{{subst:welcome}}Again, welcome!   --Tarog (talk) {{subst:CURRENTTIME}}, {{subst:CURRENTDAY}} {{subst:CURRENTMONTHNAME}} {{subst:CURRENTYEAR}} (UTC)

DnD Borrowing

I'm glad you agree with me about the heavy amounts of DnD borrowing in the Warcraft RPG which doesn't fit the Warcraft Universe at times. --- User:TopDread 19:22, 17 May 2006 (EDT)


When you sign your statements use four tildes ~~~~ on the upper left of your keyboard. It automatically adds your user name. --- User:TopDread

If you're lazy like me, I've found three tildes ~~~ also works... ;-) --Fandyllic 11:04 AM PDT 19 May 2006


Angry ogre

Despite Fandy's comments, please use four tildes (~~~~), so that we can track comment times. Thank you.  Kirkburn talk contr 01:46, 10 February 2007 (EST)


After discussion on the talk page, the descision was reached to remove the tragic flaw line, as is was proven incorrect. In future, please discuss your complaints before you edit. --Ragestorm 23:27, 9 November 2006 (EST)

Please see Talk:Draenei controversy.--Ragestorm (talk · contr) 22:29, 18 January 2007 (EST)

Brann is actually pretty neutral

Also I highly doubt authors are have alliance bias but more like earth human bias, LOL. The authors are human its alot easier to write from our own earth POV.

Plus if you actually read Brann's writing he is alot more neutral than any other alliance member, he's friends with trolls, orcs, whoever. He just dislikes certain individuals, when there is a good reason, and he's willing to cuss out the alliance if there is something wrong with them. He does it alot in his writing.Baggins 15:02, 1 January 2007 (EST)

Its pretty hard for a dwarf to tell you a completly unbiased view of the orcs,creatures who they have hard for conflict with for years. Dwarves live a long time,the events of the first and second war are probably still fresh in his mind. He will obviously support the alliance over the horde due to the fact that he is essentially a member of the alliance,the brother of the king of the dwarves infact. Think of it this way,would you want a forest troll telling the history of the high elves? Angry ogre

It's not really written by a dwarf, though, is it? Yes, the authors are pretending to write it as being Brann, but that doesn't preclude them from writing essentially neutrally - I don't believe the authors falsify important info in order to keep up the pretence it is dwarven written.  Kirkburn talk contr 01:18, 22 January 2007 (EST)

"Biased propaganda"

Taking a look at your edits, it is obvious there is only one person biased about Drek'Thar, and it is you. You have removed citations, copied content from a website known for 'embellishing' details (and reads quite obviously as horde-biased), and continually engage in edit wars to get your point across. Have you read the RPG books? I should also mention a lack of reference to something in a novel is not the same as saying something didn't exist. Also, if you're going to complain about someone's edits ot reverts, at least have the courtesy to complain to the right person (i.e. not Baggins).  Kirkburn talk contr 01:00, 22 January 2007 (EST)

Either way,the Dwarves have definetly not lived in Alterac valley,now Alterac mountains is another story. Angry ogre

How are you so definite on the first point (notwithstanding that you may be right)?  Kirkburn talk contr 01:19, 22 January 2007 (EST)

Because if what was written was the true,the Alliance would have known of the Frostwolves a lot sooner,The Frostwolves probably would not have settled being too tired for a big conflict,and Lord of the clans makes no mention of Dwarves in alterac valley. Not to mention it makes no sense, how could Orcs invade their own valley? Angry ogre

Editing old comments

Please don't edit old comments - it ruins the flow and sense of a discussion. If you need to clarify something, do it in a follow-up post, please. If you substantially edit reasonably old comments again, I will have to revert it to preserve my sanity :)  Kirkburn talk contr 18:05, 23 January 2007 (EST)

Rumored races

Don't attempt to slip in biased comments like that. It is not appreciated.  Kirkburn talk contr 01:59, 25 January 2007 (EST)


Recently, you've been good about keeping your opinions to the talk pages, so I'm giving you a warning on this: if you think the argument is flawed, discuss on the talk page to reach a consensus about how it should be addressed. I'm more than willing to entertain the idea that M'uru isn't a martyr, but only if it's done properly. --Ragestorm (talk · contr) 23:28, 6 February 2007 (EST)

Horde and blood elf discussion

If you'd like to discuss this topic further, you may do so here, as your talk page is pretty much your own territory unless it gets particularly ugly. However, overstated claims regarding the evil nature of the blood elves or further discussion based solely on your opinion regarding them will be removed from talk pages. Please keep that discussion here. // Montagg (talk · contr) 23:19, 13 February 2007 (EST)

ways Metzen could fix the horde current problem

Here are things Metzen could do to fix the horde problem. Of course he won't do it.

1.Make the Draenei commit some great crime,this would also distance the draenei from Mary sues(chosen by gods,Infalliable,have fancy techonology,Main bad guy obessed with them,related to the main badguy,have inate powers over the light,physically flawless. These are all traits one finds in Mary sues. Definetly a race of complete Mary sues).

2.Give horde real paladins instead of the idiotic mockladins(its basicaly a class requirement to be evil).

3.Give Alliance a race like the Forsaken and blood elves.

4.Give Horde a non evil race like Mok'nathal or ogres

Too bad Metzen is too busy counting money and thinking of ways to get more of it. Angry ogre 00:59, 21 February 2007 (EST)

/sigh/... you idiot.
1.Draenei are not mary sues, or have you forgotten Ereder were orginially Draenei?
2.How are they not paladins?
3.In comparision the Alliance is the more sinister/underhanded of the two factions
4.All Horde races are non-evil. Hordesupporter 00:21, 27 March 2007 (EDT)

Hold up a moment... draenei are mary-sues? How are they physically flawless, for one thing? I wouldn't consider a big blue muscular dude with a bony head-plate, weird little tentacles growing out of his face, and a tail physically flawless. Furthermore, the draenei do not need to commit any "great crime" to not be "flawless" by any standards. And, let me ask, how are they infallible? I've seen draenei ostracize their Broken cousins from time to time, among other things. Drakonrage 00:16, 11 February 2008 (UTC)

Logic? Here?!? Kirkburn talk contr 00:41, 27 March 2007 (EDT)

NOOOO! Repent! Repent for your sins! This is the final sign of the apocolypse! Truly judgement day has come! Hordesupporter 01:39, 27 March 2007 (EDT)

The two of you do realize that A) he's not even reading this and B) are reviving a horrific discussion after a month of peace? --Ragestorm (talk · contr) 19:56, 27 March 2007 (EDT)

Please... Ogre's gonna bitch about this until Blizzard comes out and says "Blood Elves are not evil." Hordesupporter 01:27, 5 April 2007 (EDT)

I couldn't agree with you more. I love blood elves, but they should be part of the alliance! Thats why until they rejoin, I am a high elf =3 Alliance 15 ?? Quest Giver Troy Frostwind, High Elf 16:41, 12 January 2008 (UTC)


Talk:Chris_Metzen - if I see more trolling attempts like that when your comments have been specifically moved I will make sure you are flagged as vandal. I'm getting fed up of all the time hearing people complaining about you - I have better to do than talking about useless edits. --Adys 02:42, 21 February 2007 (EST)

Regarding my user page, your comment was removed because I have given up trying to reason with you. If you want to argue at length about hypothetical situations, use a forums. Here, it just frustrates everyone who is trying to spend their time improving the wiki.  Kirkburn talk contr 05:39, 22 February 2007 (EST)


This is a warning, do not alter quotes, again. Baggins 00:29, 20 March 2007 (EDT)

Just to clarify Baggins' point - if something is quoted directly from an RPG guide, do not change it, otherwise it's no longer a quote. Kirkburn talk contr 10:42, 20 March 2007 (EDT)
Since you (once again) completely ignored our warnings you are banned for a week. I hope you learn how to interact with other people in your time away. Kirkburn talk contr 17:59, 20 March 2007 (EDT)

Goblinoid (old restored comments)

"Why would orcs and ogres count as goblinoids? Their from another planet and are complety different from goblinoids. Orcs,Ogres and Dranei should be in their own species catagory called Draenor refugees. --"

Actually there is no contradiction goblinoid doesn't mean they are related, it just means they share some phyisical similarities(example for the case of orcs and goblins, "green skin")... Its same kind of word as the word "Humanoid". Humanoid doesn't mean races are related to humans. It only means that races share similar physical characteristics with humans.Baggins 02:06, 14 May 2006 (EDT)

Goblins are nothing are like orcs in Warcraft. The only similartiy is they are both green and orcs aren't even naturally green. Lets see the differences.

  • Like Gnomes Goblins have 4 fingers
  • Goblins are much smaller
  • Goblins have long ears while orcs ears are short
  • Orc noses are short and flat while goblin noses are long and pointy.
  • orcs are muscular while goblins are very thin.

Gnomes have much more in Common with goblins then orcs. Angry ogre 19:55, 3 April 2007 (EDT)

By those standards, humans have more in common with Gorillas than chimps, but humans are much closer cousins to chimps than gorillas. Edit: though I'm not sure I agree with your evidence, I agree that calling Orcs goblinoid is perhaps not best in Warcraft terms.--Ragestorm (talk · contr) 23:49, 3 April 2007 (EDT)

Orcs obviously aren't related to Goblins either. They come from completly different worlds. They are nothing alike. This is another example of why you can't just dump things and terms from DnD into the Warcraft universe. Angry ogre 18:54, 4 April 2007 (EDT)

Remember that this is a restored conversation from almost 11 months ago. As far as I recall when checking and restoring it, it doesn't apply anywhere anymore. Kirkburn talk contr 19:03, 4 April 2007 (EDT)

May I remind you that this is the type of edit that got you banned from the site previously. If you are going to radically rewrite fact, perhaps give your version some basis in reality? Kirkburn talk contr 19:06, 4 April 2007 (EDT)

First give me one good reason about why we should still use goblinoid? Even the Rpg book doesn't use it anymore. I suppose Shivvara and night elves are now now related because they both have both purple skin huh. Angry ogre 19:15, 4 April 2007 (EDT)

Today, we're talking about Racial Terminology#Goblinoid.

Goblinoid is a sub-category of the term Humanoid describing races with similar characteristics to goblins. It is unknown who came up with the term "Goblinoid". It is used very few times in an apparently "scientific" and unbiased technical bestiary manual by an unknown author. It is a technical term rather than a "racial slur".[1] (MoM #?) Note: While Goblinoid is used to describe only a few specific races that share similar characteristics, it does not mean that they are all related to "goblins".

Now, do you want to make comments relating to what it actually says, and not what you think it says? Kirkburn talk contr 20:05, 4 April 2007 (EDT)
I took a look at the definition of Goblinoid; it no longer has anything to do with orcs, in the 3rd edition D&D rules, only Goblins, Hobgoblins, and Bugbears are "goblinoid." Orcs are separate. Also, I have yet to see anyone writing here refer to orcs as goblinoid- the word does not appear once on Orc. --Ragestorm (talk · contr) 21:17, 4 April 2007 (EDT)
I just updated the text - it didn't actually say what it meant! Kirkburn talk contr 07:54, 5 April 2007 (EDT)

The BE on azuremyst/bloodmyst

The BE on azuremyst and bloodmyst while ON azeroth arn't the ones FROM(as in no stopover on outland from) azeroth If your actualy payed attention they were kaels BEs that attaked the keep not the ones FROM azeroth. (not meant as an insult but just saying) and if the naru can turn Kael's realy evil BE's good then they can sure as the nether turn the mildly evil non-Kael BEs good. Also the martyr theory isnt true as some choose to state it but is farmore likely whaen thought of from the "they r almost saytrs" theory (that you yourself introdueced me to)in that he may just intend to give them a substitute for demonic energy so they arnt twisted as serverly by the fel and dont further add to the narus enemies. Also the weaning would clear their heads and prehaps allow them to relize their mistakes and draw their power properly also thrall may have accepeted them (in fact its posibly the only way he would accept them)if he was told by the naru that they were merly lost and needed guidence(m'uru's and thrall's) to repent ect. {when you respond to this tell me on my chat channel so i will know to look at your response}Scorpx2 22:13, 28 April 2007 (EDT)scorpx2

Evil (non-manari'eredar) draenei..... WITH A NAME!

And he does EXACTLY what the blood knights do.Sucks power from a Naru. And worse he does it FOR the legion. He is found in that Naru crystal vessel that you vist in the Greatmother quest string. He is most definitly draenei opting to keep his title "vindicator" (I cannot reclall the name and would appreciate assistance with this)Scorpx2 00:50, 21 May 2007 (UTC)scorpx2

ogre its not demonic not pure niceness but not demonic

In as far as the absorbtion its JUST arcane for players the manatap says ARCANE not whatever it was you drained it has to be altered to that state when drained from fel sources somehow I suppose (not nessicerily for those who drain more arcane is difficult to siphon from fel and impurities may exist when "drinking" high levels of fel. and some greedy fools might try to drain straight without the filtrer for a higher voulume of energy) also the spirits and the light and such are all the same. Read the draenei shaman questtexts and speak to the shaman leader they say what I just did. Kael is a total F**ktard who foolishly allowed himself to become evil after illidan taught him the manatap, stealing became his fist instinct not fixing the sunwell or creating a new one he has likely transfered the vial remnant's conntents into annother as if he had used it there wouldn't be anymore addiction and turned evil


I was just wondering What's your opinion on blood elves?I'm not refering their way of life(i got the ideea on how you picture them)i mean on their military and stuff like that.I'm asking because you said in a discussion page that Thrall could have freed the Naaru from Silvermoon becasue he could kill a few weak magisters.......well i wouldn't think they are weak magisters those that keep Mu'ru chained.And anyway if they were the rest of the Quel'THalas Defences aren't to be underestimated.I look forward to your answer(Marakanis)


If anyone else has seen the newest little 'moment' in Shattrath, it seems that Angry Ogre's been supremely refuted about quite a few of his beliefs. I'd like to hear his response to this, beyond anything else. Drakonrage (talk) 22:57, 19 May 2008 (UTC)

Community content is available under CC-BY-SA unless otherwise noted.