Talk: Yogg-Saron

Wotlk Template

This IS an Old God but should he be considered a major wotlk article? From my understanding the template isn't supposed to be used on possible bosses or major lore characters even if they don't appear prior to WoTLK, correct me if i'm wrong.

• Perhaps we should wait for a possible Nerubian Raid where this being could be a boss. And then decide again. --Afaslizo (talk) 15:02, 26 August 2008 (UTC)

• By now he's only mentioned on WOTLK quests and also is somehow linked to some resources of northrends. Althrough, he is an old god indeed...--Azahel 19:52, 26 August 2008 (UTC)

I can accept your reasonings and i'm new enough to the wiki to not mercilessly edit everything i don't agree with, but even raid bosses arent part of "Major wotlk articles" the way i see it. Amirw (talk) 20:17, 26 August 2008 (UTC)

Credits

There's a beast in the credits that might be him... -- 10:51, 7 September 2008 (UTC)

Any pics of said beast? Put it in my talk page, interested to check it out. :) Amirw (talk) 11:39, 11 September 2008 (UTC)

Finally got a picture of him, beast with a thousand maws (hideous!):

File:Beast1kmaws.jpg

-- 20:31, 12 September 2008 (UTC)

Looks more like a normal undead than an old god for me Azahel (talk) 08:17, 13 September 2008 (UTC)

Where did you find this, and are you certain it is really Yogg-Saron? Xavius, the Satyr Lord 14:11, 14 September 2008 (UTC)

In the MPQ it is called MaginnisTGC. my guess is it is a Icecrown undead boss. Leviathon (talk) 04:19, 20 September 2008 (UTC)

Art

Artist's depiction of Yog-Sothoth.

That's a flying spaghetti monster :P --Kinkku (talk) 15:17, 12 September 2008 (UTC)

I put much faith that we'll see something like this spaghetti monster on wow, as c'thun had at last some remembrace of cthulhu, both from books by H.P Lovecraft on wich many namesfrom World of Warcraft are based. We can also expect him to be something like a "form of a conglomeration of glowing bubbles/a congeries of iridescent globes" also mentioned on the book "The Horror in the Museum - H.P Lovecraft". Azahel (talk) 08:30, 13 September 2008 (UTC)

C'thun resembled nothing like Cthulu... Cthulu is reptilian humanoid with a squid-head, and wings. He was not a wriggling orifice or an eyeball...Baggins (talk) 19:31, 14 September 2008 (UTC)

I'm talking about his head... and forget the eye Azahel (talk) 23:30, 14 September 2008 (UTC)

I'd agree with Baggins; C'thun looks nothing like Cthulhu. If anything he more resembles this species of Alien Intelligences i read about in an RPG book, which were known as the Splugorth; basically a huge mountain of flesh covered with tentacles, mouths and eyeballs. JPlowman2 (talk) 03:19, 1 November 2008 (UTC)

I'm sorry even if we talk about Cthulu's head, they don't even closely resemble each other... Cthulu's head was a squid. The nautilus-like skull in the Master's Glaive is somewhat closer to Cthulu, but even that's a stretch...

Cthun looks more like Mantorok from Eternal Darkness: Sanity's Requiem that is manipulating the main characters in order to destroy the various elder gods in the game... Perhaps vaguely towards the description given for Lovecraft Mythos creature Azathoth. Perhaps a little bit of Shub-Niggurath too...Baggins (talk) 01:13, 15 September 2008 (UTC)

Forgotten one??

I know no one took the information out of nowhere but, is the source really reliable? Illidan easily released an old god that couldn't do the same even with his incredible power and the later is then defeated by arthas who now as the lich king keeps him under the control of the scourge? I'm starting to think that he's not one of the old gods "darker than even the lord of the burning legion" Azahel (talk) 00:37, 14 September 2008 (UTC)

What are you talking about? Arthas doesn't control Yogg-Saron. Toran Wildpaw of the Frenzyheart (talk) 00:52, 14 September 2008 (UTC)

" the Twilight's Hammer might be interested in the Old god Yogg-Saron that the Lich King holds prisoner." "released by Illidan's recently caused earthquakes... ...As they fought their way through, they soon encountered the monster who Anub'arak called "A forgotten one". " "The Old god Yogg-Saron is the Forgotten One that King Arthas the Death Knight fought alongside Anub'arak in the Warcraft 3: Frozen Throne Undead Campaign Chapter 7." Azahel (talk) 00:57, 14 September 2008 (UTC)

The information about Arthas holding Yogg-Saron prisoner was taken from Blizzplanet, and while they are ussualy reliable i didnt saw it being cited from any official source in itself. As for him being released, it was not from the Lich King's control but rather from whatever imprisoning enchantments the Titans casted on him, which Illidan's havoc on the earth partially destabilized. If he would have fully released Yogg-Saron, it is probable that Arthas, Anub'arak and whatever number of crypt fiends that were accompanying them would have perished, along with a world or two.
Just for reference, it is a common theme for lesser races (or single beings in illidan's case) to allow Old Gods influence to seep, such as in the Trogg case, the Well of Eternity incident from the War of The Ancients trilogy, C'thun's growing might under silithid protection, etc etc. Amirw (talk) 13:47, 14 September 2008 (UTC)

I agree with Amirw. While Blizzplanet is usually a reliable source, that doesn't mean it's gonna be 100% official, 100% of the time. Toran Wildpaw of the Frenzyheart (talk) 14:51, 14 September 2008 (UTC)

Toran: No source is ever 100% correct, 100% of the time. Including Blizzard, including the Star Ledger, including the BBC - seriously. Example: Blizzard saying they won't do PVE to PVP transfers. AND BOOM! We got PVE to PVP transfers now. I consider Blizzplanet reliable in this scenario and won't think otherwise till further proof or evidence is brought to the table. FieryAxel (Talk) 11:21, 14 September 2008 (ETC)

Ever heard of an expression? Toran Wildpaw of the Frenzyheart (talk) 15:26, 14 September 2008 (UTC)

No. FieryAxel (Talk) 11:28, 14 September 2008 (ETC)

No one's gonna tell you who to trust FieryaAxel, but considering ample evidence for Old Gods being stronger then anything the Lich King should be able to handle, i'd stick with my assumaption that the top "imprisonment" Arthas is doing can be summerised in stopping Yogg-Saron's nerubian followers. Feel free to elaborate why you disagree if you wish though. Amirw (talk) 17:47, 14 September 2008 (UTC)

well, that's all the information we have, but I still think that he wasn't the forgotten one on TFT Azahel (talk) 23:30, 14 September 2008 (UTC)

Excuse me? I was just saying you shouldn't say a source is unreliable because its unreliable - it makes no sense. FieryAxel (Talk) 23:36, 14 September 2008 (ETC)

If you go by Anub'arak's comment in TFT, and later lore in the rpg, the forgotten one that Arthas fought was just one of many forgotten ones living under Nothrend. The fact is they are dangerous creatures but that doesn't make them all 'old gods'.

Finally FieryAxel you should know better... We only allow verified official sources to be cited, and listed as official information. Fan websites are always questioned (if they are referenced they must have citations to official sources). Also info from them generally only appear as notes, or speculation sections. They must never be cited as primary citations.Baggins (talk) 00:40, 15 September 2008 (UTC)

Now that's more like it. It may be true, one day, but we can't say it now. Azahel (talk) 00:55, 15 September 2008 (UTC)

I was under the impression via Toran's response that the reason why the source is faulty, is because "no source is reliable 100% of the time" - which is no reason to claim a source is unreliable. As I said even the BBC gets things wrong, even Reuters, even Blizzard. I did not attempt to argue lore, I did not attempt to argue facts. I argued unlogical reasons. Please don't putted me in the middle of this, I want nothing to do with this. I'm sorry if it seemed like I was. FieryAxel (Talk) 24:04, 14 September 2008 (UTC)

No, don't take itwrong, he was just explaining to you, just as you did when you said your opinion, if we did not understand what you meant before, we got it now. Anyway, talk pages are to talk about the content, so let's stick on it. Azahel (talk) 01:22, 15 September 2008 (UTC)

Speculation...NOT!

he is THE forgotten one, blizzplanet has confirmed this, so do not make it "speculation", /sigh...Noobi666 (talk) 12:12, 10 October 2008 (UTC)

It says, I quote: "The Old god Yogg-Saron is the Forgotten One that King Arthas the Death Knight fought alongside Anub'arak in the Warcraft 3: Frozen Throne Undead Campaign Chapter 7." There are NO facts AT ALL from Blizzplanet that this is the truth, other than their word. I'd like to see some reference on it. g0urra[T҂C] 12:20, 10 October 2008 (UTC)

Gourra speaks the truth. Blizzplanet is not Blizzard, and with no source for this bit of info we can't claim that it's anything other than speculation at this point. -- Dark T Zeratul (talk) 21:39, 10 October 2008 (UTC)

Though "awesome"[1], they are not infallible.--SWM2448 22:12, 10 October 2008 (UTC)

Blizzplanet while an awesome site, is a secondary(interviews) or third party source. It is not a primary source.Baggins (talk) 22:53, 10 October 2008 (UTC)