Talk:Sylvanas Windrunner

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Archived discussions: Talk:Sylvanas Windrunner/Archive1

Discussions on Sylvanas's model does not belong here as this is not a forum. Warning: attempts to continue these discussions may result in an angry warning from the Head Bookkeeper.--Ragestorm (talk · contr) 01:14, 23 May 2008 (UTC)

Will she ever become good again?

I think maybe when people kill the Lich King the first time she will become alive and thus good again and maybe Varithmas will take over the Forsaken -Gimodon

She is undead, just killing another undead or evil entity doesn't automatically make a corpse "alive".Baggins 22:54, 3 November 2007 (UTC)

Shes undead because of a curse he used on her. Either way I think she will redeem herself somehow! -Gimodon

Why would she need to redeem herself? From her point of view, she has done quite a bit. Established the forsaken, helped bring her bretheren(both living and dead) to the horde, and is planning her revenge on Arthas and the scourge. What exactly needs "redeeming?" --Blayaden 23:12, 3 November 2007 (UTC)

In The Frozen Throne, Sylvanas, after her fail at killing Arthas states that she will Never stop hunting him.

Reedeeming most likely means she is to kill him, slowly and painfuly, and that it is by her hands that she would have him fall.

And in The Reign Of Chaos, Arthas dosen't curse her, he simply raised her and enslaved her as a necromancer does. As a necromancer cannot do anyting without mana, Arthas lost power to reign over her and other minds with the leak in Lich Kings power.

However, if Sylvanas was to hear of magic tp bring undead back to life, I think she would go great lengths to be alive again.

--Zealous 19.52:12, 5 November 2007 (UTC)

Sylvanas is Good at Heart since she Battles the Legion and Arthas, Varimathras cannot take over since he is playing his own game, such as not killing Balnazzar who Enslaved the Scarlet Crusade and is Pounding the Forsaken 24/7. After Arthas is dead, she probably will become Neutral and only wish to command her Forsaken. But as for Varimathras soon he shall get an arrow plucked into his throat.

By that logic, Genghis Khan was a good guy too since he saved little kids from drowning. Sorry, but I don't think actions with good intent will redeem individuals of an evil mentality. You could be a depraved cannibal who tortures his victims before eating them to get a couple of laughs and save a basket of kittens that overthrow an evil dictator ( use your imaginations ), but the fact still remains that you're a depraved cannibal. --Super Bhaal 18:08, 22 February 2008 (UTC)

Since when was Lady Sylvanas "evil"? It's almost the same as most players choosing Alliance because they want to play as the "good guys". I agree with Blayaden. She's done so much for the Forsaken and the Horde. What more does she need to prove that she's already "good"? (Not to comfortable with the terms good or evil cos I personally believe both sides simply reflect a difference of opinion.)". --Bahmat

You need to consider that not only did she order several people to be possessed and robbed of their free will, she lied to Garithos and had him murdered when he'd fulfilled his purpose. Furthermore, she has ordered the production of a plague which will ravage and destroy all life on Azeroth. She might not be "evil", but she's anything BUT good, and never will be (I hope). --Solbur

After all the things Garithos did towards the blood elves (and other races besides human) he kinda deserves what he got. Another way of looking at it, is that he and his humans would have been a threat to the newly formed Forsaken, and that eliminating him would cripple an offensive against them. Also- in case you didn't read Garithos's profile, he was responsible for the exile of the blood elves, and had she let him live she would probably killed him later after knowing all the things she put her people through. (or perhaps she DID know...) Either way, he deserved what he got.--Blayaden (talk) 23:34, 27 June 2008 (UTC)

Bahmat carries an excellent point. As he opened, you really can't decide for yourself, without consideration before you judge who is made up of the "good guys" and who are the "bad guys". I mean, Sylvanas has a wider array of good deeds than Billy Mayz if you think about it. And Billy Mayz has come out with some pretty epic stuff. Sylvanas still has a pure heart the way I look at it, and she had nothing to do with Putress- so there isn't anything that Horde has against her, or Alliance besides the fact that most Paladins on Ally hate everything Undead. =/

But Sylvanas has definitely, in my eyes redeemed herself tenfold of the horrific acts she committed as a banshee under Arthas' control, which wasn't in the slightest bit her fault. If not Chaotic Neutral, Sylvanas is Chaotic Good for her work at putting an end to the Legion and the Scourge. I see no Evil in these acts. --Vaelkyrix

Too many pictures

This article is beginning to have too many pictures again. I already cleaned it up by putting others in the Gallery below. This doesn't mean to create new pictures or move pictures out of the gallery back into the main article. People should avoid creating a gauntlet of pictures with the text down the middle it screws up the page format and doesnt' work well on different sized monitors, widescrent or normal.Baggins 08:32, 13 November 2007 (UTC)

Artemis?

Is it just me or does she seem sort of based off of Artemis the goddess of the hunt. If you think about it she is the best archer in the world something a goddess of hunt would be exceptional at. They are both female. And I'm not sure why, but for some reason I think she doesn't ever want to have to be married as Artemis didn't.srry guys forgot four tides. Geeko 02:34, 18 February 2008 (UTC)

I really don't think so. She's an exceptional archer, and she's female. There are quite a few people like that, and they're not necessarily based off Artemis. And I imagine that if Sylvanas hadn't been turned undead, and things stayed peaceful, she may have gotten married. Ellethwen 06:27, 18 February 2008 (UTC)

As an undead, No. Had she not been turned undead.....eh no not really. Not her nor her sisters. Elune kind of resembles artemis, as does Tyrande. Not tick for tack of course but theres a lot of similarities and similar iconography. Theres really not any known characters with the artemis archetype but a few that are only a few points off. There are a few elven goddesses we know exist, but their personailities (and honestly anything other than their names) are unknown. Warthok Talk Contribs 06:42, 18 February 2008 (UTC)

Shandris maybe. Warthok Talk Contribs 06:43, 18 February 2008 (UTC)

How can that be?

Wowhead has a model of Sylvanas back when she was a High Elf. How can that be possible? For proof go to [1]   Mr.X8 Talk Contribs 18:48, 6 April 2008 (UTC)

Watch the Lament of the Highborne.--SWM2448 23:57, 6 April 2008 (UTC)

But that was a movie they made...Sylvanas has never appeared in-game like that... has she? Its an interesting find either way...--Blayaden 00:44, 7 April 2008 (UTC)

And she's a brunette on Wowhead, in the movie she's like a toehead.   Mr.X8 Talk Contribs 22:05, 7 April 2008 (UTC)

She looks blonde to me... and what the heck does "toehead" mean?--Blayaden 17:53, 15 April 2008 (UTC)

Toehead means blonde. Warthok Talk Contribs 18:05, 15 April 2008 (UTC)

Silvanas is NOT a queen

Discussion blanked as goodwill gesture. See [2] for archive. Kirkburn  talk  contr 04:23, 9 May 2008 (UTC)

A simple Question

I just have a short question: Who keeps deleting what i added? I added that she has 3000 hp, which is true. So why has it been deleted severall times? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Draco-25 (talk · contr).

Because thats not true. Also sign your posts with 4 ~. Leviathon (talk) 17:41, 19 May 2008 (UTC)

First of all: It is true. Believe it or not i know how to open a file. Second: I'm sorry i must have mist the part with the 4~ Draco-25 (talk) 18:11, 19 May 2008 (UTC)

Where's your source, cause wowhead says 1,100 and thats not true, you say 3,000 and another site has her at 500,000 hp. Sssssssssssssssssssssssss For Pony! ^{{TDon't hiss at me.•CIf you do things right, people won't be sure you've done anything at all.)} 19:54, 19 May 2008 (UTC)

3,000 in WC3 maybe... But we try to keep statistical crap like that out of the lore articles...Baggins (talk) 19:56, 19 May 2008 (UTC)

My source is simple: First of all im a expirienced programmer so i was interested and put my head into it. When i saw 3000 i didn't believe it. So I startet a private server, aktivated the option "Show exact hp", went in their and well she had 3000hp and my hunter killed her with about 5 shots.Draco-25 (talk) 21:41, 19 May 2008 (UTC)

Before this last post you just made you had the tiniest bit of credibility. 3000 in WC3 sounded believable, though it still didn't belong in the article. 3000 in WoW however? No she does not. Your source is flawed, not to meantion illegal but we wont get into that. She has far more than 3000 HP in WoW (The real WoW). You can kep saying "I know i'm right" you may actualy believe you are, but you're not.Warthok Talk Contribs 05:38, 20 May 2008 (UTC)

Ok ok guys calm down. I'm sorry I'll just stop editing from now on. Hope your happy. But before you kik me: If you think my things are unbelievable then how do the guys know how many People live in a certain area?Draco-25 (talk) 15:54, 20 May 2008 (UTC)

The RPG books list it out in black and white.16:47, 20 May 2008 (UTC)

Ok so sorry for all the trouble.Draco-25 (talk) 16:51, 20 May 2008 (UTC)

A minor edit I don't want reverted

I ADDED a title to Sylvannas (Pretty Ghost), since in the level The Dark Lady in TFT you have the option to posses an ogre war lord and after possesing it he says something of the lines "We serve the pretty ghost now". (Its no big deal BUT I AM TRYING TO GET MYSELF OUT OF THE WHOLE I DUG MY SELF) --The last Alterac (talk) 02:30, 30 May 2008 (UTC)

Why do you have to shout every time you talk? Sssssssssssssssssssssssss For Pony! ^{{TDon't hiss at me.•CIf you do things right, people won't be sure you've done anything at all.)} 02:38, 30 May 2008 (UTC)

Just dug yourself deeper...theres more i can say but i'm just gonna shake my head and walk away.Warthok Talk Contribs 02:51, 30 May 2008 (UTC)

The title section is for official titles, not descriptions by characters. Magni might be described as a red beared dwarf, that doesn't mean we put that under his title. Thrall might be called a greenskin that doesn't mean we put that under his title. Titles are usually "capitalized" "The Dark Lady" or "The Banshee Queen" as major examples. "pretty ghost" is like me calling someone an "annoying poster", or "brilliant poster" its a description it doesn't mean its a "title".Baggins (talk) 03:42, 30 May 2008 (UTC)

Why do I even bother trying to fill up the pit if the cement truck falls in then exploads creating an even bigger hole?--The last Alterac (talk) 10:20, 30 May 2008 (UTC)

Because the job market sucks now and if you quit that job filling holes you're in the poorhouse. --Super Bhaal (talk) 18:13, 30 May 2008 (UTC)

"official fanart" eh?

"That is a fan made. The one i just restored is official. DO NOT readd the fan-made M1330."

Eh, what are you smoking? Like gourra said how does one fan art become more official than another :p...Baggins (talk) 15:18, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

The WMV model is using blizzard's blood elven model, along with blizzard's dark ranger skin, along with the clothes sylvanas wears in game. It was once part of a section displaying the new model. The fanart is simply one of many fabricated images displaying what random people think Sylavnas should look like. Ones fan art, and the other is made by a fan but using nothing but official matierial.Warthok Talk Contribs 20:46, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

Yeah, neither of them are official at all. Personally, I like M1330's more than the other one, but I think if we get rid of one, we should get rid of he other. This is not a hosting service for fanart.--Ragestorm (talk · contr) 20:49, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

That sounds good to me.Warthok Talk Contribs 20:52, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

Brother Lirath?

A new revision mentions Lirath, her brother. Uncited, of course. I googled the name and came across a German Blizzard role play forums thread where one Astrya says: "Für Statistiker: Familie Windrunner ist kurzzeitig gewachsen: Lirath Windrunner, Allerias jüngster Bruder, hatte einen kurze Erwähnung. Da Knaak schon für die Invasion der Geißel 2 andere Brüder aufgeführt und auch gleich dahingemeuchelt hatte, müssen es mal 6 Geschwister gewesen sein. IMHO zuviel, um glaubwürdig zu sein *kopfkratz* " Who is this Lirath? Perhaps he should be removed from the list untill someone can come up with a proper citation or something to back up his existence. --Oponyxal (talk) 21:26, 18 July 2008 (UTC)

He is introduced in Beyond the Dark Portal.Warthok Talk Contribs 21:43, 18 July 2008 (UTC)

In such a case, please use a citation template, or create the article and put it on there. Kirkburn  talk  contr 21:47, 18 July 2008 (UTC)

First mention, Template:Cite. Not sure where his name turns up, but it does. --Ragestorm (talk · contr) 22:36, 18 July 2008 (UTC)

I found it. He was the youngest brother of the Windrunner family, who was killed by Orcs during the Second War. It was his death that inspired his sister Alleria to take up Orc-hunting as a hobby.

Age

I'm not sure if this has a correct answer, but how old is Sylvanas? Besides Cycle of Hatred and the Sunwell Trilogy, I haven't ready any of the other WoW books, nor do I play the card game. I was just wondering if it said anywhere else, without resorting to "a couple of centuries". Yuvorias (talk) 07:57, 15 September 2008 (UTC)

I don't believe her exact age is stated anywhere. -- Dark T Zeratul (talk) 08:04, 15 September 2008 (UTC)

Unless i'm mistaken i don't recall her age ever being meantioned, and i've read and reread every official published source. She's the middle sister of Alleria and Veressa. Alleria being described as a trained ranger when Turalyon's grandparents were babes (though how long she'd been one isn't meantioned), and Veressa having only become a ranger a little over a decade ago. We know little to nothing about how old one has to be to be a ranger except it seems when elves reach adulthood is implied. Most sources call adulthood about 110. Of course none of these things can be given definete numbers with any sense of insurance. Sylvanas is ranger general which implies she's definetly not fresh out of the academy. So i hate to say it but unless i missed something major "a couple of centuries" is probably about as accurate a guess as you are going to find.Warthok Talk Contribs 08:11, 15 September 2008 (UTC)

Yeah, I thought that might be the case. Oh well, thanks anyway. --Yuvorias (talk) 08:15, 15 September 2008 (UTC)

They never tell a Leader's age and a player never asks--Taurenchick484

Not true. The Warcraft III manual gave the ages of most of the heroes, but not her.--SWM2448 21:47, October 28, 2009 (UTC)

Sexuality

"I hope my sisters and I can grow up and get married together." (from coin from dalaran)...shes in to girlds 0-o Noobi666 (talk) 15:23, 22 September 2008 (UTC)

This is hopeless and useless. "Married together" does not mean married to each other. It means to be present in each other's weddings. Besides, I strongly doubt that Blizzard would implement incestuous relations. If I were you, Noobi, I'd remove the entire remark. It has no place here. --Oponyxal (talk) 19:42, 22 September 2008 (UTC)

another child left behind by the education system. married together most likely refers to tree couples getting married at the same time (its a tradition in some places). Your speculation is plain dumb and should be removed .TINAF (this is not a forum).--Beloren (talk) 22:09, 24 September 2008 (UTC)

Obvious troll was obvious. --Super Bhaal (talk) 22:39, 24 September 2008 (UTC)

Like Oponyxal said, and by the way, get some "back-up-stuff", before you take out your imaginaton. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by The Lore Nerd (talk · contr).

OK, continually flaming someone for a comment they made a month ago serves no purpose whatsoever. --Ragestorm (talk · contr) 22:46, 19 October 2008 (UTC)

Please be a Troll....--Taurenchick484

This discussion's a little less dead than Sylvie's girlie parts, but still dead nonetheless, buddy. --Super Bhaal (talk) 23:16, November 1, 2009 (UTC)

I think we should keep Sylvanas picture at WotLK Beta Build 8820

File:Sylvanas at Wrath of the Lich King Beta Build 8820.jpg

Well i just want to ask first if I can add this picture in the image gallery???Benitoperezgaldos (talk) 01:40, 25 September 2008 (UTC)

Beta images get replaced. They do not need to be documented. Sssssssssssssssssssssssss For Pony! ^{{TDon't hiss at me.•CIf you do things right, people won't be sure you've done anything at all.)} 01:50, 25 September 2008 (UTC)

I also think it should be added to the gallery, for the encyclopedic sake, to show that she looked like that once, but is not that important really --Beloren (talk) 04:02, 25 September 2008 (UTC)

As it was never an official release (just a PH in beta) i don't see the need for it to be added anymore than a picture of the Elekk placeholders on the mammoth page. On the same token i don't see any harm in one extra image in the gallery.Warthok Talk Contribs 04:35, 25 September 2008 (UTC)

Well, I don't think anybody cares if we add more to the gallery (that's what it's there for, to add otherwise cluttery pictures), but we really don't have a major need to document all placeholders, particularly when they're not official release. --Ragestorm (talk · contr) 13:52, 25 September 2008 (UTC)

Ok I am confused, then we shouldn't add this image because it's a placeholder of a beta version that wasn't even made official. Well at least we can conserve it here in this talk page? Benitoperezgaldos (talk) 17:45, 26 September 2008 (UTC)

on the other hand i noteced that the image of daval prestor appears in deathwing, and is a beta model too, i think we should add sylvanas V-2.0 to the gallery--Beloren (talk) 21:56, 30 September 2008 (UTC)

You DO realize there's something called "file history", right? See Image:Sylvanasnew.jpg and scroll down to the second earliest date. There's the exact same screenshot. Stop uploading duplicate screenshots. g0urra[T҂C] 22:06, 30 September 2008 (UTC)

You could always keep the picture in the talk page.Baggins (talk) 23:15, 30 September 2008 (UTC)

Inconsistencies with Characterization and Plot

I'm sorry, maybe I'm just being slow here, but it seems to me that Blizz is being very inconsistent with plot. We know she was involved in the creation of the new plague, but we have never been certain if she wanted to turn it against the living. What makes this unusual is that the uncertainty stems from the fact that it is flatly stated in some sources as intending to use it against the living, while more recently it seems Blizzard has been trying to shy away from from that. Then, in the Burning Crusade, her heart bleeds for the Blood Elves. Now, in the beta, she's not even the one who deploys the plague in the first, instead it was her majordomo and a seeming army of treacherous members of the Royal Apothecary society, which had been fanatically loyal to her according to the earlier sources. Then she comes off as possessing a deer-in-the-headlights sort of innocence as if she was unaware of the new plague's effect on the living. How does any of this this fit in with the lore? What should we put in the articles? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Lckyluke372 (talk · contr).

What changes need to be made? How are we going to fit this into the continuity of the article? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Lckyluke372 (talk · contr).

Could you list the sources? The RPG books operate with Brann Bronzebeard's views, and will probably in many cases be biased by that. Sylvanas was aware of the plague, but as far as I got it she only meant it for the Scourge. The RAS seemed fanatically loyal to her, but apparently that was only on the surface. It's also stated that she never trusted Varimathras 100% (isn't it?), so completely "deer-in-the-headlights" seems a bit unlikely. As far as I see it, Sylvanas' storyline is one of the better ones in the lore. I only hope, and will even when proven wrong, that she will be the one to finally destroy Arthas once and for all. With a lot of torture and all that jazz, of course. --Oponyxal (talk) 08:41, 16 October 2008 (UTC)

One of the reasons the RPG is from Brann's POV is so that Blizz can make alterations and say it was a bit of a POV thing. As for "deer in the headlights", I should point out that she convieniently made it to Orgrimmar- not Silvermoon, which was much closer, but the Horde capital on another continent- in good time, suggesting some sort of preprepared escape plan.

The plague itself has typically been pretty vague in terms of who it targets and how it deploys, so this new development isn't that surprising.--Ragestorm (talk · contr) 12:55, 16 October 2008 (UTC)

Sylvanas wants to destroy everyone, not just the Scourge. Rise of the Lich King confirms this and she openly kills children during her experiments. also the reason she's a "deer-in-the-headlights" is probably because she's LYING, which she has done a lot. Blue Ranger (talk) 22:27, 5 June 2009 (UTC)

Race/Creature

She is a Forsaken (Humanoid). The creature part does not seem to show up so I guess you have to write both Race type and Creature type in the Race section when you edit for some reason, unless I am missing something with this template. If you put "formerly" High elf then you will have to put "formerly", and then the race, of every Forsaken and Undead that exists in lore. Unless she turns back back into a High Elf, I think Forsaken fits as her "race" pretty well. Rolandius (talk - contr) 09:33, 18 October 2008 (UTC)

Forsaken is a faction. Undead is a condition. High elf is her race. -- Dark T Zeratul (talk) 09:45, 18 October 2008 (UTC)

Incorrect. Forsaken is a faction and a race. Undead is a creature type. High elf is a race type of which she is no longer. Rolandius (talk - contr) 09:51, 18 October 2008 (UTC)

Rolandius, before you start an edit war, I strongly recommend you consult the admins about this. This is a discussion we have had before. Forsaken is a faction, not a race. She is still a high elf, albeit an undead one. -- Dark T Zeratul (talk) 10:00, 18 October 2008 (UTC)

I thought it was agreed by everyone that Forsaken was a faction while forsaken was a race? Ok, I am not reverting your stuff on purpose and I will not edit this page any longer until someone sorts it out. I was just following WoWWiki which lists forsaken as a race unless I am missing something. If you just look at any page of a character who is found in those lands of the Forsaken the article lists their race as Forsaken and not Human or High Elf. This would mean we have to change every NPC from Forsaken to whatever their previous race status was and that will be about 100 pages maybe, I am not sure. Also, WoWHead lists her new model as a Humanoid unless they are wrong. Vereesa Windrunner would be an example of a High Elf not Sylvanas.Rolandius (talk - contr)

For the purposes of infobox information, "Undead" is listed as a condition. It can also be creature type, but that's mostly for game mechanics. Sylvanas's status should therefore be "undead", instead of "acitve." The "active" status is reserved for gods (or god-like beings), demigods, and powerful demons.

As for Race versus creature type, Race is lore, creature type is in-game. --Ragestorm (talk · contr) 20:23, 18 October 2008 (UTC)

Last I heard Sylvanas was in-game also. This would make her a Humanoid like most of her followers and her classification on WoWHead. Does this mean we have to change all the Forsaken (Humanoid) on WoWWiki to something else now? If her status is Undead then the Undead part in her race infobox is just redundant either way. As I said before, most of the forsaken are Undead high elves or Undead humans but we don't put that in their infobox. Sylvanas seems to be the only article on here not following procedure. Rolandius (talk - contr) 01:33, 19 October 2008 (UTC)

Last I checked, this was WoWWiki, not WoWHead. As for race versus lore, "Forsaken (Humanoid)" isn't her "race", it's the convention that has (apparently, as I've never seen a discussion on it) sprung up to deal with actual race versus some form or another of in-game classification. You'll note that most NPCs are classed this way, though it makes little sense to me.--Ragestorm (talk · contr) 04:35, 19 October 2008 (UTC)

I thought that was how people figured out, for example, if a satyr was a Demon or for some reason Blizzard made it a Humanoid, or Mechanical, etc. was by checking WoWHead. Unless you went looking for every single NPC in the game and clicked on them, but WoWHead seems faster and easier.

I didn't say her race was Forsaken (Humanoid). I said her race status was Forsaken and creature status was Humanoid as per template. In the infobox, it would read Forsaken (Humanoid). Just look at any NPC aligned with her and it says race=Forsaken and creature=Humanoid usually. In the infobox, it reads as Forsaken (Humanoid). Isn't that what the template is there for? Or is this a different template for Sylvanus? Now her sister Veressa would be a High elf (Humanoid). This infobox makes it seem like Veressa is just like Sylvanas but they aren't. If you put too much info like Undead/former High elf/Humanoid/Forsaken/Banshee/Ghost it gets a little convuleted. If we followed the other 98% of the NPCs on WoWWiki her status should say Forsaken (Humanoid). Her "Undead" info is already in the Status area of the infobox and the information that she was a former Night elf and Banshee would be in her main page. Whatever you think it should be like I will go with it, but I am just wondering why her page isn't following all the other NPC pages. Unless this template is different and does not show "Creature type" but instead shows "Race type" and "Former Race type"? If so, then you were right from the beginning and I just got mixed up between different templates.Rolandius (talk - contr) 04:59, 19 October 2008 (UTC)

She's got the same template, but it doesn't seem to be showing creature type as a separate field for some reason... Creature type is an in-game thing, while race is what her actual race is. All the main groups are relegated to humanoid, all dragon-related beings are relegated to Dragonkin. They should be separate fields, so "<race> (<creature>oid)" isn't the way I want to go. As for the undead high elf, it's a clarifier, there's no separate field for that.--Ragestorm (talk · contr) 05:08, 19 October 2008 (UTC)

I tried awhile ago to put Creature type but it wouldn't show up in the page and I don't know why since the other NPCs work. Okay, so we use clarifiers for NPCs that are found both in lore and in-game? I will have to remember that. Why do we have the "Status" part of the infobox though if we are already saying she is Undead in the "clarifier" part of the infobox? I thought the "Status" would be Active like The Lich King's article on WoWWiki. It says Status=Active. Like WoWHead, the Creature status for him is Undead and the Race is Human/Orc. If we use the Sylvanas page as an example, then The Lich King's page should say something like Scourge (former Human/Orc Undead) Status=Undead. It seems like his page makes more sense than Sylvanas' page though as an example for the template and her page should look like his does now. I am confused. Rolandius (talk - contr) 05:37, 19 October 2008 (UTC)

The clarifier is more due to her undead status- Anub'arak, for example could be listed as "undead Nerubian". "former high elf" could be a better way to put it, I suppose, if you want to avoid redundancy. Also Sylvanas, unlike most forsaken, used to be a high elf, while most of them were humans. The Lich King is a god or demigod-like entity, hence, he uses the "Active" status.--Ragestorm (talk · contr) 14:39, 19 October 2008 (UTC)

I thought I read somewhere in the RPG where it said many Forsaken are, besides former Humans, also former High elves due to the Scourge going through Quall'thalas and all those High elf lands and converting many of them into Undead. Rolandius (talk - contr) 04:40, 20 October 2008 (UTC)

• Just to adress the issue, Sylvanas was called the only leader to not be her race. But what about Velen? BobNamataki 23:38, November 5, 2009 (UTC)

Something notable maybe?

As of now, Sylvanas' new model is the only one in the game that shows her hair while wearing hood like that, think we should like make a note of that or not? I know it's stupid...but I notice the tiniest details sometimes--Saphiredragon89 (talk) 04:55, 20 October 2008 (UTC)

It's a custom part of her model itself, not a separate piece of equipment, so I'd say no, not really. -- Dark T Zeratul (talk) 07:29, 20 October 2008 (UTC)

Why can't we keep the picture?

File:Sylvanas model comparition.jpg

Well that, I have some reasons why to keep it:

• It is an official model.
• This was discussed on blizzcast.
  • It is an official picture taken from Blizzcast.
• Other articles have their beta models: Deathwing, Garona, Valeera Sanguinar.
• So that people who didn't knew about the beta model have the oportunity to see it.
• There are fanarts in the article, why an official picture has to be removed?

Now tell me why it should left out of the article. Benitoperezgaldos (talk) 04:05, 29 November 2008 (UTC)

For one thing, the original and current models are already in the article. If this is just you wanting the beta picture, I believe an individual one was already uploaded and should probably be placed in the gallery. We are not, as you seem to be impling attempting to supress any knowledge of beta models. As to it being on BlizzCast, it isn't our job to document or post everything official coming out of Blizzard. The article has more than enough pictures anyway. --Ragestorm (talk · contr) 04:27, 29 November 2008 (UTC)

I believe the old model pictures should be removed individually and this one placed as an "Evolution of Sylvanas"--Gurluas (talk) 22:21, 13 March 2009 (UTC)

What does she consider herself as?

I'm just wondering, if she died when Blood Elves were High Evles, does she still consider herself a High Elf, or a Blood Elf? ~~Battm7~~

She considers herself a Forsaken. --Ragestorm (talk · contr) 06:27, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

Did she gave the forsaken their name? BobNamataki (talk) 23:19, November 1, 2009 (UTC)

Yes, in TFT she declared herself, Varimathras and their loyal troops as the Forsaken. She says: "The capital city is ours, but we are no longer part of the Scourge. From here on out, we shall be known as the Forsaken." in A New Power in Lordaeron Benitoperezgaldos (talk) 01:27, November 2, 2009 (UTC)

Also, she was a High Elf but now considers herself a Forsaken. Even though the Blood Elves split, there are still High Elves. However due to her being the Ranger-General of Silvermoon, she would probably join the blood elves? BobNamataki 23:40, November 5, 2009 (UTC)

Speculation

I have heard the speculation on more than one occasion that Sylvanas was romantically involved with Nathanos at one point. At first I wrote it off, but the more I thought about it, the more sense it made. For one thing, they are both two almost inherently negative people who speak of each other in a very positive light. Furthermore, they seem to have an unswerving devotion to each other even in undeath. He even seems to worry about what she thinks about him in two separate quest texts. Now that I think about it, both of her sisters were romantically involved with human men at some point. Lckyluke372 (talk) 22:17, 11 December 2008 (UTC)

I've had the same suspicions for the same reasons, though i came to it from the opposite starting point. I noticed Alleria's and Veressa's hook ups and started to wonder about Sylvanas when the one and only human ranger-lord (later champion of the forsaken) popped into my head. Kinda a special privallage ;). After looking at the quest texts i suspect the same.Warthok Talk Contribs 01:45, 12 December 2008 (UTC)

Faith?

What is Sylvanas' attitude towards belief? Is she an advocate of the Cult of Forgotten Shadow or does she maintain a vestige of ranger druidism? May be worth mentioning in the article proper. Strength and Honour Horderoyale (talk) 07:38, 8 February 2009 (UTC)

She is, by all accounts, non religious. She is noted as not subscribing to the Cult herself, but not taking any stance against it.Tweak the Whacked (talk) 07:32, 11 March 2009 (UTC)

Heartbreaker

Is it me, or does the song "Heartbreaker" by Pat Benatar fit Sylvanas a lot? Lyrics here. Your love is like a tidal wave, spinning over my head Arthas' love for his army, and his creations Drownin me in your promises, better left unsaid Would she not have preferred to not hear the promises Arthas made- that they would win and kill all that she loved? Drownin me in your promises, better left unsaid I'm ignoring this line... The invincible winner, and you know that you were born to be Arthas: Too high on his horse, right?

A: This is not a forum B: No Horderoyale (talk) 02:06, 17 February 2009 (UTC)

Changed succession boxes a bit.

Hey, I just put down another succesion box here and one on Varimathras' page to show that he usurped her and she later retook the Undercity. Feel free to remove and/or edit. Toran Wildpaw of the Frenzyheart (talk) 22:10, 14 April 2009 (UTC)

What's her purpose?

I know she's the leader of the Forsaken and has helped free the minds of many undead. But in the bigger picture, won't she just become another villain? Her goal, other than killing the Lich King, is to do what he's attempting now. She's using the Horde's trust to further her goals, and leading up to the events of WotLK, convinced Thrall that the plague she was actually having her Royal Apothecary Society make was a 'cure' for their undeath. Unless having her eyes opened that she's still a fragile, little, naive, arrogant elf and had a change of heart from UC being taken by her most trusted companions and being proven weak... she'll just become the next Lich King, only less than half as powerful. What's gonna happen AFTER Wrath is done? Is she actually gonna try to make the Forsaken a cure? Or go back to trying to wipe out all life and dominate but just get slaughtered in the process? Thrall will continue making a place for the Orcs in the world of Azeroth. Cairne still has Magatha Grimtotem to worry about and leading his people. Vol'jin has yet to claim the Echo Isles back as the troll city. (Given that in-game, it's landmass would need to be increased to sustain one) --Mykael Mourningsun

I was about to post this here. I agree with you, Sylvanas is a potencial future enemy for the Horde, she IS, indeed, a really dangerous creature, and like you said, I also believe she will be the "next" Lich Queen.

The new Epilogue in the hardcover Ashbringer comic makes it pretty clear Sylvanas did not know a thing about the plague Putress was making. There really were just 2 factions within the Forsaken which were the ones actually loyal to Sylvanas and those loyal to Varimathras and the Burning Legion. We really do not know whether she actually wants to kill all life or if all the early quests even in vanilla WoW were actually just using her name for Varimthras' plan. Course a conversation like this doesn't really belong on a talk page. Leviathon (talk) 02:44, 3 June 2009 (UTC)

Yet in Rise of the Lich King, she personally oversees Faranell testing the plague on both a human and a Forsaken criminal (easier to obtain than actual Scourge), and thinks, "At last, Arthas, you will pay for what you have done. The humans who spawned such as you shall be slaughtered." -- Dark T Zeratul (talk) 03:21, 3 June 2009 (UTC)

Take the epilogue, and the Arthas novel, with a grain of salt each. Both seem contradict each other. Just be happy she's gracing Undercity with her presence.--TheUltimate (talk) 03:30, 3 June 2009 (UTC)

I don't think Sylvanas will be the next Lich King,but her goals are different from the Horde...Malygos Helper (talk) 10:44, 3 June 2009 (UTC)

What about this? Black Iron Golem. Pudim17 (talk - contr) 12:25, 3 June 2009 (UTC)

Take it to the forums, please.--Ragestorm (talk · contr) 13:26, 3 June 2009 (UTC)

Rise of the Lich King information

Ok, Rise of the lich king shows how dark Sylvanas is...she kills children, openly expresses her desire to kill everything alive, and shows her love for the devasting effect of the New Plague *which kills everything of coarse*. and she shows her affiliation with the Royal Apothecary Society by overseeing creation of the New Plague alongside them.

This information shows great detail into her character, motives and connection with the RAS and new plague and should be in this article. I would add it but I have no idea where to add it and I rather not move things around. So perheps someone with more experience and has read the novels would know what to do.

On a personal level, I just want to say I hope these Rise of the Lich King things can be put on because. I'm tired of people saying "Sylvanas is Good". Blue Ranger (talk) 22:50, 5 June 2009 (UTC)

I'm not entirely sure she wants to kill ALL the living. And remember, she did lament what would happen if it fell into the wrong hands, so she clearly recognized that there were more sinister possibilities. What happened at the Wrathgate, for instance, was probably not what she was intending. -- Dark T Zeratul (talk) 03:02, 6 June 2009 (UTC)

I just feel we should show more of the connection between Sylvanas, New Plague and the RAS *Or at least show what she does and thinks in the novel*.

Currently a person could read these articles and think 'Sylvanas had nothing to do with the New Plague really" but in reality she ordered it to be made and formed the RAS herself and even oversees experiments on races with them *which isn't in the articles from what I can tell*. And though she may not wanna use it on EVERYTHING, we should stress she wants to kill the Scourge and the Humans at least. Blue Ranger (talk) 06:10, 6 June 2009 (UTC)

All i'm going to say is proceed with caution (whoever does it, i'm going to pass). I think it's a loaded subject and very easy to get over passionate about and have the truth be presented n a less than neutral light. Just be sure that such information goes in her biography section. Keep it seperate from the Battle of the Undercity piece in the WoW section. Relation between the two at this point is still speculative, regardless of peoples personal opinions on the matter.Warthok Talk Contribs 09:14, 6 June 2009 (UTC)

Sylvanas isn't bad,nor she is good:she never knew what Putress did until the betrayal.And,remember,that she hates demons,so she will never fight at the same side of the Burning Legion,that entered in Undercity.It is right that she is making a new plague,but it doesn't proof that she wants to be such evil as the Lich King.Her goals are always said by her and by the Forsaken:She wants to have her veangance upon the Lich King,and,once it is done,give a place in the world to the Forsaken.That she likes to kill every creature is normal as she is now an undead.Malygos Helper (talk) 11:52, 6 June 2009 (UTC)

Nipping this in the bud. This isn't the place for this discussion, this is for discussing changes to the article. Take it to the forums.Warthok Talk Contribs 13:57, 6 June 2009 (UTC)

Warthok, with respect. this IS about changing and adding new information to the article. I'm just not sure where or how to add this properly from the novel. Perheps it should be added below Wrath of the Lich King but before Battles for Undercity. My point of this section is: Rise of the Lich King novel went into good detail into her character and story connection with the Forsaken and RAS. And should somehow be written into this article or at least have it's own section in the article. I KNOW I shouldn't write or add anything about Sylvanas, because I am a bit biased towards her. But someone else who can keep it neutrel can. Blue Ranger (talk) 17:36, 6 June 2009 (UTC)

Blue...that was in response to Malygos helper. Your post was about editing the article, that's great. Malygos was getting into the subject itself. That's why it was indented after his post. See WoWWiki:Talk_page_guidelines#Formatting Use : to indent your responses. I fixed yours accordingly.Warthok Talk Contribs 23:51, 6 June 2009 (UTC)

Character traits aside, there are some interesting discrepancies that the novel presents about her form. On pages 233-234, Arthas kills her and raises her much the same as in Warcraft III (No altar), and her body is loaded/flung onto a meat wagon (But not fired from it). Later, on pages 273-274, it is revealed Arthas locked her body in an iron coffin to torment her, and she did not get it back until right before the "Sylvanas' Farewell" interlude (How she gets it is not stated). Her body is oddly (The novel uses that word) said to have no wounds (and possibly little-to-no rot).--SWM2448 22:58, 12 June 2009 (UTC)

From what I remember (I've forgotten parts of the novel already?) that part was pretty ambiguous. Remember that she did "black out", and Golden might have deliberately excluded descriptions of where Sylvanas came back because she knows we like talking about stuff like that. --Super Bhaal (talk) 03:30, 13 June 2009 (UTC)

New Voice Actor?

It seems Sylvanas has even been given a new Voice actor or at had her lines re-recoreded. I stopped by her room and clicked on her, and I was surprised to find a diffrent voice then normal. Lego3400 (talk) 06:30, 6 August 2009 (UTC)

Is Sylvanas still voiced by Piera Coppola even after the Patch 3.2.0? TherasTaneel (talk) 11:57, 23 August 2009 (UTC)

I doubt it, since this voice actor was of a much lower quality.--WoWWiki-Odolwa (talk) 16:32, 23 August 2009 (UTC)

Its definately different, and I totally agree that the new voice actor has nothing on Piera Coppola. I also thought Varimathras sounded different. Did anyone else notice? Scarletsorcerer (talk) 16:41, 30 August 2009 (UTC)

Varimathras have sounded different ever since they've changed his model. But Anyway, so all agree it is not Piera Coppola any more, then who is it? TherasTaneel (talk) 18:57, 30 August 2009 (UTC)

Hallow's end

The Dark Lady minimum HP=2,8M? Her minimum HP is 730k, as Hallow's end uses her old model at the wickerman, she there also has old stats, i'm going to put this in the article if you don't mind (you're free to delete it)Malygos Helper (talk) 10:47, October 5, 2009 (UTC)

Battle for the Undercity quotes

Could an enterprising soul please add the things she says during the Battle for the Undercity to her quotes list? I'd do it myself but I'm unsure where to find them and after hearing them once can't remember them exactly. IMO she says some very cool stuff during her fights/conversations. Metalmunki (talk) 00:29, November 7, 2009 (UTC)

Why was my removal of something removed?

The reason I removed those 1 and a half paragraphs was because apon reading it, it seamed like a load of rubbish with the mention of "Uther's Ghost". I don't care if it was a quest chain or something, people should really take concideration on what they ad.--The last Alterac (talk) 02:06, December 31, 2009 (UTC)

So you're basically saying that you don't care if you removed official information because it sounds like bullshit to you? That's seriously not the right way to go about doing things. -- Dark T Zeratul (talk) 02:09, December 31, 2009 (UTC)

It didn't sound official at all, in fact; it sounded superficial.--The last Alterac (talk) 02:24, December 31, 2009 (UTC)

As the guy who wrote said "bullshit", I must ask where you've been the last two months. What was written was essentially what happened. Sylvanas encounters Uther's ghost. Uther warns her the Lich King's on his way, that he can only be destroyed at the Frozen Throne, so on and so forth. Basically a mirror of what he said to Jaina - it's the same event, the same general story (the Lich King is coming, you can't beat him here, you gotta kill him at the Frozen Throne), just a different listener.

And before you decide to insult me, as you have with others in the past, know this: I make sure to check my sources before writing such things. My source, in this case, is playing as a Horde character in the Halls of Reflection on several different occasions, both live and in the PTR. The information I added here was based on the actual dialogue between Uther and Sylvanas. Check Quest:Frostmourne (Horde) - as in most cases with in-game dialogue events linked to quests, a full transcript of the dialogue is there. I added this quest and dialogue, based on screenshots I took in the PTR, back in November, and (having reliably checked - with two different Horde characters) it has not changed since then.

Just because you can't be bothered to read it does not disprove it. --Joshmaul (talk) 03:15, December 31, 2009 (UTC)

Alterac wasn't that you who said he would never edit again and then asked to be banned? Yea that was good, you should have stuck with that. What are you trying to say with "I don't care if it was a quest chain or something, people should really take concideration on what they ad."??? What alternative universe are you living in that you think official information wouldn't or shouldn't be added?Warthok Talk Contribs 04:30, December 31, 2009 (UTC)

Okay, lets go ahead and end this conversation before it gets out of hand. Sssssssssssssssssssssssss For Pony! (^Sssss/_Slithered) 06:15, December 31, 2009 (UTC)

To be honest, it was Zeratuel's arguament that persuaded me the most. The rest of you guys were merely redundant. My only defence is; Suspencion of disbelief has failed me, but now for me to rant: How would you guys like it if I edited Muradin's article so it no longer says he died because we never heard "Our hero has fallen", huh huh? You would of all called me blinking mad.--The last Alterac (talk) 06:51, January 1, 2010 (UTC)

As for Warthok's comment: this is a wiki, and one of the things wikis must do is preform NPOV. Now this wiki is clearly biased in that only works liscensed by Blizzard are considered canon. --The last Alterac (talk) 06:57, January 1, 2010 (UTC)

I'd counter that, but i don't think anyone can make a better case against yourself than that last comment you just made did. Do you honestly not understand how fundamentaly wrong and misguided your thinking is, npov or not?Warthok Talk Contribs 07:00, January 1, 2010 (UTC)

That. Is. Enough. It's pretty obvious that we're keeping the passage, so if you two want to continue this, do it on usertalk. Or if you'd like to discuss WoWWiki's functions, the forums. The matter of changes to this article is closed.--Ragestorm (talk · contr) 14:05, January 1, 2010 (UTC)

I agree with Ragestorm, about the obviousability of the keeping of the paragraphs. And no I do understand how fundermently wrong and misguided my view is, and can't you take a joke, seriously? As that's what my comment of the NPOV is clearly is.--The last Alterac (talk) 12:00, January 2, 2010 (UTC)