Random Comments from Fandyllic

Back from boycott of July 2008

It wasn't as hard as I thought not contributing, but I'm done with that. I used WoWWiki much more just as an info resource and it really is nice. I did notice that Wowhead is doing a great job too and we should try to steal as much good stuff from them as they'll let us. --Gengar orange 22x22 Fandyllic (talk · contr) 3:40 PM PST 1 Aug 2008

WoWWiki is not Wikipedia

I found out today, that if you get blocked on Wikipedia, a main method for appealing a block doesn't work. Clever way to keep out troublemakers. They tell you to put {{unblock|<reason>}} on your talk page, but they can make the block so you can't edit your talk page... so very clever. And since you can't edit, you really can only appeal by e-mail. Good thing, I rarely edit on Wikipedia. Of course the block was an IP block of an anonymous account, so it really isn't a block. But they do have me pegged as a troublemaker. Winky --Gengar orange 22x22 Fandyllic (talk · contr) 7:00 PM PST 28 Jan 2009

That's unfortunate, because that pretty much solidifies which IP yours is. Funnily enough, other people edit both here and there. --Sky (t · c · w) 03:40, 29 January 2009 (UTC)
No it doesn't, I edit Wikipedia from multiple computers at several different locations. --Gengar orange 22x22 Fandyllic (talk · contr) 10:27 PM PST 28 Jan 2009
I don't suppose "Intentionally unsigned" means anything to you? --Sky (t · c · w) 20:38, 30 January 2009 (UTC)
Okay, you caught me, but that still doesn't mean you've tracked even half my anonymous contributions. Let's see if you can figure out the other ones. --Gengar orange 22x22 Fandyllic (talk · contr) 2:10 PM PST 30 Jan 2009
I wasn't deliberately tracking it though. Two and two just equaled four in this case (not that it doesn't always). --Sky (t · c · w) 01:08, 31 January 2009 (UTC)

Comments to Fandyllic

New Event

Fandyllic, I wanted to let you guys know about a wikilicious event we are running to promote the release of Community Blogs across Wikia the first week of April. The event will give you a chance to test out blogs while earning some major mojo with the community. Here's are the details:

  • Users will create a blog post highlighting 3 reasons why everyone should play your game
  • At the end of the week, Wikia will pick winners amongst all communities involved
  • Prizes for the winning community will include:
    • Wikia will create custom artwork and set up an online store for the wiki, so you can create mousepads, coasters, Daisy Dukes, etc... (hey, we're not judging)
    • 5 professionally designed T-shirts featuring the wiki's logo and custom text provided by the community
    • Featured placement on Wikia Gaming
    • Custom Spotlights driving traffic and awareness to your community

If this sounds like fun to you, and I know it does, just drop me a line and tell me your in :)

Cheers -- Doug@fandom (talk) 19:00, 26 March 2009 (UTC)

I'm pretty sure the wiki said no already to blogs. This almost looks like driveby spam... --Sky (t · c · w) 19:18, 26 March 2009 (UTC)
Yeah, no blogs, please. --PcjGamepedia wiki manager (TDrop me a line!

C58,964 contributions and counting) 19:20, 26 March 2009 (UTC)

Complain to Doug, not to me... Winky I would rather have forums than blogs, anyway. --Gengar orange 22x22 Fandyllic (talk · contr) 12:53 PM PST 26 Mar 2009

May not have as much time to WoWWiki

My friend's condo and car were totaled in a fire on early morning (around 2 AM) of Friday (6-Feb-09), so I've been helping him out which takes away from my WoW and WoWWiki time. --Gengar orange 22x22 Fandyllic (talk · contr) 11:58 AM PST 9 Feb 2009

Undelete please

You deleted Hero classes rumor because it was a vanity redirect (a good thing to do), but it was a notable forum hoax about hero classes vandalized into a redirect by a user who is now banned. Can it please be restored? If it is too speculative for it to be on the wiki and not a notable hoax, then it should be deleted again (but I feel that needs a vote).--Sandwichman2449 01:28, 1 May 2008 (UTC)

The page before the redirect and delete exists at User:M1330/Hero classes rumor, but it doesn't have evidence that it was a forum hoax (no links to forum posts or repro'd forum post commentary), so I'm going to to leave Hero classes rumor deleted. The problem is that the original rumor from the forum post immediately got confused with a a list of hero class ideas and basically got completely trashed. You could restore the page based on the original rumor, if you think it is truly notable. If you restore it (basically with copy/paste), I can protect it from non-admin disturbance, but I don't think it is that notable. --Gengar orange 22x22 Fandyllic (talk · contr) 6:52 PM PST 30 Apr 2008
It is not M1330's doing at all. I understand the trashing that happened, but if you don't think it is that notable, then it may be best to just leave it, but I think it is.--Sandwichman2449 01:54, 1 May 2008 (UTC)
I know M1330 didn't do it. Pcj moved the page to a subpage of M1330 (not sure why exactly). I just don't have any motivation to do anything about it. If I had my choice, the hero classes rumor page would redirect to a page called hero class ideas and just have links to people's subpages, but I haven't gotten around to it yet. --Gengar orange 22x22 Fandyllic (talk · contr) 7:04 PM PST 30 Apr 2008
I would use 'ideas' for general ones, and 'rumor' for a the first one. Before you get started on the links, the ideas section of Hero class was merged into Class ideas per the note at the top of the latter page (told to me by Baggins), just so you know.--Sandwichman2449 02:30, 1 May 2008 (UTC)
I know that Class ideas also has hero class ideas, but I don't like them mushed together. The note at the top says hero class ideas will get moved to the appropriate place, but what is that place? --Gengar orange 22x22 Fandyllic (talk · contr) 1:16 PM PST 1 May 2008
If it is announced it will be official info, and the 'appropriate place' it will be moved to is the Hero classes page as opposed to the generic Classes page. It is an unnecessary and obvious comment relating to the blurred line between the two topics.--Sandwichman2449 20:30, 1 May 2008 (UTC)
That doesn't really explain why hero class ideas should not get their own page. --Gengar orange 22x22 Fandyllic (talk · contr) 1:33 PM PST 1 May 2008
What is the difference between a Hero class and a regular one?--Sandwichman2449 20:37, 1 May 2008 (UTC)

Unindent. Blizz says hero classes are just those starting at higher levels. Kirkburn  talk  contr 20:44, 1 May 2008 (UTC)

How do we know what Blizzard is going to allocate where, unless there was a 'no more regular classes' post?--Sandwichman2449 20:46, 1 May 2008 (UTC)
I'm meaning, that we can't really separate them as the name is essentially arbitrary. Kirkburn  talk  contr 21:01, 1 May 2008 (UTC)
So one page then (cleaned a bit)?--Sandwichman2449 21:06, 1 May 2008 (UTC)
It's completely not true that we can't separate user ideas, just official class articles. Although there is currently only one known official hero class upcoming for WoW, there are many user ideas and cramming all the hero class ideas on the same page with regular class ideas just makes the page bloated and painful to slog through. User ideas can be separated by the intent of the user which they usually clearly stated in their ideas. Mixing up the way we organize official info an fan fiction is not necessary or a good idea. --Gengar orange 22x22 Fandyllic (talk · contr) 2:14 PM PST 1 May 2008
Intent could work, but who said anything about mixing official info and fan fiction? I did not mean that.--Sandwichman2449 21:17, 1 May 2008 (UTC)
Kirkburn is applying the reason we mix official hero class and class info to why we shouldn't separate hero class and regular class ideas. My comment was directed at Kirkburn. In the mean time, Coobra seems to be re-organizing things based more on my suggestions. He even created Category:World of Warcraft class ideas. Is he reading this thread? --Gengar orange 22x22 Fandyllic (talk · contr) 2:36 PM PST 1 May 2008
I created that category about a week ago... got tired of M1330 constantly placing his idea page on every lore article he could find (just so it would be seen... So I made the category and threw his page in there among some others I saw around. User:Coobra/Sig3 21:50, 1 May 2008 (UTC)

Interwiki link templates

Somewhat unfortunate timing with those templates, as very soon we'll have the ability to give interwiki links icons based on where they lead, similar to external links. Kirkburn  talk  contr 18:10, 6 May 2008 (UTC)

LOL, too cool. Oh well, I will keep doing it until that shows up. Will the interwiki link icons apply to only Wikipedia and Wikia links? --Gengar orange 22x22 Fandyllic (talk · contr) 11:15 AM PST 6 May 2008
We've got test code live on ... a big range of stuff, basically! Kirkburn  talk  contr 19:31, 6 May 2008 (UTC)
Is there a list somewhere of the icons and wikis that will get this? The range doesn't seem very wide by the examples. --Gengar orange 22x22 Fandyllic (talk · contr) 2:36 PM PST 6 May 2008
Nevermind, I found it at MediaWiki:Common.css and the range is not that wide really. The example has wikipedia,,, uncyclopedia, wikia (central) or wikicities, wikia (other wikis), and guildwars. Would all the major wikia wikis get their own icon and how would that be decided? --Gengar orange 22x22 Fandyllic (talk · contr) 2:46 PM PST 6 May 2008
I'm going to link this discussion to your talk page and we can continue the discussion there. --Gengar orange 22x22 Fandyllic (talk · contr) 3:01 PM PST 6 May 2008

Please see Interwiki link templates section of Kirkburn's talk page for continuation of this thread...

No book image

We have this one already, it is not good?--Sandwichman2449 (talk) 00:02, 8 May 2008 (UTC)

D'oh. I didn't know about that one. It isn't linked anywhere apparently. It is better... I will switch to that one probably. --Gengar orange 22x22 Fandyllic (talk · contr) 6:10 PM PST 8 May 2008


Height, originates out of the RPG. Citations there. Feel free to modify the template somehow to link to that topic. See also life spans and weight.(talk) 00:56, 9 May 2008 (UTC)

Yeah, I know, I'm tagging to remind me to add more specific citations and references. --Gengar orange 22x22 Fandyllic (talk · contr) 5:59 PM PST 8 May 2008

Cool, cool. I was thinking something along the lines of using the ref extension so that refs list at the bottom of a topic page. I started doing that on a few other topics. We also have a citation section under zonebox, but I don't know if there is anything similar on any other types of infoboxes?Baggins (talk) 01:02, 9 May 2008 (UTC)

Using <ref> doesn't take up much space on the displayed link (1), but adding a sources area at the bottom isn't a bad idea. I might just do that. --Gengar orange 22x22 Fandyllic (talk · contr) 6:07 PM PST 8 May 2008

Weight calculations

Ahh, good you had access to RPG in order to recalculate those weight charts, or got assistence from someone else? I was going to back and recheck it myself when I got the chance.Baggins (talk) 04:52, 9 May 2008 (UTC)
Yup, I'm trying to get access to more books. Also had some time with Alliance Player's Guide and Shadows & Light. --Gengar orange 22x22 Fandyllic (talk · contr) 9:57 PM PST 8 May 2008

Cool, hope you found enjoyment out of them.Baggins (talk) 04:58, 9 May 2008 (UTC)

Hmm, I went back and checked in the book and I'm confused... Ok there is the base weight and the weight modifier. Now the modifier is a multiplication right? ...or am I reading it wrong...
Ok lets look at tauren.
Tauren male will do, they are "280 lb. x (2d8) lb."
Ok, that doesn't mean base weight multiplied by two rolls of 8 sided dice (or 8 rolls of two dice)? I don't play rpg, so if I'm misinterpreting something here I would appreciated the explanation. How did you calculate this mess?Baggins (talk) 05:10, 9 May 2008 (UTC)

Never mind I figured it out... :p... Because I looked at the table and not the rule further up the page, its no wonder I came up with calculations with a 4 ton tauren :p.Baggins (talk) 05:29, 9 May 2008 (UTC)

First off, I haven't recalculated the heights, just the weights. I will go through my process, just so you can see if we agree.
Ok here's what the book says:[1] (WoWRPG 174)
Table 7–4: Random Height and Weight. Roll the dice listed in the Height Modifier column to get a number. Then, use that number to add to the PC’s base height to determine the random height. Then, take that same number, multiply it based on the formula in the Weight Modifier column, and add that figure to the PC’s Base Weight.
So the way I read it (using Forsaken female numbers as an example), you roll the first Height Modifier dice 2d10 (2-20) to get a number (also italicized in the instructions above) and add that to Base Height 4' 4", so you get 4' 6" (4' 4" + 2") to 6' (4' 4" + 20"). Then, you take the number (2d10) again and multiply it by the Weight Modifier 2d4 (2-8) to get the final combined weight modifier: 2 (from min 2 of 2d10) x 2 (from min 2 of 2d4) to 20 (from max of 2x10) x 8 (from max of 2x4) which gets you a range of 4 - 160 that you add to the Base Weight 80 lb to get 84 - 240 lb.
Does that make sense and match up with the book? If so, do you want to redo the heights? They're close, but the minimums are technically off. I only got a short look at Alliance Player's Guide and don't have Horde Player's Guide, so maybe you can double check those references. --Gengar orange 22x22 Fandyllic (talk · contr) 10:42 PM PST 8 May 2008

Ya, makes sense. The first part is how I previously calculated the heights. But I was in a hurry when I did it, they might be off by a few inches. I appreciate you checking for accuracy. That is I was looking at the lowest number you could get with dice, and the highest number and then adding them to the base height, as I recall. I may have made the mistake of putting the "base height" back into the document as the low end? Although I think base height can also be used in a pinch as a base for anyone just choosing their own heights without bothering to use the table?

We might want to extend the height and weight tables to include "base height" category. Much like we did for the age categories.

The second bit, the weight was the part where I jumped the shark. I missed the rule in the text about adding multipling hte modifier based on height. I pretty much went straight to the table as there weren't any fancy things going on with the other tables that I could see,and I just assumed it was working the same way. I couldn't figure out why the hell the rpg designers would making creatures that would probably implode under their own weight :p for being so morbidly obese. Thanks for clearing that up.Baggins (talk) 05:53, 9 May 2008 (UTC)

Yeah the formula seemed arcane, but the old weight top end numbers seemed rather large to me also. It would be nice to have just avg height/weight number for all races and just pick that for a quick choice. I can expand the tables to have base height/weight in addition.
On a side note, this RPG stuff is compelling to me, but I've been resisting because regular WoW is a total time sink. Also, it's hard to find PnP RPGers who are willing to put in the time these days. They either have a secret longing, but are too embarassed or find it just easier to play on an RP server. --Gengar orange 22x22 Fandyllic (talk · contr) 11:13 PM PST 8 May 2008
I personally don't have any interest in playing the RPG itself. I started buying the books just because they were entertaining reads (if you skip past the mechanical stuff). Thats one reason I tend to gloss over the mechanic stuff as much as possible... Only reason I even attempted to add these age, height and weight tables because there was interest by some people, asking in talk pages.Baggins (talk) 06:21, 9 May 2008 (UTC)

More Vital Statistics

I think there is going to be at least eight more age, height, and weight charts in the upcoming Dark Factions.

That will make it the largest list in the RPG after the corebook. We might want to break the box into WoW player races vs. other races. Similar to what we did with the language article?

Also Dark Factions was originally going to have blood elf content. I have a feeling it may have been removed to get an update for a future book (hopefully something with draenei and Outland updates).--Baggins (talk) 18:07, 9 May 2008 (UTC)

Has Dark Factions been delayed? Or is the mid-May release the delayed date? --Gengar orange 22x22 Fandyllic (talk · contr) 11:34 AM PST 9 May 2008
I really don't know. I have a preorder from Amazon(since its much cheaper there) but with Amazon could expect it to be a month after whatever the regular release is before they get stock in :p... I'm also buying the pdf for quick use (since all my hardcovers are back in California). But not release date has been given for that yet. I might check borders to see if they get any hardcovers in just so I can browse through the book while I wait for the PDF release.Baggins (talk) 19:16, 9 May 2008 (UTC)
Um you your headings in the height and weight tables are misleading. You have it listed as player and npc. But actually everything on the NPC list were additional player races added to the RPG by supplement books. Dark Factions is releasing even more additional player races for the RPG.
The NPC "monsters" are found in the MoM, or Monster Guide, or at the end sections of the Player's Guide series (and other Brann's books. Monster guide has partial player race rules but doesn't have the vital tables (since the book is not designed to be a player race supplement book).
Best way to tell the difference between a player race and a npc race is that player race have the special class types called "Racial Class", or "Creature Class", which add specific player rules for those races.Baggins (talk) 03:49, 10 May 2008 (UTC)
I need to clarify it more, but the distinctions are based on World of Warcraft, but I guess the WoW Icon 16x16 isn't clear enough. --Gengar orange 22x22 Fandyllic (talk · contr) 8:52 PM PST 9 May 2008
It still has problems you haven't seemed to notice the issue with the fact that high elf, goblin and forsaken high elf, are not player races in the MMO, :). I'd recommend just doing away with the NPC/Player specifications altogeher personally... Its somewhat misleadind from the fact that that page is not specifically a World of Warcraft MMO page, but more of a RPG mechanic info/lore page. Both of which have little to do with the MMO, since weight, and height have nothing to do with the MMO.Baggins (talk) 04:11, 10 May 2008 (UTC)
As usual, you are correct. I'll fix it. --Gengar orange 22x22 Fandyllic (talk · contr) 11:03 AM PST 10 May 2008

Userrights is back

Userrights is back and should be back to normal. Only change is that we can't de-sysop/de-crat, which hopefully shouldn't be a problem. Kirkburn  talk  contr 10:53, 12 May 2008 (UTC)

Cool. I don't need to de-sysop or de-crat. --Gengar orange 22x22 Fandyllic (talk · contr) 8:14 AM PST 12 May 2008

Guide to roleplaying a wedding

Do you find it really necessary to limit this article to just "western-style (american/european) weddings"? I mean this page does not dictate any special ceremony, it just makes suggestions: if people want to have a ring, there are some rings suggested, if someone wants to wear a wedding dress, there is one suggested as well, and if someone wants to celebrate with a firework display, there is advice on that too.

When we speak of a wedding officiate or celebrations, this is not speaking of just one culture. I guess, people all over the world celebrate their weddings in some kind and have some kind of wedding officiate. I'd like to write this page "universally" - so no culture feels excluded. --Tharbur (talk) 21:19, 12 May 2008 (UTC)

You're right my change was not even what I wanted when I read it. I changed it to:
This page is intended to collect all information about in-game weddings (with suggestions tending toward western-style, american/european), and to give advice on the most important issues of a wedding.
Let's face it, the suggestions for weddings are highly biased toward western-style, american/european type wedding regardless of the intent. I would say alot more study on weddings around the world would be needed and many changes to this article to be more inclusive. --Gengar orange 22x22 Fandyllic (talk · contr) 3:05 PM PST 12 May 2008
I agree, though I'd like much more when people of different cultures added their suggestions of how they would like to marry in-game. Your change in formulation is good, let's keep it that way! --Tharbur (talk) 07:24, 14 May 2008 (UTC)
Just to make it clear the intent to expand the article toward multi-cultural variations, I added Request for wedding variation info to the talk page. --Gengar orange 22x22 Fandyllic (talk · contr) 12:05 PM PST 14 May 2008
Good idea!! *tumbs up* --Tharbur (talk) 05:30, 15 May 2008 (UTC)

Instance guides

Compare {{Instancegrouping}} (your creation) to {{partying}} (already existing).--User:Gourra/Sig2 20:10, 15 May 2008 (UTC)

{{Instancegrouping}} is based on {{partying}}, but has some overlap because instance grouping guides for some roles do not exist. Eventually, it should have very little direct overlap. --Gengar orange 22x22 Fandyllic (talk · contr) 1:59 PM PST 15 May 2008
Shouldn't they be merged then? I mean both templates are on the same subject.--User:Gourra/Sig2 21:01, 15 May 2008 (UTC)
If they are on the same subject, then {{partying}} is misnamed. Not all parties are formed for instances. --Gengar orange 22x22 Fandyllic (talk · contr) 2:04 PM PST 15 May 2008
True. Then perhaps a merge to T:Instancegrouping? "Partying" sounds too vague to me anyway.--User:Gourra/Sig2 21:11, 15 May 2008 (UTC)
Going to leave them separate for now. {{Partying}} really just needs to be redone. How many 5-man parties need a main assist? --Gengar orange 22x22 Fandyllic (talk · contr) 2:51 PM PST 15 May 2008

Loot vs Item

What is the deal, with the {{loot}} and {{Item}} templates, between you and Sky... I was given to understand that the Item template was bad, yet you replace instances of Loot with it... --Eirik Ratcatcher (talk) 18:28, 21 May 2008 (UTC)

Item does extra work than loot, but it doesn' require you to know the quality of the item. Generally, you don't want to use item if it is a big table of items, but a few {{item}}s here and there aren't that bad. Sky can get sensitive about what he thinks is the "right" way to do things. Sometimes I agree, sometimes I don't. --Gengar orange 22x22 Fandyllic (talk · contr) 8:01 PM PST 21 May 2008
See also my new {{lootsure}} template, and the reasons - and limitations - on using it. --Eirik Ratcatcher (talk) 00:27, 23 May 2008 (UTC)
I added usage for {{lootsure}}. --Gengar orange 22x22 Fandyllic (talk · contr) 1:54 PM PST 23 May 2008

Magic Schools

Well i'm not sure but you might have made things more confusing. The previous list was not just magic schools in the RPG but also references in other lore, including novels. It was kinda multi-sourced. One specific reference is that nature in both divine and arcane. Arcane nature is specific to novels. Divine nature is rpg.Baggins (talk) 21:07, 23 May 2008 (UTC)

I added "and other sources" to the RPG section header, but you really shouldn't mix things from the RPG and other sources. Magic schools may have impact on game mechanics (RPG) and stuff from other sources will either not apply or confuse things. --Gengar orange 22x22 Fandyllic (talk · contr) 2:12 PM PST 23 May 2008
It was originally intended to be a lore page primarily not a game mechanic page. Brann, the novels, and others blend references to these things into the lore. Also double stacking the source templates is "fugly" we tend to avoid doing that on most pages. I've thought of creating a "multisource" template with the option of manually listing the sources depending on the need.Baggins (talk) 21:15, 23 May 2008 (UTC)
Well, the whole thing that brought this up was someone clearly looking for game mechanic type info, so we should try to allow navigation for that kind of info. --Gengar orange 22x22 Fandyllic (talk · contr) 2:28 PM PST 23 May 2008

Working on it. I moved Damage types back to magic schools but with the (wow) designation. I'll be moving your WoW designation to the bottom of the lore page with a note about how they are mechanics and don't fit into written lore, but put in page citation to wow magic schools at the top.Baggins (talk) 22:10, 23 May 2008 (UTC)

Cool. Thanks for the work. --Gengar orange 22x22 Fandyllic (talk · contr) 4:10 PM PST 23 May 2008


Mk. However, splitting the templates is unnecessary, as that's not what renders in the final product, and would appreciate if you would return to using {{·}} rather than "middot". --Sky (t · c · w) 03:11, 24 May 2008 (UTC)

Splitting the templates? Anyway, it sounds like you have some need to use · that I cannot fulfill. If you want to change them back go ahead, but you still haven't given a good reason for using {{·}} (aka {{%C2%B7}}). All it does is do a bold · (&middot;). I'm not going to follow something that seems mostly irrational. --Gengar orange 22x22 Fandyllic (talk · contr) 12:23 AM PST 25 May 2008
Yes, creating a second template that does the same as first is irrational. Why use the template at all? It prevents the bullet from wrapping to the next line, so that we end up having a bullet start any given line. As well, my preference would be we use {{·}} for the sake of legibility, rather than T:Middot. --Sky (t · c · w) 17:31, 25 May 2008 (UTC)

RPG Professions

A couple of points. You should avoid confusing professions with "classes". If a class and profession share the same name they mean seperate things. I.E. Hunter and hunter, or gladiator and gladiator. Not all with a hunter profession have the hunter class, and not all gladiators have the gladiator class. Apothecary is a another good example.

Secondly, professions are usually just suggestions in the RPG, there rarely are specific rules for many of the professions, though occasionally for certain trade skills. So unless you want one sentence sections in the article, a note should suffice under another section.Baggins (talk) 20:14, 3 June 2008 (UTC)

I'm adding categories and separating sections based on what's linked in Crafts and professions. If those links are wrong, then I guess I'm wrong too. --Gengar orange 22x22 Fandyllic (talk · contr) 1:16 PM PST 3 Jun 2008
Crafts and Professions might have expanded beyond its original purpose. I don't know. Anycase generally speaking if a profession and a class share the same name I've tried to add a note in the pages. I know a healer 'profession' if you want to call it that shows up in the novels on occasion. Such as the horde healer.
Secondly, I don't think we need to create brand new sections for "in WoW" since technically there won't be much more than a single sentence that could be mentioned in a "==notes==" section. The class section of course represents a huge section of lore, and should be the main theme of the topic.Baggins (talk) 20:23, 3 June 2008 (UTC)
I'm basically following up on the decision made by Kirkburn to be more friendly to non-WoW users of WoWWiki. If I were interested in RPG related stuff, I'd much rather see it in a separate section than have to wade through all the WoW stuff. Also, I guess I don't understand what "profession" means in Warcraft RPG. It sounds almost to nebulous to be meaningful. Is a "healer" a profession in RPG or not? If it is then why not put it in a category that says so? If it's not, then why is it listed in Crafts and professions? If Crafts and professions is wrong then why doesn't it have a {{cleanup}} tag or something to indicate that it is misleading or has problems?
Also, I get Sky telling me to stop separating pages into things like "Healer (WoW)" and "Healer (RPG)", whereas you want to jam stuff all in the same page with not even section distinctions. We need to get some consensus, otherwise I'm going to go crazy trying to figure out wht I'm supposed to do.
Generally, I disagree with both you and Sky, so if you want it changed, then change it. We'll see if it gets too out of control. You're not nearly as bad as Sky, so I trust you more. --Gengar orange 22x22 Fandyllic (talk · contr) 1:34 PM PST 3 Jun 2008
Since you use healer as an example... There is next to nothing on "definitions" used on the term healer in the MMO. Definitions come from the RPG and novels. This was already mentioned in the healer article. I had already split the article up into several sections previously, including a "wow section". It should be very easy to follow if people just use the autogenerated index.Baggins (talk) 20:40, 3 June 2008 (UTC)

I wish Blizz was clearer on all this :) Yeah, I'm all for making pages more non-WoW friendly (i.e. not always assuming WoW players). I don't really know the specifics of this though. I heartily recommend making sure you have a combined idea of exactly how to proceed. I'd be specific, but you both know more about this than me :P Kirkburn  talk  contr 21:02, 3 June 2008 (UTC)

"Also, I guess I don't understand what "profession" means in Warcraft RPG. It sounds almost to nebulous to be meaningful."
It is sort of nebulous. Though I'm sure it has meaning to the players. Basically a player can take on any profession he can think of, in the rpg. The rpg makes some suggestions, and gives a few rules for certain craft or trade skills, but not all of them. Infact the trade skills given in the game may be used by more than one "profession". Most of these the player would have to roleplay based on his knowledge of the career. For example a merchant could be a player's career choice, and he could use that to fund his adventures by selling things he collected during his adventures. Someone who becomes an archaeloglist might have a better knowledge on how to read ancient languages, or to interpret an object's signifigance, etc, etc. A profession more or less represents a career outside of the player's class. With the career he could take on several RPG trade skills that someone with that profession might have knowledge of. But as I mentioned before these skills may be used than more than one profession. Usually its up to the player to decide whatskill shis profession should know. YOu can read more about this on page 128 of the WoW corebook, if you have it.Baggins (talk) 21:33, 3 June 2008 (UTC)
Additionally there are crafts and professions that fall under what is called a "Community Skill" in the rpg these are not quite the same thing as player professions (although they more or less function the same way) but professions of npcs, that a player may encounter when visiting a village. But generally speaking this is not RPG wiki, or how to play the RPG... I'm personally more concerned with the lore aspects of the Warcraft Universe then how rpg mechanics function.Baggins (talk) 00:05, 4 June 2008 (UTC)


In The Missing Diplomat quest chain you changed '<' to '&lt;'. Might I know why? --Eirik Ratcatcher (talk) 23:37, 5 June 2008 (UTC)

I just like HTML entities. It also makes sure the parser doesn't try to see things as HTML tags. --Gengar orange 22x22 Fandyllic (talk · contr) 4:51 PM PST 5 Jun 2008
I think we can agree to amiably disagree on the value of entities in this instance. But thanks, I did want to know if there was an explicit reason for the change. Don't suppose you have any examples where the browser treats it badly? I Looked it up ... the source given to my browser has entities there. I'm thinking the wiki server does entity substitution when it serves the page. Am I wrong? Or merely thinking of 'the usual case'? --Eirik Ratcatcher (talk) 18:52, 6 June 2008 (UTC)
Yeah, the wiki server does entity substitution, but might as well reduce its workload if possible. I have no problems with other people not using entities. I just change them when I see them and it doesn't hurt the look of the page. Its borderline OCD, I know. --Gengar orange 22x22 Fandyllic (talk · contr) 12:01 PM PST 6 Jun 2008

Satyr ideas

Are you going to do this to all the ideas to have equal bias, or should I do it? I want to avoid edit conflicts.--User:Sandwichman2448/Sig 19:01, 6 June 2008 (UTC)

your right, sorry my bad....Kesmana (talk) 19:02, 6 June 2008 (UTC)

I was talking to Fandyllic. There is no bad here.--User:Sandwichman2448/Sig 19:04, 6 June 2008 (UTC)
I will do it when it seems appropriate. I will go through various user's race ides and add them, if you want. I just don't see that many people making up race idea pages recently.
The reason I added Kesmana's idea to the Future race ideas page was because I'm sure there are lots of folks who want other people to see their ideas, but not necessarily lose ownership by keeping it a subpage. The best solution seems to link them from Future race ideas. --Gengar orange 22x22 Fandyllic (talk · contr) 12:07 PM PST 6 Jun 2008
I add all the ideas I can find to that page at the bottom. There is also a currently existing category for them. If you think it would be better if they were in the relevant sections, then that works too. I want all user ideas to be displayed equally. Also, three links on one page is not fair.--User:Sandwichman2448/Sig 19:10, 6 June 2008 (UTC)

Thanks really much. And sandwich, i removed 2 Kesmana (talk) 19:20, 6 June 2008 (UTC)

It is not that your ideas (or linking them) is bad, I just want things to be equally displayed to avoid problems.--User:Sandwichman2448/Sig 19:23, 6 June 2008 (UTC)

i know, and it is right, what if we put this link like something, and btw, theres 3 worgen links...—The preceding unsigned comment was added by Kesmana (talkcontr).

Okay, I see what's going on. I didn't know there was a user idea section at the bottom. We can put all the user ideas at the bottom. --Gengar orange 22x22 Fandyllic (talk · contr) 1:31 PM PST 6 Jun 2008

i know...just found user ideas while a go....should we put them before references? Kesmana (talk) 11:20, 8 June 2008 (UTC)

Chance on hit

Chance on hit vs Chance on Hit (previously redirect to Proc) – might be worth checking out.--User:Gourra/Sig2 00:06, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

Good point. I added a link to proc. --Gengar orange 22x22 Fandyllic (talk · contr) 5:16 PM PST 6 Jun 2008


I don't know the standard for what counts as a "stub", but why is there a lore stub attached to this article? It seems comprehensive to me.--Austin P (talk) 18:23, 22 June 2008 (UTC)

The wendigo article is stubbed for anticipated additional info from Wrath of the Lich King. --Gengar orange 22x22 Fandyllic (talk · contr) 3:29 PM PST 1 Aug 2008


I recently noticed portions of articles transcluded onto their own pages. The last one I examined was the Bag article, in which you have transcluded the two larger tables, normal bags and craft bags. The Tailoring patterns article has a similar use of transcluded tables (did not track down the editor.) I would like a better understanding of the purpose of this; since each transcluded page appears to be referenced only in the parent article, what is being gained? In other words, when should this be used? (... other than when the section has multiple references, which is clear enough.) --Madkaugh (talk) 23:31, 7 July 2008 (UTC)

Transclusions are usually used for chunks of wikicode that are used and repeated in multiple places. Sometimes I make things like tables into transcluded pages in anticipation of re-use. Sometimes they don't get re-used, so it's okay to undo the transclusion. --Gengar orange 22x22 Fandyllic (talk · contr) 3:24 PM PST 1 Aug 2008

Separate articles for talent-improved consumables?

I know I'm a few months late, but I've just noticed you created a bunch of new articles for each individual improved version of the warlock summonables. For instance: Greater Healthstone (Improved 1) and Greater Healthstone (Improved 2). I'm wondering what your logic is for needing these articles aside from the main Greater Healthstone article. Please feel free to yell at me if I don't know only because I've missed a discussion somewhere due to my inactivity of late! Tongueout --DuTempete (talk) 04:56, 14 July 2008 (UTC)

I put this in an e-mail, but the separate articles are there to support the correct tooltips for all the variations. Pcj might know a way to use less articles and show the correct tooltip by changing the tooltip template or something, but I don't. --Gengar orange 22x22 Fandyllic (talk · contr) 3:16 PM PST 1 Aug 2008

Special:Userrights update

Our userrights stuff has been updated :)

A WoW bureaucrat can now:

  • Add and remove admin
  • Add bureaucrat
  • Add and remove rollback
  • Add and remove Patrollers (WoW)
  • Add and remove bot

We have the powah :P Kirkburn  talk  contr 10:17, 7 August 2008 (UTC)

Yay! Thanks! I hardly ever do that stuff (except maybe remove a rollback), but good to know. --Gengar orange 22x22 Fandyllic (talk · contr) 11:28 AM PST 7 Aug 2008

Item Boilerplate

Many of the unused items cause the item boilerplate to shift left? Is this a bug in the item boilerplate or is it me? Frostworn1822 (talk) 03:56, 11 August 2008 (UTC)

  • EDIT [Bloodstone]
  • EDIT 2: I need help fixing above link to show the Bloodstone item as a proper page.
Use {{loot|uncommon|Bloodstone (gem)|Bloodstone}} to show: [Bloodstone] --Gengar orange 22x22 Fandyllic (talk · contr) 9:08 PM PST 10 Aug 2008

Removed unverified info


This user is becoming a pain in my ass honestly!

He has already screwed pages up removed guilds and other such information alot of which I have had to undo! Thank god for that feature!!!

He removed: Cataclysm / Bacon from the 25 mans.

Please stop this person before I get more angry!!!

Furean (talk) 19:56, 12 August 2008 (UTC)

Umm you sure said alot without managing to give me enough info to help you. I will try to figure it out anyway. You might want to visit WW:V in the mean time. --Gengar orange 22x22 Fandyllic (talk · contr) 2:56 PM PST 12 Aug 2008
Okay I figured out the user is Blitzme99 and the page is Server:Vashj US. Blitzme99 has been added to the WW:V list for 4 removals that I could easily find. I'm giving Blitzme99 a few days to explain. --Gengar orange 22x22 Fandyllic (talk · contr) 3:23 PM PST 12 Aug 2008


See his reply on User:Blitzme99. --Sky (t · c · w) 22:41, 12 August 2008 (UTC)

Thank you!

Hey Fandyllic,

Just wanted to say thank you for your very prompt sexy admin skills!!!

Keep up the good work @ wow wiki <3

x Furean

You're welcome. Blitzme99 has good intentions, he just didn't communicate the reasons for his actions well. --Gengar orange 22x22 Fandyllic (talk · contr) 2:04 PM PST 13 Aug 2008

Dalaran bank

You know that there are two banks in Dalaran, right? One just at The Eventide and one at the Antonidas Memorial. User:Gourra/Sig2 18:43, 17 August 2008 (UTC)

Oops, no I didn't know. I will get a screenshot of the other one and edit the article. --Gengar orange 22x22 Fandyllic (talk · contr) 11:45 AM PST 17 Aug 2008

PvP Mounts

I don't know what patch but the PvP epic mounts only require lvl 55 and 75 riding skill. Check live yourself but don't check Atlas because it doesn't show it too. I left a message in Atlas bugs because no one knows that PvP epic mounts have different requirments then other epic mounts. I am guessing Blizzard did this for lvl 59 twinkers. Oh and your talk page is so large it's lagging my computer and making me error. --IconSmall DeathknightBuraisu (Talk · Contr) 02:01, 19 August 2008 (UTC) Mount picture

Oh wait, I forgot about this. However, you still shouldn't adjust the regular epic ground mount page for the PvP stats. We need to make new pages for the PvP epic ground mounts with elinks with the correct ids.
Alliance 15 Alliance old PvP epic mounts
Horde 15 Horde old PvP epic mounts
I couldn't find ids for blood elf and draenei mounts:
If you could copy the regular pages and adjust them to match the PvP version info (with correct elinks), that would be helpful. --Gengar orange 22x22 Fandyllic (talk · contr) 7:23 PM PST 18 Aug 2008
Actually, I've read up on this more and the riding skill 75 and level 55 PvP epic ground mounts appear to have only been available in the old PvP system at rank of Rank 11 (Alliance 15 Commander or Horde 15 Lieutenant General). I will update with this info tomorrow, but we could still use new pages for these old mounts. This is why there are no IDs for the blood elf and draenei versions because Bc icon came out after they killed the old PvP system. --Gengar orange 22x22 Fandyllic (talk · contr) 7:30 PM PST 18 Aug 2008
Oh shot, my mount is old system. I wonder how a level 55-59 would get rank 11? I will go back and fix them. Yea, we should make some pages for the old mounts so oldies don't get confused and try what I did. --IconSmall DeathknightBuraisu (Talk · Contr) 02:40, 19 August 2008 (UTC)
Did you do that at the bottom of the page? Legacy PvP mounts. We should add that to all the old PvP mounts. --IconSmall DeathknightBuraisu (Talk · Contr) 03:00, 19 August 2008 (UTC)
No, I didn't do that. I prefer separate articles for items with different item IDs. If you just put it at the bottom of the other article, you can't see its tooltip. --Gengar orange 22x22 Fandyllic (talk · contr) 9:39 PM PST 18 Aug 2008
Should we link from new to old like you are linking from old to new? --IconSmall DeathknightBuraisu (Talk · Contr) 14:08, 19 August 2008 (UTC)
Yeah, we should link from new to old, but it can wait until old ones are filled in. --Gengar orange 22x22 Fandyllic (talk · contr) 8:21 AM PST 19 Aug 2008

Thanks for changing my ranting

Hey, thanks for the change. English isnt my native language, so I get things out wrong at times. TherasTaneel (talkcontr)

No problem. --Gengar orange 22x22 Fandyllic (talk · contr) 3:56 PM PST 19 Aug 2008

Wrath-Logo-Small βeta

I've noticed the use of " Wrath-Logo-Small βeta" across much of the site. Unfortunately, a quick Google search shows that Wowwiki is unique in this convention of using a Greek beta to spell out "beta" visually for Wrath of the Lich King. I've noticed that many edits using this convention have been made by you, and wanted to ask why this was, and where you saw this convention used to talk about the beta program. I can't seem to find any such usage on Blizzard's main beta page or the beta FAQ. The primary reason that this concerns me is that it has the very real impact of reducing searchability, in that the search term "beta" will not match on these uses. Less technically, it just seems that Wowwiki should not be inventing its own spelling conventions for Blizzard programs.

Please, feel free to let me know if there's a reason for this. I'd be happy to find out more. -Deepone (talk) 19:32, 20 August 2008 (UTC)

I was just being silly. Please change any &beta; to just b. I will fix some myself also. The ones in talk pages we can probably leave. --Gengar orange 22x22 Fandyllic (talk · contr) 5:49 PM PST 20 Aug 2008

Priest PvE Guide Replacement

I noticed you have been there and seen it, I believe its basically suitable as a replacement for what is currently public. All the same valuable information is there, only some opinionated, unnecessary or technically incorrect information has been left out. Some is directly from the original guide, but most has been paraphrased or rewritten for constancy. Has also been given a better basis for other priest specs than holy, which was all it used to be based on. Have a look at them and let me know your thoughts, and if you feel its ready for a replacement/movement. Priest PvE guide and replacement Priest PvE guide v2.--Cvt (talk) 03:49, 23 August 2008 (UTC)

It's definitely ready to make the move. I did a bunch of editing, but it could probably use a little more after the move. --Gengar orange 22x22 Fandyllic (talk · contr) 11:24 PM PST 22 Aug 2008


Convinced yet? User:Gourra/Sig2 15:00, 23 August 2008 (UTC)

Upload it and use it as a ref. Seems odd that Horde Expedition would have 4 factions and Alliance Vanguard would only have 3, but maybe it hasn't been turned on yet. I haven't taken any Horde to Dalaran yet. That's where I assume you got that faction status added. It also seems odd that Wowhead has not picked up Sunreavers as a faction yet. --Gengar orange 22x22 Fandyllic (talk · contr) 10:06 AM PST 23 Aug 2008
Well if I'm not mistaken, the Alliance has a fourth faction too: Frostborn. So that evens out the argument. User:Gourra/Sig2 18:26, 28 September 2008 (UTC)
Yup. --Gengar orange 22x22 Fandyllic (talk · contr) 11:29 AM PST 28 Sep 2008

500 Club / Frostworn User contributions

Checking my contributions, have I reached over 500 edits without my user page and fan fiction page edits?

  • If not, I will do more edits, maybe work towards 1000.
    • Right now, my count reads 896.

Frostworn1822 (talk) 06:47, 1 September 2008 (UTC)

Thank you very much! I will keep on editing to 1000!

Frostworn1822 (talk) 06:55, 1 September 2008 (UTC)

You qualify for the 500 club. I use this link and if it shows over 500, that's usually good enough. I'm not sure how it counts edits, but it only shows around 580+ for you. --Gengar orange 22x22 Fandyllic (talk · contr) 11:57 PM PST 31 Aug 2008

No Pic thing

Hey i saw you were placing the Nopic for male dwarves on the frost dwarf articles. While it probably seems to fit i tried doing that once and was sucked into a small arguement about it. It turns out that your not supposed to place the no pic on any article that isnt about someone from one of the books that wasnt given a picture in the book. Just wanted to tell ya. I already reverted some of the picture edits.--Whitedragon254 (talk) 02:32, 7 September 2008 (UTC)

Where exactly was this argument? The rule of thumb for nopics is that they're for lore characters for whom pictures aren't avaliable. --Ragestorm (talk · contr) 03:09, 7 September 2008 (UTC)
There is no such rule. If you want to make it one, propose a policy. Otherwise I'm reverting the statement in WoWWiki:Nopics: These should NOT be used for NPCs that are in-game, where screenshots can be taken. We have no such policy and there is no mention in WoWWiki:Image guidelines. --Gengar orange 22x22 Fandyllic (talk · contr) 8:17 PM PST 6 Sep 2008
Works for me. --Ragestorm (talk · contr) 03:21, 7 September 2008 (UTC)
I thought the same thing, around the time of WotLK beta when i was making taunka pages i put no pic and got yelled at for it, glad to know i was right all along at least :P. Cousin said he'd try to get me a pic of a frost dwarf tomarrow.--Whitedragon254 (talk) 03:46, 7 September 2008 (UTC)

Template Engineer

Welcome to the team, please review WoWWiki talk:Template Engineers for what I had in mind for the first project. --PcjGamepedia wiki manager (TDrop me a line!C58,964 contributions and counting) 00:23, 11 September 2008 (UTC)

Frost nymph

Do you think we should move the frost nymphs from "dryad quest givers" to a frost nymph quest giver category?Baggins (talk) 00:15, 23 September 2008 (UTC)

Since frost nymphs are distinguished as evolved from dryads (implying they are not dryads), yes. --Gengar orange 22x22 Fandyllic (talk · contr) 11:31 AM PST 28 Sep 2008

Game citations

If you are going add citations from a game, please cite the game itself, and not third party websites like Blizzplanet. That's what we have {{ref game}} for.Baggins (talk) 23:22, 10 October 2008 (UTC)

If you're gonna ask me to cite stuff, at least tell me in what article you mean. --Gengar orange 22x22 Fandyllic (talk · contr) 5:08 PM PST 12 Oct 2008
Sorry I meant game references in general. However at the time I specifically ran across your blizzplanet citations in a Warcraft III related page.Baggins (talk) 16:52, 14 October 2008 (UTC)
Sorry, but if I can find a reference on the web, I'm not going to install WC3 and run it just to get to use {{ref game}}. In-game references sound good in practice, but are harder to verify. --Gengar orange 22x22 Fandyllic (talk · contr) 7:01 PM PST 14 Oct 2008
Ok, if your going to be lazy, then its probably best leaving it as a {{fact}}. Just put the links to blizzplanet at the bottom as External Links sections. ...or you could at least use the external webpage to fill in the blanks of the {{ref game}}.Baggins (talk) 04:38, 15 October 2008 (UTC)
Yeah, I'll try to extract stuff to fill in {{ref game}}, if I can. I'm not sure what you have against BlizzPlanet, though. They are a Blizzard sanctioned lore source. --Gengar orange 22x22 Fandyllic (talk · contr) 11:02 AM PST 15 Oct 2008
I have nothing against them. However, they are a secondary or third-level source, rather than a primary source (Blizzard licensed/published). Primary references are better than referencing someone else's paraphrases. Additionally, mistakes in licensed and published sources are bound to occur, but a mistake/speculation in a non licensed source is akin to "fanfic".Baggins (talk) 18:07, 15 October 2008 (UTC)

Inline icons

Heya. Just thinking about the use of inline icons to represent, say, World of Warcraft - I'm not sure it's a good idea, since it requires visual recognition of what could be a pretty small icon compared with straight text. The idea is cool (and it's always useful to flag where content is from), but I think icons replacing text could be a problem. (Should we have a wider conversation about it?). Kirkburn  talk  contr 04:31, 15 October 2008 (UTC)

If you think this is a problem for searches, then I generally agree, but I prefer WoW Icon 16x16 to "wow". If you think this is a serious problem, then bring it up on the Village pump. Personally, I think it isn't a problem, since there is usually a redundant mention of the thing the icon represents somewhere nearby in most articles. --Gengar orange 22x22 Fandyllic (talk · contr) 9:35 PM PST 14 Oct 2008
I think it's fine as something complementary to text, as long as it doesn't look "weird". Btw, congrats on the mount. I wish I was near my desktop in order to play live WoW. Laptops ftl :P Kirkburn  talk  contr 21:33, 20 October 2008 (UTC)
Ok I think we're on the same wavelength for icons. I will be making sure that referential text appears nearby to any icon occurrences.
I can't wait to fly around Outland on my new horsie! It has green flaming hooves and looks cool for a night elf, non-warlock to be riding. I can use it against my guildie who's always showing off her Ability mount kotobrewfest [Great Brewfest Kodo] when she gets a chance. --Gengar orange 22x22 Fandyllic (talk · contr) 2:50 PM PST 20 Oct 2008
Hehe. It's almost enough to make me try WoW on this diddy lil' laptop. :) Kirkburn  talk  contr 22:13, 20 October 2008 (UTC)

need template fot TCG

Hello, I want to ask you to help me.

I want to add to wiki all WOW TCG with images and discription. Can You create the template, which would look as the table?

Name Faction Type Subtype Cost ATK Health TCG-Leeroyjenkins
name of the card faction - 1 type - 2 Subtype - 3 cost ATK value ATK type health
Rules Text
this row for the rules text
Flavour Text
this rowfor the flavour text
Set Number Rarity Artist
card set number - 3 quality Gabe from Artist Name
  • 1 - preffer to use Alliance 32 or Horde 32
  • 2 - type can be Ally, Hero, Item, Weapon, Armor, Quest, Ability
  • 3 - for example Human Palladin or Protection, etc
  • 4 - for example 191/361, etc

Thank, You --QuazaR (talk) 09:07, 28 October 2008 (UTC)

I'm a bit busy, but I will try to make a template that looks like what you've shown. From there maybe you can fix some of the issues. Making templates is not so hard. You can insert named parameters in your template like {{{name}}} that you would use in a template like {{tcgcard|name=Leeroy}}. Hopefully you will see how it works and you can fix stuff yourself after I start it. --Gengar orange 22x22 Fandyllic (talk · contr) 1:44 PM PST 28 Oct 2008
Looks like some folks have started pitching in on work I started... here is the latest example of {{tcgcard}}:

Name Faction Type Subtype Supertype Cost TCG-Leeroyjenkins
Alliance 15 Leeroy Jenkins Alliance Ally Human Paladin 4
Talent Professions
When Leeroy Jenkins enters play, exhaust all other allies in your party. They can't ready during your next ready step. Say "Leeeerooooy Jenkins!" → Leeroy has ferocity this turn.
Race Class ATK type ATK Def Strike cost
Race Class Profession Talent
Lets do this!
Set Number Rarity Artist Health
Heroes of Azeroth 198/361 Epic Gabe from Penny Arcade 1

--Gengar orange 22x22 Fandyllic (talk · contr) 4:17 PM PST 28 Oct 2008

So I made my own TCG infobox templates, with examples for each type on its talk page. Tell me what you think. User:Gourra/Sig2 01:19, 29 October 2008 (UTC)

You should ask QuazaR, since he requested the big template. The only thing I'd like to see is images uploaded that were scanned from the cards so we can use similar symbols (blood droplet for health, etc.). --Gengar orange 22x22 Fandyllic (talk · contr) 6:22 PM PST 28 Oct 2008
Thanks for template creation. I could not create a template by myself, because of insufficient level of possession of English language.It would be quite good it will be defined, what of templates to use. The template, created by Gourra is more convenient, only it is necessary to bring a little change, such as colour of quality of cards. If it to approve, it is possible to start to work, as it is a lot of it. --QuazaR (talk) 22:57, 31 October 2008 (UTC)

Treat Bag drops SS and HH

I've looted both of these from the Treat Bag. The rate is low, but I don't know what it is. I'm pretty sure the rate for the squashling is a fraction of the Hallowed Helm; I've gotten several Helms, only one squashling.

I've also looted two of the lowbie brooms on one character, which suggests that one of them was from a Treat Bag, but I don't recall. (so I didn't add it - no one else is reporting it, either) Madkaugh (talk) 19:00, 31 October 2008 (UTC)

Yeah, Thottbot recorded some people looting Hallowed Helm and Sinister Squashling from Treat Bag, but listed drop % as 0.0. I'm pretty sure the [Rickety Magic Broom] only loots from the [Crudely Wrapped Gift] from the Stop the Fires! daily quest. Strangely neither Wowhead (which appears out-of-date) nor Thottbot have recorded [Tooth Pick]. --Gengar orange 22x22 Fandyllic (talk · contr) 1:42 PM PST 31 Oct 2008
WoWHead shouldn't be out of date (not to say it isn't) - it pulls actual player session data with an add-on. I signed on to run it, but found it to be a bit buggy, seemed to crash WoW occasionally. The user comments seem sparse.
The toothpick is weird. It has an actual in-game graphic effect, if you know what to look for. It seems kinda worthless after the first one for the achievement, but I bet if it was from a TCG loot card, the card would be in demand. I used one after I got piratized to have a 'sparkly gold tooth' Madkaugh (talk) 00:24, 1 November 2008 (UTC)
Wowhead shouldn't be out of date, but for [Treat Bag] it definitely is. If you compare what the Treat Bag contains on Wowhead to its contents on Thottbot, you will see that Thottbot is far more up-to-date in this case. Thottbot has the following items that are missing from Wowhead that I'm sure some of which are new this year:
--Gengar orange 22x22 Fandyllic (talk · contr) 2:51 PM PST 3 Nov 2008

1000 Club

Woot! Thanks for marking me. I was hoping I wouldn't have to pat my own self on the back... lol. Grin -Howbizr (talk) 16:08, 9 November 2008 (UTC)

Thank you from Peregrine, too - that slipped my notice, so thank you very much! I don't mind at all if you're editing that, hehe. ~My rage bar is blue and I start the fight pissed - Peregrine 18:35, 9 November 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for the table

Hi Fandyllic

Ive pinched your character table for my page. Thank you for letting people use it :-)

You may like to know ive changed it a little, I added a column for character specs and have used the icons up here for it. Looks pretty sweet IMO. --Diggory (talk) 14:18, 10 November 2008 (UTC)

My table seems more crowded than yours for some reason, but I will think about adding spec. --Gengar orange 22x22 Fandyllic (talk · contr) 12:30 PM PST 10 Nov 2008

Request for help with tooltip

Edited Fist to add [Heavy Iron Knuckles], changed links to loot links since I was already there; found one that would not give a proper tooltip: [Gladiator's Right Ripper]. Tried to fix it, but found nothing technically wrong with the formatting. Could you have a look at it? Madkaugh (talk) 23:01, 17 November 2008 (UTC)

Fixed. I need to make sure the boilerplate/template help for tooltip makes clear that effect= cannot have linebreaks. Pcj said awhile back that linebreaks screw up the javascript or something. --Gengar orange 22x22 Fandyllic (talk · contr) 4:05 PM PST 17 Nov 2008
Thanks. Madkaugh (talk) 04:13, 18 November 2008 (UTC)

Viewing common.css

Without using special tools, is there an easy way to view the CSS? Also I don't think I've mentioned how SWEET your little stuffed animal is. Grin -Howbizr (talk) 15:38, 9 December 2008 (UTC)

You can see the common.css here: MediaWiki:Common.css. I'm not sure exactly what the policy about editing it is, but I can. I usually let Kirkburn mess with it.
My stuffed animal is a screenshot of my Gengar stuffed animal turned orange. Smiley --Gengar orange 22x22 Fandyllic (talk · contr) 12:31 PM PST 9 Dec 2008

Dalaran world map names

They're pulled directly from the game files... Image:WorldMap-Dalaran1_.jpg, Image:WorldMap-Dalaran2_.jpg:

$ ls Interface/WorldMap/Dalaran/
Dalaran1_10.blp  Dalaran1_4.blp  Dalaran2_10.blp  Dalaran2_4.blp
Dalaran1_11.blp  Dalaran1_5.blp  Dalaran2_11.blp  Dalaran2_5.blp
Dalaran1_12.blp  Dalaran1_6.blp  Dalaran2_12.blp  Dalaran2_6.blp
Dalaran1_1.blp   Dalaran1_7.blp  Dalaran2_1.blp   Dalaran2_7.blp
Dalaran1_2.blp   Dalaran1_8.blp  Dalaran2_2.blp   Dalaran2_8.blp
Dalaran1_3.blp   Dalaran1_9.blp  Dalaran2_3.blp   Dalaran2_9.blp

Just like typos, like Image:WorldMap-Darnassis.jpg:

$ ls Interface/WorldMap/Darnassis/
Darnassis10.blp  Darnassis2.blp  Darnassis6.blp  DarnassisHighlight.blp
Darnassis11.blp  Darnassis3.blp  Darnassis7.blp
Darnassis12.blp  Darnassis4.blp  Darnassis8.blp
Darnassis1.blp   Darnassis5.blp  Darnassis9.blp
Note that it's not necessary to add the space in the user-facing template {{Zone Map|<zone_Dalaran>}}
which is where they'd be getting used anyway.

--k_d3 23:23, 11 December 2008 (UTC)

Is there any good reason to have misleading names on these files just because Blizzard screwed them up? I would think a note along with the image with the name of the original .blp file would be sufficient.
You will notice most of the map links from the Maps page go directly to Image:, so that's how I kept doing it. If we make map only pages (like's wiki does) then we could link to the map pages instead. I may work on that, but I'm not sure when. --Gengar orange 22x22 Fandyllic (talk · contr) 4:55 PM PST 11 Dec 2008

frost dwarf image

done, if you still think its bad then just revert it.--Whitedragon254 sigYou know im seriously 1337 now. {T1337 to the extreme.CThe dragon protects me...that and my MG 30 glock of course..) 00:36, 19 December 2008 (UTC)

Commented on your talk page. --Gengar orange 22x22 Fandyllic (talk · contr) 3:44 PM PST 19 Dec 2008
Those are braids in his beard (got them from the frost dwarf image i uploaded.(not the icon i mean the first frost dwarf image i uploaded, the one on the frostborn and frost dwarf pages.))--Whitedragon254 sigYou know im seriously 1337 now. {T1337 to the extreme.CThe dragon protects me...that and my MG 30 glock of course..) 03:53, 20 December 2008 (UTC)
Commented on your talk page. --Gengar orange 22x22 Fandyllic (talk · contr) 12:05 PM PST 22 Dec 2008


It's a little pre-mature, but I wanted to say hi as it appears you're going to accept the nomination to be our partner on this ad test experiment. Let me know if I'm reading the vote wrong.
As I mentioned in my proposal, there are a few things we hope to try testing

  • Pricegrabber thumbnails of games and game accessories as a "section" within each article. We'll try to select relevant WOW accessories, other games, gaming PC's etc. I am in discussions with PriceGrabber but have not signed a deal yet
  • Google text ads within the content at the beginning of a section or two of longer pages
  • Kontera (green underline ads) for 2 weeks, to gauge if people are ok with them or object violently (I am actually not super keen on this, but it was on and apparently worked...)
  • Long google text ads on the left hand side, outside the content
  • 300x600 ads instead of 300x250 ads (not anytime soon, I don't have an advertiser for this)

I'd appreciate your thoughts - and you should feel free to consult others - we're not trying to do anything that isn't transparent here, we just asked if the group could delegate some of the decision making to 1-2 representatives, so not every decision required a concensus.


Gil (talk)@fandom 03:32, 9 January 2009 (UTC)

I'm not sure which Wikia office you work out of (or maybe you work from home), but I've been to the San Mateo office and would be willing to do a face-to-face with somebody at Wikia to get some concrete ideas down and preview some ideas. You can send me an e-mail at, if you don't want to reply here. I'm not sure about the feasibility of Murph meeting in San Mateo as well.--Gengar orange 22x22 Fandyllic (talk · contr) 8:40 PM PST 8 Jan 2009
I do work from the office (it got moved to San Francisco right near the baseball park). I'd be delighted to meet in person, we could call Murph on skype, or have a 3 way text chat. But if you come, you have to try the massage chair :-) My wife wouldn't let me have it at my house, so I brought it to the office Gil (talk)@fandom 03:42, 9 January 2009 (UTC)
Much as I'd love to just pop over to the Bay Area, it's rather a long trip from Scotland. I'm happy to participate via voice or text conferencing, as long as it can be done from MacOS (I don't really do Windows on my own systems these days). Monday afternoon, Pacific time should work for me. --Murph (talkcontr) 20:08, 16 January 2009 (UTC)
Too bad, it's nice and warm! Anyway, Skype would seem to be a good solution, if you have a Skype account. I misread Gil's availability and the meeting is now 3-4 PM Pacific (11 PM GMT start which may be kind of late?) on Tuesday. Will that work for you? --Gengar orange 22x22 Fandyllic (talk · contr) 5:04 PM PST 19 Jan 2009
I can be available for 3-4 PM Pacific. I'm installing Skype right now. --Murph (talkcontr) 17:18, 20 January 2009 (UTC)
Ok, Skype is installed and seems to be working ok. Will I be calling you, or will you be calling me? --Murph (talkcontr) 17:31, 20 January 2009 (UTC)
You can Skype chat me at jlk4skype during the day and I will collect some information so we can contact you from the Wikia office later in the day. --Gengar orange 22x22 Fandyllic (talk · contr) 11:28 AM PST 20 Jan 2009
Hey, please provide an update as to how the meeting went. Thanks. --PcjGamepedia wiki manager (TDrop me a line!

C58,964 contributions and counting) 16:24, 22 January 2009 (UTC)

I was going to give Kirkburn a chance to say something, but I will post and update later today. --Gengar orange 22x22 Fandyllic (talk · contr) 10:06 AM PST 22 Jan 2009

Commercial guides

Good thoughts on the changes. To be clear, this was just me farting around. If the community is not in favor of documenting guides, it's not something I feel will help support the site in a meaningful way - more a personal project I started over the weekend that could easily be deleted with no hard feelings :-) Gil (talk)@fandom 06:01, 21 January 2009 (UTC)

merging user accounts

I was wondering, is it possible to merge user accounts? e.g. could an old account's edits / contributions be merged into this one? Zurgat (talk) 12:27, 21 January 2009 (UTC)

I suspect this is not a straightforward process, but it might be possible. You would have to find some way to prove that you are connected to both accounts. I would ask Kirkburn, if he knows if this is possible as he has more insight into actual wiki DB possibilities and contact with Wikia engineers. --Gengar orange 22x22 Fandyllic (talk · contr) 10:40 AM PST 21 Jan 2009
Proving it wouldn't be too hard. Can log in from both accounts and say hi. Zurgat (talk) 08:30, 22 January 2009 (UTC)


I did say that if he had anything substantive, he could email me. Otherwise, you are correct. If you think yourself unsuited or wish not to participate, I don't know whom to turn to. --Sky (t · c · w) 22:23, 27 January 2009 (UTC)

I can do it as long as you think the other admins are okay with it. I will try to be stricter that I normally would be. I think we can keep using User:Rolandius/Mentor. --Gengar orange 22x22 Fandyllic (talk · contr) 4:00 PM PST 27 Jan 2009
I find you strict enough personally, if a little odd on how (rather than what) things end up in the wiki. I would presume the other admins are ok with it; they'll need to know though, so feel free to release an email to the list if you see fit. --Sky (t · c · w) 04:43, 28 January 2009 (UTC)

Am I still screwing it up?

I keep thinking there must be an easier way :-) Gil (talk)@fandom 04:55, 2 February 2009 (UTC)

Well, you could just transclude your sponsor sections from some central place, since alot of them are the same. Other than that, some of your section placements could be a little better. I'm moving some of them around a little. You just needed a <br/> at the end for the wrap problems. --Gengar orange 22x22 Fandyllic (talk · contr) 10:01 PM PST 1 Feb 2009
How do I point to a central place? That would be GREAT. I did move them around a bit, just to see if it mattered :-) Not a biggie - use your artistic sensibility on where to put them Gil (talk)@fandom 05:38, 2 February 2009 (UTC)
That other user page is a KillerGuides user, who created the list and placed it there... I'm just updating it as I go through Gil (talk)@fandom 05:38, 2 February 2009 (UTC)

Domain change "vote" and ads

Can I ask why this decision appeared so hush-hush? I visited WoWWiki alot in January but I dont recall seeing a header on any page I was viewing or any information on the front page. The consequences of this decision affect all WoWWiki users. When I first saw the new add on the Hunter abilities page I assumed it was some spammer. I really dislike seeing adds on any Wiki. I would have gladly had voted for the domain change.

Why was there no header on the pages directing the community and users to vote on this important issue? Only 15 people voted on the WoWWiki talk:Domain page, that hardly counts as a consensus. Ifandbut (talk) 14:59, 3 February 2009 (UTC)

A reply can be seen at Spam or sponsor?. User:Coobra/Sig3 17:54, 3 February 2009 (UTC)

Guilds question

I just noticed that back in May 2008, you asked for citation for "Once you begin getting signatures on your charter, focus on getting the remaining signatures on your charter and registering the guild. Signatures can disappear if you delay." Can't cite; this was personal experience. I started a guild, took three or four days to do so. Each day one or two people would drop off the charter. Madkaugh (talk) 19:41, 3 February 2009 (UTC)

I was hoping there might be a blue post floating around for this. I did see some official forum posts of people experiencing this, but no blue response. If you put some mention of your experience on the talk page, that would help. --Gengar orange 22x22 Fandyllic (talk · contr) 1:22 PM PST 3 Feb 2009
I found a ref in the Patch 1.3 notes. It looks like if you sign a charter, you are not locked in and can sign another charter if the previous was not turned in. If you sign another charter, your previous sig disappears. --Gengar orange 22x22 Fandyllic (talk · contr) 1:34 PM PST 3 Feb 2009
I know from observation that until the charter is fully signed and turned in, forming the guild, that you are not "a member of a guild" - your guild tab of your social interface is gray. If you can sign a different charter, you can probably also join an existing guild, also invalidating your signature.
In any case, if you delete the character that signs, that would probably invalidate the signature as well. I'm pretty sure that's not what was happening, but it can happen. Which means signatures can disappear.
I'll mention the circumstances of the observation on the discussion page. Madkaugh (talk) 06:49, 5 February 2009 (UTC)

I see you

Hey Fandy, can you do me a few favors?


Devastation, so Devastation (Talent) can be moved there.
Maim, so Maim (Druid) can be moved there.
Riptide, so Riptide (Shaman ability) can be moved there.

Thank you in advance, User:Coobra/Sig3 20:40, 3 February 2009 (UTC)

Done. --Gengar orange 22x22 Fandyllic (talk · contr) 1:49 PM PST 3 Feb 2009

Best way to delete multiple pages?

I would like to clean up my User area, what's the best way to delete multiple pages? --Niightblade (talk) 00:06, 5 February 2009 (UTC)

Just place {{sd|User requested.|~~~~}} on the top of every page of yours you no longer want. User:Coobra/Sig3 07:09, 5 February 2009 (UTC)
There's no "rm -r" or "deltree" style command? Could take me a while to edit all the pages... --Niightblade (talk) 07:53, 5 February 2009 (UTC)
You could make a list of links to pages you want deleted and I could do a bunch at a time. --Gengar orange 22x22 Fandyllic (talk · contr) 3:15 PM PST 6 Feb 2009
Ok I've finally gotten around to making the list :) User:Niightblade/NukeList -- Niightblade (talk) 22:34, 18 May 2009 (UTC)
Make it easier for fandy.. and link all the pages on that nuke list. User:Coobra/Sig4 22:57, 18 May 2009 (UTC)
I will delete everything linked on the User:Niightblade/NukeList. Say bye bye... ;-) --Gengar orange 22x22Beware the sneaky smile! Fandyllic (talk · contr) 12:31 PM PST 20 May 2009

What would make a good home...

I have done a BUNCH of research about mitigating melee damage. There's probably a good chance this kind of information already has a home spread out through multiple formula pages and sprinkled in tanking guides, but what I'd really like to see is ALL the theory crafting in ONE place. Then if people want to explore one topic, one formula in particular, this is a road map for them to do that, but there's also the BIG picture. And for people like me, maybe it can fill in the cracks, and some of the big changes that were made since Burning Crusade.

I feel like the combat rating system is a little bit broader than my approach. I'm covering Armor rating, Avoidance, Block rating, Block value, Critical hits, Crushing blows, Defense rating, Defense skill, Diminishing returns, Dodge rating, Hit, Miss chance, Parry rating, Resilience, Uncrittable, Uncrushability, but notthing like armor penetration, haste, or expertise. And while the article would very much center around tank gear, I wasn't sure if tank was the right article either.

Suggestions? -Howbizr (talk) 00:21, 6 March 2009 (UTC)

Well, you could work on a page called Melee damage mitigation and just link all the other pages or subsections at the bottom under a "See also" section. When you're done or nearly done, you could start adding links to your page at the ones in the "See also" list. --Gengar orange 22x22 Fandyllic (talk · contr) 5:27 PM PST 5 Mar 2009
Please look at Formulas:Damage reduction also. Hopefully you will cover the topic more broadly, but I don't know what you have. --Gengar orange 22x22 Fandyllic (talk · contr) 5:32 PM PST 5 Mar 2009
I almost pasted what I had right here into your talk box, but then thought better of it. Smiley. -Howbizr (talk) 00:42, 6 March 2009 (UTC)
I ended up with melee mitigation and Formula:Diminishing returns. I haven't cross referenced in other pages yet. And I'm trying to decide what to do with attack table. It seems like it's on the same topic, but it's more example oriented. I also feel it's out of date on a few points. This is a big undertaking - I have answered a lot of questions, but I still have a lot open. And in general I feel that "mitigation" articles need some organization. It's hard to find all of them, should you want to read it all! -Howbizr (talk) 16:29, 8 March 2009 (UTC)


Did you see? -Howbizr (talk) 15:01, 13 March 2009 (UTC)

Although, the language is left open for change. But I hope they wouldn't lower it below level 60. -Howbizr (talk) 18:13, 13 March 2009 (UTC)
Yeah, there is not much reason for it below level 60 and if the cost stays around 1000Gold, it might encourage gold-buying for sub-60 dopes who won't have made nearly that much. Even at level 60, it might be a choice between and epic ground mount and dual-spec. --Gengar orange 22x22 Fandyllic (talk · contr) 2:21 PM PST 13 Mar 2009
Someone got confirmation from PTR that it's level 40. Woo hoo. -Howbizr (talk) 18:37, 19 March 2009 (UTC)

Book titles

Should we be putting books at simply <title> or "Warcraft: <title>"/"World of Warcraft: <title>? This issue has come up a few times before, and I think we need a clearer convention. While a lot of sites tend to add the series, this is more of a trademark than part of the individual book's title. I noticed your moving Arthas, so, I wanted to get your opinion on the whole thing.--Ragestorm (talk · contr)

I prefer adding the "World of Warcraft: " to the beginning to help relieve the need for some disambiguation and matches the way external sources present the title. Also, it clarifies that the books are intended to tie into World of Warcraft and not some other Warcraft property. A counter example is Warcraft: Legends. However, a good argument could convince me otherwise. I don't mind stuff moving around until we decide. --Gengar orange 22x22 Fandyllic (talk · contr) 7:41 PM PST 16 Mar 2009
I would argue that If we did adopt this, we should use whatever trademark is on the book itself, Legends uses the Warcraft trademark not the WoW trademark. In the case of Arthas, the subtitle "Rise of the Lich King" should be enough of a disambig, but yea, I can see that point. --Ragestorm (talk · contr) 02:51, 17 March 2009 (UTC)
We have to use the Warcraft trademark for Death Knight (manga) and Legends because both terms, death knight and legends terms have their own meanings in Warcraft terminology.Baggins (talk) 04:00, 17 March 2009 (UTC)
Hmmm... interesting. I wonder why they would call it Warcraft: Death Knight and not World of Warcraft: Death Knight. Perhaps it is about death knights before they became minions of the Scourge? Perhaps like Teron Gorefiend? --Gengar orange 22x22 Fandyllic (talk · contr) 11:01 PM PST 16 Mar 2009

From what I understand the full cover description will be Warcraft: Death Knight (A world of Warcraft ADventure) and is a prequel to Wrath of some sort. The title draws from the fact that it is part of the manga series, and also points out that it is tied to World of Warcraft.Baggins (talk) 06:28, 17 March 2009 (UTC)

That's a good point. All books since Cycle of Hatred use the World of Warcraft imprint, while all the manga/manhwa still uses the plain Warcraft imprint. I guess this DK work changes things.--Ragestorm (talk · contr) 13:13, 17 March 2009 (UTC)


Replying to the talk page, I don't have access to modify the template, but I'd be happy to update the documentation when the template has been updated. I figure I'd just message you personally, so you can decide what you want to do change any permissions (or not) or if you want to just modify the template yourself. -Howbizr (talk) 19:56, 19 March 2009 (UTC)

Oops, yeah I forgot it was protected. I will add your icon to the docs. --Gengar orange 22x22 Fandyllic (talk · contr) 1:00 PM PST 19 Mar 2009
Oh even though, Template:Elink is protected, Template:Elink/doc is not, so you could have added the icon yourself. --Gengar orange 22x22 Fandyllic (talk · contr) 1:10 PM PST 19 Mar 2009


Got an issue with an admin who undid changes I made to the page. I'm guessing the change was undone due to the size of the list of in-game sounds that I posted - around 1mb. As you're no doubt aware I have a semi-clue what I'm doing on wowwiki but not much more. Reason I'm guessing is that no reason was given. The information in question is repeatedly asked for in the discussions part of that page, is relevant, extremely useful to movie-makers such as myself, of interest to the general Wow player population, doesn't hurt anyone and needs to be on wowwiki. Don't really know how to deal with reporting vandalism by an admin, so this is my first attempt since I have minimal time to deal with this - impending movie release deadline currently being hampered by someone not liking the Play Soundfile list being posted.


In other news I just found the question you posed to me a few months ago re: Mac sound issues. "Hey, I noticed you added some good issue on solving sound issue in the World of Warcraft functionality on Macs article. Is this something you discovered on your own or is it posted on the web somewhere? --Image:gengar orange 22x22.png Fandyllic (talk · contr) 3:42 PM PST 17 Nov 2008

WoW Mac Tech Support Forum"

Half and half is my guess. Had the problem for a while after Wrath and finally got angry enough to do something about it, so I searched around for a bit, found something on the WoW Mac Tech Suppt Forum and messed around with it, may or may not have found something similar on an Apple Tech Suppt forum, fixed the problem by trial and error, forgot where I got the info and then posted it here.—The preceding unsigned comment was added by Parl2001 (talkcontr).

My own guess (I'm not Fandyllic, nor do I presume to speak for him) is "you're guess is right". Some browsers have problems with pages whose text is over 32k. You've presented enough sound file links that it would earn its own category. I do suggest that as a solution... sort out your sound file links in useful fashions (say, speaker (or SFX), zone, whatever), and in files of say 30k apiece. This might be a good project to create first as sandbox subpages under your (currently nonexistent) user page. For one example of how to do this, look here--Eirik Ratcatcher (talk) 23:59, 20 March 2009 (UTC)

way too busy, but good idea. someone solved my personal issue of having a list easily available so this is history as far as my personal efforts are concerned. Parl2001 (talk) 01:08, 21 March 2009 (UTC)

Yup, Eirik is on the right track. I will make a bunch of pages to put your lists of macros into. When all your macros are listed in those pages, we can link to those pages from the API_PlaySoundFile page. All those links really didn't belong there, but Adys still should have left you a message or something. I see Jrooksjr aka Morph as reposted the sound file list on your talk page.
Here are the pages we can fill in (they can be moved around later, if they're in the wrong place):
That should be enough pages to make them manageable. There may be creatures that have sounds used in various geographical locations, but we can put the sound macro in the location where it is most likely to be encountered (i.e. general blood elf NPC sounds would be in Eastern Kingdoms and night elf ones would be in Kalimdor, unless the creature was known only to be in one area).
Also you list doesn't include Wrath-Logo-Small, but we might as well prepare for them.
--Gengar orange 22x22 Fandyllic (talk · contr) 6:13 PM PST 20 Mar 2009


Greeting you, too! I am a Hungarian developer and I rescue the English side instead of the Hungarian accidentally sometimes. But i'll be careful and I am striving to ensure on the fact that I should ruin nothing at you !

But I would like to ask it if we got together in this manner already, that he does not manage to make it on the Hungarian side it <imagelink> command shorts, if you would be able to relate it how it would be needed very much would be good

--Bombasz 7:41 PM 21 Mar 2009


thank you very much information, helped me a lot !--Bombasz 11:10 PM 21 Mar 2009

Imagelink problem

this is my big problem! could someone help me? The Hungarian side is not working for imagelink

Example [1]

Here you can see the malfunction of the Hungarian side

Bombasz: The bomb expert, just a mistake ! (talk) 14:38, 24 March 2009 (UTC)

See User_talk:Bombasz#Imagelink_problem. --Gengar orange 22x22 Fandyllic (talk · contr) 9:11 AM PST 24 Mar 2009


Via Google language tools:Thank you very much you for your help. Contact with the Hungarian side the head

The bomb expert, just a mistake ! (talk) 16:53, 24 March 2009 (UTC)Bombasz

Minor Edit

Hey, It defaulted to minor edit whenever I edit something, so maybe I should have changed it, but I still consider it minor since I wasn't able to complete the article, just add a little bit of info ;) PrivateSniper (talk) 13:23, 27 March 2009 (UTC)

I just saw your edit randomly and figured I'd poke some fun. The only reason to not mark your edits as minor is because people might filter out minor edits when looking through recent changes and miss your edits. It's no big deal. You probably just have "Mark all edits minor by default" checkmarked in your preferences in the Editing tab. --Gengar orange 22x22 Fandyllic (talk · contr) 11:28 AM PST 27 Mar 2009

Right you are

Good catch, sorry about that. I was trying to copy/paste from a wowhead search b/c I didn't want to have to write it all down. Should be correct now. --—The preceding unsigned comment was added by Cowlinator (talkcontr). 15:41, 30 March 2009

I only caught it because I used to be into arenas and figured some of it might be arena and not plain old honor stuff. --Gengar orange 22x22 Fandyllic (talk · contr) 5:25 PM PST 30 Mar 2009

Rolandius editing WoWWiki: pages

You once said to Rolandius "Please don't edit WoWWiki:Policy pages directly without staging an edited copy as a subpage of your user namespace first."[2] I am wondering the extent of the context of that statement. He has made several edits to the WoWWiki namespace as of late[3], and summarized most of those edits with only "Corrected spelling/grammar", something he has been talked to about before.[4][5][6] This making his edits very hard to keep track of. He has changed the context of a statement at least once with his edits[7], and may have done so more than that as he has done in the past. As he occasionally cites WoWWiki policies to support some of his edits that others may find controversial, he may in the future use a rule he reworded to support his actions, causing a problem. I am assuming good faith because he has not done anything like that yet that I know of. I would still appreciate it if you would review these edits and/or talk to your mentee, if you please to. Thank you.--User:Sandwichman2448/Sig 01:52, 31 March 2009 (UTC)

The WoWWiki:Bold, revert, discuss cycle is not policy. --PcjGamepedia wiki manager (TDrop me a line!

C58,964 contributions and counting) 01:59, 31 March 2009 (UTC)

What about the other ones, are they important?--User:Sandwichman2448/Sig 02:02, 31 March 2009 (UTC)
They're all guidelines. His use of non-descriptive edit summaries should still be reviewed. --PcjGamepedia wiki manager (TDrop me a line!

C58,964 contributions and counting) 02:08, 31 March 2009 (UTC)

I've been reviewing his edits, but I'll give him a warning. --Gengar orange 22x22 Fandyllic (talk · contr) 9:20 PM PST 30 Mar 2009
Thank you. That is reassuring.--User:Sandwichman2448/Sig 21:40, 31 March 2009 (UTC)

Stubbing item pages

Care to elaborate why you added {{Stub/Item}} to item pages such as Baleen Braided Collar and Glyph of Blast Wave? I don't see why there should be any more information added to those pages. --User:Gourra/Sig2 09:26, 5 April 2009 (UTC)

My attitude about stubbing items is this: Until it has at least as much info as Wowhead, it is incomplete (at least until we transclude from a DB directly). Most items are usually missing possible disenchant results. Glyph of Blast Wave is lacking pros and cons for applying this glyph over others. --Gengar orange 22x22Beware the sneaky smile! Fandyllic (talk · contr) 11:27 AM PST 5 Apr 2009
Disenchant info depends on the level and quality (Disenchanting tables), and mage glyph pros/cons would better be on Mage tactics or Mage glyphs. --User:Gourra/Sig2 18:44, 5 April 2009 (UTC)
Level and quality of the item, which is known. Another place to look for glyph pro/cons would be Mage tactics or Mage glyphs, but does not discount having this information or at least a link on individual glyph item pages. Why is this so important to you? I'm not Eirik, you know. --Gengar orange 22x22Beware the sneaky smile! Fandyllic (talk · contr) 11:48 AM PST 5 Apr 2009
I disagree, disenchanting mats are based on level and quality and type of the item and are therefore redundant to that information. Mage glyph comparison would be nice, but the page is not a stub without them. The item boilerplate would be a stub in that case. --PcjGamepedia wiki manager (TDrop me a line!

C58,964 contributions and counting) 18:57, 5 April 2009 (UTC)

It's (more or less) useless to make a glyph comparison if you don't have all of the examples on one article, which is why the individual class glyph articles are more suitable for that. --User:Gourra/Sig2 19:03, 5 April 2009 (UTC)
If disenchanting ingredients are redundant then why does Wowhead have them? Most of these statements you're making are opinion and have no policy basis. As Mikk said a long time ago on WoWWiki:Stub: "There's really no strict guidelines on it, other than simply if someone knows that there's more info that could go into the page..." The policy page does not strictly limit what is a stub or what is not.
If it offends you that I stubbed a page which you think is not, go ahead and remove it, but seek therapy.--Gengar orange 22x22Beware the sneaky smile! Fandyllic (talk · contr) 12:09 PM PST 5 Apr 2009
Drop rates are fine on item database sites such as Wowhead, but WW:EL (which is policy) states, "While we do want a great deal of information on the wiki, inaccuracy (such as item drop rates) or opinions (such as wild speculative discussions) should be reserved for outside websites and forums, so elinks are appropriate for these." Wowhead is elinked on item articles, so the information there about enchanting mat(s) drop rates from items should be sufficient. --PcjGamepedia wiki manager (TDrop me a line!

C58,964 contributions and counting) 19:18, 5 April 2009 (UTC)

That is an obvious twisting of the interpretation of an external links policy. The quote you use applies to the -discussion- of inaccuracy and opinion, but not the information itself. Pcj, are you trying to extend this thread based on your general dislike of my perspective or just because you're bored? If you're gonna try to help Gourra, your time could be better spent on something else. --Gengar orange 22x22Beware the sneaky smile! Fandyllic (talk · contr) 12:28 PM PST 5 Apr 2009
I do believe that drop rates which can change between patches would be better suited for an item database rather than the wiki. That is what the policy is referring to, if that is not clear then it needs to be changed so it is. Also, I don't appreciate ad hominem arguments. --PcjGamepedia wiki manager (TDrop me a line!

C58,964 contributions and counting) 19:35, 5 April 2009 (UTC)

Your appreciation is not my intent. There is a policy change process, so if you want to clarify, then use that process. Don't try to use your interpretation that isn't even clear in the policy to push an argument that you inserted yourself into in the first place. This discussion does very little to help the improvement of the wiki, but for some reason you find it very important. I can't fathom that, but I can dispute your position. I think I have successfully. --Gengar orange 22x22Beware the sneaky smile! Fandyllic (talk · contr) 12:43 PM PST 5 Apr 2009
Soon done with the personal attacks, Fandies? Adys 23:35, 8 April 2009 (UTC)
You really don't want to draw my attention right now, Adys. --Gengar orange 22x22Beware the sneaky smile! Fandyllic (talk · contr) 4:48 PM PST 8 Apr 2009

Periods? I'm sorry. You may have the power to de-admin whoever you want (just do it if it can speed up the process); but as I said before, many of the admin team are talking about your demotion. Take my hint: YOU really don't want to draw any more attention to yourself. Not now, not ever. Adys 00:02, 9 April 2009 (UTC)
Like magic. You get your wish. You are no longer an admin. --Gengar orange 22x22Beware the sneaky smile! Fandyllic (talk · contr) 5:09 PM PST 8 Apr 2009

Comments from the peanut gallery

You'd think I was trampling on some people's sacred cows, with my recent vote calls.... I can be a stinker, some times. :)

As for the noinclude/onlyinclude stuff, yeah, it's been a while. --Eirik Ratcatcher (talk) 19:08, 6 April 2009 (UTC)

I didn't know you can look it up without the link takes you to a magical listing of Eirik votes. At least it's not loot drama. Some people take their wiki-ing very seriously. ;-) --Gengar orange 22x22Beware the sneaky smile! Fandyllic (talk · contr) 12:48 PM PST 6 Apr 2009

The link is broken, but I figured that looking through my past contributions would be something you'd already done anyway. Loot drama? Such as "rewards" vs "Gains", and where that goes? Or {{Itembox}} changes I'd like to see? If that's what you're talking about, I am sorry to have disappointed ya.

On another topic, though, you Stubbed Sweltering Robes. It would help if I knew just why... And it appears that for some strange reason I did indeed use the offalawful noinclude. I have no idea why. --Eirik Ratcatcher (talk) 19:57, 6 April 2009 (UTC)

At the time I was thinking of 2 reasons for stubbing [Sweltering Robes]: 1) It is one of the crappier cloth chest pieces for a level 71 quest reward and 2) possible disenchant results (since that's what I'd do with it, if I got it as an enchanter; also see above argument). --Gengar orange 22x22Beware the sneaky smile! Fandyllic (talk · contr) 1:27 PM PST 6 Apr 2009
So you more or less were going to add "This item sucks. Disenchant it"? Way to be constructive. Also, see the table on Disenchanting. --User:Gourra/Sig2 06:36, 9 April 2009 (UTC)
In guild chat I often get asked if an item is worth keeping or should just be disenchanted. If WoWWiki had that info more regular, I probably wouldn't get asked as much. Besides, the Disenchanting table sort of sucks. No wait, it sucks ALOT. It gives you no idea what specific results of disenchanting you might expect, just the regular, vague dusts, essences, or shards kind of indicator. --Gengar orange 22x22Beware the sneaky smile! Fandyllic (talk · contr) 10:38 PM PST 11 Apr 2009

Hmm... To that end, then... Could you 1) dummy up the sort of text addition you are thinking of (for disenchanting materials), and 2) list some locations where the statistics can be found? If generic statistics can be summed up by a template, would making a {{DisenchantsInto}} template be appropriate?

I'm envisioning something along the lines of "Strange Dust/Magic Essence" vs "Arcane Dust/Planar Essence" sort of thing in the template (or the hand-created text). --Eirik Ratcatcher (talk) 20:26, 13 April 2009 (UTC)

Already implemented as part of tooltip in all item pages. See {{DE}}. --PcjGamepedia wiki manager (TDrop me a line!

C58,964 contributions and counting) 20:29, 13 April 2009 (UTC)

That was quick. I guess no need for stubs for DE stuff anymore (assuming tooltip data is filled dout fully). --Gengar orange 22x22Beware the sneaky smile! Fandyllic (talk · contr) 1:43 PM PST 13 Apr 2009


Moved to Stubs section on WoWWiki talk:Stub. --Gengar orange 22x22Beware the sneaky smile! Fandyllic (talk · contr) 5:27 PM PST 9 Apr 2009
I'm hoping that that firestorm actually gets something done. Again, sorry for igniting it on your talk page. --Eirik Ratcatcher (talk) 15:49, 10 April 2009 (UTC)
There was already a firestorm on my talk page. You actually gave me an excuse to move some of it elsewhere, so no worries. --Gengar orange 22x22Beware the sneaky smile! Fandyllic (talk · contr) 8:52 AM PST 10 Apr 2009

Problem user

I think someone needs to talk to Verosogak the Mighty!!! if you haven't already. -Howbizr (talk) 19:29, 10 April 2009 (UTC)

I doubt that will help.--User:Sandwichman2448/Sig 19:36, 10 April 2009 (UTC)
Yeah, Pcj permbanned Verosogak and rightly so. --Gengar orange 22x22Beware the sneaky smile! Fandyllic (talk · contr) 1:58 PM PST 10 Apr 2009

RFA archival

I think WoWWiki:Requests for adminship needs one or two more archives, as two of the votes passed and are done with. I would do it, but I do not know if any special procedures are in place for that page, and you created the last archive.--User:Sandwichman2448/Sig 23:34, 11 April 2009 (UTC)

No special procedures that I know of. I will do it, though. --Gengar orange 22x22Beware the sneaky smile! Fandyllic (talk · contr) 10:19 PM PST 11 Apr 2009
Looks like Coobra did the archive already. --Gengar orange 22x22Beware the sneaky smile! Fandyllic (talk · contr) 10:26 PM PST 11 Apr 2009

Speculation notes in azeroth

BTW, not to make a big deal of pointing out the redundancy, but the speculation section you added is already archived in the talk page, in a section earlier in the page. I had archived it when I removed it from the main page.Baggins (talk) 05:49, 18 April 2009 (UTC)

I saw some of that, but it seemed different in organization, so I thought there were more differences. It looks like the Azeroth related articles have undergone alot of upheaval recently. --Gengar orange 22x22Beware the sneaky smile! Fandyllic (talk · contr) 10:55 AM PST 18 Apr 2009
Ya, the upheavel was needed, after I noticed that previous articles based mainly on varying interpretation of text (and certain interpretations were made obselete by later released material). It was these conflicting interpretations that suggest that knowing the "intent" of one sentence from another for use of a term is not as clear as it should be. I.e. while "Azeroth" is sometimes described as a kingdom, or as a continent, most of the time there is no description in sentences, and "Azeroth" is used only. I thought it was best the terms were merged noting that the term can be described different ways, but pointing out that those descriptions are not proper titles in and of themselves, and that Blizzard has not specifically taken the time to specify any particular definitions on the matter in former articles. In other words I was working to remove material that became speculative or inaccurate based on later sources, or were simply speculative to begin with.Baggins (talk) 18:10, 18 April 2009 (UTC)
Yeah, rolling most of it together works. --Gengar orange 22x22Beware the sneaky smile! Fandyllic (talk · contr) 6:44 PM PST 18 Apr 2009
I think sometimes people treat info as "speculative" or a "retcon" when it is just a natural occurence. For instance, something like "Azeroth" could have been used at one time in the past for a certain area of land, but over time it changed and that word was not used any longer. It does not mean it was "speculation" or even a "retcon", especially when it has many citations. An example in "Earth" would be something like Istandbul. We know that in the past that city had various names like Byzantium and Constantinople. Currently, it is Istanbul, but that does not mean that Byzantium and Constantinople were "mistakes" or "retcons" — although a retcon isn't used in the real world, but you see what I am saying — it was a natural change. So this is similiar to the Warcraft universe where we sometimes do run into retcons and mistakes, but also natural changes. Saying that Azeroth could never ever have been used as the name of some land north of Khaz Modan, even though we have citations saying it was, is like someone in modern time on "Earth" saying Istanbul could never ever have been called Byzantium or Constantinople because its "real" name is Istanbul. There is a difference between saying "Azeroth was a name used north of Khaz Modan" but with 0 citations and saying "Azeroth was a name used north of Khaz Modan" and then showing a lot of citations saying it. Another thing is that Bran is in the "present" when he speaks of both the "past" and "present" in the RPGs. So you have to take the context of the things he says. He could mention Azeroth when he speaking about something in the past and then say Lordaeron because he is speaking about something in the present. I will go to another example of "Earth". If you read something which stated "In this spot was Byzantium, a grand city" and then afterwards read something like "This city of Instanbul is located in Turkey" that does mean Byzantium was a mistake and that they really meant Instanbul. They are both correct, just in different eras. Rolandius Paladin (talk - contr) 02:00, 19 April 2009 (UTC)
Agreed. I mentioned something like this on User:Rolandius/Mentor#Azeroth_.28continent.29, but I do think the Azeroth article got out of control. You still have to show that the era context makes something right or wrong, though. I suspect a Blizzard person addressed some of these issues, but we just have to hunt it down. --Gengar orange 22x22Beware the sneaky smile! Fandyllic (talk · contr) 7:09 PM PST 18 Apr 2009
Well there are different categories. There are "mistakes", "retcons", "natural occurences", and then things just just "conflict". A mistake would be if we read something and it said "Stormwind City is the capital of Outland". We really know that statement is wrong due to 0 citations would agree with that statement. Something like "Magtheridon died", "Maiev died", Illidan died" would be a retcon since we found out later they were just "injured" or "defeated". Something like the name Azeroth being used in the far past as a name for some land north of Khaz Modan and then later the area being called Lordaeron could be a natural ocurrence. Remember, these are with citations not just guessing. Finally, there are just things that for now conflict so we put both in articles for a neutral point of view. Rolandius Paladin (talk - contr) 02:33, 19 April 2009 (UTC)
Rolandius while I do agree with you that is a possibility, you have just given a personal "interpretation" of how it might work. But that interpretation has never been confirmed. You would need to find a specific source stating as a fact that something was something before it was something else in the previous era, without it being your interpretation of the citation. In other words a quote that says, something to the affect of “Stormwind was once known as Azeroth before “insert event”, but was renamed Stormwind due to “blah blah””.
I also agree that throwing around the word "retcon" is also an interpretation and speculation, and is difficult to confirm as well. I am very loath to allow that term to be used in articles without specific citations to its use from those connected through Blizzard specifically. To use it otherwise is a form of analyzing and thus speculatory.
Interpretation and analyzing is a form of speculation. Information and descriptions from books can be used but without analyzing to keep things as neutral & minus speculation as possible.
What I'm saying is, its usually better to just state what was said in various sources, without putting any analysis into it, if possible. Looking at past discussions, and discussing this with both Rolandius and Ben, I've come notice that people have given several different interpretations on what various sources or individual sentences meant at any given time, and in relation to other sources. There isn't any way to come to any agreement with the various details. If there is disagreement from contradicting interpretations then there is no way that we can specify to any certain degree what the authors had originally meant. We need to avoid trying to analyze things. Analyzing things just represents one person's personal interpretation and opinion from another person's view. It may not "work perfectly" but "rolling most of it together" is at least better than introducing interpretations of details that may not necessarily confirmed. It may not be fully clear (the original sources aren’t fully clear) but it’s at least better one person trying to claim their interpretation is better than another person’s interpretation. Or having huge arguments because people disagree on how someone else interprets things.Baggins (talk) 02:35, 19 April 2009 (UTC)
Quoting sources has its pitfalls also (which someone will jump on you for), so you have to interpret by the mere act of paraphrasing. We need to be flexible and give some leeway, unless there is some clear error. This is a general problem I have with how some folks approach articles in the wiki as if they are personally injured when someone interprets slightly differently and an edit war starts. People need to be more sensitive to other people's viewpoints and that seems to be happening less and less. It's disheartening. --Gengar orange 22x22Beware the sneaky smile! Fandyllic (talk · contr) 8:13 PM PST 18 Apr 2009
Well I guess speculation is a broad area. It could be pure speculation or speculation due to interpretation by a user, even with citations. Rolandius Paladin (talk - contr) 03:28, 19 April 2009 (UTC)
I agree directly quoting is a difficult process as well, due to the fact it is possible to actually take quotes out of context of the original source,and copyright. I agree paraphrasing is needed. The trick is to avoid inserting too much interpretation through the paraphrase however. Generally speaking I think its safer to paraphrase from material that has been repeated in more than one source. If three or more sources give essentially the same history, then there is no reason to mention the one source that gives an opposing view. It might be noted in the "notes" section but doesn't need to be "incorporated" or made to fit into the main sections of the article by over-analyzing.
Exceptions to this is that in some cases there may be two versions of history given depending on which sources you look at, and each version might be supported 3 or more times. In such cases both versions of history would be shown in the article somehow. For example man'ari eredar article tells both Warcraft III version of their history, and the Rise of the Horde/TBC version of the their history. Centaur lists both versions of their heritage.
Clarity of the source? How specific or clear was the source at explaining what it wanted to say? Its sometimes better to take references that clearly define something or from an article that defines that subject than to take a comment from an off hand remark from an article that had nothing to do with the subject where you got the detail.Baggins (talk) 03:34, 19 April 2009 (UTC),
Well like I said, I did put a lot of stuff under "Speculation", or at most "Notes", versus the top of the article which I sometimes find "speculation" at. Rolandius Paladin (talk - contr) 03:49, 19 April 2009 (UTC)

Steam tank is out of date for WotLK?

You marked Steam tank as out of date, saying it "Needs update for Wrath of the Lich King." I assume this means that you want a list of/info about the new Alliance vehicles with the bolts on the front and the pistions on the sides. I think these may be Siege engines and not steam tanks. As noted on the siege engine page, in Stormwind Harbor, siege engines are shown being turned into the new types. Baggins added a while back to those two pages that they were about the same thing, and both things in WotLK share the same model regadless of name (Alliance Steam Tank, Reed's Steam Tank, Refurbished Steam Tank, Salvaged Siege Engine, Wintergrasp Siege Engine, Wrecked Siege Engine), so which page should the new ones be added to?--User:Sandwichman2448/Sig 22:30, 22 April 2009 (UTC)

I think it's a mistake to "convert" steam tanks into siege engines. Siege engine is a very generic term whereas a steam tank is what we see all around World of Warcraft. I'm concerned that if siege engine subsumes steam tank, but then Blizzard decides to make Horde-style "siege engines" that look nothing like steam tanks, then we'll just have to separate them again. Referring to stuff called <blah> Steam Engine in the Steam tank page seems fine to me. I did notice that according to Wowhead, the Alliance 15 Alliance Steam Tank does not share the same model as a Neutral 15 Wintergrasp Siege Engine, so I don't know where that rumor got started that all these things share the same model. --Gengar orange 22x22Beware the sneaky smile! Fandyllic (talk · contr) 11:26 AM PST 23 Apr 2009
I think steam tank is the broader term of the two. The models look the same for the Alliance Steam Tank and the Wintergrasp Siege Engine, unless I am looking wrong.--User:Sandwichman2448/Sig 20:26, 23 April 2009 (UTC)
Yeah, I guess they look the same. Siege Engine only appears more broad recently. According to this, the Horde ones just have a different color scheme. What kind of thing is a Combat 15 Flame Leviathan? I would throw this discussion to the Village pump and get feedback. --Gengar orange 22x22Beware the sneaky smile! Fandyllic (talk · contr) 5:55 PM PST 23 Apr 2009
Yeah, Blizz called the model a Siege Engine.[8] The Flame Leviathan seems to be an ancient reskin of the latest model Siege Engine. By throw, do you mean move or continue?--User:Sandwichman2448/Sig 01:33, 24 April 2009 (UTC)
Start something new, but ask whether we should call what is seen in Wrath-Logo-Small types of steam tanks or types of siege engines. --Gengar orange 22x22Beware the sneaky smile! Fandyllic (talk · contr) 3:59 PM PST 24 Apr 2009
Started.--User:Sandwichman2448/Sig 23:33, 24 April 2009 (UTC)


How were you capable of getting the images of these Pointer bag on 32x32Pointer mine off 32x32 (to name a few) so that you were able to photoshop them? And are you capable of getting the jump on a vehicle icon pointer? User:Coobra/Sig4 08:21, 26 April 2009 (UTC)

I just hand-edited a screenshot in photoshop. I will make a vehicle pointer. This is the curved arrow one, right? --Gengar orange 22x22Beware the sneaky smile! Fandyllic (talk · contr) 11:01 AM PST 27 Apr 2009
Yup thats the one. But how are you able to get the pointer in the screenshot? Is there certain setting you use, cause whenever I take a screenshot it completely ignores the cursor... User:Coobra/Sig4 21:49, 27 April 2009 (UTC)
Yeah, I think you have to switch to software cursor or turn off hardware cursor before you take the screenshot as I remember. The video settings have changed since I last did this, so I'll probably have to hunt a little bit to do it again, but it should still be doable. --Gengar orange 22x22Beware the sneaky smile! Fandyllic (talk · contr) 3:14 PM PST 27 Apr 2009
Not sure if you read my response on my talk page, but good places are the argent tournament grounds, and ulduar for uninterrupted time. As for the settings... I couldn't find those options in the video settings =( User:Coobra/Sig4 22:23, 30 April 2009 (UTC)

Sorry, I got a little impatient and went ahead got them, since you told me how SmileyPointer mount on 32x32 Pointer mount off 32x32, but feel free to upload new versions if you can make them cleaner/better. I plan to use the green one for articles on npcs or vehicles that can be mounted with {{Mount}}. User:Coobra/Sig4 05:26, 3 May 2009 (UTC)

Yours look very nice. I made a few attempts to get the screenshots, but then I got very busy and didn't have a chance to get them. I couldn't get a vehicle cursor in Ulduar, although I went in there. Maybe it needs a real raid, quest, or some special item. --Gengar orange 22x22Beware the sneaky smile! Fandyllic (talk · contr) 11:40 AM PST 4 May 2009
You have to speak to the stonewatcher guy in front the stairs to start the event, to allow you to mount up =P. User:Coobra/Sig4 20:41, 4 May 2009 (UTC)

Bring Down Those Shields

I think that quest, and actually some others which I didn't include, tell you how the Scourge are creating "more of their kind" like the Mur'ghouls with Scourging Crystals. Rolandius Paladin (talk - contr) 06:10, 28 April 2009 (UTC)

Too vague. More of their own kind could mean any scourge, not specifically Murloc to Mur'ghoul. --Gengar orange 22x22Beware the sneaky smile! Fandyllic (talk · contr) 11:12 PM PST 27 Apr 2009
I guess so. Although, the Mur'ghoul (ex. Rotgill) are all over the beach where the quest is and some normal murlocs are nearby (ex. Old Icefin). Rolandius Paladin (talk - contr) 06:25, 28 April 2009 (UTC)
There are also those wraith-like mobs. No mention about how they came about, but it could be the crystals also. --Gengar orange 22x22Beware the sneaky smile! Fandyllic (talk · contr) 11:27 AM PST 28 Apr 2009

buffs and debuff mouse over

Hi, I am new to editing and creating pages on wowwiki. I have Been a user for over 2 years but finally decided to add something. So one thing i really want on the page i am making is a way to have mouse over popups for buffs and debuffs. You can do it for items and npcs and quests and all kinds of other things... what about buffs?

thanks -- Manhamer (talk) 07:26, 29 April 2009 (UTC)

I think it is on our list to support abilities, buffs/debuffs, and spells as tooltips. You should leave a message on Pcj's talk page asking if he's thought about tooltips for buffs and other things, since he implemented our other tooltip mechanisms in Javascript. He might have some ideas on a workaround until it is implemented more generally. --Gengar orange 22x22Beware the sneaky smile! Fandyllic (talk · contr) 11:28 AM PST 29 Apr 2009

Formal review of Rolandius

Rule six of the rules regarding Rolandius and the mentorship states that the rules themselves were "...subject to review at the end of November, or at any time if we see them to not be working quite as intended." I think we should review Rolandius and the mentoring rules now, because it is getting back to the stage where users are getting increasingly displeased with him.[9][10] Last time, there was no review, only a ban of Rolandius without it. You said yourself that "the rules are probably due for a review". I ask that you consider starting a formal review of your mentee, possibly in the form of an open forum or a vote, in order to decide the best course of action for him.--User:Sandwichman2448/Sig 21:27, 30 April 2009 (UTC)

Although I understand your motivation, it seems unfair to put the burden on me to create this process when you (or possibly others) are asking for it. If you want the review, you should start it. I'm fine with giving input on a review, but I have no motivation to start it. I will also remind you that I'm only the mentor now because Sky gave it up. In a day or two I will start a discussion for it, but I'm not going to put alot of work into it. --Gengar orange 22x22Beware the sneaky smile! Fandyllic (talk · contr) 2:41 PM PST 30 Apr 2009
I respect your desire to not be the one who starts this. I will do it, but do you have any suggestions on how it should be run?--User:Sandwichman2448/Sig 22:01, 30 April 2009 (UTC)
Before you start, you should get an admin, like Coobra to sponsor your effort, since technically this kind of review should be started by an admin. Also an admin can send an e-mail out to the admin CC list (or additionally on IRC) so people who check there will know to participate.
When you have an idea of what you want to say, you can put your proposal on User talk:Rolandius/Mentor and point to this discussion as your approval to put the proposal there. --Gengar orange 22x22Beware the sneaky smile! Fandyllic (talk · contr) 3:25 PM PST 30 Apr 2009
I agree. It should be started by an admin. I have talked to a few already. I tried to get Coobra, but he was not on IRC when I was. By "proposal" do you mean what I said above, or my review of Rolandius?--User:Sandwichman2448/Sig 22:30, 30 April 2009 (UTC)
Well, maybe you should separate it into a list of recent issues with Rolandius and a proposal for new or different rules. --Gengar orange 22x22Beware the sneaky smile! Fandyllic (talk · contr) 3:38 PM PST 30 Apr 2009
It is done. See User_talk:Rolandius/Mentor#Review.--User:Sandwichman2448/Sig 01:13, 1 May 2009 (UTC)


Woohoo! I ain't alone on people who've seen my WoWWiki page for DWMM.

I got mentioned on Apt-T's podcast cause of it... TWICE :)

Anyway, I will make the Frank and Beans WoWWiki when i get a chance (soon though) :P

Kranitoko - Silvermoon EU (talk) 20:46, 4 May 2009 (UTC)

Grats. I indirectly know the person behind Stone Falcon Productions (friend of my bro-in-law), maker of Snacky's Journal, and did some extra work in some of her stuff. Always good to have info about fun WoW machinima on WoWWiki. --Gengar orange 22x22Beware the sneaky smile! Fandyllic (talk · contr) 1:54 PM PST 4 May 2009
I've been tempted to watch Snacky's Journal, but I've never really had a chance. By the way, I've updated the Apt-T Productions page... ALOT :P LOL Kranitoko - Silvermoon EU (talk) 21:31, 4 May 2009 (UTC)
By the way, wouldn't it be easier to remove all the talks on this page so there is room for more, instead of people always having to scroll down :P Just an idea Kranitoko - Silvermoon EU (talk) 22:19, 4 May 2009 (UTC)

Aisamar images

I'm not sure about all the images, but Aisamar did try to use some of them, replacing images in the infoboxes with them. See here and here. User:Coobra/Sig4 21:09, 4 May 2009 (UTC)

Hmmm do we have some kind of fan art gallery? --Gengar orange 22x22Beware the sneaky smile! Fandyllic (talk · contr) 5:41 PM PST 4 May 2009
We've been told fan art should be moved to the discussion pages, if anything. There was an exception... but I can't remember what. User:Coobra/Sig4 02:06, 5 May 2009 (UTC)
We usually only post fanart that's been on Blizzard's site first, because we didn't want people to start using us as a hosting service. Any exceptions would have to be of exceptional quality...--Ragestorm (talk · contr) 02:29, 5 May 2009 (UTC)
Hmmm maybe it's time that we can handle a fan art gallery. People are going to upload fan art for their personal pages anyway. I'll bring it up on the Village pump. We'll have to have some strict guidelines and limit the size. --Gengar orange 22x22Beware the sneaky smile! Fandyllic (talk · contr) 8:29 AM PST 5 May 2009
Not yet, I haven't had time to think about decent proposal. --Gengar orange 22x22Beware the sneaky smile! Fandyllic (talk · contr) 12:44 PM PST 20 May 2009
Did you ever bring this up on the pump? or I guess now the forums? User:Coobra/Sig4 19:41, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

Frank & Beans

Frank & Beans. :)

There we go! All made. Not as good as DWMM but it's a start. The episode list is on the main page just to boost the pages length. When more episodes are added, i will start thinking on moving the episodes to their own episode list page. :) Kranitoko - Silvermoon EU (talk) 18:14, 5 May 2009 (UTC)

Security Guide

If you have time, could you please look at the (significantly) revised Security_guide and suggest any changes that need making on the talk page? In particular, a suggestion for a boilerplate (if appropriate) would be appreciated. Many thanks! Tequima (talk) 16:50, 21 May 2009 (UTC)

Looks good. I advertised the Security guide for people to further review and update at: Forum:Please review and contribute to Security guide. --Gengar orange 22x22Beware the sneaky smile! Fandyllic (talk · contr) 7:03 PM PST 21 May 2009

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