Talk:Sargeras

Major Edits

This article needs huge and I mean huges amounts of work in light of new information... Can I say huge headache? We'll also have to pretty revise much of the Burning Legion history tooBaggins 17:38, 10 May 2006 (EDT)

our real problem is the new timeline contradiction: Everything but the new material assures us that Sargeras encountered the Eredar before he Fell. This might mean that Metzen's opted for a complete retcon of the Sargeras timeline. --Ragestorm 17:56, 10 May 2006 (EDT)

There's also the Nathrezim. It would be a fairly minor tweak to have the Nathrezim be responsible for Sargeras' corruption, and then he approached the Eredar. As it was before, the Eredar corrupted him and them he discovered the Nathrezim. Of course, this is just speculation. I have no idea what they have in mind. --Adonzo 18:49, 10 May 2006 (EDT)

You're right, but that descision rests with Metzen. For now, the Dreadlord will remain untouched! --Ragestorm 20:15, 10 May 2006 (EDT)

Best way is to say something neutral like "demonic" race for all previous eredar refrences however, that would be less of a speculation, and just refrencing the comments as we know them.Baggins 20:18, 10 May 2006 (EDT)

Logistically, not all Eredar follow any one path. Therefor, there could have been corrupted Eredar that corrupted Sargeras, and he merely did the same to the rest of the race. --Gigawolf1 18:00, 18 May 2006

The new WoW expansion, Burning Crusade, tell that the eredar race was pacific and good before Sargeras intervention.

Some personal thoughts on how things could fit

In the original story(let me begin a bit of a paraphrase directly from the manual) when he was good, he encountered two demonic races he was forced to fight against. Now originally this was Eredar and Nathrezim.

Now we know he couldn't have run into the Eredar.

So Let's say it was some other as of yet named demonic race. It was fighting against this certain race, that troubled him. He tried to trap this race in a vacuous corner of the twisting nether.

Then the Nathrezim show up to cause trouble. He fights them. But their darkness was too much for him so became insane, wanting to cause disorder to the universe to undo the titan's works.

In his madness he shattered the prisons he had made for the unamed race, and nethrezim setting the demons free. Thus the two races offer themselves before him to serve in any malicious way they could.

Let's pause for a minute to insert the new lore;

Next he heads to Argus to convince the Eredar a benevolent magical culture to join his cause. Those that accept are given more power and are warped into colossal beings. A faction of Eredar seeing what their brothers are becoming but don't want to to be corrupted, get help from Naaru and flee accross the galaxy.

So back to the paraphrase of the Warcraft 3 manual.

So out of the newly acquired and corrupted Eredar he chooses two champions to lead his demonic army of destruction. Kil'Jaeden and Archimonde. He sets Kil'Jaeden to seek out darkest races, and lure them to Sargeras's shadow.

He chooses Archimonde to lead his vast armies.

Kil'Jaeden's first move was to enslave the Dreadlords under his dark power. They became his Elite Guard and agents throughout the universe, and they took pleasure in finding primitive races for their master to corrupt and bring into the fold.

First among the dreadlords was Tichondrius and he agreed to promote the sargeras's burning will to all corners of the dark corners of the universe.

Archimonde empowered agents of his own, the mighty pitlords and their leader Mannoroth, he hoped to forge a fighting elite that would scour creation of all life.

Then the legion began its war across the worlds, blah blah blah...

If you took the time to read my paraphrase I think you'll see that that most of original intent of the story could be salvaged if blizzard made a few slight changes to what was said. The original race that Sargeras fought couldn't be the Eredar, but could be some unknown race we haven't heard about. The nethrezim could have still come second and been the ones that drove him mad.-Baggins 23:22, 10 May 2006 (EDT)

that's the best idea I've heard since this mess started. We'll need some sort of disclaimer (just an italic parenthesis, like this) to say that this is an accurate conjecture based on avaliable lore. --Ragestorm 06:40, 11 May 2006 (EDT)

Another possibility is this: That Sargeras did not fight all of the Eredar (compare with Night Elves, Orcs, and others who were only partially corrupted), but merely a lesser part who had been previously corrupted. Now, Sargeras would have been troubled by the fact that such wise beings would fall to corruption. The other possibility is that Sargeras literally purified them,a nd actually removed all taint from them. In return, this would have entered him. However, both of these beg the question, 'exactly what corrupted the Eredar the first time?' --Gigawolf1 19:03, 18 May 2006

A disturbing quote from Metzen

Not sure where to put it, but it deserves mention: "Who dares me to use Old Gods?" - Metzen, regarding possible new reason for Sargeras' corruption --Potbasher 03:11, 17 May 2006 (EDT)

How disturbed can you get? the only retcons that would require are A) confirming that the Pantheon only survived the Old Gods as a unified entity, and that the Old Gods are more than a match for a lone Titan, and B) something saying that the Old Gods are more of a cosmic even than simply the first lords of Azeroth. --Ragestorm 06:53, 17 May 2006 (EDT)

I think that comment was meant as a joke, seen as how the Old Gods are responsible for practically everything bad that's ever happened on Azeroth, with the exception of Burning Legion things. Pinning Sargeras' corruption, and as such the Burning Legion, on the Old Gods would make people's brains explode and he would be murdered within a week. --Adonzo 01:34, 18 May 2006 (EDT)

I think so too, actually, but just thought it should be mentioned somewhere. Because, well, we never know :) --Potbasher 02:14, 18 May 2006 (EDT)

If to goes on the page, I insist upon clear disclaimers- I can picture him roaring with laughter after typing that. Though I do like the fact that he admitted he just forgot about the old timeline. --Ragestorm 06:57, 18 May 2006 (EDT)

Maybe he meant that first he was bothered by the nathrezim race, and then, while fighting the old gods he finally lost his faith in his mission...maybe, like they did to the high elves in tirisfal, the old gods whispered to sargeras and made him mad, since his resolution was made weaker by the encounter with the nathrezim, maybe they wanted him to help them to destroy all