Talk: World of Warcraft: Wrath of the Lich King

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5 August 2007 20 August 2007

(GC-Demo)

Anyone got an idea what GC-Demo could mean? --Raze 01:24, 2 August 2007 (UTC)

Games-Convention at Leipzig (biggest European gaming convenion that takes place in mid August in Germany). This is why it was registered with the German ratings board, because it'll be shown in Germany (though probably also at Blizzcon). Omacron 05:12, 2 August 2007 (UTC)

Blizzcon Pamphlet

Could someone at Blizzcon say what the enitre contents of the pamphlet seen in the article say? --200206a

I was there and it was just a general overview. I went to most of the panels and I have reviewed this page for accuracy. User:Tetsuo86/sig

OMG!

o my god already...they just came out with the bc, and when does this come out in stores?Airiph 21:21, 3 August 2007 (UTC)

No ETA at the moment. They had mentioned before that they would like to have an expansion per year. --GRYPHON^tc 21:22, 3 August 2007 (UTC)

ok...they should add necromancer as a hero too!Airiph 21:26, 3 August 2007 (UTC)

Death Night is a necromancer --chaos986 22:07, 3 August 2007 (UTC)

Ya I gues you`re right Im not gona argue--Airiph 22:59, 3 August 2007 (UTC)

On the money?

Though irrelevant at this point, user ideas are still listed here. I think it will be fun to see who was right about things.--SWM2448 23:03, 3 August 2007 (UTC)

- My bet is that there will be an NPC in the Howling Fjords zone named something along the lines of Slartibartfast and that he will have a fondness for Fjords :) --Toloran 22:47, 6 August 2007 (UTC)

Changes to the world map

- The large group of islands northwest of Lordaeron is no longer there, but there is a new, smaller group of islands north of the Tirisfal/WPL border
- 2 new islands just west of Westfall/Stranglethorn
- Silithus no longer bulges out of southwest Kalimdor, thus keeping more accurate with the portrayal of the zone ingame
- The bulge of land west/northwest of Stonetalon, commonly linked to various false rumors, has been removed
- New land mass north of Stormwind
--Adonzo 00:57, 4 August 2007 (UTC)

Interesting that the Sunwell Plateau hasn't been added even though it will be patched in before WLK. --Raze 02:24, 4 August 2007 (UTC)

The only changes to that map is the removal of the 4 islands Northwest of Lordaeron and that was just so they could fit Northrend. The other things are all exactly like the normal Azeroth world map except for the new Quel'Thelas look added in and Azuremyst and Bloodmyst Isles. Theres no silithus on the map for example because the map this is based off of is when Silithus did not yet exist. http://www.wowwiki.com/Image:Azeroth-alphamap-cities.jpg is the map it is based off of. Leviathon 03:11, 4 August 2007 (UTC)

It was strongly hinted that Sunwell Plateau will be the next dungeon out after Zul'Aman. User:Kirkburn/Sig3 05:59, 4 August 2007 (UTC)

Template?

After a bit, all Burning Crusade articles had a template {bc} I think, is there going to be something similar for WotLK? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 200206a (talk · contr).

WoWWiki_talk:Village_pump#.7B.7BWotlk.7D.7D_et_al. User:Adys/Sig 02:15, 4 August 2007 (UTC)

Template:Wotlk

This section concerns content related to Wrath of the Lich King.

Just so you don't have to even go there! User:Tetsuo86/sig

Dalaran

I'm interested in hearing how they are going to explain how the destroyed city of Dalaran will some how be moved to Northrend from the Eastern Kingdoms.
 ∙ Zurr  Talk ∙ Contr 05:49, 4 August 2007 (UTC)

Yup. Dalaran will be on the move as the Kirin'Tor want to take the fight to the blue dragons that wish to stop people from using magic (the dragons are slightly mad, like Malygos). Thus, Dalaran will appear in central Northrend, floating over one zone just north of the Dragonblight. Also, stuff to add! There will be two entrances to Northrend - Borean Tundra and Howling Fjord. Both serve the early levels, and you needn't visit both to progress. Tuskarr city is neutral, also a neutral faction in Fjord. More as I think of it :) User:Kirkburn/Sig3 06:04, 4 August 2007 (UTC)

Just because the dome is empty using that exploit doesn't mean anything. The city's probably been up and running for months underneath that thing. And when you have several thousand mages in a city made of magically-sensitive crystal, making the thing fly is probably not that difficult.--Ragestorm (talk · contr) 13:44, 4 August 2007 (UTC)

Hell, it'd probably be easy as cake to turn it into a giant magnataur and make it do the conga with that many mages in one place. ~ Peregrine

One can't help but wonder. This is actually good- as far as lore goes, it doesn't need anything tweaked or retconned, just a further evolution of the plot. --Ragestorm (talk · contr) 00:44, 5 August 2007 (UTC)

Yep, this expansion will be the one most loved by former Warcraft III players as it continues all the pieces found in the RTS series:

• Northrend (continent), all the areas, including Azjol-Nerub and the Icecrown
• Arthas
• Dalaran (as a real, huge, arcane city - remember, in TFT it had a huge underground system - sounds nice)
• Former Warcraft III heroes (all the 4 races had four heroes as of TFT)
• Sunwell Plateau (maybe, if the rumors are true)

--  Shandris  talk / contribs 00:57, 5 August 2007 (UTC)

Thats an interesting point, regarding the underground system. if Dalaran doesn't take the huge chunk of ground directly beneath it along for the ride, does that mean there will be a new instance where old Dalaran was?...this would also help me to, since it would server as a de facto capital for the kingdom of Dalaran in Lordaeron while the city is away doing its thing. Still, the reasoning behind allowing Horde in Dalaran will be interesting. As far as I am aware Dalaran is hostile to horde, especially orcs, undead and belfs, no ifs or buts and is a member of the alliance. --Nurizeko

It doesn't take a lot for the Kirin Tor to be tolerant of Horde members. The city was founded to further arcane knowledge and study. The only reason they were Alliance to begin with is because the orcs were trying to wipe them out. If the Blood Elf and troll magi are willing to bow to the Kirin Tor's authority (as human, high elf, and gnome mages already do), there wouldn't be a problem. Forsaken might be an issue, if only because of the whole undeady thing. --Ragestorm (talk · contr) 20:11, 5 August 2007 (UTC)

Dalaran will be completely nuetral like Shattrath. Nobody will have an advantage all races will be treated equaly too. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Rahnumed (talk · contr).

New Races

Will there be any new races? I doubt it but I was just wandering if Blizzard said no new races or not.--Sidney

Even if they were keeping it under wraps, they would have said they were introducing them. I think ten is enough for now. --Ragestorm (talk · contr) 18:02, 4 August 2007 (UTC)

Still, I think it is safe to assume we'll be meeting more races, such as the Nerubians. Not a sure thing of course, but quite possibly we'll ge recieving quests to enter the ruins of the nerubian empire, maybe salvage what is left of the spider race, perhaps from the nerubians themselves. ~ Peregrine

Yeah, we'll be meeting new races, such as the Taunka, the Vrykul and the Iron Dwarves. More about the Tuksarr and the Nerubians will probably be revealing. But I'm pretty sure there won't be new playable races in this one. --Ragestorm (talk · contr) 20:58, 4 August 2007 (UTC)

Oh no, almost definitely - hell they've used up all the two-legged races in lore already. I have no problem with, say, a magnataur race, but their four feet present problems. Personally, I think the races are fine as is. ~ Peregrine

Dont forget about our plucky little freinds the pandaren and of course the goblins. But there problbubly wont be anything since the guy said in the northrend panel that they werent adding any I think the liklyhood is pretty much nil.Cormundo 23:28, 4 August 2007 (UTC)

I think everyone agrees that ten races are enough for now. There are enough special features to keep everyone involved busy, so there is no need for new playables. --Ragestorm (talk · contr) 00:42, 5 August 2007 (UTC)

it is an official no.[1]--SWM2448 20:12, 5 August 2007 (UTC)

Yeah, in the Northrend panel at Blizzcon one of the devs said they are not going to have new races so the can focus all of their effort on Northrend itself. I am hoping that the next xpack would be centerend on the Great Sea and feature Goblins and Pandaren as the new races. Nathanmaxtro 05:58, 6 August 2007 (UTC)

Not necesarily...pandaren and goblin are pretty neutral.Airiph 22:55, 6 August 2007 (UTC)

Faceless Ones?

What do you guys think about those guys? Might we see them again? That'd be kind of neat to figure out what the hell they were... --Super Bhaal 02:11, 5 August 2007 (UTC)

Most significant Northrend denizens will likely make an appearance. This included the Faceless Ones. Of course, the Faceless Ones might have been permanently buried beneath Azjol'Nerub, but that hasn't been confirmed. --Ragestorm (talk · contr) 02:17, 5 August 2007 (UTC)

Bleh, I'm sure right now they're bickering over whether or not gnomes or goblins blow all the rubble away. I mean, both of them have done dumb things like that before... --Super Bhaal 03:05, 5 August 2007 (UTC)

At the lore panel Metzen mentioned we will be exploring Ajzol'Nerub and meet a Old God at the end. So I'd imagine we will see the Faceless Ones again. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Leviathon (talk · contr).

Mobs one can find

Add more in the style I did. --  Shandris  talk / contribs 10:07, 5 August 2007 (UTC)

Penguins? That's bull. The only way I'm killing a penguin is if I get artifacts from them. Off-topic as far as mobs are concerned, but what about the nerubians ( who didn't kick ) at Azjol-Nerub, and the countless undead ones? The Drakkari? Will we get to go to Zul'Drak? --Super Bhaal 21:47, 5 August 2007 (UTC)

This is not a forum. When mobs are announced in the bestiary, then we discuss how we add to the page. There is no reason to post random .gifs on the talk page. --Ragestorm (talk · contr) 22:29, 5 August 2007 (UTC)

Flying Mounts in Northrend?

As the topic says, what do you think about Flying Mounts in Northrend? I know Blizzard hasn't said anything about it yet, but we may speculate anyway. But the thing is: if you can only use Flying Mounts in Outland, I doubt anyone will buy one. Since you can only buy them when you have reached lvl 70, and when people have reached 70 they will probably not stay in Outland, but move on to Northrend. So if you ask me, it's most likely that Flying Mounts will be useable in Northrend aswell. --Odolwa 23:10, 5 August 2007 (UTC)

At the very least, it's been confirmed that flying mounts can be used to reach Dalaran, though it can also be reached via ground-based methods, possibly a bridge or portal. --Ragestorm (talk · contr) 23:20, 5 August 2007 (UTC)

As this page says - Flying mounts will also be usable in Northrend, but not until "level 75 or 78" as they want to "keep us grounded and guide us on foot".. Good to know that we won't be able to fly over Icecrown as soon as the continent opens. --Raze 00:06, 6 August 2007 (UTC)

The Death Knight

It occured to me, as I watched the trailer for WotLK, that I might have seen a mechanic similar to the one which Blizzard is presenting in the form of the Hero Class Death Knight. It comes from Lord of the Rings Online, specifically, [here]. Reasons for why I believe this is a good approxomation: -Death Knights are a product of the Scourge. As far I know, the lore does not mention the Forsaken having any Death Knights in their ranks. But, I could be wrong. (Ragestorm, any thoughts?) -Being products of the Scourge would make them enemies of the two main factions in WoW, the Horde and the Alliance. This would provide more than enough justification for Death Knights ganking whosoever they please. -If Death Knights were flagged for PvP for all factions, it would make sense to start them out as a higher level, thus avoiding the necessity of creating an entire third faction for the Scourge. Comments?--Weisskrieg 00:16, 6 August 2007 (UTC)

I had been thinking about this as well. To the best of my knowledge, there wasn't any discussion about what faction the Death Knight would be. Actually if I remember correctly, the question was dodged during the expansion discussion panel. What I would conceive is that the death knight will be aligned with a single faction. If it weren't, Death Knights would not be able to group or raid. They would also be confined to neutral cities, which would disrupt the economy that is in place. There are obvious lore issues with this, but here are ways around it. This could be done in the same way that Draenei picked up practicing shamanism...they realize that it isn't inherently evil, but the users can become evil. A line of lore could easily be crafted to being this realization upon the Alliance and Horde. The character isn't becoming the Lich King's servant, they are just becoming a player with the powers of a death knight. --Tetsuo86 17:36, 7 August 2007 (UTC)

You mentioned that if it were true, Death Knight as part of a third faction (or whatever), would not be able to interact with Alliance/Horde players such as grouping, etc...if they're creating the Death Knight, I am pretty sure they can code it to allow them to group with other players as a very trivial aspect of the Death Knight experience. Working with a single new addition (hero classes, one by one), it would be pretty hard to have such a large oversight as this. I don't see why this wouldn't work, you would be living a dangerous life, hunted wherever you go...but perhaps feared as well...able to enter non-faction specific cities (Shattrath City is one, goblin cities another yes?). I mean there are ways, it's their job to find these out and make it work, if this is what they're after, anyway.Arideni 14:04, 12 August 2007 (UTC)

Grim Batol & Uldum

It has been hinted that Grim Batol and Uldum may also be dungeons.

Where was this hinted? Any links or quotes would be appreciated. I have been thinking about the chance that Uldum is the 5-man dungeon pre-expansion that they are "toying with", in order to bridge he gap between Uldaman and Ulduar. --Raze 00:55, 6 August 2007 (UTC)

Well since Blizzard has said the Red Flight will be aiding us in Northrend it would seem likely we will be seeing it opened. Also since Ulduar will be open in Northrend then Uldum being opened just makes sense. Leviathon 01:09, 6 August 2007 (UTC)

OK, Reworded for accuracy. --Raze 01:22, 6 August 2007 (UTC)

3.0

During the items and professions panel WotLK was often referred to as "3.0", so it's safe to assume that the numbering system will continue with each expansion Oahkoah 01:29, 6 August 2007 (UTC)

This is what is always done with versioning...it goes <Major Release>.<Minor Release>.<Major revision>.<Minor revision> --Tetsuo86 15:07, 7 August 2007 (UTC)

The Blue Dragonflight.

From the information release thus far, the Kirin Tor have moved Dalaran to Northrend as a front against the Blue Dragonflight. Apparently Malygos has gotten worse and decided that the mortal races shouldn't be using magic anymore. The Red Dragonflight will be helping the mortal races. I have no idea how Blizzard is going to pull it off but it should at least be interesting. Nathanmaxtro 06:04, 6 August 2007 (UTC)

I'd imagine we will just have the help of some Red Dragons to knock some sense into Malygos if we do end up fighting him. Leviathon 07:05, 6 August 2007 (UTC)

meh....id like to see a massive dragon fight, then come in and kill them all with a 25 man, + kill big blue boss, as long as he doesnt drop any blues -.- Lethalnl 14:27, 6 August 2007 (+1 gmt)

Tyri's pet nether dragon gets to help somehow.--SWM2448 16:06, 6 August 2007 (UTC)

Dungeons and end-game content

Everything not 100% said by Blizzard should be removed from this page.--SWM2448 16:08, 6 August 2007 (UTC)

Agreed, or at the very least add like a "speculations" section at the bottom of the page or add a Wrath of the Lich King Speculation page, like was done with the Old Gods and Old Gods Speculation. ~ Peregrine

Interesting interview with Tigole...apparently, Kel'Thuzad is gonna make a comeback as a boss who needs killing:

So what I want to do in Northrend is to take Naxxramas in all of its glory, scale it down to the 25 man raid size, and then take the difficulty and retune it—obviously we’d tune for level 80, it would no longer be tuned for level 60, since that would be a little silly and it wouldn’t be a lot of fun for people at that point—but I want to put rewards in there that are very exciting to level 80 players, but make it the entry-level raid, very accessible, tune the encounters so that there’s something for everybody to do, and let the majority get a chance to see that content that they hadn’t seen before.

Source: [2] --Joshmaul 20:01, 7 August 2007 (UTC)

Controversy section

I have removed this ([3]) as it is uncited and adds little to the page. User:Kirkburn/Sig3 08:02, 7 August 2007 (UTC)

Why do people have such a huge problem comprehending the idea that Blizzard knows what they're doing? Have you noticed how the overwhelming majority of BC complaints vanished after the release?--Ragestorm (talk · contr) 12:37, 7 August 2007 (UTC)

Yes. Blizzard will NOT ruin the single more profitable venture in the history of gaming. Trust me. Also, they are the most skilled game-crafters in the industry (IMHO). Please stop trying to sour the pot. --Tetsuo86 15:09, 7 August 2007 (UTC)

Well, we certainly shouldn't attempt to whitewash Blizzard here, but unless the complaints can be cited and well-known, they don't belong here. User:Kirkburn/Sig3 18:21, 7 August 2007 (UTC)

Yeah, I would say it should be removed because it was uncited and because it presumes alot about the expansion that is not clear. You can't say raising the level cap to 80 is too soon when we don't know the release date or at least an announced release date. BC took awhile to come out and wrath could take about as long or longer. Otherwise, I would recommend a bit more restraint in removing content. Try editing it first and then remove it if it becomes an edit war. --Fandyllic (talk · contr) 11:39 AM PDT 7 Aug 2007

I just don't want WoWWiki to become another place like the WoW Forums where all people to is whine about what they want and what makes them sad. User:Tetsuo86/sig

Over our (and their) dead bodies. --Ragestorm (talk · contr) 13:58, 9 August 2007 (UTC)

Gnomes in Northrend

Apparently there is word of a Gnomish City in Northrend, as mentioned by Blue, Nethaera. http://blue.cardplace.com/newcache/us/916802363.htm The above link is a cache of the post. If you need the official World of Warcraft Forums link here u go http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=916802363&pageNo=1&sid=1#3 --Chicknfood 17:37, 9 August 2007 (UTC)

Until it is stated by Blizzard in a press release, FAQ, or other official resource, we should hold off on adding it to the article. User:Tetsuo86/sig

Nethaera is an official source. Besides, they briefly showed it during the intro panel - there is probably an image somewhere around - it has a really tall radar tower and a proper landing strip (yes, really). User:Kirkburn/Sig3 19:43, 9 August 2007 (UTC)

I was talking about the website, not the person. I was at BlizzCon as well and went to the same panels as you did :p User:Tetsuo86/sig

What makes you think that the WoW Forums don't meet the qualifications for official sources?APΘLLΘ^(ZEUS) 17:51, 10 August 2007 (UTC)

Here is a picture of the town from the Borean Tundra video if you want to use this as proof enough (If Blizzard themselves you don't think are reliable sources). http://s113.photobucket.com/albums/n219/leviathonlx3/?action=view&current=gnometown.jpg Leviathon 18:49, 11 August 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for that picture indeed. If you look at it closely, you will notice that this town has an airstrip. The only races who could possibly introduce those are goblins and gnomes. However, if you look at - for instance - Ratchet and compare it to - say - Toshley's Station you'll see that this town looks much more similar to the latter.APΘLLΘ^(ZEUS) 21:59, 11 August 2007 (UTC)

Can also watch the video from the panel where the developer states its a gnomish town at that part. http://media.pc.ign.com/media/954/954150/vids_1.html Borean Tundra video. --Leviathon 22:05, 11 August 2007 (UTC)

Borean Tundra and Coldarra

Now on Blizzards map for Borean Tundra shown at Blizzcon in the Coldarra area it said 'sub-zone', and while it is hard to see on the map it is possible to make it out. So technically the Nexus is in Borean Tundra with Coldarra being a sub-zone. Basically it would be like saying Auchindoun is in the Bone Wastes instead of Terokkar Forest. I would go with Blizzards own map being more correct then speculation that it is it's own zone based on a RPG book map. The little text under Coldarra on the larger map just says 'sub-zone' while the other zones it gives the level ranges for that zone underneath the zone name. Currently there are 10 zones in Northrend them being Howling Fjord, Borean Tundra, Sholazar Basin, Dragonblight, Lake Wintergrasp, Zul'drak, Storm Peaks, Grizzly Hills, Crystalsong Forest, and Icecrown. If Blizzard went with a 11th zone I could go with it being a part of Ajzol'Nerub not the area of Coldarra. Coldarra is just the Bone Wastes of Northrend as a rather large sub-zone with a multi-winged instance in the middle. I can remember people speculating the Bone Wastes was it's own zone. http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o101/leviathonlx4/borean.jpg Leviathon 19:18, 15 August 2007 (UTC)

However, we have separate articles for them as they are very different areas. Given that map, it does seem fair to say it is a subzone of the Borean Tundra though. This isn't about making the numbers fit, but clarity. The game is still in development, so things can change. User:Kirkburn/Sig3 19:31, 15 August 2007 (UTC)

Yea I understand having 2 pages since both areas are pretty different. Just right now it should be mentioned that it is currently a sub-zone not its own actual zone since thats what it is right now. Course things can and will change a lot between now and the alpha next year, but Blizzard does tend to follow their layout maps for zones and instances with little to no changes. Leviathon 19:38, 15 August 2007 (UTC)

It's because if it would be two different zones, it would look ugly when looking on the Borean Tundra map that a big island to the west doesn't have texture. Instead of making two identical maps - one with fill, the other without - they made it all into one. Compare other zone + island scenarios: Durotar + the Echo Isles, Feralas + the Isle of Dread, Western Plaguelands + Caer Darrow, Silverpine Forest + Fenris Isle, etc... If an island isn't as giant as Kalidar (Teldrassil is the tree, that's the name of the island), it will belong to another zone. --  Shandris  talk / contribs 19:42, 15 August 2007 (UTC)

It depends on the map Shandris on maps such as the Alterac Mountains map the Fenris Isle is a untextured island in the northern part of the map since the island is in Silverpine. The zone really is just like Terokkar. It has a rather large portion that is a sub-zone that just isn't big enough to warrant making it its own zone. Leviathon 20:00, 15 August 2007 (UTC)

Previous to that map, however, Coldarra has always been a completely separate area, RPG-wise. User:Kirkburn/Sig3 20:17, 15 August 2007 (UTC)

Basically it's like the Bone Wastes which looked like and was its own zone before TBC on the old Warcraft II map. Blizzard probably figured it was best just to treat Coldarra the same way. Leviathon 20:46, 15 August 2007 (UTC)

New landmass

Aside from Northrend, take a look at the new map. There is certainly new land just west of Stormwind. New zone, perhaps? Blackhawk003 13:46, 16 August 2007 (UTC)

That zone is in the WOW intro cinematic and was in the WOW alfa. They may have used the map just for blizzcon because the zones aren't finalized Zakolj 19:03, 16 August 2007 (UTC)

I'd imagine it was just easier for them to fit Northrend into that map but it's also possible its a map thats even older than the alpha map. Since originally they intended on Northrend being in the original game it's possible that map was their original map just with some modifications. So rather then making a new map they just took one of their older ones and editted it a bit. Leviathon 20:22, 16 August 2007 (UTC)

What was in the zone, then? Kind of weird having something that looks like The Barrens in the middle of pretty, green Azeroth...I also like how they didn't include the Sunwell Plateau. D: The old game map had it. Maybe they mixed the current maps and the old ones and threw Northrend on top? --Super Bhaal 18:17, 18 August 2007 (UTC)

Last Expansion

This damn well better be the last expansion, I'd hate to have killed Arthas only to find that the game goes on to kill Ashara and/or Kil'jaiden. Blizzard must get this straight - the Lich King is the ultimate enemy, end of story. Plus they need to keep some enemies alive for Warcraft IV!Mannerheim 07:04, 17 August 2007 (UTC)

Why is he the ultimate enemy? Is this what you have been led to believe? How do you know Azshara is not more powerful? Most enemies from WC3 didn't exist before WC3 and nearly every NPC is invented in WoW - why can new ones not be made? Basically, I'm saying - there is little need to panic. User:Kirkburn/Sig3 07:38, 17 August 2007 (UTC)

They do have it straight, Arthas isn't the strongest enemy in the universe (at least in my book). --Raze 08:10, 17 August 2007 (UTC)

Hate to break it to you Mannerheim, but I heard somewhere that Blizzard wants to make one expansion per year. I'm sure if we bug them enough they'll make that one featuring The Great Sea.

We've still got to fight Azshara, Malygos, Deathwing ( he's got to be in another expansion if he's still alive... ), and the entire Burning Legion. Oh, then there's the Old Gods. If those don't work, I'm sure the writers'll come up with something else. Hell, we might even have to fight Garona. D: --Super Bhaal 09:13, 17 August 2007 (UTC)

It would probably be Sargeras that's the 'ultimate villain' in the Warcraft universe, especially since his status is kind of nebulous. Since the portals are now open on Outland (according to comments by Metzen on blizzplanet) it's probable that we'll get a Twisting Nether expansion pack. I'm guessing that after WotLK, we'll get two more XPs; one dealing with Azshara and the Old Gods and another dealing with the Burning Legion permenantly. Since this would bring the level cap up to 100 (presumably), I'm guessing that that'll be the last game in the series.

Anyway, that's just me.Hawki 13:26, 17 August 2007 (UTC)

Still plenty of characters for us to fight after Arthas. We have Ashzara, the Emerald Nightmare and whatever is causing it, the Old Gods that are left, The Elemental Plane and the rest of the Burning Legion. Also Metzen said new bad guys and heroes will arise in the game from the WoW comic. Leviathon 16:56, 17 August 2007 (UTC)

Notes: Scarlet Crusade and nasty Gnomes

What would be great would be to have a few of the Scarlet Crusade expedition alive and friendly to Alliance, and the rest raised by the Scourge, with large areas of battle scarred land.

Also, why are there nasty Gnomes in Valgarde in the expansion trailer. Gnomes didn't take part in the Third War and they'll ruin the majesty of it.Mannerheim 07:09, 17 August 2007 (UTC)

What nasty gnomes? User:Kirkburn/Sig3 07:39, 17 August 2007 (UTC)

I'm sure there were some gnomes that lived in Ironforge with the dwarves back then, who helped in Lordaeron. --Super Bhaal 09:14, 17 August 2007 (UTC)

There were no gnomes around during the Third War according to WoW manuals and RPG. However there has been plenty of time for gnomes to have moved to Northrend between TFT and Wrath. According the RPG there has been travelers to Valgarde for a while now. Its essentially the Alliance main port and base of operations in the NorthTemplate:Baggins10:03, 17 August 2007 (UTC)

Hmm, thanks for clearing that up. I always thought since the gnomes and dwarves were such good friends a couple of them would've tagged along to Lordaeron during the Third War or something...you know, contributing but staying in the dwarves' shadows...you'd think that at least one gnome who happened to be there would take an interest in the plague or something. --Super Bhaal 10:49, 17 August 2007 (UTC)

I think That a few years have past from warcraft III I think its 4 to WOW and another to TBC and maybe another 1 to WOTLK there is a female draenei in the trailer if they could get to Nortland in a year then gnomes could and can get to Nortrend. IF you think of the gnome town that is in the Borean Tundra Zakolj 12:34, 17 August 2007 (UTC)

Like, five or six years I think. I got nothing against it, after all it's entirely possible with all the technology at the gnomes' disposal. I'm sure they'll strike up a neat little rivalry with goblins there too. Something along the lines of oil rights, mayhaps? ...glacier water? --Super Bhaal 17:53, 17 August 2007 (UTC)

The gnomes may not have played any role in the Third War...but they did contribute to the Second War (Gnomish Flying Machines, Gnomish Submarines). I was actually a little surprised that they weren't in WC3, truthfully; maybe that was when the whole war against the troggs in Gnomeregan was going on? --Joshmaul 03:43, 20 August 2007 (UTC)