to kill a..." page makes reference to patches coming out in 2004. These are only major things I noticed, both pages are out of date to the point where the tips they give are no longer helpful. I have a 60 warrior I am very fond of pvping with and another 40 warrior I am leveling to 60 right now on another server and I am willing to go through and make changes but I don't have much experience writing on wiki's. This job also sounds like it is way too much for me. --Kibb1es 00:48, 30 October 2006 (EST)

Problem is, we kinda need someone with a warrior with PvP experience to do it ;) *nudge, nudge*   I for one wouldn't mind going through and editing for correctness, but I wouldn't have the first clue where to start. I don't have a warrior, and I don't PvP much at all.   --Mikk (T) 01:38, 30 October 2006 (EST)
I have a 60 Warrior that hit rank 4, but I am close to useless at PvP ;). --Dracomage 09:41, 30 October 2006 (EST)
Put a {{[[Peerreview]]}} on it. --Tinkerer 10:21, 30 October 2006 (EST)

500/1000/etc clubs? How?

Moved in from Mikk's Post-It®

Hey Mikk, was browsing around and found the clubs, 500, 1000, 2500, 5000 edits, and was wondering how I see how many edits I have done? I know how to view contributions, but it does not number them, thanks in advance! --Bull3t 14:55, 30 October 2006 (EST)

i was wondering the same thing because lately i would just count them.--SuperShammy 16:50, 30 October 2006 (EST)

Count. /evillaughter (No really, just make the list show 500, and if you can load 3 pages on that you have made at least 1000 contributions, etc..)--Tinkerer 14:57, 30 October 2006 (EST)
So, then how do I count 500 edits? --Bull3t 14:58, 30 October 2006 (EST)
Looking at your contributions page, then clicking on 500 listing, it does not make (Older 500) clickable. That means that there isn't a next page, and thus you have less than 501 contributions. See? Easy ^^ --Tinkerer 15:00, 30 October 2006 (EST)
I see, ok thanks! Oh and who decides whether someone should be part of each club, or do you just self-nominate? Also, I could just copy and paste the whole thing into Word then use the line count function, hehe! --Bull3t 16:30, 30 October 2006 (EST)
I suppose that'd make more lines, though ;-) And to your question: If you got so and so much edits, then you got them. Nothing anybody can change about that. Of course, you shouldn't go spamming useless edits just to get up to some "club". --Tinkerer 16:37, 30 October 2006 (EST)
Counting your contributions page isn't completely accurate, though, is it? It doesn't seem to show edits made to pages which have since been deleted/merged/moved... --DarkRyder 15:03, 31 October 2006 (EST)
Of course not. But then again, you shouldn't go looking at your contributions page after each edit.. I guess you'll notice it when you have to look at it, and, well, counting pages can be a rule of the thumb. --Tinkerer 15:18, 31 October 2006 (EST)
Huh? Why would you look at your contrib page after each edit? Wouldn't you already know what you just edited?  :-) --DarkRyder 16:12, 31 October 2006 (EST)
Short term memory loss?
...What were we talking about again? ::Checks contribs.:: // Montagg (talk · contr) 00:20, 15 November 2006 (EST)


I'm looking for the font that Blizzard uses for the headings at the official World of Warcraft homepage, for example this one: [1] I already tried services like WhatTheFont and Identifont with no success. Any ideas about the name of that font, and whether it is publicly available? --Teomyr 10:03, 31 October 2006 (EST)

Yeah, that is a very sexy font, but if you do find the font you will have to find out what font styling has been used aswell, such as Gradient, Stroke, etc. to acheive this you would probably be best off finding a PSD image file of the text from somewhere... --Bull3t 10:42, 31 October 2006 (EST)
The official World of Warcraft Fansite Kit contains some PSD files; the file templates/texttemplate.psd is very similiar to the image I linked.
On the WhatTheFont forums, I found a link to the font "Folkard". Couldn't try it, though, since it's a commercial font. --Teomyr 10:48, 31 October 2006 (EST)
I have the Folkard font on my machine. Go to for the free font download. -- Xaandr 14:22, 31 October 2006 (EST)
Nice! You think that is the one used? I will check it out. --Bull3t 15:04, 31 October 2006 (EST)
It's the one I use for various things and it seems to mirror the WoW font quite a bit. Check out my character's page and my guild's page for examples I made using the font. -- Xaandr 15:46, 31 October 2006 (EST)
Yeah, that does look similar, thanks for posting it, I will use it when I can. --Bull3t 10:48, 1 November 2006 (EST)

using lua to concatenate text

Ok the subject line is a little hard to understand...but I have no other way to describe this. This is dealing with scripting a macro in lua. I want to designate text using a variable lh='Lesser Heal'. Then when I have to cast the spell CastSpellByName(lh'(Rank 1)') I can add this variable plus the rank....I guess I'm asking to concatenate the text, but I'm not sure how to do this in Lua script. Thanks for helping in advance.

--Moonpup1 11:58, 31 October 2006 (EST)

CastSpellByName(lh..' (Rank 1)') should do the job. --Teomyr 12:16, 31 October 2006 (EST)


I've noticed a couple of the more well-traveled pages have indentations after each major section, further intending the text and sections below it. The pages are scattered, but the one I noticed first was the Blood elf article. In fact, a couple people had removed the formatting, but Kikburn added back in a couple times. We discussed the issue a little on the talk page.

I was wondering if there's an official policy on this, or at least a majority understanding. As I stated in my comments on the talk page, I think this formatting style looks pretty bad. Mostly just unprofessional. The fact that it has to be added in manually makes it worse. Ontop of that, it doesn't seem to be standardized across all articles, so it's kind of surprising when you first encounter it. It also indirectly increases the space the articles take up in the browser because the text has less room as a result of the indentation. Ultimately, I find it aesthetically unpleasing.

I could go on, and there are just as many subjective reasons the other way why it's good, so my opinion is just one. However, I'd like to know what the general opinion is about this formatting style so that we can either: 1) Include it in the CSS for the entire wiki, so it's standard across all articles, OR 2) Put articles that need the formatting into a category so editors can go through and manually enter it, OR 3) Get rid of the formatting in its entirety. // Montagg (talk · contr) 23:24, 31 October 2006 (EST)

Another example is the Newbie Guide. // Montagg (talk · contr) 23:25, 31 October 2006 (EST)

Articles looking like that are basically entirely my fault. I find it much easier to read myself, and I'm using a "3%" indent which means that it'll get smaller on browsers that have less horizontal space.
I agree that it's a problem that there is now a mix of styles.
  --Mikk (T) 03:09, 1 November 2006 (EST)
First time I noticed it. Definitely looks betetr visually. --Dracomage 09:26, 1 November 2006 (EST)
If it's agreed on that it should be standard, the best option is probably to add that to the styles for second level headings. This keeps it standard across every page, and we don't have to hire a hundred Chinese kids to manually add it to every long page. Personally, I think it's overkill to use it on any other heading levels since it just continues to indent the content, which would distract the eye from something like a block quote or a list which needs the indentation to off-set it from the rest of the text. The differing heading sizes should be enough to communicate level of importance. // Montagg (talk · contr) 11:42, 1 November 2006 (EST)
Yay or nay on this one? // Montagg (talk · contr) 13:55, 5 November 2006 (EST)
I don't have strong feelings whether we adopt the indented style or not, but definitely feel that it should be a global thing, both for consistency, and to keep unneeded code out of wiki pages so that they remain easily editable by new users. I would a agree with Montag that a single level of indentation is the maximum we should use.
Some articles begin with the top level heading '=', while the majority use '=='. That's something that should be standardized regardless, but would be made more noticeable by a global change to the second-level style.
What process would be involved in changing the global style?--Aeleas 14:19, 5 November 2006 (EST)
1. Modify CSS and mail to Rustak
2. Wait anywhere between 1 day and 3 months.
3. Fix pages.
  --Mikk (T) 14:23, 5 November 2006 (EST)
Anyone with l33t CSS skeelz do this yet, or should I learn some real fast? // Montagg (talk · contr) 00:24, 15 November 2006 (EST)

Unable to login to the World of Warcraft Europe forum

I was wondering whether anyone else has this problem. I type my username and password into the provided boxes on the WoW Europe forum, press login and it just seems to refresh the page, not logging me in. I contacted Account Billing/Support and they basically said that they cannot help me further with this issue and must contact them through phone or post. I can access the game and website with the same login information, but just not the forum. Anyone get this same problem, or know why it is happening? --Bull3t 12:40, 1 November 2006 (EST)

I saw on the US forums a notice about taking the forums down for maintenance yesterday. It's possible that they also took down the Euro forums and haven't brought them back up again. // Montagg (talk · contr) 12:43, 1 November 2006 (EST)
Could be, although I haven't been able to login to in for a little while now, thanks for the help, anyone else? --Bull3t 15:21, 1 November 2006 (EST)
I can login fine :[ Try removing your cookies, or something? --Tinkerer 15:34, 1 November 2006 (EST)
Tried that and it doesn't work, also tried login in on a different PC and tried login in as my friends account, nothing worked... Strange. --Bull3t 16:02, 1 November 2006 (EST)
Well, just tried logging in a few seconds ago and it worked, it seems after they had updated it for Hallow's End I could not login, but now that they have reverted it back to normal, I can. --Bull3t 10:39, 2 November 2006 (EST)
Okay, so it isn't related to Hallow's End at all, I just tried logging in today and it doesn't work again, what is going on?! --Bull3t 12:35, 3 November 2006 (EST)
No idea O_o Contact Blizzard, maybe? --Tinkerer 12:52, 3 November 2006 (EST)
What is the best way to do that, without phoning them? --Bull3t (talk · contr) 04:13, 4 November 2006 (EST)
E-mailing. The other option is walking to Paris. --Tinkerer 04:14, 4 November 2006 (EST)
Maybe I should email them then, I think walking would give me hypothermia in this weather... --Bull3t (talk · contr) 04:16, 4 November 2006 (EST)
Ok, this is the first time I've tried to add info to the Wiki, so I hope it works! Bull3t, are you by any chance an NTL broadband customer? I have had problems logging in to the WoW forums as well, but I've now solved the issue. It's too long to explain fully here, but it's caused by your ISP (mainly NTL but possibly others too) sending HTTP and HTTPS traffic through different routes. Just go to the WoW Europe technical support forum (no need to log in!), and do a search for "proxy", and you'll see an article explaining the cause and how to change the proxy settings in your browser to allow you to log in. Hope that helps. --Saiph2 07:38, 27 November 2006 (EST)
I'm going to try to add a direct link to the article I mentioned above - once again I hope it works! --Saiph2 21:15, 28 November 2006 (EST)

Server-wide crafter list

This might be similar to the earlier guild progression question which is why I thought I'd post it here.

On the WoW forum for my realm, we have a stickied thread that lists crafters and the various patterns, recipes, schematics, etc. they know. Would it be appropriate to create a similar list for a realm's Wiki page (or perhaps, a seperate page just for crafters attached to the main realm page)?

Instead of listing the crafter and the things he knows, the pattern, etc. would be listed and then all of those who knew it would be listed below. And I would think it'd be limited to those patterns, recipes, etc. that are not taught by trainers, as listing those as well would make the list a lot bigger than need be.

Would this be something worthwhile or is it out of the scope of the Wiki?

-- Xaandr 16:54, 1 November 2006 (EST)

Yeah, these exist already for many servers. They can be in any format you wish. --Gryphon 17:06, 1 November 2006 (EST)

Examples include:

  • Server:Durotan
  • Doomhammer Horde Craftables - badly named though, should be Server:Doomhammer/Horde_Craftables
Great! Thanks for the examples. :) ---> Xaandr 20:32, 1 November 2006 (EST)
So, all server-specific article should be under the server article? That is, Server:X/Y. // Montagg (talk · contr) 17:05, 2 November 2006 (EST)

Blizzard's New WoW Encyclopedia

So i've had 2 accounts banned from the official WoW forums today for comparing Blizzards new encyclopedia to this because they feel bad? --Ganoosh 13:38, 2 November 2006 (EST)

How does it compare? Some static, non community driven, pages with information just like the whole rest of the site. They have information all over their site about WoW, should they not because there is WoWWiki? --Gryphon 13:51, 2 November 2006 (EST)
Two totally different ideas: WoWWiki is a gaming resource first, and a lore resource second or even third. This encyclopedia is purely lore, and will actually work to increase the value of our own lore pages. Heavily. Also, this finally puts to rest the War of the Ancients debate. --Ragestorm 17:12, 2 November 2006 (EST)
Alright fair enough, But still Why The account bannings? --Ganoosh
What exactly were you posting? And how much? I would be suprised if it was something petty. --Gryphon 17:17, 2 November 2006 (EST)
Thread title was something along the lines of - "Blizzard's New Encyclopedia" and inside I wrote - "Why does Blizzard feel the need to create a encyclopedia for WoW when there ia already an established website for such content that has haf much work put into it". --Ganoosh
I would have imagined it would have been quite a bit more than simply that. I doubt anyone here would ever be able to answer why you got banned for that. --Gryphon 17:27, 2 November 2006 (EST)
People usually don't like when you say their hard work is for nothing, I guess.--Tinkerer 02:35, 3 November 2006 (EST)

I doubt you needed to be banned for that, but the fact remains that WoWWiki is not affiliated with Blizzard. --Ragestorm 17:32, 2 November 2006 (EST)

I usually spend much time on Lore artciles, but these ones make me puke ...--K ) (talk) 17:44, 2 November 2006 (EST)
????--Ragestorm 18:47, 2 November 2006 (EST)
Are they somehow different than other Blizzard lore writings? --Gryphon 18:48, 2 November 2006 (EST)
I read a couple of the articles they're extremely simplistic and very vague overviews of whatever topic they cover. However, they serve the useful purpose of containing official statements from Blizzard, so we can use these in Lore articles as citations, if needed. // Montagg (talk · contr) 13:54, 5 November 2006 (EST)


Since some pages are getting long (read WoWWiki_talk:Village_pump) and contains information related but not real usefull (Saurfang page), it would be appreciative if we had a way to hide topics in articles. Maybe they could even be cookie'd but, i really don't like searching through 20+ topics to find the one i want. --User:Jures 03 November 2006 09:41 (UTC)

Yeah, would be a very good idea, and wouldn't be hard because the Table of Contents for pages has a hide feature. Not sure about making it cookied, but nice idea. --Bull3t (talk · contr) 04:17, 4 November 2006 (EST)

Some pages to delete

I have found sine pages that should be deleted Wormhead, The Dodger of Sheep, and Prison of the Universe. They are uncanon, and rather than being mentioned as part of warcraft lore should be mentioned as Blizzard scenario maps, like the other scenario map pages. I nominated them for deletion and talked on the discussion page but no-one found out so I decided to post here. Saimdusan

The reason noone's reacted to them is because you didn't start deletion votes. See Help:Deleting pages.
  --Mikk (T) 06:57, 3 November 2006 (EST)
That, and the deletion marker has only been up for.. +- 2 hours. CJ 07:35, 3 November 2006 (EST)

Implementing WW:PA

Would I be overstepping my bounds as J. Random WoWWikian if I started moving the character/user pages I see in the main namespace to User: (as per the naming policy)? --DarkRyder 09:58, 3 November 2006 (EST)

Got my vote anyway. if you're bored enough ;) CJ 10:00, 3 November 2006 (EST)
Nope. The policy specifically says that joe random wowwikians are supposed to :-)   --Mikk (T) 10:19, 3 November 2006 (EST)
I started doing a bit of it, but you'll have to watch out not to move pages that are meant to be edited by more people. Also, it's HUGE. --Tinkerer 10:25, 3 November 2006 (EST)
Believe me, I fully appreciate the scope. :-) I just run across them often enough that I though I might as well do some good when I seem them. --DarkRyder 11:24, 3 November 2006 (EST)
I pick out the ones that get newly poted on the Recent Changes and, when I'm in the mood, move some of the list. It's, like said, a huge task though :-) --Tinkerer 11:34, 3 November 2006 (EST)
Got to start somewhere. Thanks for highlighting one of Mikk's more obscure policies again! ;) --Dracomage 14:17, 3 November 2006 (EST)
Oi! That one's totally not my idea! :-)   --Mikk (T) 18:11, 3 November 2006 (EST)
Just wait until I propose migrating guild pages to server sub-pages once we're done with this one!  ;-) --DarkRyder 19:28, 3 November 2006 (EST)

Self-reverted Vandalism?

Is this some kind of Wiki spam, or what? A user makes obnoxious changes to some high-profile page, then immediately changes it back. I've seen it several times before, and it just happened to The Burning Crusade [2]. Anyone know what's up with this kind of thing? --DarkRyder 13:14, 3 November 2006 (EST)

I guess it's spammers who're trying to stop spamming, but can't lose the habit? ;) I guess it's weird, yes, but as long as they change it back it's not really a big problem :/ --Tinkerer 14:28, 3 November 2006 (EST)
This has happened before as someone adding in a lot of spma, and only removing most of it, so that there are a few slightly hidden links that go unseen. Might want to do a diff of the last few revisions to see if they left anything at all.--Stfrn 15:21, 3 November 2006 (EST)
In all three of the cases I've seen, they really did remove everything (I was suspicious, too, so I checked). My guess is that they're just trying to get their username listed in the change logs or some such. --DarkRyder 19:20, 3 November 2006 (EST)

Time for another icon vote

WoWWiki:Proposed icon

It's on.


  --Mikk (T) 18:11, 3 November 2006 (EST)

*sees people fetching boxing gloves* --Tinkerer 04:47, 4 November 2006 (EST)
Smexy! I want to vote for two, as they are just as good as one another, do we only have 1 vote? ~Bull3t (talk · contr · curr · wro · blog) // 14:57, 9 November 2006 (EST)
Scrap that! Just seen what is written is big blod letters, with an exclamation mark... ~Bull3t (talk · contr · curr · wro · blog) // 14:59, 9 November 2006 (EST)

BC Item Stub?

The Category for Item Stubs is kinda big, and the Burning Cursade Item Stubs can't really be expanded yet, so wouldn't a Sub-Category "Stub/Item/BC" be usfull to sort them out? Template could be {{Stub/Item/BC}} with almost the same content as the usual Item/Stub template, but with a Sub-Category to the Category:Item stubs --Pupapaya 18:08, 4 November 2006 (EST)

Perhaps. But we're using {{Stub/BC}} for all BC related stuff at the moment - and beta testers are filling them out.   --Mikk (T) 18:23, 4 November 2006 (EST)
Well right now Item Stubs from BC Items are randomly marked with {{BC}}, {{Stub/BC}} and {{Stub/Item}}. At least the {{BC}} should be used on all pages, and {{Stub/BC}} and {{Stub/Item}} could (and should in my opinion) be combined to {{Stub/Item/BC}}. Same could be done with other Stubs. I made an example for that new Stub here User:Pupapaya/Template:Stub/Item/BC --Pupapaya 05:52, 8 November 2006 (EST)


After adding a [Podcasting], I suggest creating a podcast category to seperate it from community sites.

--SaudiGamer 03:48, 5 November 2006 (EST)

Image categories

Just an idea, wondering whether it'd be good categorizing Mob/NPC and Zone screenshots under Category:Instance:... or Category:Zone:...? Any thoughts ? --Adys 06:54, 6 November 2006 (EST)

That'd make the Category list go crazy, I think. One article in the list about a specific link is enough, an extra link to its image isn't really needed :p --Tinkerer 09:04, 6 November 2006 (EST)
Possibly as a subcategory imo, e.g. "Category:Instance:Mountain of Whoopass Images"   --Mikk (T) 09:31, 6 November 2006 (EST)

Item tooltips in other pages

I am very interested in everything about the Dungeon Set 2 quest series and bosses. At the moment, I'm trying to improve the pages for the summoned bosses by adding their special item drops to each article (and maybe create one big overview of all of the nice rewards).

Inv chest cloth 48
[Ironweave Robe]
Binds when picked up
Chest Cloth
219 Armor
+24 Stamina
+15 Intellect
Durability 80 / 80
Classes: Priest, Mage, Warlock
Requires Level 58
Set: Ironweave Battlesuit (8)
I thought it might be a good idea to display those special items as icons with their corresponding tooltip, similiar to those which are already on many items' pages. Since mouse-over tooltips are not possible, I came up with the tooltip you can see to the left. I tried to keep it small, yet allow for a quick and readable overview of the item's stats.

Do you think such tooltips are a good idea, or do they "bloat" a page too much? I already added some to the article Jarien and Sothos, but I'm not comfortable with their size and would like to switch to the smaller version you can see here.

Good idea or not necessary? Back to the old "Lvl 58 219 AC, +24 Sta, +15 Int, 1/8 Ironweave Battlesuit set." or not?

Should I make a template for it? --Teomyr 12:27, 6 November 2006 (EST)

Without taking anything else into account whatsoever, I'd just thought I'd say that the look of the tooltip itself is totally OK to me.   --Mikk (T) 15:00, 6 November 2006 (EST)
The tooltip looks very nice, my only concern would be having the same information duplicated in multiple articles, thus opening the possibility of them getting out of sync by a stray edit. A way to combat this would possibly be to start introducing individual templates for items, though that would significantly add to the amount of articles present. Hmmmm. --Tusva 15:13, 6 November 2006 (EST)
Yes, that was one of my concerns too, and I don't see any simple solution to this problem either :-/
Maybe create a local template for each item, for example {{:Ironweave Robe/Tooltip}}, and include it in both the item's article and the link tooltips? I don't know if this would bloat the wiki, however. Do local templates count as articles at all?
Wowhead has announced XML feeds for syndication of item data. Wouldn't that be an option for WoWWiki? --Teomyr 15:26, 6 November 2006 (EST)
It is possible by using the template corresponding to the item page name to reproduce the page. Noinclude tags can be put around what is not a part of the tooltip, and doing so will link only the tooltip when using for example the template {{Netherwind Robes}}. This won't work with how the item pages are, it needs much more normalization to do so.. but it is possible this way to have only the stats when linking the item page in a template. Hence being updated everywhere without having to update it manually. --Adys 17:28, 6 November 2006 (EST)
I wouldn't worry about little templates bloating the wiki. Storage space for text is not an issue according to Rustak.
And, yes, syndicated item tooltips are definitely doable. There's even a Mediawiki plugin for it. Rustak was meaning to put it in during the last upgrade but didn't get around to it.   --Mikk (T) 03:39, 7 November 2006 (EST)
 ! That's the kind of tooltip when you scroll over the text you see the stats? --Tinkerer 07:23, 7 November 2006 (EST)
I've been pondering how to do this without making extra pages. It's possible to use <noinclude> and <includeonly> blocks to create 2 different "sets" of data on the same page. Then using a call like {{:Ironweave Robe}} can show summary info from the item page inside another page. Different template parameters can be used to get differnt info too, my thought was to make a direct transclude be a simple link, if {{{Summary}}} is defined make a small two-line box with icon similar to a vendor frame entry, and if {{{Tooltip}}} is defined a tooltip like above could be included. See Help talk:Item articles#Transclusion_template_design For a bit more on this thought. --Tekkub 20:51, 9 November 2006 (EST)
Okey, after some thought, forget the multiple options, it's just too damn complex. So I simplified it down quite a bit. If the item page is transcluded, like say {{:User:Tekkub/Beaststalker's Mantle}}, then you get a tooltip, see below for an example. In the page it'sself, you get a normal right-side tooltip box. The transclude will make the item name a link to the full page, and on the full page the item name is NOT a link. Here's my example: --Tekkub 04:17, 10 November 2006 (EST)
Inv shoulder 10
More magic in action: High Interrogator Gerstahn Striker's Garb --Tekkub 20:29, 10 November 2006 (EST)

Guild Article Naming

Poked around a bit for some discussion on this but couldn't find it, though I'm sure it has come up before. How was the decision to give Server names and Quests their own name space (ie Server:Frostwolf & Quest:Garments_of_the_Light), but not guilds reached? The amount of guilds represented in the WoW Wiki seems to be growing, and some of the names could result in article naming conflicts in the future. Personally, I'd like to see them moved to something like Guild:Effect, but that's just my two coppers. --Tusva 09:12, 7 November 2006 (EST)

Personally, I'm torn between Guild:My Friends and Server:Our Server/My Friends. The former would be much easier to implement, but the latter would end guild name collisions permanently and accurately represents the Server/Guild relationship. --DarkRyder 11:12, 7 November 2006 (EST)
I like the latter, actually. It'd take a bit of work but once moved and enforced, would keep the guild articles nice and organized by server, and, as you said, prevent naming conflicts. If this gets changed, I'd be more than happy to help move articles. --Tusva 11:15, 7 November 2006 (EST)
Well there is policy, that is, use main name space and if there is a conflict or a conflict arises append the server name. So if you want this changed, it would probably be better to use the policy talk page. --Gryphon 11:20, 7 November 2006 (EST)
Good point, have started a comment on the appropriate page, I'd like further input there if possible. --Tusva 11:56, 7 November 2006 (EST)


What about CoolKiller and his contributions ?--K ) (talk) 09:18, 8 November 2006 (EST)

What about it? Not all contributions might be fantastic but I quite like his BC summary :-) --Tinkerer 09:47, 8 November 2006 (EST)
A Welcome has been posted. --Dracomage 14:04, 8 November 2006 (EST)

Off-topic speculation in entries

In my random ramblings throughout the cavernous virtual halls of the WoWWiki, I've come across a couple of articles that contain tangential speculation on various off-topic issues. A quick example comes from the Smokey LaRue entry:

"Smokey LaRue, level 55 dwarf, is located in Eastern Plaguelands - Light's Hope Chapel. His last name, LaRue, means "The street" in French. This could be a reference to a movie or book. Or it might be a reference to the Red Dirt Country Music artist Stoney LaRue. Maybe one of the programmers is from Oklahoma."

Is it more approriate to remove this from the entry and place it elsewhere, or is it better to leave it alone? It strikes me as unneccessary clutter, but that may be because I can be unreasonably particular on occasion :)

--Azzy 21:59, 8 November 2006 (EST)

Editing articles for focus and conciseness is as important to a wiki as adding new content. Don't be afraid to edit out material that is off-topic or unhelpful to the article. Moving it to the talk page is a good way to proceed.--Aeleas 22:42, 8 November 2006 (EST)

Heading levels

I've found a lot of pages that start with first level headings (i.e., =First level headings=) or have a plethora of them throughout the article. It's a rather common occurance, so I checked the WoWWiki:Editing policy and Help:Editing for any guidelines on what heading levels to use. In some quick skims of the articles, I couldn't find a single mention on how to manage sections and subsections.

I've fixed all 1st level headings to be second level headings whenever I find them, but there definitely needs to be some agreed on guidelines for using 1st level headings somewhere in one of the above articles. It should be rare at best that you see a first level heading in article text, since it's the same size as the article's title. Many of these articles have some real problems with section organization as a result, which makes lowering heading levels even more difficult.

I'm not sure what's standard practice or not, but I'd definitely like to see it included as a guideline somewhere, both on when to appropriately use first level headings and how to organize sections without exhibiting mass nubbery. I'd love to try my hand at writing it, but I'm not sure what people consider standard practice. // Montagg (talk · contr) 23:13, 8 November 2006 (EST)

I began working out a Manual of Style to put up for discussion as a potential guideline a few weeks ago, but haven't (and won't) had time to look at it recently. If anyone wants to run with it, please be my guest.--Aeleas 23:28, 8 November 2006 (EST)
A Manual of Style!? What!? We are NOT Wikipedia!
No, that looks like a good idea. I saw it once before, just read through it now. It looks less like a Manual of Style and more like an article on page organization, unless you were planning on adding more on tone or writing style. I definitely think this is something worth putting in the Help namespace, though. // Montagg (talk · contr) 02:23, 9 November 2006 (EST)
Well, every page that uses the templates Elinksmob, Elinksquest, or Elinksitem will have a least one level 1 header, so level 1 seems to be condoned. User:Beep 26 November 2006
Those templates really need fixed. I've been repairing every L1 header I see just because it looks so ugly to me. Someone pester an admin to fix those templates :) --Tekkub 12:11, 26 November 2006 (EST)
Actually, I was wrong. It seems that while Template:Elinksmob and Template:Elinksquest are level 1, but Template:Elinksitem was lowered to level 2. --Beep 18:13, 26 November 2006 (EST)
Technically, you should always use a level one heading first. Since this is a matter of style, what needs to be changed is the style sheet governing how first level headings work. --Hobinheim 12:15, 26 November 2006 (EST)
I'm familiar with a few wikis, and none of them use it in their standard article format. It's much more common among wikians to use the level two heading as the default.--Aeleas 12:24, 26 November 2006 (EST)
Well, I'm quite new to wikis (messed-up signing my first-ever talk comment), but it seems to me that if level 1 headers look wrong then the solution is to fix their formatting, but if level 1 headers are wrong to use then the solution is to block their use. Just my 2Copper. --Beep 18:08, 26 November 2006 (EST)
A L1 heading does come first *points at the page title* --Tekkub 20:04, 26 November 2006 (EST)
From Meta: "Start with 2 equals signs not 1 because 1 creates H1 tags which should be reserved for page title." --Tekkub 20:20, 26 November 2006 (EST)
Why level one headings are enabled at all for editors is beyond me. I support the level two headers movement. --Hobinheim 21:05, 26 November 2006 (EST)
Agreed, when the software's documentation says they shouldn't be used it shouldn't be in easy to use syntax. I would think you could still allow access to it using the raw HTML, but I wouldn't have put in the L1 syntax at all. Would be neat if we could somehow flag all pages using it as "using outdated styling" the same way you can edit a template and wake it flag all pages that use it with "This page is using a depreciated template...", but I highly doubt that is possible. --Tekkub 21:30, 26 November 2006 (EST)
You could make a bot to crawl all pages (yuck) or make the inline heading one, if distinct from the actual heading, visually offensive. Like blinking orange. Then people will take notice and you can change it then. =) --Hobinheim 21:40, 26 November 2006 (EST)
Finally a use for blink tags! --Tekkub 23:31, 26 November 2006 (EST)
I dun gone and proposed that we form a styling team to teach these heteros some fashion! L1 headings are at the top of my list of what that crew would be fixing. --Tekkub 01:37, 27 November 2006 (EST)

How to actuall create a new page???

I notice that the Braincage helmet is not on WoWwiki so I tried to start a new page for this but cannot figure out for the life of me how to, there are plenty of references to editing a page, not actually creating one. Help please.



--Thraxmanius 09:34, 9 November 2006 (EST)

Braincage < click that, then press edit.  - CJ talk / cont  09:34, 9 November 2006 (EST)
If there's not a link to the new page, you can just type in the new page's name after "" in the Address/Location bar in your browser. So if you wanted to create the the page for Braincage, you'd just type "" in the Address bar. WoWWiki will say the page doesn't exist and will give you a blank editing window to create the new page. However if you do use this method, please link the new page back into the wiki. An orphaned page is a sad page. - ClydeJr 10:32, 9 November 2006 (EST)
You'll also want to use the appropriate Boilerplate when creating the page.   --Mikk (T) 15:08, 9 November 2006 (EST)

Patch 1.13/2.0 Changes

Not sure if this is where I would ask this, but I have heard rumors of the new and up comming patch putting in A. Honor system B. 41 Talent trees C. Class mechanics changes D. Various other crap

The thing that bothers me is C. For the reason Hunters Aimed shot mechanics are being revised, and it is gunna be mostly used as a opener only. Its spot in the shot rotation is being by Steady Shot, which isn't learned "Supposedly" till lvl 63. We we're already gunna have a screwed shot rotation for 3 lvls, with the patch comming before the expansion, does this mean we're gunna get screwed for 2 months + 3 lvls? ANY links to actual blue posts regarding 1.13/2.0 would be most appreciated.

(Woulda asked on the WoW Hunter forums, but they won't load where I am, security filters them for some reason.)

--Fusk 11:12, 9 November 2006 (EST)

While you get another kind of Aimed Shot, that doesn't necesarrily mean WORSE. Also, the 41 easily make up in tricks for the bits you lose in shot rotation. --Tinkerer 15:33, 9 November 2006 (EST)

Bars Navigation Project

Check out these bars I made at work. Style lifted from the Wikipedia. Lots of pages still need love.

{{Factions}}{{Dungeons}}{{Durotar}}{{Kalimdor}}{{Eastern Kingdoms}}

--Hobinheim 18:27, 9 November 2006 (EST)

The Crusade

When TBC is actually released,,,, are we going to keep T:Bc

Sticking that tag to every item / creature / dungeon, etc etc which is only available in BC and beyond, or (since 90% or more will install the upgrade) simply remove those tags and make them part of WoW as a whole?  - CJ talk / cont  03:29, 10 November 2006 (EST)

It's probably worth editing to say, "This content is only available to players running the Burning Crusade client," or a variant thereof, and attaching it to BC-only content once 1.13 goes live. // Montagg (talk · contr) 03:35, 10 November 2006 (EST)
2.0 , Hmm. that would mean that every expansion we get we get more of the similar tags spreading around and bloading the wiki. Perhaps we can at least make it a bit less high by that time. we'll see  - CJ talk / cont  04:25, 10 November 2006 (EST)
It depends on how they structure the expansions, if they'll be independent of one another or not, or if you'll have to buy Burning Crusade to get Expansion 2. Worst case scenario would be independent expansions, in which case we'd have several expansion-related tags. However, it's probably worth noting when a piece of content is available to some people and not others. Of course, this doesn't have to be accomplished at all with tags, and once BC goes live we could delete the BC tags altogether. // Montagg (talk · contr)
I would say just keep a certain category "Burning Crusade Content" with as subcategory Burning Crusade Items, Zones, Mobs, etc. It would leave the user the choice of seeing only BC specific content or separate it from the normal content, without having a giant stamp at the top of a thousand pages. --Adys 07:19, 10 November 2006 (EST)

How about something like that? --Adys 15:20, 14 November 2006 (EST)

Nice and small, although I'd not include "item", just "This is only available to BC players." - if you just change the {{bc}} template into that, it's easily fixed on all the pages, and just as clear :-) --Tinkerer 15:41, 14 November 2006 (EST)
Aye I'd agree but this way it allows the categorization as Burning Crusade Items, Burning Crusade Quests, etc (check the code) --Adys 16:06, 14 November 2006 (EST)
Ah, yes, overlooked it. Different categories for Burning Crusade items? Fine with me, but we can start with doing the categorizing of them now already :p --Tinkerer 16:13, 14 November 2006 (EST)
Hmm nah not really. I like the T:Bc template right now, and its good for big pages and articles about BC in general, such as for example Anatomy of a City: Silvermoon. However, recategorizing articles un the Category:Burning Crusade and splitting them up into Category:Burning Crusade Items, Category:Burning Crusade Zones, Category:Burning Crusade Quests (for example) is perfect to be gone through a category. if you see what I mean ;) --Adys 16:28, 14 November 2006 (EST)

Feature or bug?

I've noticed that Previous/Next links on pages like the Horde Quests do not load the next page unless you are logged in. Is this supposed to be this way? If so, should there be something that tells the user that they need to register for the site before they can view the info?

e.g. Logout of WOWWiki and go to and click the (Next 200) link. The URL redirects but the page repaints with the same info.

--R'ade 13:33, 10 November 2006 (EST)

I would bet on bug. I ran into the same problem myself the other day, but I was logged in. --Gryphon 17:10, 10 November 2006 (EST)


If someone could throw up a disambiguation page for resurrection (Just added a guild page Resurrection_(Guild)) I'd be forever grateful. :) --Qii 17:11, 10 November 2006 (EST)

Guilds don't usually get disambig articles over WoW information articles, they aren't permanent enough. --Gryphon 17:11, 10 November 2006 (EST)

Help:Item articles Mess Around?

Has someone been messing around with the Help:Item articles? I did {{subst::Boilerplate:Item}} and it only shows the tooltip template I think it is something to do with:


Meh, can anyone see why it is doing this? ~Bull3t (talk · contr · curr · wro · blog) // 11:45, 11 November 2006 (EST)

Check out User talk:Mikk and User talk:Kirkburn. It's for making tooltips of items :-) --Tinkerer 13:12, 11 November 2006 (EST)
The noincludes for the new tooltip thingy means that {{subst won't work correctly. You'll have to do the ol manual copy/paste :) --Tekkub 13:44, 11 November 2006 (EST)
Damn, well that kinda defeats the object... :o ~Bull3t (talk · contr · curr · wro · blog) // 13:57, 14 November 2006 (EST)
Don't worry about it, the boilerplate might change somewhat drastically soon. I've been tinkering with Mikk on a way to get a bot to post up item tooltip and other get info dumped from the beta client by an addon. You can see some of the stuff I've manually added in this new format, like the tooltips on Aldor vs. Scryer or the items sold by Quartermaster Davian Vaclav --Tekkub 20:44, 18 November 2006 (EST)


Just to bring it to your attention - User:Tinkerer/Colour may be of use for someone :-) --Tinkerer 13:16, 11 November 2006 (EST)

The American-spelling police is going to be all over you! :D To them is Color. --Dracomage 08:39, 12 November 2006 (EST)
I had to look that up before I knew what you were talking about. ;-) // Montagg (talk · contr) 15:18, 12 November 2006 (EST)
I've got a secret...I've already been using it! Stumbled upon you editing it one day in RC and made note of it. Thanks for the work and much appreciated! :D --Tusva 15:21, 12 November 2006 (EST)
It's taken from Wikipedia, so all I've done is took out the useless chatter and do a big copy+paste ;) Thought it'd be useful here. Ah, and thanks Adys. --Tinkerer 15:24, 12 November 2006 (EST)

Best Class for Blood Elf?

Can someone help me out by telling me which class is best for a Blood Elf? Which class would exploit their racial abilities and stats best? Thanks!

Since the racial ability simply restores whatever resource that class uses, they're probably all pretty decent. And AOE silences are generally nice to have in your back pocket. Also, the stat differences between the blood elf and other races are pretty much negated by the time you're level 10 or 15. Best to pick a class you'll be continually motivated to play. // Montagg (talk · contr) 16:20, 12 November 2006 (EST)

I have never played WoW before and am waiting for the expansion to get it. I was looking at either Paladins (Blood Knights) or Warlocks. Based on your experience which would you say is more fun? Blood Knights look cooler then Warlocks weapon and armor wise but then they seem kind of boring since it looks like most of their abilities revolve around some kind of healing which I think is boring. Warlocks look corny and they don't use swords, but they seem to be very powerful. But of course, I haven't played the game.

Personally, I could have fun playing any class. I would recommend reading up on the classes that interest you most to find out what you'll spending most of your time doing. Especially check the Starting a Paladin and Starting a Warlock articles as well as the information on the WoW community site. In the end, you'll just have to play and find out, but at least with this information you can rule out what you know you won't like. P.S. I'd advise against choosing a class based on what looks coolest, since it's what you spend your time doing that will hold or lose your interest. The high level equipment that looks the coolest won't be yours for many months after you start. // Montagg (talk · contr) 19:14, 12 November 2006 (EST)
Keep in mind that you can create multiple characters, so it's easy try both out and see which you prefer --Karrion 20:10, 12 November 2006 (EST)

If I am a Warlock can I still use armor or do I have to use robes? Can I use a sword or do I have to use a wand/staff?

Warlocks can wear Cloth armor, which is to say, mainly robes. They can train to use swords, but they will rarely engage in melee combat (they are usually standing back throwing spells), so they will mainly choose equipment based on the extra stat values they provide. --Karrion 20:18, 12 November 2006 (EST)
My best advice, lvl every class to 10-20 and see which one you like more. Get a 10 day trial from a friend and just test to see what you like. Thats how I started atleast, and it takes less than 2 hours to get to 10. And don't judge what one you want due to the look of end-game sets, if your just starting it'll be a LONG time before you see it. Lrn2lovetheclass,notthelooks --Fusk 11:20, 13 November 2006 (GMT)
Less than two hours? Dude... Where are you leveling? ;-) I agree, though. You won't get the whole experience, but you'll have a pretty complete idea what it feels like to play a class once you've gotten to 20. Since this will be your first couple times, anywhere between 10 and 20 is probably fine. // Montagg (talk · contr) 13:42, 13 November 2006 (EST)
I've got it down to just over 1hr 30min. As you keep lvling chars, you find little things that make it faster and faster. And lvling to 10-20 you won't experience the whole class as Montag said, but atleast you get an idea of their role and how their played. If everyone had a lvl 20 of every class, Instancing would be 100% easier, imo. --Fusk 12:35, 13 November 2006 (GMT)

How many character slots do you get with an account? Does the expansion add any?

There is an overall maximum (I think it's 50), and you can only have at most 10 characters on a given server (aka realm). Of course you can delete characters to free up slots if you do reach the maximum. No, the expansion doesn't add any more slots unfortunately. By the way, you should sign your posts on talk pages so we can tell who we're talking to ;-) --Karrion 22:14, 13 November 2006 (EST)

rp vs pvp

hi, i got a 23 tauren hunter on and rp server, im new to the game but i hate the fact that i have to "ask" or provoke someone to pvp or we just stand there lol. what are the main differences between Rp and PvP? should i saty and lvl to 60 or just do it all over again in a PvP server?

--Axetotheface 17:50, 12 November 2006 (EST)

This information is on the WoW community site here. You can also check the PvP article as well as the articles it links to for more info. // Montagg (talk · contr) 19:05, 12 November 2006 (EST)

Off-topic: Discussion format preference

We see it everywhere. In our homes. In our workplaces. In our public libraries. I'm talking about Wiki discussions, and wherever you check wikis, they're prevalent. On anything from correct grammar to aesthetics voting to trolling Kirkburn's talk page, discussion in wiki form takes place all over the place. But when it comes to wiki discussion, how do you roll?

Example 1: Are you a stairstep person?

Hi. --PosterBob

Hi. --PosterAlice
You suck. --PosterBob
But... but... It was only a one time thing! --PosterAlice

Example 2: Or maybe a staggered poster?

Dude, I'm so staggered. --PosterBob

Staggered? --PosterDave

Yeah, man. Staggered. --PosterBob

I think you mean "wasted." --PosterDave

Example 3: Or maybe you're an returner?


INSULT --PosterCarol
RETORT --PosterAlice

Aaaaand back to the other side. --PosterBob

Example 4: Or maybe you ignore the pre-established social norm altogether.

I think this article needs to be deleted. --PosterAlice

I think your mom needs to be deleted. --PosterBob
I agree. --PosterTrent
Who are you agreeing to? --PosterAlice

Everyone has their own style, and I'm curious... How do you do it, why, what are the plusses, the minuses, and why should everyone else do it your way, too? // Montagg (talk · contr) 23:17, 12 November 2006 (EST)

For clarity, any replies to a conversation should generally be indented to one place aside the main comment they are replying to, even after any secondary indentations. Any other way and it gets a little confusing.
In the last example, if PosterTrent actually was replying to the first PosterAlice comment, it would be correct. If it was to PosterBob, incorrect. Sam Weber 23:53, 12 November 2006 (EST)
I like my discussion threaded... so in your last example, PosterTrent would be agreeing with PosterAlice, not PosterBob. To expand on your example:

I think this article needs to be deleted. --PosterAlice

I think your mom needs to be deleted. --PosterBob
What is this, Barrens Chat? --PosterCharlie
Well I thought it was funny --PosterBob
You would --PosterCharlie
Your mom would --PosterBob
Dude that doesn't even make sense --PosterCharlie
Your mom doesn't make... oh, forget it. --PosterBob
[[Alice's Mom]] marked for SpeedyDelete --PosterDavid
Hmm, maybe it should be merged with another article? --PosterEvan
I agree. --PosterTrent
Who are you agreeing to? --PosterAlice
I'm agreeing with you, since my post is indended one level from yours --PosterTrent
The advantage is that once you're used to it, it's clear who is responding to whom; posters can reply to particular parts of the discussion while ignoring irrelevant parts like Bob and Charlie's little tiff, and discussion can branch without the two (or more) parts getting confused together.
The main disadvantage is that it can be hard to spot the difference between a multi-paragraph reply and multiple replies - especially if people don't sign their posts! --Karrion 00:11, 13 November 2006 (EST)
Is there an accepted indent level where one should return to the other side? I would think with yours that long conversations could have some problems being squished up against the other side of the page. // Montagg (talk · contr) 12:19, 13 November 2006 (EST)
That can be a problem, yes. Although I suspect most discussions of substance (like this one ;-) tend to be fairly broad rather than deep --Karrion 18:03, 13 November 2006 (EST)
Trolling my user page? Who on earth would do such a thing? :O (yes, this is an example of how I do it, indent compared to the line I'm responding to) -- Kirkburn (talk) 07:25, 13 November 2006 (EST)
Mmm. The beauty of meta conversation. // Montagg (talk · contr) 12:19, 13 November 2006 (EST)
"Or maybe you ignore the pre-established social norm altogether.", mmm that example IS the social norm for traditional threaded discussions. (if you are old enough) --Gryphon 12:31, 13 November 2006 (EST)
  • ~~ Pre-established social norms? Don't classify me, follower of the Man. --Kinst 13:44, 13 November 2006 (EST)
In things like mailing lists, oh yeah. But my point is, some people will just stick their reply to the entire conversation in and give no thought to its indent placement and then confuse what they may have been responding to or who they were talking about, which confuses whether someone's actually following the rules or not. And I didn't even get into the list-style replies. =c) // Montagg (talk · contr) 13:46, 13 November 2006 (EST)
In any traditional threaded forum, example 4 is the norm. If added two indents to "I agree.", PosterAlice would be confused as to who it was in response to. You indent to what you are responding to. --Gryphon 14:02, 13 November 2006 (EST)
If we assume Trent is an experienced forum poster and wiki editor (which, since he's an admin in this example, he probably is), then that's certainly true. But if Trent is PosterJoeNoob, he might just be slighting Alice's mom. Is it appropriate to fix people's replies to conform to the correct format if it's really clear that they're posting incorrectly? // Montagg (talk · contr) 14:15, 13 November 2006 (EST)
I adjust other people's replies or add their sig often for readability. As long as you are not changing the content. --Gryphon 14:42, 13 November 2006 (EST)


How are we about citing references, like Wikipedia? From what I understand, the use of the references markup in Wikipedia is powered by some sort of Mediawiki plug-in or add-on. I support this idea. Comments/admin intervention requested.--Hobinheim 16:52, 13 November 2006 (EST)

The Wikipedia-style [1]

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