Talk:Troll

September 2006: As per the recent race names vote at Wowpedia talk:Writing policy#Race name case, the correct race name spelling is "troll" and not "Troll"

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Every time I visit a page, there is no disscussion. Why?

Also, who votes trolls and night elfs are related? Charred But Alive 11:29, 22 June 2006 (EDT)

I'd say odds on are that they are related at some point. I thought I'd throw out something historical here. I know that according to a lot of WoW info Trolls are canabals. Just as a note, the notion of savage groups of people slaughtering humans for food is pretty much the subject of legend. Canabalism typically involved the eating of a small part of an honored dead's body in order to carry their spirit forward. This is probably what most Trolls practiced. Just thought I'd throw that to the wolves.

I thought I'd add that Trolls are my favorite Horde race. They seem to have the strongest cultural developement of any of them next to Tauren, who rank up there on my favorites to play.

bridgettebeneshe

Bow Specialization?

Why do the Trolls get bow specialization as a racial trait? Saimdusan

Simple answer? Because throwing weapons was an incredibly stupid racial. Lorewise I have no idea what could justify it. I vaguely remember night elves having a +5 bow racial around the beta.--Grid 00:48, 20 November 2006 (EST)

Every Troll before WoW used throwing weapons, except for one spellcaster (the Witchdoctor).

Shadow Hunter. Wc2 Axethrower. Headhunter. Forest/Dark/Ice Troll creeps. Batrider. All of 'em. Saimdusan 02:34, 7 December 2006 (EST)

You can't seriously be suggesting they get rid of +5 bows?--Grid 03:52, 7 December 2006 (EST)

If throwing weapons got revamped so that they're on par with bows, why Trolls would need bows then? --Sul'jin 20:30, 28 December 2006 (EST)

Length?

How can Trolls be shorter than both Tauren and Night Elves? Whoever wrote that obviously never have played WoW.--Odolwa 00:58, 1 December 2006 (EDT)

Double-check the numbers before you start throwing accusations; the night elf article lists them at 7 feet, six inches shorter than the troll.--Ragestorm 19:11, 30 November 2006 (EST)

Oh, I'm sorry about that. But still, it feels a bit strange that a Tauren would be taller than an upright standing Troll. Is this information official (if so, what's the source?) or is it pure speculation?.--Odolwa 17:23, 1 December 2006 (EST)

I wouldn't say "pure" speculation, that's unfair. Why does it seem strange? --Ragestorm 13:09, 1 December 2006 (EST)

According to the RPG, trolls range between 7-10 feet, not counting the dire troll variety.Baggins 13:27, 1 December 2006 (EST)

It's strange because if you compare a troll side by side with a tauren, they are the same height (The males that is. The females don't slouch). In their idle animation when they stand up, straighten their backs and roll their shoulders they are easily a head higher than taurens.--Grid 04:28, 2 December 2006 (EST)

Racenames

Is this article about Island/Darkspear Trolls specifically, or Trolls in general? --Ragestorm, Head Bookkeeper 11:15, 28 December 2006 (EST)

Trolls in general, which includes Darkspear Trolls here. --Tinkerer 11:19, 28 December 2006 (EST)

Call me nitpicky, but I think that should be changed. I mean, yes, they're called Trolls in the manual and on the char creation screen, but Forsaken are also called Undead, and they have separate articles. Especially when the article is about all trolls, but the racebox is about Horde trolls. We'll need, say, Troll (general) for the general race and Troll (Horde) or Darkspear Trolls.--Ragestorm, Head Bookkeeper 11:23, 28 December 2006 (EST)

I agree, the Horde trolls and trolls in general should be separated. -- Kirkburn (talk) 11:26, 28 December 2006 (EST)

Right then: launching WoWWiki:Bookkeepers/Operation Darkspear.--Ragestorm, Head Bookkeeper 11:34, 28 December 2006 (EST)

Darkspear Troll and Troll, I'd say. Agreed about the rest. --Tinkerer 11:35, 28 December 2006 (EST)

Then some poor fellow is gong to need to need to go through articles making sure that all references to playable trolls, not the general article.--Ragestorm, Head Bookkeeper 11:39, 28 December 2006 (EST)

Troll (player race)? Infact we could do that for every player race, so that we could seperate gameplay from lore.Baggins 11:47, 28 December 2006 (EST)

Absolutely not. It's going to be Troll and Darkspear Troll.--Ragestorm, Head Bookkeeper 11:51, 28 December 2006 (EST)

If you're gonna separate the Trolls into different articles, you will have to do the same with all other races. Not all humans are part of the playable humans (Syndicate, Scarlet Crusade, etc.), not all Tauren are (Grimtotem). Same with Orcs (Blackrock clan), Dwarves (Dark Iron clan). So please keep it in one article, or else it will be mighty confusing. I would also suggest mixing the "Forsaken"-article with the "Undead"-article, making "Undead" the main-article. After all, Forsaken is the name of the faction, not the race itself.--Odolwa 17:51, 28 December 2006 (EST)

Alright. Ragestorm, I just hope that the gamers who care nothing about lore, and just think of the player trolls as trolls, don't get confused and start adding in info about player trolls back into the trolls category. That could be a poential headache.Baggins 11:54, 28 December 2006 (EST)

I had a similar problem when making categories for the various troll tribes. How would we treat category:trolls, category:jungle trolls or potentially category:Darkspear trolls? I made cats for ice trolls, sand trolls, and forest trolls, but jungle trolls was a whole nother box of sharp objects... --Varghedin 18:01, 28 December 2006 (CET)

If they care nothing about lore, and don't have the eyes to see that this is a lore article, then their edits will borderline vandalism. Proceed is you wish, though- I'll see what the result's like.--Ragestorm, Head Bookkeeper 12:05, 28 December 2006 (EST)

For sanity's sake, I say Trolls should be about the playable race, Darkspear Trolls, and redirect to Trolls (playable) (or similar, or in fact just to Darkspear Trolls) with a disambig at the top saying "Did you want the article about Trolls in general", linking to a pagename something like Trolls (species). -- Kirkburn (talk) 12:15, 28 December 2006 (EST)

Agree with Kirkburn, this Wiki is supposed to be accessible and easy-navigated by everyone, not just us lore-fanatics ;).--Odolwa 18:21, 28 December 2006 (EST)

Indeed. Note that I am not saying the article Trolls should be about the playable race, but that it should redirect to the playable race page. That way, visitors learn the correct name and at the same time are still only one click away from the general troll article (via the disambig). -- Kirkburn (talk) 12:40, 28 December 2006 (EST)

Ya, I agree.Baggins 12:41, 28 December 2006 (EST)

This could also be applied to Tauren, though in that case it is less clear-cut. -- Kirkburn (talk) 12:48, 28 December 2006 (EST)

This can apply to almost every playable race in the game. Just that we have so much more information about the troll compare to other races. (e.g. Troll Compendium, every quest of ZG/ZF) --Voidvector 13:11, 28 December 2006 (EST)

Excellent. And no need to fiddle with the other player race pages. --Ragestorm, Head Bookkeeper 17:23, 28 December 2006 (EST)

Oh, there is alot more info in the RPG for tauren, if I ever get around to catalogueing it... But we can worry about splitting the pages when that time comes... :p... Same goes for the other races.Baggins 17:26, 28 December 2006 (EST)

I'm starting to curse whoever though up with that Light-forsaken RPG in the first place. --Ragestorm, Head Bookkeeper

I think it might be Metzen actually, or at least he was involved, he wrote a forward letter for one of the books, and talks about it in interviews, and "making of" videos, LOL. Ah you know you like learning more lore ;). LOLBaggins 17:34, 28 December 2006 (EST)

Oh ya there is a rumor that Garona was Metzen's half-orc DnD character before she was adapted into the first Warcraft game. Of course I've never been able to verify this rumor, so it won't be going in any articles while I'm on watch :p.Baggins 17:37, 28 December 2006 (EST)

Sounds possible, even if it's extreme speculation. She's been a very 'ethereal' character for a while, more an idea than a someone really specific. -- Kirkburn (talk) 17:43, 28 December 2006 (EST)

Maybe put the playable trolls into "Island Trolls" category - I don't remember having any other troll tribes except Darkspears being Island Trolls. You can have then have "Trolls" page as general, or redirecting to "Island Trolls", and general info to "Trolls (general)" or something similar. It could of course be still "Darkspear Trolls", as they are even more appriopriate, but if Island Trolls was used, we could leave Darkspear to the Lore. Or the other way.

"If you're gonna separate the Trolls into different articles, you will have to do the same with all other races. Not all humans are part of the playable humans (Syndicate, Scarlet Crusade, etc.), not all Tauren are (Grimtotem). Same with Orcs (Blackrock clan), Dwarves (Dark Iron clan). (cut) --Odolwa 17:51, 28 December 2006 (EST)

Well, everywhere are some black sheep, even individuals from the Darkspear Trolls. (e.g. Zalazane). There's no need to go so much into details. --Sul'jin 20:29, 28 December 2006 (EST)

Is even the name "Island Troll" an official term, or just a term invented on WoWWiki? Darkspear tribe doesn't even live on islands anymore.--Odolwa 02:31, 28 December 2006 (EST)

Island troll was what Darkspear was called back in Warcraft 3 because they lived on that small island out in the maelstrom. Yes they are still Jungle Trolls more than Island Trolls. The warcraft 3 manual even states they had originally been from Stranglethorn.Baggins 20:48, 28 December 2006 (EST)

==Titles?==--Zexx 23:49, 3 January 2007 (EST) "One with the Voodoo"? Sounds a bit wierd... What are those funny titles for anyway? --Sul'jin 19:17, 29 December 2006 (EST)

Flavour text. :) -- Kirkburn (talk) 19:20, 29 December 2006 (EST)

Ok, just gotta come up with something better for the trolls... --Sul'jin 19:28, 29 December 2006 (EST)

My apologies it's the best I could come up with at the time. If something better comes to you than the generic "islanders of Darkspear", by all means, change it. I kept picturing the witch doctor from War3 going "You come get da Voodoo..."--Zexx 22:42, 29 December 2006 (EST)

I need to see if there is a catchy title mentioned or implied in the Horde Player's Guide. Grr, so much to do... Course someone can put a placeholder in the mean time... Baggins 23:30, 29 December 2006 (EST)

"Trolls, secondborn of Azeroth" (Dragons came first, Earthen don't count)--Ragestorm, Head Bookkeeper 01:10, 30 December 2006 (EST)

Except for the rumors that murlocs may be older then all of them ;)Baggins 01:12, 30 December 2006 (EST)

Don't talk to me. I've sworn off hobbits for the remainder of the holiday season.--Ragestorm, Head Bookkeeper 01:14, 30 December 2006 (EST)

That sounds a bit too regal and flashy for my cannibalizing friends.--Zexx 04:28, 30 December 2006 (EST)

Maybe just "Followers of Voodoo" or sth similar? Zexx's idea about something with "Voodoo" is IMHO good one --Sul'jin 06:03, 30 December 2006 (EST)

So long as no REAL followers of Voodoo get offended and try to curse us. I've seen what they can do, and it ain't exactly pretty.--Ragestorm, Head Bookkeeper 09:47, 30 December 2006 (EST)

As for me, I don't think it would offend them in any way. Blizzard is trying to satisfy needs of every possible kind of player, so if we had a player who is as well a Follower of Voodoo in real, he probably would be proud that there is a whole race of Voodoo followers in game. --Sul'jin 16:50, 30 December 2006 (EST)

I should mention that what everyone thinks voodoo is, I assure you it's nothing like real life. Pin cushion dolls, all that stuff - was made up to satisfy movie-goers, tourists etc. Real voodoo is a more like what we would think of as shamanism (not WoW shamanism). -- Kirkburn (talk) 16:56, 30 December 2006 (EST)

Pin cushion doll is actually more of a new orleans hoodoo practice, than the original haitan voodoo, and existed before the movies made more out of them than the real religion does. Its a practice of symapthetic magic, that is you have to actually believe in that stuff for it to work.Baggins 17:10, 30 December 2006 (EST)

Better description than mine! /me claps excitedly :) -- Kirkburn (talk) 17:13, 30 December 2006 (EST)

So what about the title for the trolls? --Sul'jin 17:23, 30 December 2006 (EST)

We could leave it with voodoo, even though it doesn't come across in the game so much- but that is really how the trolls were thought up, how else do you explain the accents. And Kirkburn, no shamanism currently known to Anthropology parallels that of the WoW shamans.--Ragestorm, Head Bookkeeper 18:20, 30 December 2006 (EST)

How about "Masters of the Voodoo"? User:Montag/sig 03:49, 31 December 2006 (EST)

I like this one. :) --Sul'jin 07:52, 31 December 2006 (EST)

I think it's appropriate for the time being until something new can be found, because I don't like the idea of them being "masters" of Voodoo. You can't master Voodoo anymore than you can "master" the Light.--Zexx 15:20, 1 January 2007 (EST)

I would rather think of in-game Voodoo as a kind of magic, like Arcane. You can master the Arcane, so you can master the Voodoo, I suppose. And the Trolls are the only (?) race that practices Voodoo (and are the ones who created it in the first place), so they can be considered it's masters. --Sul'jin 07:05, 2 January 2007 (EST)

But this is like saying "Humans, Masters of the Light". It just feels weird, especially since troll Voodoo is dictated by the loa, who are gods.--Zexx 23:49, 3 January 2007 (EST)

Tribes article titles

I propose that we move all troll tribes articles to "XXX tribe" because in 2 cases they can be confused with Amani Empire and Gurubashi Empire.--Voidvector 14:56, 1 January 2007 (EST)