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  • Pcj

    *blows the dust off account*

    Taking this discussion from userspace and speaking as a Wowpedia admin here. I'm also the wiki manager for Wowpedia and spoke briefly to Sitb about coordinating.

    Frankly, I feel that it is pretty obvious that as far as content Wowpedia is now vastly more developed and if one wiki should be shut down it will need to be WoWWiki. Just getting that out of the way and trying to speak objectively there. Trying to get the content on WoWWiki up to date would just be an utterly monumental task. And moving Wowpedia as a separate wiki back to the Fandom platform would similarly be folly.

    That said, there may be some older data, mainly pictures, from vanilla WoW that were later replaced/deleted that are now irretrievable on Wowpedia that we now want back (for WoW Classic mode) and I might expect WoWWiki could be beneficial in that respect.

    I also had the idea that WoWWiki could be re-tooled to focus more on fan-developed content. Certainly Fandom's community tools would be a more conducive experience to that goal.

    Finally, I don't think we should need to feel any pressure from Fandom/Gamepedia to merge/close one wiki. But I do believe WoWWiki's days ought to be numbered. Splitting the community isn't great, especially when one wiki is fairly well maintained for current content and the other... well...isn't.

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    • Ahh... Pcj, I see you haven't changed. Blunt and as undiplomatic as ever.

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    • On a more serious note, if the WoWWiki community is okay with shutting it down, I am too.

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    • Fandom/Gamepedia wouldn't force either wiki to shut down if the community is against it. It should be pretty obvious to everyone, though, that in the long run, working collaboratively on one unified wiki would be best for pretty much everyone. Where that should be remains to be determined, and the biggest factor is what both communities want. If one side can agree to pack up and move to the other platform, having their wiki archived and redirected, then that's great. 

      What Fandom could provide is some data and insights into how a move in either direction might affect the combined wiki's Google rankings. Both wikis currently rank very high, and combining them would only make things better. However, on Fandom, Wowwiki has several partner wikis in other languages that, due to the way Fandom URL paths are set up, all give each other an SEO boost. Gamepedia has a different URL structure, so the same is not the case there. This is just one factor to consider, though, and not the most important one when it comes to deciding where a future combined WoW wiki should live. Yet we will need to think about the other language communities on either side, and whether they could move, too. 

      It'd be up to you guys to figure out which content from either wiki you'd want to move over, who should have admin and other rights on the new combined wiki (could be a simple as giving all the admins of the moving wiki admin rights on the other side, etc.), and what you want to do with stuff that requires certain features the other sight might not currently support. I'm here to help you figure things out in any way I can!

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    • Thanks, Pcj, for reaching out to our community on behalf of the Wowpedia team.

      There's no denying the fact that Wowpedia is currently in a better position than WoWWiki when it comes to active contributors, administrators/moderators, generally more-robust/complete articles and more advanced coding capabilities (given your more-modern version of mediawiki), among other things. As Fandyllic has mentioned elsewhere, our community lost a valuable resource this past January when Fandom's content team was dissolved and we lost one of our largest content-generators/maintainers (Raylan13). Without a resource like him, it would take not only a serious re-allocation of existing users' editing habits, but also an influx of new users to bring this wiki on-par with Wowpedia. However, WoW is not a new game (if anything, it is in decline), so where would these additional contributors come from at this point?

      All of this being said, WoWWiki is far from inactive. This wiki still receives over a million views and a few hundred contributions from editors each week. Since a crossover of these two wikis is ultimately a community decision, I think it is prudent to hear input from some of the users who are currently active on this wiki, and have a somewhat-notable contribution history. Since these users have still been actively using this wiki in the past weeks/months, it would be helpful, if they are willing, to hear whether they would/wouldn't be on-board with some sort of a crossover (and why). In addition to Fandyllic, some of our wiki's high-volume editors whom I would be interested in hearing from include:

      I'd rather we not be too hasty in making a decision, without first ensuring that at least some of our stakeholders have a voice.

      On another note: Pcj, I am not sure whether you are aware (or if Gamepedia has an equivalent), but Classic WoW wiki was created last October to fill a niche for players whom want to discuss or chronicle details pertaining to World of Warcraft: Classic. Although the wiki is essentially inactive currently, it may begin to receive users closer to/after the launch of WoW classic, and some prep work has already been done. More importantly: that wiki actually started as a data-dump of the historical WoWWiki from the days of vanilla wow, and has been set up in a manner where users can "resurrect" (un-delete) historical articles, and clean them up to the standards of the modern day (some improvements like that have already begun). If necessary, that wiki could also be used as a resourse to retrieve articles/images from the 2000's.
      - Sitb @fandom (Message wall / Talk page) 18:01, May 22, 2019 (UTC)

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    • Pcj

      Mira Laime wrote: [...]However, on Fandom, Wowwiki has several partner wikis in other languages[...]

      Ah, yes, the non-English Wowpedia versions are pretty dormant. I think mainly Spanish is active other than English. It would be nice to get the other languages on the same page for sure.

      Sitb wrote: On another note: Pcj, I am not sure whether you are aware (or if Gamepedia has an equivalent), but Classic WoW wiki was created last October to fill a niche for players whom want to discuss or chronicle details pertaining to World of Warcraft: Classic. Although the wiki is essentially inactive currently, it may begin to receive users closer to/after the launch of WoW classic, and some prep work has already been done. More importantly: that wiki actually started as an data-dump of the historical WoWWiki from the days of vanilla wow, and has been set up in a manner where users can "resurrect" (un-delete) historical articles, and clean them up to the standards of the modern day (some improvements like that have already begun). If necessary, that wiki could also be used as a resourse to retrieve articles/images from the 2000's.

      While a separate wiki for Classic is an interesting idea, it doesn't align with Wowpedia's current design to keep it on the same wiki. Like you said, though, it would be a good resource to retrieve that older content that's gone missing on Wowpedia for one reason or another. (We'd have to be careful to vet it considering Blizzard's policies on private server content, though).

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    • We'd have to be careful to vet it considering Blizzard's policies on private server content

      I'm not sure what you mean, and how private server content factors into that wiki. Vanilla WoW Wiki, on the other hand, is tainted with info extracted from private servers. However, Classic WoW Wiki was designed to omit that type of information
      - Sitb @fandom (Message wall / Talk page) 18:29, May 22, 2019 (UTC)

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    • Sitb
      Sitb removed this reply because:
      18:31, May 22, 2019
      This reply has been removed
    • Pcj

      I was thinking mainly of images. Since Classic WoW only has 19 images, all of which I am sure are somewhere on Wowpedia, it's probably not worth considering anyway.

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    • It would be nice to get more input from a more neutral party, unlike Pcj, Sitb, and myself.

      Mainly due to growing time constraints and changing interests, if WoWWiki were to close, I would effectively be retiring. Also, I think the rate of contribution to WoWWiki is vastly exaggerated, since at least half of it is anons or vandals.

      We all know why WoWWiki is so dormant, it was caused by Wikia around 2010. For a time they tried to keep WoWWiki semi-competitive and I went along for the ride, partly because when I tried to get back to editing on Wowpedia my account was basically inaccessible and I didn't want to lose my name, so I just gave up. It turns out getting my account back is still difficult.

      Anyway, I think this discussion reveals that the merger between Curse and Wikia has a long way to go technically and for the forseeable future is really only a business merger with very separate web engine bases and server operations. Maybe I'll just retire from WoWWiki and see what shakes out in a couple years... I'll still contribute to Wikia wikis, but not really WoWWiki.

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    • Fandyllic, could you send a message via S:C about your account and mention that it should be assigned to me? I do think I can help you get it back. 

      Fandom and Curse (who owns Gamepedia) are already laying out plans to bring the platforms closer together not just in a business sense but also from a technical standpoint, but obivously, that will take a good chunk of time, and I can't make any concrete promises or give timelines yet. 

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    • Mira Laime wrote: Fandyllic, could you send a message via S:C about your account and mention that it should be assigned to me? I do think I can help you get it back. 

      Done. Even though my Twitch account is 'fandyllic', it gave me Fandyllic##### (where ##### is a 5-digit number) on Wowpedia when I went there. I don't plan to do any edits with Fandyllic#####. And the person I started working with was MisterWoodhouse, but I kind of forgot to continue the process after I made my Twitch account.

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    • I was a consistent contributor to the wiki back in 2008 - 2010, after which I had vowed "I would never make an edit on WoWiki again" because of Pcj, who as a 100% pure @$$ back then and from what I read above still is.

      After he moved over to Curse (WoWpedia), I broke that vow and started making a few minor changes here and there, mainly on the Patches and Hotfixes pages and sub-pages. So, I do not think I am really qualified to give my opinion on this matter.

      But, since you did ask, I am like Fandyllic in whatever is best for the wiki is what I think should happen.

      If that means closing down WoWiki in favor of WoWpedia.
      If that means closing down WoWpediain favor of WoWiki.

      I personally like WoWiki better, but that may be my biasses towards the former Admins, mainly Pcj, who moved over to WoWpedia. <shrugs>

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    • I'm gonna be blunt about this and say that i will not support a crossover/merge with Wowpedia or a shutdown of Wowwiki given how obviously biased and poorly worded Pcj's statement is not to mention the hostility exhibited by Wowpedia in the past (Remember https://wow.gamepedia.com/Forum:Gamepedia_and_Fandom?).

      The best thing imo would be for both Wowwiki and Wowpedia to remain independent of each other.

      If however a crossover/merge does occur, i will not be sticking around as i'm convinced that will be a colossal disaster.

      walks out of the room

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    • Pcj

      TessaVarzi wrote: I'm gonna be blunt about this and say that i will not support a crossover/merge with Wowpedia or a shutdown of Wowwiki given how obviously biased and poorly worded Pcj's statement is not to mention the hostility exhibited by Wowpedia in the past (Remember https://wow.gamepedia.com/Forum:Gamepedia_and_Fandom?).

      Biased? Sure I'm biased. But you'd have to convince me hard what redeemable qualities WoWWiki has. I'm trying to look at it objectively and I'm not seeing it.

      Hostility? Don't get me started. Remember "they have lots of good stuff to steal"? Yeah. The hammer swings both ways. We all got blindsided by a decision made above all of our paygrades and were reacting to that. I'd like to put that behind us.

      I'm willing to work with you guys but you need to put some of your prejudice aside. I know it sucks proposing closing the wiki you spent ~9 years on... I mainly blame Wikia for not closing this wiki when we left. But that's in the past now. I would like to move forward.

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    • I have no idea what happened in the past but tbh I don't care much so I'll leave those personal things aside. As for the wikis, currently Wowpedia is better in almost every way. You only need to compare pages. Wowpedia is more to date, while WoWWiki not only has far less pages/articles or less active users, but vandalism and fanfictions are also very present. I am an user of Wowpedia and I am in favor of merging WoWWiki to Wowpedia, as long as the majority of the two wiki users are okay with it. Trying to bring WoWWiki to Wowpedia's current status would be just too much. This is not about being biased it is about how things really are. The same is going to happen with Starpedia which will be merge to StarCraft wiki as far as I know, since the later is simply better. It is your choice of what you want to do with WoWWiki but I think it would be easier for Warcraft fans to just have the two merged.

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    • To clarify, the reactions on the Wowpedia forum post that TessaVarzi linked were directly caused by Wowwiki's own reaction following the buyout news, which you can still see here: https://wowwiki.fandom.com/wiki/Thread:385777

      Namely: "This is going to be fun! Prepare for the wave of hate and disillusionment too... Wowpedia folks must be stunned by the betrayal. they have lots of good stuff to steal... heh heh"

      So I reject your criticism, our reaction was perfectly legitimate - Wikia coming back after we had split from them 10 years ago was not a good news to begin with, but you started with hostilities and mockery. We had every right to be unhappy about all of this. And I'm not even including Fandyllic's behavior on the forums.



      Now that this is clarified, I can tackle the questions we were asked. As a member of Wowpedia, yes, I am willing to look past this, and yes I would accept Wowwiki's members on Wowpedia. We have the same goals, there's no reason we can't cooperate. Having two wikis is not only useless but also detrimental to the greater WoW community.

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    • Crow here. I like to consider myself a neutral party in this scenario, since my principal concern is for the content and its accuracy and accessibility to the players. (Full disclosure: Kaydeethree is an old colleague of mine and I did hop into Wowpedia's editor pool when this merger was first announced in order to monitor the situation.) 

      My take is this: past grudges and personality conflicts really shouldn't be the primary concern at this stage, since the primary objective of both wikis is to serve the needs of the players. Everyone made the choices they made in the past because they felt it was the best move to make at the time, but now that we're back in the same room and being asked to work together, we should focus on that primary objective: what serves the players best? 

      Specific to the WoW Classic discussion, I agree that it may be optimal to consolidate that information on one page, or at worst have a "Subject (Classic)" page for that information to live on, rather than having a separate WoW Classic wiki. As long as the information is clearly demarcated as being specific to the Classic incarnation, that should make it easily accessible for players who want that info while also granting everyone complete information about that subject if they're looking for an overview of the subject's history. 

      This is along similar lines to information that we'll want to review in conjunction with the releases of Warcraft III:Reforged later this year, so it would be good to establish a solid policy for it going forward. 

      I look forward to working with everyone!

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    • As a big wowpedia contributor (xporc here), I'd gladly welcome any wowwiki editor to wowpedia. I wasn't there for the big wowwiki/wowpedia split so I don't really care about bad history between users.

      That said, when it comes to the fates of the two websites, sorry but wowpedia is clearly superior on almost every single points compared to wowwiki. I'm not really for the closure of anything, but it's obvious priority should be given to wowpedia in any future plans for fandom/wikia.

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    • Pcj wrote:

      We all got blindsided by a decision made above all of our paygrades and were reacting to that. I'd like to put that behind us.

      I'm willing to work with you guys but you need to put some of your prejudice aside.

      1. I don't get paid to work on WoWWiki and never have been paid.
      2. If you displayed even an iota that you were trying to put your prejudice aside, I might think about it. But, it is clear you want it to be a one-way street. You don't want to change, but you want us to change? That's... I have no words.
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    • Active Wowepdia editor here. In the end we all want the same. The best possible wiki on the topic of the Warcraft universe. There are select areas where Wowwiki might have more accurate data, an example would be some of the beta areas in Mist of Pandaria. Data that has since been overwritten on the databases, but still exist here. As such I don't think a "shutdown" of wowwiki would be the best idea right of the bat. On the other hand, I do think it would be best to cease work here, and then instead work towards incorporating good content here on Wowwiki, into the mass of Gamepedia. As Sitb says, Wowwiki still revieves plenty of views, even though not on the scale of Wowpedia. In terms of edits though, Wowpedia probably sees more edits in a day than Wowwiki does in two weeks. As an editor concerned purely with personal pages like fanfiction, exposure might not matter much. Otherwise I should think that the ideal would be to focus the time on where the content would reach the broadest audience. And while that may have once been Wowwiki, times have changed. While there's gold to be found here and there on Wowwiki, I do believe that the future is on Wowpedia. On the topic of a seperate classic wiki, I'm not directly opposed to that, but I do think it would be better to just have it all centralized, as you'd otherwise end up having to create a lot of content again, even if some can be recreated. If need be, I imagine a portal could be added on the frontpage, with a Classic theeme and content.

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    • Followup: So far I have seen no posts by a user I would consider a neutral party despite their claims.

      Here's some guidance for what I mean by neutral:

      • You edit at either both Wowpedia and WoWwiki about the same amount or neither.
      • You have no significant relationships (at any point had regular interaction talk, wall, chat, discord, etc.) with admins of either site.
      • You aren't employed by Wikia or Curse.
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    • Pcj

      Fandyllic wrote: Here's some guidance for what I mean by neutral:

      • You edit at either both Wowpedia and WoWwiki about the same amount or neither.
      • You have no significant relationships (at any point had regular interaction talk, wall, chat, discord, etc.) with admins of either site.
      • You aren't employed by Wikia or Curse.

      Yeah...that's not going to happen.

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    • I'm not sure anyone who could possibly know about this situation would have an opinion that would be both valid and neutral, one way or another.

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    • Fandyllic wrote: Here's some guidance for what I mean by neutral:

      • You edit at either both Wowpedia and WoWwiki about the same amount or neither.
      • You have no significant relationships (at any point had regular interaction talk, wall, chat, discord, etc.) with admins of either site.
      • You aren't employed by Wikia or Curse.

      You may consider this pessimism, but I'm just trying to think realistically here, and I'm fairly confident this "ideal" user you have in mind does not exist. Not only is it unlikely there are any users (in the present day) who edit both wikis equally, but for them to also have no relationship with any admin on either wiki seems astronomically unlikely.
      - Sitb @fandom (Message wall / Talk page) 19:02, May 23, 2019 (UTC)

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    • I didn't say no relationship, I said "no significant relationships". If you've contacted and admin for help and then that was it after the problem was resolved, that's a big difference between just chatting about stuff because you want to get to know them better. I have contacted perhaps dozens of admins, but that doesn't mean I have a significant relationship with even a few of them.

      I'm looking for more neutral opinions, because Wowpedia will clearly win on the numbers and so far the split is pretty stark between regular WoWWiki users and Wowpedia users.

      When people throw around the term "objective" when their perspective is (often anonymous) clearly biased and subjective, that's hard to trust or give useful value to.

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    • Let them each serve their audience and make money. It's a problem many wish they had.

      If the "users" of either really wanted to view information on just one them would have done that a long time ago. What any of us want, is a drop in the bucket and somewhat irrelevant. It's possible that as a whole, the community is better served by having more points and a wider spread on google, not less.

      Concurrently none of these people even know who we are, maybe a 0.001%, or care about this issue. If you try to convert Wowpedia to Fandom, or try to curb WowWiki into something else, would hit a brick wall for willing participants, and for amount of effort required even if you had peak numbers of helpers from the last several years, and likely cost far more in effort regardless than any real gain. In either case you would loose a significant portion of link and search inertia, and audience.

      It is probably better to have all of the money continue from what is now, currently, a fortunate circumstance in today's environment, which affords all of the extra paid support we have collectively. And ultimately afforded the individuals and the conversation we are having now. Whatever mistakes were made in the past, are just rings in the wood.

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    • For starters:
      1. ....
      2. We do not want to merge with WoWWiki. That would not be acceptable in any way. Nor should their administrators have any automatic rights here.
      3. ....
      --PcjWowpedia wiki manager (TDrop me a line!CSpecial:Editcount/Pcj contributions and counting) 20:27, 16 December 2018 (UTC)

      I have no real dog in this fight, and was not aware of any of this this type of thing in 2010. I'm sure neither of them had any awareness of me back in 2010.

      But has anything changed?

      Test

      blah blah wowpedia.org rocks wowwiki sucks etc. Will you delete me or are user talk pages still retaining some semblance of inviolability? --PcjWoWWiki admin (TDrop me a line!CSpecial:Editcount/Pcj contributions and counting) 00:07, December 9, 2010 (UTC)

      To use your own words...

      ...stop being an asshat. You have your own playground. If you make another BS random comment which is clearly just to say how WoWWiki sucks and Wowpedia is better and repeat the same things you've already said, I will ban you. Not for breaking any policy, just because you're an asshat. --Gengar orange 22x22Beware the sneaky smile! Fandyllic (talk · contr) 11:26 PM PST 10 Dec 2010

      Seriously? I haven't said anything mean. If that's the way you feel, you can have your playground here then. --PcjWoWWiki admin (TDrop me a line!CSpecial:Editcount/Pcj contributions and counting) 08:00, December 11, 2010 (UTC)

      Hi Pcj! I'm reporting from my talk page as requested... how would i delete my wikia account?

      I'm not sure what anyone expects, or expected, to eventually happen.

      It's a consequence of everyone wanting a site for wow, and big wikis were new and highly appropriate. It's a consequence of having to pay for it somehow, which wasn't going to happen via the community, not for ~14 years. Honestly the original people who created WowWiki aren't even here.

      Any "impasse" seems to have nothing to do with Fandom, Curse wikis, the community, much less any of contributors. I assumed Stib just wanted everyone to at the very least accept the current circumstance peaceably, and to understand that monetization is still significant or appreciable on both that needs to be taken into consideration. Which is why I wrote what I did. I've now read much of what was posted more carefully and across the different pages.

      Do I really need anyone's approval to talk to anyone else? I doubt it. Are they going to balk as things are now? probably. Who's is going to stop me from pushing a valid change on either? Or cooperate? Who is going to go against Fandom or remaining Curse interests to stop me. Am I beholden to anyone? Is anyone trying to make it sound like there are sides, and myself or anyone else are on one? Apparently.

      I don't know how such wiki principles were lost. Well I do, but...

      The elephant is that a set of people believe they are the only ones capable of "holding the grail" and "doing the work", as it's implied otherwise this whole conversion makes no sense. I can promise you that in all of my experience you are not the only people, and not the only person capable of "leading" them, as if that was what this was all about. I don't think that's a healthy approach or mindset long term, regardless.

      Again I've done lots of work in my life where what I may think if a person or situation in passing, has no real bearing on how I interact or the actual work that gets done. This isn't even work. So I have no real issues contributing across "venues".

      It's possible that multiple alternate things could be done to remedy this situation and resolve these issues, before progress is made along other lines.

      My original statement stands, for what I think should be done for now, which is to let the sites make money and keep their influence on google. So that sometime in the future, things change, and something new can be done.

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    • Fandyllic wrote:
       

      I'm looking for more neutral opinions, because Wowpedia will clearly win on the numbers and so far the split is pretty stark between regular WoWWiki users and Wowpedia users.

      When people throw around the term "objective" when their perspective is (often anonymous) clearly biased and subjective, that's hard to trust or give useful value to.

      xporc here. For your information, this isn't a coordinated attack from wowpedia or anything. We were specifically asked by Sitb to come to this thread and discuss the situation with you.

      Also you guys might want to know, since I'm seeing a lot of hostility toward pcj, that while he's an admin and the wiki manager, the wowpedia community is much bigger than just him and that his contributions usually happen when we have a technical problem

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    • 1) Fandyllic, that ideal "neutral" user does not exist.

      2) Even if they did, they would actually NOT be ideal. A merger between Wowpedia and Wowwiki must be discussed by.. people from Wowpedia and Wowwiki. 

      3) This is why we are here. We were specifically asked to show up on this thread and give our opinion. And so far every single person from Wowpedia has said they would be glad to welcome you on Wowpedia.



      This discussion is being derailed by past grievances. Fandy, you're no angel. Neither is pcj. Both of you have behaved in imperfect ways. Now if you guys could just get over it instead of quoting words from 10 years ago and pointing fingers everywhere, that'd be nice. 

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    • This discussion obviously hasn't come to an end yet, but I'm going to try to summarize/paraphrase some of what's been said throughout the discussion so far. I have tried to parse out much of the personal grievances toward specific users that some have expressed, focusing on the future and concerns/thoughts on the current-day climate of WoWWiki. I would like to try to nudge this discussion in a direction that moves us away from ten-year-old grudges, as they do not serve the purpose of this discussion. One or two users do not make up an entire fan community, and one person's opinions should not be interpreted as that of the entire community. Please correct me if I've mis-interpreted anything people have said, and by all means, expand/add anything you believe still needs to be mentioned:


      From WoWWiki users:

      • There is a general acknowledgement that WoWpedia is currently more active/robust than WoWwiki.
      • Some users are okay with re-focusing/directing activity to Wowpedia, if the community consensus is to do so.
      • Some are even willing to put their personal bias toward certain users aside, if it means doing what is best for the overall community (whatever that ends up being).
      • At least one user has decided not to support any sort of collaboration, and will cease contributing out of expectation that it will not succeed.

      From Wowpedia users:

      • Wowpedia is now vastly more developed since the two wikis went their separate ways 10 years ago, and if users are to choose one wiki as the go-to place going forward, it should probably be Wowpedia.
      • There is probably some unique content and/or historical data on WoWWiki, so it would be useful to retain access to WoWWiki as a resource to help expand on Wowpedia content.
      • WoWWiki could possibly be re-designed as a place that focuses on fan-developed content
      • Splitting the WoW fan community across two wikis is not the best idea, as we're splitting resources when we could be sharing resources for the benefit of the entire fan community.
      • No one should feel specifically pressured to move to the opposite wiki
      • Cross-collaboration should only move forward if the majority find it acceptable
      • Some have said outright that they do not care about past conflicts and would welcome any WoWWiki users to Wowpedia

      From Fandom (Mira Laime):

      • Neither wiki will ever be forced to shut down, if the community is against it. However, working collaboratively on one unified wiki would be best for pretty much everyone
      • Archival/redirection of one wiki is an option, and Fandom can provide some additional tools/insight to help facilitate such a move
      • The non-English wikis would need to be taken into consideration, as these communities are possibly still active on Fandom, and may not have an active counterpart on Gamepedia.

      Some follow-up comments of my own:
      Regarding the presence of unique content on WoWWiki:
      I know for a fact this exists, simply from experience. I have personally created articles and added content/pictures to the wiki over the years that was not (and in some cases may still not be) available on Wowpedia. I am sure many others have done the same.

      Like it or not, Fandom and Gamepedia are now a single(-ish) entity. There are many cross-collaboration projects currently occurring not only between wikis that span both platforms, but also between full-time staff members, the wiki management/content-generation teams and their counterparts from the (formerly) opposite company. The driver behind these projects has to do with collaboration, it's not really about choosing sides. The Fandom vs Gamepedia (and by extension WoWWiki vs Wowpedia) mentality is no longer feasible in our current environment.
      - Sitb @fandom (Message wall / Talk page) 14:37, May 24, 2019 (UTC)

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    • @Fandyllic: On the topic of being a neutral party, I would not call my relationship with Kaydeethree significant under the definition you provided. We happened to meet at a social media mixer at a past BlizzCon after crossing paths on twitter, and when I heard this was going down, I reached out to him for insight into what was happening on the Wowpedia side, which is how I got into that space. 

      With that in mind, I don't think you're going to find another user who has both a neutral stance to both parties AND enough of a stake in the fate of the wikis to immerse themselves in this situation. I am about as neutral as you're going to get.

      However, with all of that established, @Sitb is right that we're not going to make any progress if we stay in the mindset of two wikis in a struggle for supremacy with one another. We've been given the mandate by the new Fandom to do what's best for the community, and also been granted a lot of leverage in terms of how we want to accomplish that. What's the first step?

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    • Unlimitedblack wrote:
      We've been given the mandate by the new Fandom to do what's best for the community

      I just want to clarify, because it's a bit of a slippery slope. Neither Fandom nor Gamepedia are "mandating" any sort of action. Crossovers are encouraged, but never manditory.
      - Sitb @fandom (Message wall / Talk page) 16:16, May 24, 2019 (UTC)

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    • Pcj

      If the consensus can be made to move forward with relocating to Wowpedia, it seems to me the first step would be identifying content on WoWWiki that does not exist on Wowpedia, and which would make sense to move over. Stib mentioned he knew of some right off the bat, so maybe that's the way it should be addressed at first, having the content creators bring it forward for review.

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    • I'm pretty sure that's not what he just said.

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    • How about this. If Pcj removes himself from involvement with Wowpedia, I will gladly agree to start moving content over to Wowpedia from WoWWiki that has been identified as not existing on Wowpedia. I'll even help do it. I will even start putting pointers into WoWwiki to go to Wowpedia for stuff that is non-existent on WoWWiki or clearly much worse.

      The honest truth is I don't have problem with Wowpedia, I have a problem with Pcj who's pretty much been a jerk from day one and hasn't gotten any better. I'm not fond of his allies, but I can probably work with them.

      There's my offer. I'm positive it won't be accepted, but it's on the table.

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    • Pcj

      That's not going to happen. Sorry, Fandy.

      However, as xporc mentioned, I'm usually off doing other things on other wikis, so you won't have to worry much about it.

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    • Perhaps another approach might be beneficial for this discussion.

      Would anyone care to elaborate/offer some insight into what they consider the benefits of keeping WoWWiki and Wowpedia apart? (other than to avoid bruising one's ego, because that's a weak argument IMO)
      -- Sitb @fandom (Message wall / Talk page) 18:37, May 24, 2019 (UTC)

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    • 1. The major clear benefit I can see to keeping the wikis separate is two engaged teams developing content and continuing to serve the parts of the community that have stuck with one or the other. Everyone who doesn't want work with someone on the other side doesn't have to, and the community at large does what it's done for the last ten years and just accept that there are two wikis for the Warcraft franchise that may have different information on the same objects. 

      I would call that the status quo. 

      2. The second clear benefit of keeping the wikis separate is in allowing them to diverge further from one another, serving different purposes. If Wowwiki's editors wanted to orient themselves as (for example) the "fan-content" wiki while Wowpedia is the "just what's official" wiki, then that's a way to strengthen both teams while staying separate. But that requires both teams to come to an agreement about where that line is drawn, and communicating that to other editors to delineate their content onto the proper wikis appropriately. 

      Given that this places a great deal more effort on the Wowwiki side of things versus the Wowpedia side, I admit I don't find this particular solution optimal for the players, but it IS a benefit of keeping two wikis rather than consolidating. 

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    • I'd agree. I'm sure we can find a way to reconcile the content, or otherwise. How much combined technical wiki experience do we all have? :)


      To Sitb, where I had already written this wall of text before seeing UnlimitedBlacks reply:

      You do realize you are arguing vicariously through us with Pcj?

      He will speak to things going one very specific way, and only intends for things to go one way, without compromise. It has been stated that if the exact opposite were to happen, though clearly unlikely, he would fork the wiki a third time.

      It doesn't matter what happens today. The entirety of his new home is based on very different principles. If not today then some other day he will necessarily have to reconcile his behavior with his new "place of work". I know who will win.

      Fix the problem.

      Pjc at the top of this thread: I also had the idea that WoWWiki could be re-tooled to focus more on fan-developed content. Certainly Fandom's community tools would be a more conducive experience to that goal.

      It's been stated for years in various ways, and by what features were chosen for their wiki, that his vision does not include the general public, but to make a sort of quasi crowd sourced website, more like a typed version of Wow Head with help pages.

      This will never, as it is, really reconcile with Fandom. I'd also argue that having a relatively hermitically sealed site that clips off the interesting bits that aren't covered elsewhere, is probably not a good recipe. A situation where everyone can participate has been proven to generate more overall interest, and renew interest and grow the market, as opposed to one where you are honing a relatively shrinking set of relevance, to a shrinking set of people, that's more in competition with the massive economies of scale inherent in WoW Head, than anything on Wikipedia or Fandom.

      Toward this the value of both are different.

      The future of both are tied to completely different mechanisms with different tradeoffs and different eventual outcomes. One as it seems now is willing to refence the other, or at least work with the other and move forward where the least value is lost. But in the end unless you change something the later is unwilling or embrace the current principles that currently drive most of the top 20% of the daily internet for most people, and current for software development in general, generated by equal participation. It would be pretty easy to argue that Wowpedia is actually in a much worse position long term.

      What's been offered as far as I can tell, completely disregards what Fandom staff are saying, and expected best case level of cooperation.

      Let it ride. Let the community come together. Let not one person run roughshod over everything else.

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    • Pcj

      Hey, let's do this. Don't put words in my mouth and I won't put them in yours.

      Celess22 wrote: It has been stated that if the exact opposite were to happen, though clearly unlikely, he would fork the wiki a third time.

      This is true (although it would only be the second act of forking). I haven't denied it. The previous direction of Fandom, this skin, and everything about the structure is why Wowpedia forked in the first place. If things hadn't worked out as they had, we'd likely already be forked again.

      As it stands now, I'm willing to work with you guys. That of course will require you to work with me. I've stated they way I see things. Anyone and everyone can tell you I'm not the most sensitive person. I apologize if my directness has offended you.

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    • xporc here.

      Fandyllic, pcj might not be a very regular editor for wowpedia but he's still been supporting us for every major decision taken in the three last years. I also sometimes disagree with him but he's still been willing to work with me on mostly everything I ever asked for, including stuff he didn't care about. No one on wowpedia is getting away to please you, sorry

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    • Lets do what?

      Well regardless of my characterization

      Is there a possibility that we will wake up one day soon and find Wowpedia is just a redirect to Wowwiki now and all of the content on Wowpedia is gone? ...
      We already have the archive in that event. And while technically possible, that would be politically bad for Wikia, so I'm thinking it won't happen like that. --Pcj (T•C) 08:02, 3 January 2019 (UTC)

      I know.

      If without your usually consistent stance on the issue, I would not have even mentioned it, or assumed what would have been done with the archive.

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    • I would be shocked if anything happened to please me.

      I'll just add some points:

      • WoWWiki doesn't really have much of an active community. Let's be honest. It's basically been riding as an advert honey pot for Wikia for those people who know the name WoWWiki. Wikia does want to change that, but they can't very well just point the WoWWiki domains to Wowpedia, but I'm sure the reasons for that will never be clearly revealed.
      • After the last layoff of Wikia folks, I've basically just been editing WoWWiki out of habit and generally have rapidly receding desire to do it any more. I'm mostly now just in this thread to stir the pot and see what people's opinions are on the whole mess.
      • I don't want WoWWiki to be a fanfic site. Just kill it if that's the plan. Better it just be a redirect to Wowpedia.
      • I'm really past the working with anyone phase... I do really think Kaydeethree is a good person, but for some reason he doesn't want to discuss anything here and that makes me sad.
      • Until some other Wowpedia admin says something besides Pcj, I'm not going to comment further.
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    • Pcj

      FYI, Xporc *is* a Wowpedia admin.

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    • Fandyllic: If your interest here is predominately to "stir the pot", AND if your interest in contributing to the wiki has receeded that much, that makes me think you're not coming to the table here in good faith. 

      You've offered the demand that pcj step away from Wowpedia as a prerequisite to your participation, but you're also stating, as you have before, that your participation is already close to nil. Asking Wowpedia to trade pcj's experience for what you're currently offering is not a reasonable request. 


      ​​"I'm really past the working with anyone phase." <--- Then it appears there's not much more reason for your continued engagement here. ​Sitb and Celess22 both seem much more engaged in actually worrying about the content here rather than making demands on who gets to have a say.  ​​​​

      I apologize if that comes across as confrontational but I want to be clear that if you don't want to work with people at all, I don't see how that is conducive to a discussion about how these two teams are going to cooperate going forward. 

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    • Edit: I wrote this under Fandyllic's 'I'll just add some points post' as a partial response, where it landed order might give it a much different meaning.


      Most wikis I think don't allow Fan Fic except on personal pages, so that's not even really something I think needs to be added or taken away, and I agree not really a problem or a focus. I don't think that's necessarily what Unlimitedblack meant, even if Pcj meant or implied it somehow. Which I'm not saying he did.

      I am willing to at least explore possibilities within the collective guidance from Sitb and Mira.

      I cant speak to the rest any more than I have already with regards to other people, and there is a very clear black hole effect, in this conversation/thread somewhere.

      For Unlimitedblack, if you want, hit me up on my talk here. Celess22 (talk) 22:17, May 24, 2019 (UTC)

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    • Let me clarify... a Wowpedia admin that was also a WoWWiki admin.

      Pcj sure isn't being conducive to cooperation.

      I'm back in waiting mode now.

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    • Pcj

      Fandyllic wrote: Let me clarify... a Wowpedia admin that was also a WoWWiki admin.

      Why?

      Most of the admins that were around in the WoWWiki days have moved on or are otherwise inactive. The Wowpedia admins who weren't here on WoWWiki have just as valid opinions as anyone.

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    • xporc here. So you want someone that is:

      • both a wowpedia and wowwiki admin
      • that edit both sites about the same amount
      • that also has no ignificant relationships with admins of either site
      • and that is not employed by Wikia or Curse

      Am I correct?

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    • No.

      I just want a former WoWWiki admin who is now a Wowpedia admin that isn't Pcj to comment. I know Kaydeethree is still around.

      The other stuff is just for people who's opinion I will value above others.

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    • eithris here; 'nother wowpedia regular. i just want to say that i'm really not fond of the idea of valuing certain users' opinions over others. i understand that having been around a long time means a person is gonna be more invested and knowledgeable than most, but newer editors are still an important part of both of our communities. we want to see our wiki thrive just as much as you want for yours

      the point of this thread is to see how the two communities feel, and make a decision for the future--even if that decision is to not make a decision! why should the whole discussion come to a halt until one particular person weighs in?

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    • What is important is what WoWWiki thinks as a community. If one person is complicating things it doesn't matter. It is a joke that all these things are happening for something not even the majority of people here was around for. As we said numerous times before, people do not care on what happened, therefore those demands are simply not worth the time so please, instead of doing that help us. We are offering you all to continue with your contributions (if you want) on Wowpedia because at this moment, that is the more up-to-date Warcraft wiki. We do the exact same job, we like the same game, and we like editing. Now, tell us about what you like about the wikis, your thoughts on all this, what would you prefer, are you in favor of merging or do you prefer of keeping them separated? There are lots of people here so focus on the overall scene not one user. If in the end the wikis remain separated, that's okay too. Simply, what'd you prefer?

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    • I think Fandyllic is being heavily detrimental to this discussion. You're asking for an ideal neutral party that cannot exist. You're making unreasonable demands like letting go of Pcj. And all that when you admitted yourself multiple times that your own participation on Wowwiki is close to 0. As such, I'm not sure you should even have any say? Or at least, you should not be asking for us to part with a valuable member of Wowpedia, specially if all we get in return is.. your close-to-0 contributions to the platform.



      And for your knowledge, in the many years I have been part of Wowpedia, I have never seen Pcj get in the way of the wiki's health. I don't know, and honestly I don't care, what happened between you two 10 years ago. I can see there was a lot of hostility on your talk pages. But that is not how it works anymore today. Hell I'm not sure if I've even seen him get into an argument with anyone. Moreover, as wiki manager he mostly sticks to the technical side of things. Arguing about a page's name, that's our shtick. (wink)

      So no, we are not letting go of Pcj. He's been nothing but a positive force for the wiki.



      Now if we could focus on Wowwiki/Wowpedia instead of your petty grudges and personal demands, that'd be nice.

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    • Despite Fandyllic mentioning his diminished activity of late, this is actually relative. Considering WoWWiki's current level of overall activity, he is still one of our community's most-active contributors even today. It also should not be overlooked that he is this wiki's most prolific all-time contributor. It would be irresponsible to exclude his thoughts from this discussion, as he has been the longest-standing, most-consistent member of the community for over a decade. He has fostered a continued growth and helped keep us afloat by supporting others who want to keep doing good for the community.

      Based on what's been said by several users here thus far, it appears a full-blown merge between our two communities is likely not feasible at this time. There is simply too much of a difference in philosophy between members of each team, when it comes to how a wiki about Warcraft should be operated. It appears the majority of WoWWiki users who have spoken here are, at the very least, reluctant to migrate the majority of our content/activity to Gamepedia. This doesn't mean our two communities can't still collaborate in some form, and this discussion has the potential to evolve from here. However, I think it looks like both communities are probably going to continue operating in parallel for the time being.
      - Sitb @fandom (Message wall / Talk page) 16:42, May 28, 2019 (UTC)

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    • Fandyllic wrote:

      WoWWiki doesn't really have much of an active community. Let's be honest. It's basically been riding as an advert honey pot for Wikia for those people who know the name WoWWiki. Wikia does want to change that, but they can't very well just point the WoWWiki domains to Wowpedia, but I'm sure the reasons for that will never be clearly revealed.

      Maybe I can shed some light on that at least. Yes, WoWwiki has continued as an ad vehicle on Fandom, somewhat on life support while the more active community is at GP (this wiki here is obviously far from dead, I'm using exaggerated terms to bring the point across). Fandom is a much bigger network and has invested quite a bit into systemic search engine optimization, which is why WoWwiki is still getting tons of pageviews, and is still so profitable for Fandom, even though it has been in decline for so long. Just being on Fandom, and having other wikis on the same topic in other languages on the same network, gives this wiki's content a visibility boost on Google.

      That's why Fandom can't just close this wiki and redirect it to Wowpedia, even if you all enthusiastically agreed to merge and edit henceforth on GP. We have actually done just that for the very first few wikis we merged across both platforms - and found that it doesn't consolidate the traffic on the open wiki. Most of the redirected traffic is just lost, either because Google doesn't like the redirect and drops pages lower in the rankings, or because people don't like finding themselves on a different site than they anticipated and are hesitant to return.

      That is why we now archive wikis that want to merge, leaving them visible but un-editable, and put a big banner up with a link to the other, open wiki. We're hoping this will do a better job at getting the people who would have visited the one wiki to go to the other - and that months down the road, the combined wiki will have the united Google (and editor) power of both, so we can finally completely close the archived wiki. We only started adopting this approach and are still far from actually closing down any of the wikis that merged so far.

      To get back to WoW and the debate at hand:

      To me, it essentially sounds like everyone agrees that one united community for WoW fans would be better than two parallel ones, but there is considerable doubt whether the people involved could work together productively on the same platform, and whether it should even be attempted. If, as it stands, you can't currently see a way to overcome personal differences, or even be sure it's worth it, then of course Fandom will have to accept that and the two wikis will continue as they are for now. 

      Keeping that in mind, though, maybe a "light" version of working together could be an option? It seems no one really denied that Wowpedia is more up-to-date and has a more active community and more pageviews. That means, if a merger were to happen, it'll most likely happen there. Anyone who is an active editor here and who is not a community member (yet) at Wowpedia could start editing there, just to test the waters.

      Would you enjoy editing there as much? Are there any concrete things you don't like, any roadblocks that we can then talk about? Besides personal differences and a fraught history, what else stands in the way of a merger? Both wikis could stay open, everyone has a choice of where to edit, but if any content decisions are to be made on either one of the wikis, members of both communities could participate in the decision-making process. And perhaps down the road, fully merging into one community on GP might seem a lot more feasible to most if not all people here.

      Please excuse me if this sounds naive - I don't know what was/is at the core of the rift between Pcj and Fandyllic, and I don't know the exact history of these two communities from years back (and this is not the place to rehash it!), so maybe my suggestion is either already embarassingly obvious to everyone or not even feasible. It just seems to me that it doesn't have to be black and white/"do we or don't we" - it could be a gradual process. 

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    • Mira Laime wrote:

      Keeping that in mind, though, maybe a "light" version of working together could be an option? It seems no one really denied that Wowpedia is more up-to-date and has a more active community and more pageviews. That means, if a merger were to happen, it'll most likely happen there. Anyone who is an active editor here and who is not a community member (yet) at Wowpedia could start editing there, just to test the waters.

      Would you enjoy editing there as much? Are there any concrete things you don't like, any roadblocks that we can then talk about? Besides personal differences and a fraught history, what else stands in the way of a merger? Both wikis could stay open, everyone has a choice of where to edit, but if any content decisions are to be made on either one of the wikis, members of both communities could participate in the decision-making process. And perhaps down the road, fully merging into one community on GP might seem a lot more feasible to most if not all people here.

      Please excuse me if this sounds naive - I don't know what was/is at the core of the rift between Pcj and Fandyllic, and I don't know the exact history of these two communities from years back (and this is not the place to rehash it!), so maybe my suggestion is either already embarassingly obvious to everyone or not even feasible. It just seems to me that it doesn't have to be black and white/"do we or don't we" - it could be a gradual process. 

      Thanks for the honest commentary. There is of course, a "light" version of collaboration, but there are some big barriers having nothing to do with my relationship with Pcj. Number one is that making a GP account is kind of a pain. It appears that you have to create a Twitch account (which you might not want to do) to log in to GP. If that barrier could be overcome for Wikia users, it might help.

      Another one is the almost universal expressed reluctance by any Wowpedia users so far to help out at WoWWiki.

      Am I wrong here? If so, please correct me.

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    • Fandyllic wrote:

      Another one is the almost universal expressed reluctance by any Wowpedia users so far to help out at WoWWiki.

      Forgive me, but I'm a bit confused as to why you would expect that the people who left WoWWiki for Wowpedia would have continued editing WoWWiki.

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    • True, if you want to edit on Gamepedia, you need a separate account via Twitch. Your Fandom account won't work there (obviously) and even if the two platforms merge in a technical sense down the road, and if we combine our account management systems, which is still a big If, that is likely too far down the road for us to wait for. 

      So yes, you need two separate accounts, and you can't see whose account on Gamepedia corresponds to whose account on Fandom. That is admittedly a real, practical barrier that we can't feasibly tear down any time soon. Creating an account via Twitch for Gamepedia isn't hard, though - it takes a couple of seconds. At worst, you won't be able to use the exact same name you have on Fandom because someone else already took it. An obstacle, but not a dealbreaker, I should think. 

      If, long-term, the potential vision is to merge the whole community on Gamepedia, then it does indeed not make too much sense for Wowpedia editors to contribute on WoWWiki, just to test if collaborating could work out, since their contribs would just have to be moved over to Gamepedia in the end anyway, or else end up archived and locked down once the merge happens.

      What Wowpedia editors could do to test this collaboration, is to allow a voice for and make space for WoWWiki editors on their platform. If there is a decision to be made, e.g. a new admin to promote, a content restructuring to decide on, then active editors on the WoWWiki side should be allowed to vote, because it may one day become their community, too. If someone has shown they're a capable and responsible editor on one side, that should count on the other side, too. Sure, they're two separate platforms and some features work a bit differently, but overall, if you know how to edit on Fandom, you'll know how to edit on Gamepedia.

      If Wowpedia editors embark on adding any new content to the wiki, they could first check if it exists on WoWWiki and port it over via Special:Import/Export or in another way that gives attribution to the original WoWWiki authors, instead of duplicating efforts. 

      At least those are ways in which I imagine the two communities could get closer without either side really sacrificing anything, working towards a merger without committing to anything just yet. 

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    • I'd like to thank Mira for her suggestion about a light-mode cooperation between the two communities as a preface to future cooperation. I think that's a good option to discuss. 

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    • Pcj

      Mira Laime wrote: If there is a decision to be made, e.g. a new admin to promote, a content restructuring to decide on, then active editors on the WoWWiki side should be allowed to vote, because it may one day become their community, too. If someone has shown they're a capable and responsible editor on one side, that should count on the other side, too.

      The voting eligibility is already pretty lenient at Wowpedia. RFA is more rare but there would be nothing in particular restricting those votes either.

      As I've said before, we're certainly interested in WoWWiki people coming over.

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    • "Another one is the almost universal expressed reluctance by any Wowpedia users so far to help out at WoWWiki." - Fandyllic

      What exactly do you mean by this? If a merger is to happen on Wowpedia, then there is no point in editing Wowwiki, as Mira Laime said. 

      We have also already stated that we would like to incorporate the little data that is unique to Wowwiki on Wowpedia, multiple times.




      Other than the petty grudges that, one might think, people would be able to get over with, I really see no obstacle to a merger. Having to create a new account is expected and will happen ayway, whether it's Fandom to Gamepedia or Gamepedia to Fandom.

      It is sad that the only real barrier that exists to the benefit of the community is just that, a petty 10-year-old grudge. So my suggestion is for you (general "you") to get over it.

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    • I agree with Mira and we welcome any WoWWiki user to test Wowpedia :)

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    • Is anyone already working on moving over the valuable content that is unique to WoWWiki (adding the proper attribution, of course)?

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    • Pcj

      No. We need to identify it first. There is a lot of content on both sites, much of it with the same origin - and the stuff that may not have been written by the same person is generally still talking about the same stuff.

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    • xporc here. I already know about the following pages where the wowwiki coverage is better than ours:

      There are probably plenty of such pages

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    • It's as good a place as any to start, I suppose. 

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    • Here is another, only somewhat merge-related question: When Classic WoW comes out, that new information will need to be documented somewhere. Ideally, the combined Fandom/Gamepedia editor community should focus their efforts in one place, not spread it between the Fandom Classic WoW wiki, Wowpedia and perhaps even WoWWiki. Where should Classic WoW stuff go?

      From a pure SEO/data focus point of view, the best place to add all the information would be on Wowpedia, given that it's the most active, most visible WoW wiki in our network, possibly the future home of the combined WoWWiki and Wowpedia editor communities, and likely the first place where players go look for new stuff. 

      A Classic WoW wiki already exists on Fandom, as you all are probably aware. It has a ton of pages, but very little traffic, compared to WoWwiki and especially compared to Wowpedia: https://classic-wow.fandom.com 

      Good content from there could be moved to Wowpedia, and Fandom could archive the Classic WoW wiki (assuming editors there are okay with it, too!) to make sure new and returning editors know where to focus their efforts. If everything was concentrated on Wowpedia, we'd have to come up with a way to structure pages so that people still easily find information relevant to the game they're looking for, even if something (a class, race, etc.) exists in multiple versions. This would be quite a bit of work, and perhaps a real stress test for a future potential merger of WoWpedia and WoWWiki communites.

      What are everyone's thoughts on this?

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    • Pcj

      We've discussed that from a Wowpedia perspective and have already started the process of getting the structure set up. Xporc is the one really leading that charge. The Classic WoW wiki here was mentioned already in this very thread, but I'm not sure there's a lot existing on that wiki that we are particularly lacking on Wowpedia. (I understand most of the content there was designed to be restored, but that's not particularly useful if we could get it from WoWWiki instead)

      As I mentioned in the first post, there may have been screenshots, etc, from classic WoW that didn't make the transfer from WoWWiki to Wowpedia for one reason or another. Having WoWWiki as a resource in these cases would be useful. For some content, though, it may be easier to just start fresh rather than trying to dig through a bunch of history, deleted pages, etc, to see what was formerly documented.

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    • Other than Raylan13 and myself, there have been just two legitimate users on Classic WoW Wiki since its creation, and they have a mere 6 edits between them. So, I wouldn't say any sort of community has actually been established there yet. Since Raylan13 / Frejya is no longer around, and I have stopped generating content there myself, I'm almost convinced that the wiki could blink out of existence and barely anyone would notice. I've also been told that since the community development team was dissolved, it is safe to assume that project has been shelved as well.

      If Wowpedia already has a team of active users discussing/creating content for WoW Classic, then they are in a much better position to move forward with such a project. Without any more contributors on the Fandom-side, our version of the project is going nowhere. If you would like any insight into where the most useful content from that wiki could be found (to migrate to Wowpedia), I would be happy to provide that info.
      - Sitb @fandom (Message wall / Talk page) 09:29, June 1, 2019 (UTC)

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    • Pcj

      Sitb wrote:

      If you would like any insight into where the most useful content from that wiki could be found (to migrate to Wowpedia), I would be happy to provide that info.

      Absolutely.

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    • xporc here.

      What I'm worried about here is lack of manpower. I mean, I mentioned a few pages where wowwiki is better than wowpedia, but that was that, just the first couples of pages that came to my mind. There are probably tons more, and scouring wowwiki for such page would be an immensely time-consuming task. I'm ready to put several hours daily on the wowpedia project but I've personally already reached the limit of time I can invest in this as a free project. I can't do much more than what I already do.

      The WoW Classic project on wowpedia has such has seen very slow advances in the last few months :/ Projects and urgencies keep coming, but on our side we're losing editors as people get disinterested in Warcraft. So unless FANDOM and several wowwiki editors are ready to come forward and help, don't be in too much of a hurry when it comes to such mergers.

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    • I have a question, in the case WoW Wiki had to close, will the french site also be affected or it concerns only the English version ?

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    • Pcj

      The French wiki would certainly be welcome to merge with French Wowpedia, which is inactive so at least there shouldn't be any personality conflicts. It would be nice to have everything on one platform, but if you wanted to stay I'm not going to force that issue.

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    • To be honest, I would like to stay on the french wiki that I'v been maintaining for few years, and a little because I find the French Wowpedia very incomplete, in comparison. However, I'm not the main admin, so I prefer that you also ask the opinion of Lomsbir and Mariaccia, who are among the most active contributors to the site with me.

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    • Pcj

      If it's a content issue, note that can all be brought over to update the French Wowpedia.

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    • Since we're on the topic of consolidating wikis, there's also a FANDOM Warcraft Movie wiki

      https://warcraftmovies.fandom.com/wiki/Warcraft_Movies_Wikia

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    • 109.215.66.206 wrote:
      Since we're on the topic of consolidating wikis, there's also a FANDOM Warcraft Movie wiki

      https://warcraftmovies.fandom.com/wiki/Warcraft_Movies_Wikia

      That wiki might need to be discussed with the Movies/TV team.
      - Sitb @fandom (Message wall / Talk page) 00:08, June 3, 2019 (UTC)

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    • That wiki could probably just be closed and redirected, because it's completely dead - no edits, and virtually no traffic. That would at least further consolidate the WoW info that is already on Fandom. 

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    • Update: I have closed and redirected the Warcraft Movies Wiki, since it was virtually dead and this wiki already has information on the movies. We're working towards a unified community, not more splinter wikis after all. 

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    • I figure it makes sense to start a new thread to coordinate the content management for Classic WoW since it's a somewhat separate debate from whether/how Wowpedia and WoWWiki could merge. Please follow me

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    • A FANDOM user
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