Previous discussions archived:


Hospital and charity, but nevermind: WoWWiki:Don't bite the noobs! xD

IconSmall Hamuul Loremaster A'noob, Arch Druid of the Noobhoof Clan (talk/contribz) 19:39, January 13, 2010 (UTC)

If you're referring to The Last Alterac, he's been here since '07. -- Dark T Zeratul (talk) 19:52, January 13, 2010 (UTC)

Gunship Battle

What didn't you like about my last changes there (I generally like it when others write a short reason when they revert my changes)? --Batox (talk) 12:45, January 15, 2010 (UTC)

Sorry, it didn't prompt me to enter an explanation for some reason. You removed most of the abilities, and most of your "this is just fun and easy" comments I think tend to fall under NPOV and were replacing some factual information. -- Dark T Zeratul (talk) 18:35, January 15, 2010 (UTC)

Just so you know for future reference, and I'm sorry I didn't tell you this before, but you can simply move a page back to a redirect without the need for deletions if no edits have been done to the redirect page. =P User:Coobra/Sig4 21:00, January 15, 2010 (UTC)

I didn't know that. Thanks for pointing it out! -- Dark T Zeratul (talk) 22:06, January 15, 2010 (UTC)

Re: Working as Intended

I just took a software quality class and that's the term I was given for that situation. This is coming from a professor that's worked on one of those boards, so maybe different companies use different terms. KWSN (talk) 06:13, February 3, 2010 (UTC)

I dunno about your professor, but during my tenure in the game industry I've never heard of "Working As Intended" as meaning anything other than what it sounds like. -- Dark T Zeratul (talk) 06:15, February 3, 2010 (UTC)
"Working as Intended", in my experience, is a synonym for "As per Design" or "Not a Bug". While "Known Shippable" seems self explanatory, it is not a term I had encountered before. (It does appear on Google search, though.) "Will Not Fix" (from the Bugzilla bug tracking software) has the same idea, but without reference to releasability. --Eirik Ratcatcher (talk) 21:00, February 3, 2010 (UTC)
-shrugs- Either way I'm sure that's the message they wanted to say, they know it doesn't work, but at the moment can't do anything immediate about it. KWSN (talk) 22:40, February 3, 2010 (UTC)
When the informed/colloquial meaning of the message is at odds with the uninformed/intuitive meaning, you get issues like this. They rely on the ambiguity of the phrase to avoid promising feature changes. They get called on that weaseling. --Eirik Ratcatcher (talk) 00:25, February 4, 2010 (UTC)

Inexplicable reversion

I realize it‘s kind of absurdly late to ask, but this is the first time I’ve really checked up on my past edits… why did you revert my edit here two months ago? All I did was add commas that were missing from an apposition (“…the native speakers, elementals, are…”). The sentence didn’t really make sense as it was written. —Frungi (talk) 23:27, February 11, 2010 (UTC)

He followed with a series of other changes, ending by putting "elementals" in parenthesis. Upshot? He agreed that it didn't make sense, disagreed on your format. Beyond that, I won't put words in his mouth. --Eirik Ratcatcher (talk) 23:45, February 11, 2010 (UTC)
Right, but what I don’t understand is the reverting in between. —Frungi (talk) 01:09, February 12, 2010 (UTC)
I can't promise that I can recall exactly why I reverted something two months ago, but I think I probably completely misread your edit. -- Dark T Zeratul (talk) 08:30, February 12, 2010 (UTC)

Your views solicited

... for Forum:"(class) set" vs "(class) armor set" this discussion. --Eirik Ratcatcher (talk) 19:16, February 18, 2010 (UTC)

Combining NPC pages

I hesitate to speak up on your forum topic on this. I've been shot down repeatedly for that heresy, as I think you've seen. People who want the wiki to be a database site, or who don't discern the difference. Afraid even this comment might jinx it simply for my history. --Eirik Ratcatcher (talk) 23:38, February 22, 2010 (UTC)


How is this section useful to anyone?--K ) (talk) 22:15, February 25, 2010 (UTC)

Hm... On further reflection, it probably isn't. I'm removing it. -- Dark T Zeratul (talk) 22:15, February 25, 2010 (UTC)

Halion image

Reading over Forum:The Ruby Sanctum map and the DNP policy even more caused me to think that you were correct in thinking that the image was a violation of policy based on what Kaydeethree said after the outdent. You confused me. The current DNP policy (changed per the discussion) falls in line with my original interpretation. Halion is announced as existing. I will keep it deleted only because of the spam in the background.--SWM2448 23:40, March 25, 2010 (UTC)

Halion is announced as existing, but his model cannot be accessed in game and can only be seen with third-party tools. My understand of the discussion was that exemptions were only being made for images that could be extracted via officially released means (such as Blizzard's UI tool), and Halion's model does not fall under that category (nor, while we're on the subject, do the unreleased model of Anduin Wrynn, several unavailable mounts that were added to the database, and the quests for the retaking of Gnomeregan and the Echo Isles). -- Dark T Zeratul (talk) 23:59, March 25, 2010 (UTC)
The DNP policy says "Only articles about announced content existing on the live or public test clients are permitted." and "While datamined images of live or PTR content are permissible, "true" in-game screenshots are preferred and will always be given preference over datamined content." I assume that "announced" has been clarified (such as on the policy talk page), but I define "existing on the ... public test clients" as existing in the game files that come with the test client. Kaydeethree's stance on the forum thread seems to have been closer to how the DNP policy was previously enforced with an added clause about tools provided by Blizzard, but the current wording of the policy itself allows for the Halion image in question.--SWM2448 00:21, March 26, 2010 (UTC)
Continuing this at the forum, since it seems better suited for there. -- Dark T Zeratul (talk) 00:37, March 26, 2010 (UTC)

Sons of Hodir

I see I've got a fan... or a stalker, not sure which. :) --Eirik Ratcatcher (talk) 18:21, April 6, 2010 (UTC)

Nah, just somehow who looks at the Recent Changes list. -- Dark T Zeratul (talk) 18:26, April 6, 2010 (UTC)


Thank you, that does sound better. =P User:Coobra/Sig4 00:55, April 15, 2010 (UTC)


Your advice is required here and there.


IconSmall Hamuul Loremaster A'noob, Arch Druid of the Noobhoof Clan (talk/contribz) 18:57, April 17, 2010 (UTC)

Your opinion is requested here as well. --Eirik Ratcatcher (talk) 23:47, April 29, 2010 (UTC)


I am amused that I could be of service pointing out articles that were stubs, to be further examined... :) --Eirik Ratcatcher (talk) 19:35, April 30, 2010 (UTC)

I'm guessing that you're one of the folks consolidating pages (where NPC X appears in different locations in the world and we had previously had separate pages)? And yes, the icecrown daily quests do come in two flavors... they are identical except for the raid size noted in the quest long. Same ID and everything! :) --Eirik Ratcatcher (talk) 01:23, May 13, 2010 (UTC)

Onyxia achievement

While I agree with you in theory (that the Onyxia-60 cannot be achieved now), there was a question about being able to get it anyway on the page for that specific achievement. You should take a look. --Eirik Ratcatcher (talk) 22:21, June 4, 2010 (UTC)

Dealing with Vandals

I'm rather curious as to what to do... After I undo their crap, when should I slap them on the page? After the second or third one? And I've warned 'em on their talk page? Tanooki1432 (talk) 23:53, June 10, 2010 (UTC)

First time. Then it's up to the admins to decide what to do with them. -- Dark T Zeratul (talk) 23:55, June 10, 2010 (UTC)


Per your comment here, that is a "feature" of the Monaco "add/edit gallery" button. --PcjGamepedia wiki manager (TDrop me a line!C58,977 contributions and counting) 00:15, June 22, 2010 (UTC)

Ah, I did not know that. Thanks. -- Dark T Zeratul (talk) 00:16, June 22, 2010 (UTC)

Hawkstrider image overload

You added an icon to the {{item}} reference for the Swift White Hawkstrider. Given that it's the same icon used for the achievement, I think that to be a silly thing. However, I don't find an icon at that location to be particularly useful even absent the icon similarity. --Eirik Ratcatcher (talk) 17:42, June 28, 2010 (UTC)

Cataclysm maps

Kaydeethree has already uploaded some of the same maps as you - check the upload log. - Sikon (talk) 06:10, July 1, 2010 (UTC)

Ah, she did that as I was preparing to upload mine. Darn, beaten to the punch. Oh well. -- Dark T Zeratul (talk) 06:17, July 1, 2010 (UTC)
The typos you found in the map names are in the WoW files themselves, it was previously decided to match the internal names of these files instead of the "correct" names. Also, please identify what the file is a duplicate of when you flag it for speedy deletion. --PcjGamepedia wiki manager (TDrop me a line!

C58,977 contributions and counting) 19:06, July 1, 2010 (UTC)

A quick peek through the Upload log would show you that all of those files are maps previously uploaded by other people (mostly Kaydeethree). Do you really need me to edit every single one to point exactly to the duplicate file? -- Dark T Zeratul (talk) 19:19, July 1, 2010 (UTC)
If you want them deleted. --PcjGamepedia wiki manager (TDrop me a line!

C58,977 contributions and counting) 19:31, July 1, 2010 (UTC)

This isn't about me simply "wanting" something deleted; they're duplicates of files uploaded less than 24 hours prior.. Requiring that they be edited in a specific way just so they can be removed seems overly bureaucratic and unnecessary. -- Dark T Zeratul (talk) 19:34, July 1, 2010 (UTC)
I need to be able to verify easily that these are actually duplicates. Simply marking which files they are duplicates of when you flag them is the quickest and easiest (least "red tape") for both of us. --PcjGamepedia wiki manager (TDrop me a line!

C58,977 contributions and counting) 19:38, July 1, 2010 (UTC)

I'm not sure where the duplicate for File:Kezan cataclysm.jpg is. I can't find it in the recently uploaded. I don't think it exists... unless I'm just overlooking something. Could you point it out purdy please? User:Coobra/Sig4 20:45, July 1, 2010 (UTC)

Well first of all, PCJ, I agree; I should have listed the duplicates when I put the SD tag on. However, most of those duplicates were able to be easily verified with just a quick peek at the upload log, as Coobra apparently did; editing them after the fact the point out the duplicates seemed a bit unnecessary. On the other hand, I will also admit that I did screw up a bit; the Kezan map, amazingly, was not actually a duplicate file. I've removed the deletion tag accordingly. -- Dark T Zeratul (talk) 21:00, July 1, 2010 (UTC)
Ah, ok then, I'll just move it to what I'll assume is the correct name. If kay uploads under a different name, I'm sure it will be the correct one. User:Coobra/Sig4 21:06, July 1, 2010 (UTC)
Blizz still has some typos in filenames, currently Azshara, Hillsbrad and Darnassus among others. If it's a typo in the game files we'll just have to adjust for it (like we always have) in the templates referring to them. --k_d3

Question about a source...again.

Can I use one of Blue Plz youtube videos as a source or no? Decepticons rule!!! All hail Megatron!!! Rimor Conscientia (talk) 04:54, July 11, 2010 (UTC)

I'm not familiar with those videos at all, but I'm going to venture a guess and say probably not. -- Dark T Zeratul (talk) 07:09, July 11, 2010 (UTC)

Where did you get the templates for ur user page?

hey can u plz tell me where i can get some templates. im a new contributer and would like to give my page a little pizzaz. TY... Dethlock555

WoWWiki:List of user templates -- Dark T Zeratul (talk) 17:32, July 14, 2010 (UTC)


Is Cho'gall currently accessible? TherasTaneel (talk) 21:17, July 14, 2010 (UTC)

No. None of the raids are in-game yet. -- Dark T Zeratul (talk) 21:19, July 14, 2010 (UTC)
Oh, that's how it is. Thanks. TherasTaneel (talk) 21:21, July 14, 2010 (UTC)
Lady Naz'jar is, though, so that image (and that image alone) should have been retained. -- Dark T Zeratul (talk) 21:22, July 14, 2010 (UTC)

Blood Princes

I see you changed on of my edits. I am curious, do I need to reword stuff I get from Boss Killers? I am trying to have the page explain the Vortexes, while understanding it myself. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Oldragnar (talkcontr).

It's not a good idea to simply copy/paste strategies from other sites; that's called plagiarism. Feel free to add to the existing strategy sections if you feel they don't do a good enough job explaining things, but don't just copy text straight from another website. Write it yourself. -- Dark T Zeratul (talk) 00:04, July 15, 2010 (UTC)
Are you and/or WoWWiki running software that detects that? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Oldragnar (talkcontr).
No, but there are enough people who use WoWWiki who are familiar enough with Boss Killers that they would notice. Even if there weren't, "no one will find out" is a really poor excuse for plagiarism. Don't do it. On a side note, please sign your posts on talk pages by using four tildes (~) -- Dark T Zeratul (talk) 00:16, July 15, 2010 (UTC)

Token efforts

Damn, man. That's a lot of pages, and a lot of editing! Thanks! --Eirik Ratcatcher (talk) 19:27, July 16, 2010 (UTC)

It's been surprisingly slow at work. -- Dark T Zeratul (talk) 19:28, July 16, 2010 (UTC)


For almost two years now, I have added the captions to pictures based on feedback from system operators. I will continue to do so. Should you be interested in removing the captions, please discuss with User:Coobra, User:Pcj and User:Kaydeethree

Thank you.

Ariule (talk)

It feels extraordinarily unnecessary. A picture of the item in question is good. Using the caption to tell everyone what it is, what race is wearing it, and what the background is feels extremely redundant when the name of the item is obvious from the page, and the rest is obvious simply by looking at the picture. Have you also noticed how many of your files have had their filenames truncated to just the item name without the "Night Elf female, Snow Background" bit? -- Dark T Zeratul (talk) 17:07, July 17, 2010 (UTC)
Thank, you for your opinion. When I first starting posting pics, a Sysop told me the files names were too generic, from then on, there has been no question about them. In addition, there were several images that were uploaded, then deleted as it was felt I was using an offline editor against the ToA, such is not the case. The file name explicitly describes the content. Is there a location on the wiki where standards are discussed for such things? I have been unable to locate such a document, but would be interested in reading it. Wiki format is great that we can all edit and add our views, however, underlying structure and organization is of course key.
Ariule (talk)

Alchemy lab

Right... Acherus. I knew that. Sure. Just testing ya. Bah. You kids, and your new-fangled zones... --Eirik Ratcatcher (talk) 22:40, July 20, 2010 (UTC)

Edit count

It's over nine thousaaaaaaaaaand! -- Dark T Zeratul (talk) 00:26, July 22, 2010 (UTC)

Hey there!

Um, I doubt you remember me (probably a good thing), but we chatted on MSN about six or seven years ago, and I kinda wanted to get back in touch, if only to apologize for what a dingbat I was back then. :P Is that possible? --Yuefairchild (talk) 09:35, July 24, 2010 (UTC)

Lower or Upper Case

I noticed you moved back some insignia of the alliance I had moved in the other way second before.

The general "habbit" seems to be Lower Case for item:

Maybe we should ask for a vote on a policy for all those cases?

IconSmall Hamuul Loremaster A'noob, Arch Druid of the Noobhoof Clan (talk/contribz) 22:36, July 30, 2010 (UTC)

I actually didn't notice that you'd done the moving until afterwards; since there were only a couple of them (and not all of them moved by you, as it turned out) I thought it was just an inconsistency and put them to upper-case so they'd be consistent with each other. That being said, I think class disambiguations have generally been done in upper-case. -- Dark T Zeratul (talk) 22:39, July 30, 2010 (UTC)
Yeah nevermind, I just looked at Royal Seal of Eldre'Thalas and every one has Upper Case.
IconSmall Hamuul Loremaster A'noob, Arch Druid of the Noobhoof Clan (talk/contribz) 22:49, July 30, 2010 (UTC)
Doesn't mean they're right... --Eirik Ratcatcher (talk) 20:57, August 2, 2010 (UTC)

Key to Scholomance chain

Thanks for the corrections on group vs not group. Thanks also for pointing out that I'd not marked the first quest as a breadcrumb. Don't mind me... it's hot here, I'm grumpy and thirsty... --Eirik Ratcatcher (talk) 22:53, August 3, 2010 (UTC)

Article Naming

Sorry for bothering you, but can you give me a tip about naming articles. I've written an article and named it, but when I log back in later, It's been moved and renamed to user:kraljevic marko/Yorgg. How can I rename it, or atleast link that article to the name Yorgg so it could be found easier in search? Thanks in advance! —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Kraljevic Marko (talkcontr).

Personal fanfic pages are always subpages of user pages; only official canon lore gets articles in the main namespace. -- Dark T Zeratul (talk) 00:07, August 31, 2010 (UTC)

Article Naming again

Sorry for keep pressing the subject (yet thanks for answering the first question), but I've received a message saying : 'Note that you can create links like "Brem Thunderfist" by using the wiki markup Brem Thunderfist'. My question is, where can I place the markup so this article would be easier to access? Thanks again in advance! Kraljevic Marko

I'm... Not really sure I understand your question. -- Dark T Zeratul (talk) 06:40, August 31, 2010 (UTC)
If i understand right, he wants to link his fanfiction on a page in the "main" namespace of wowwiki, and is asking where... and im pretty sure the answer is nowhere. Keep it on your profile, and nowhere else. Having a link to it on your user page is good enough.--Sheffi (talk) 06:44, August 31, 2010 (UTC)

Defiler's Plate, et al

Had not noticed that those were limited to warriors and paladins. Thought they were unkeyed. Good catch. --Eirik Ratcatcher (talk) 22:21, September 1, 2010 (UTC)

.. though interesting you did not add the Highlander's Plate Girdle (level 40) to categories similarly. --Eirik Ratcatcher (talk) 22:22, September 1, 2010 (UTC)
Only the highest-level versions are set pieces. -- Dark T Zeratul (talk) 22:23, September 1, 2010 (UTC)

patch dates

In cases like Yellow Qiraji Resonating Crystal then, where you changed it, how would I know? -=- IconSmall DrakeAzure Drazisil [t/c] 21:32, September 9, 2010 (UTC)

Careful analyzation of the patch notes. In this case, the Yellow Qiraji Resonating Crystal drops in the Temple of Ahn'Qiraj, which was added in patch 1.9. Therefore, all creatures and items within the instance were also added in patch 1.9. Ultimately, if you're not sure, leave it blank; I'll get to it eventually. -- Dark T Zeratul (talk) 21:37, September 9, 2010 (UTC)
1.11 being Original Naxx, I'm guessing you're probably right. Doesn't mean that things never get added to an instance after the fact, though. --Eirik Ratcatcher (talk) 22:00, September 9, 2010 (UTC)
True, but those are typically special cases. Ultimately, if you're using Wowhead for patch dates and it says 1.11, you need to verify whether or not it was actually added in patch 1.11. -- Dark T Zeratul (talk) 22:02, September 9, 2010 (UTC)

On a separate patch issue, I've backfilled at least one case where "the last known patch reference" states something that no longer obtains. I can't say WHEN the change happened, but I can unequivocally state that "t has since been changed". --Eirik Ratcatcher (talk) 18:25, September 10, 2010 (UTC)

That's probably because I'm working forward through the patches, so the newer changes aren't listed yet. -- Dark T Zeratul (talk) 02:57, September 14, 2010 (UTC)

Quest pages, in the future

Can you put the patch changes above the progression? Thanks. --Sky (t · c) 20:35, September 14, 2010 (UTC)

Whats Up

hey dude whats up? i see you update lots of stuff here today. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 4odd9even (talkcontr).

Um... OK? -- Dark T Zeratul (talk) 01:28, September 15, 2010 (UTC)

Alchemy 'stuff'

I just realized now that I missed adding the patch & hotfix sections to everything I've done tonight.. TY TY for going back and editing them in. Resa1983 (talk) 03:02, September 18, 2010 (UTC)


Living Monstrosity. User:Coobra/Sig4 03:30, September 22, 2010 (UTC)

Oh. I think I completely missed the (original) disambig tag. Still, I didn't think we were splitting the Naxx mobs since they have the same ID and everything. -- Dark T Zeratul (talk) 03:33, September 22, 2010 (UTC)
Yea, I thought about just updating.. but then decided, maybe people want to see past info, so I just moved it and created a new one. User:Coobra/Sig4 03:35, September 22, 2010 (UTC)
Nothing changed except its health and level, though. -- Dark T Zeratul (talk) 03:36, September 22, 2010 (UTC)


Why did oyu reverted my changes at Zeppelin page? Ogrim's hammer is perfectly known, it can not be any other zeppelin.... —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Rawen666 (talkcontr).

I didn't revert it, it was reverted back to the last version which was edited by me. But to answer your question, it's referring to the Alliance version in which Varok Saurfang does not arrive via the Orgrim's Hammer (which was recently shot down) but via an unnamed zeppelin. What's more, the Orgrim's Hammer is not a zeppelin but a gunship. -- Dark T Zeratul (talk) 04:51, October 11, 2010 (UTC)
Allies ruin everything -.-" —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Rawen666 (talkcontr).

Ironforge Airfield

Haven't checked that part of the world yet, but does it actually say "Ironforge Airfield" now when flying over it in 4.0.1 live? If not, it should be changed to 4.0.3. - Sikon (talk) 04:45, October 15, 2010 (UTC)

I don't know, I only changed it because it said 4.0.0, which isn't a real patch number. -- Dark T Zeratul (talk) 05:00, October 15, 2010 (UTC)
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