Talk:Sargeras

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Previous discussions: Talk:Sargeras/Archive1

What no Brox?!

Not a single note about his fight with Brox? I'm still making my way through The Demon Soul, but I saw this on his page and was surprised not seeing a note about it on this page! -Rovdyr 16:57, 7 February 2008 (UTC)

Well, it wasn't much of a personal fight, but it would be sensible to include some mention of that event. Kirkburn  talk  contr 20:47, 21 February 2008 (UTC)

In Sargeras's point of view, it probably wasn't that important, but as a significant event it should be mentioned. --Ragestorm (talk · contr) 00:30, 22 February 2008 (UTC)

Not important? If I remember the story correctly, Brox wounding Sargeras' leg was vital, as it allowed Krasus to cast a spell distracting him long enough for the portal to be closed. That wouldn't bother Sargeras? --Ose^{Talkz / Contribz} 20:01, 30 April 2008 (UTC)

I think this is a unique event, not many mortal has been accounted for wounding Sargeras(Demon Soul can't even affect him by the way).--Malygos (talk) 11:06, 22 July 2008 (UTC)

The wound itself probably wouldn't bother him much - to him it was only a scratch. He would be more angry with Krasus, who caused him to lose his concentration.  Jormungand01  (talk - contr) 18:39, 11 November 2008 (UTC)

Background Legends

I'm confused here- I only just saw the second version. What's the relation between the two? Is it a retcon? --Amro 11:17, 29 February 2008 (UTC)

Later on the article says it was a retcon- I guess the first section should be clarified to show that. --Amro 12:04, 29 February 2008 (UTC)

Well, actually both versions appear as legends within the "in-universe" lore. The "retcon" is only a retcon from our point of view, I.E, the official 'what actually happened' telling. From an in-universe point of view they are just various interpretations by different authors/historians. Its not much different tha how in our own world you could read multiple variations of greek mythology, or five or more variations of the King Arthur legend.Baggins 19:55, 30 April 2008 (UTC)

Powers

I'd like to object to the removal of my additions to the powers section. What I added was offical information from shadows & light. I didn't put citations there as, well, none of the other information in that section is cited.Tweak the Whacked 03:37, 1 May 2008 (UTC)

Additions are fine as long citations are made. That is citations should always be made.Also I didn't get a chance to look at your additions, but unless you didn't, try to paraphrase the content so that game mechanics aren't portrayed. I.E. Give lore intent, but not specifics of RPG game play. Sandwichman can give you some examples of S&L paraphrases if you need it.Baggins 02:14, 5 May 2008 (UTC)

Creating demons?

WHAT? Unless I'm very much behind the retcons, the conflicting stories are about eredar, not demons in general. Is there a citation for how he never encountered demons in the new lore? --Ragestorm (talk · contr) 12:59, 14 June 2008 (UTC)

Sargares ever be Confrunted again ?

I was wondering will Saragaras be a Raid boss or just interaction with him, if i remember The Tomb of Sargaras contained wats left of his power" The Eye" which Ilidan stole from the Tombs, but is he decesed or still alive ? DarckArchon

As far as I know, his spirit is still living in some dimension somewhere, but is fractured. Missing a piece, and so far unable to return. The avatar of Sargeras, fought by Medihv's mother, was a small part of his spirit. He might just really be dead, but that would a critical down-point of the Warcraft story. When the Burning Legion came to Azeroth, they hit a snag. Mannoroth was slain, Archimonde detonated, Tichondrious is dead, and Sargeras had a gigantic portal imploded on him. But if he was really gone, without coming back, then that might cut short the threat of the Burning Crusade, as only Kil'Jaeden is left. I am pretty certain that Sargeras will never be a raid boss. He could crush the entirety of his legion with very little risk to himself. In fact, the biggest threat to him if he did that would be getting tired. So unless we someday get to a level cap of 600, It isn't going to happen. Interaction with him is also unlikely. --Mesethusela (talk) 03:46, 17 January 2009 (UTC)

Re: Sargeras ever be Confrunted again ?

Sargeras isn't 'alive' or 'dead'. He simply 'is'. You can't kill a god.

And besides, to seriously take on Sargeras, Blizzard would have to increase the raid member cap to over 1000, and raise the level so that one player can solo Kil'Jaeden in the Sunwell.

So, it's extremely unlikely that Sargeras will be killable in-game.

Kirkyboy (talk) 18:46, 4 November 2008 (UTC)

He's not technically a god, because he's not worshipped by anyone. He should really be called a demigod, or even just a titan. And we've already seen that both can be killed. In the event of a raid encounter it seems likely that he will be somehow weakened prior to being attacked.  Jormungand01  (talk - contr) 18:37, 11 November 2008 (UTC)

Reply to Kirkboy

Marluxious, The Rogue, Replies...

You don't neccessarily need to be worshipped to be considered a god. If you'll read the page on the Titans, it states that Titans aren't necessarily "gods" but forgers of worlds and part of a high order known as The Pantheon. Sargeras is almost like Arthas. He was slowly manipulated by evil until he completed embraced the idea of it.

Sargeras was the ultimate warrior and was corrupted by the very evils he fought. He plunged into madness and realised that the intentions of The Pantheon and the Titans themselves was corrupt and that holding order in the physical universe was a wrongful ideal.

Although he is "killed", it is true that he never necessarily dies. He is in "limbo" and waiting to find a being powerful to contain his spirit. No such being exists as of yet but soon he/she/it may soon come and he will take the first chance he has at taking control of said being. None of the articles in WoW Wiki actually explain how to even kill a titan.

So...The question is...Will it be possible?—The preceding unsigned comment was added by Marluxious (talk · contr).

If a fight is made up with Sargeras as the raid boss, it would be an epic battle for survival, requiring help from the titans on many levels (including them giving you armor that weakens Sargeras' attacks by 99% for each piece of armor). I already made up such a fight, see User:Sheffi/Sargeras. --Sheffi (talk) 02:30, April 2, 2010 (UTC)

Morgoth

Sargeras seems to be extremely similar to Morgoth from LotR. Both are supreme dark lords, with innumerable legions at their command. They are both one of the creators but fell into evil early on. And they have both been banished from the world but have left a servant to carry on their dark legacy. Furthermore in just about every battle the forces of good gave been pushed almost to the brink of defeat yet somehow prevail, although that may be just to make the story more exciting. Thoughts anyone?  Jormungand01  (talk - contr) 18:37, 11 November 2008 (UTC)

I've read about Morgoth, a.k.a. Melkor, so my thought is yes, they are similar. Good observation.--Mesethusela (talk) 03:51, 17 January 2009 (UTC)

I was thinking the same thing! It gets really ridiculously similar when you consider that they were both twin brothers with the second most powerful of the gods who was a storm god and their moral opposite---Zul'Aman and Manwe are very similar in their role in the cosmic hierarchy. Martin 05:29, 19 April 2009 (UTC)mdwall

Posible End Game (End of WoW) Boss?

Yeah i know its a bit silly and he is a Titan/God but is there a way too defeat him like Kil'Jaden, still he was defeated in the Battle of Ancients, and gul'dan wanted too steel his eye, aswell as Ilidan but the possibility too be Reincarnated too repet history ? Well this came in mind from the poll with "Which boss do you want too defeat" and many voted for Sargeras. (Entaro Adun)—The preceding unsigned comment was added by DarckArchon (talk · contr).

In the War of the Ancients no-one, unless you count Broxigar, actually fought him. It was his Burning Legion that did all the harm. Gul'dan had no intention of stealing the eye while it was still on Sargeras. At that time his avatar had been dead for centuries, having been cast down by Aegwynn. And when fighting her Sargeras deliberately lost so he could corrupt Medivh. So that doesn't count as a defeat. And Illidan wanted to destroy the Lich King, not Sargeras. It was Sargeras' servant he took his orders from.  Jormungand01  (talk - contr) 16:36, 12 November 2008 (UTC)

Personally, I doubt he would ever be in the game. He is just too strong. Sure Blizzard could somehow find a way to put him in, and although it would be pretty cool, for certain people like myself would understand that even a 40 man group of the most geared lvl 80s wouldn't be able to take down a Pantheon Titan. He was also the Warrior and Champion (tank and can take a ton of damage) of the Pantheon. There are very few beings or groups of beings that could take on Sargeras, for example another Pantheon member or the Old Gods combined (maybe). Like I said, would be cool, but the last end game boss(es) I could imagine would be the current Lich King or Azshara. Hope this helped. jclipps (talk) 01:55, 16 November 2008 (UTC)

Re: Possible End Game Boss

Marluxious, former patron of Stormreaver (Now Chromaggus), speaking here.

I highly doubt and agree with you. It IS possible that Blizzard may add Sargeras as the final boss ever in World of Warcraft. But you have to see that Blizzard wants to make money. The chances of them actually ending the series right then and there is not likely at all. Sure, at some point the story DOES have to end because WoW is becoming repeatative and it's somewhat the same crap over and over. Like I said before, there should be an ending at some point but defeating Sargeras in a group of 10 or more won't be an easy task.

It will require strict strategies and will require epic proportions. Also you'll probably need the leetest weapons in the game to beat him.—The preceding unsigned comment was added by Marluxious (talk · contr).

If there will ever be an of WoW, it will be a confrontation against Sargeras. But players actually have no chance of winning that encounter, so Sargeras will literally step in and consume the world of Azeroth, thus marking the end of World of Warcraft.

Otherwise, it'll simply be the most foolish thing that Blizz ever done in this game to add him as a defeatable raid boss to the game. I will see the world burn before seeing that. Neltharion (talk) 17:55, 26 December 2008 (UTC)

Don't forget, the Naaru are gathering an army of light intent on destroying the Burning Legion. That could be the ending of WoW, when the slow gathering finally completes, and players get to fight in a cosmic battle against unlimited hordes of demons alongside celestials and Naaru and things of that nature. But as stated, Blizzard is still going to be a company made for making money, so some new threat will have to come. The Old Gods must do something too. --Mesethusela (talk) 03:58, 17 January 2009 (UTC)

Or it is possible that the next expansion or so will be the Naaru's gathering of light having to fight the Burning Legion, and the character gets to join in with the Naaru. There could be a cinematic or something where the Naaru and some Titans defeat Sargeras and banish him from the universe for 10,000,000 years. Or it could even be a raid where you have to aid the Naaru and Titans against Sargeras, but most of the damage will be done my the Titans and the Naaru. Does that sound reasonable?

yay, other people agree with me that Sargeras will be an epic end-of-WoW raid boss. I made up a fight, visible at User:Sheffi/Sargeras. Any tips would be appreciated.

Oh and it's not mentioned, but i made up that there would be a quest chain, involving going to a bunch of other wings in the same dungeon as Sargeras' encounter, and all the wings are actually the titan's armory, forge, etc. that the burning legion is invading. Then after you defeat the legion in the wing, the titans trapped there will award you with armor specially crafted to aid in killing Sargeras. Each piece of armor will reduce damage taken from Sargeras' attacks by 99%, stacking for each piece of gear.--Sheffi (talk) 02:38, April 2, 2010 (UTC)

"Sargeras is still out there."

J. Allen Brack gives us definite proof that the Big Bad is still up to something. Xavius, the Satyr Lord 21:29, 31 January 2009 (UTC)

I think that was fairly obvious already. He's never been killed, unless you count Aegwynn's encounter with his avatar, and it's extremely unlikely that he would suddenly decide to turn good again. So he must still be at large somewhere, plotting his next attempted revenge on Azeroth. User:Jormungand01/sig 21:41, 31 January 2009 (UTC)

I know it was obvious, but I think this is the first official statement. Correct me if I'm wrong. Xavius, the Satyr Lord 22:07, 31 January 2009 (UTC)

Mage

I added Mage to his classes since he casts mage armor and shield on himself when in battle. Is that right or wrong? Rolandius (talk - contr) 13:57, 1 February 2009 (UTC)

Depends. Are the other classes listed there specifically mentioned as his classes in the RPG, or are they speculatory based on his skills. If the former, then don't add assumptions. If the latter, then remove the section entirely, as speculation is no longer allowed in the infoboxes. --Ragestorm (talk · contr) 15:36, 1 February 2009 (UTC)

The info about the spells is under the Skills and abilities section and it comes from S&L so I guess it would be RPG. Rolandius (talk - contr) 03:28, 2 February 2009 (UTC)

Do, not make assumptions based on "spell types" we don't allow it for wow NPCS, we don't allow it for rpg either. Casting Mage armor doesn't automatically make something a mage. When it comes to RPG classes we only list the ones specifically mentioned on the class section of the character's page, or in direct lore references through the books. I.E if something says level 15 Warrior its a good sign, if Brann says someone's a wizard its a good sign. But don't do it by skills.Baggins (talk) 06:17, 2 February 2009 (UTC)

Okay just by skills is a no go. I just thought I saw on a talk page awhile ago someone saying a certain spell made the character that class and someone agreed with them, but I can't remember if they put it in the article too. Rolandius (talk - contr) 07:20, 2 February 2009 (UTC)

Why the Pantheon doesn't act against Sargeras ?

I don't get it why the Pantheon doesn't act against Sargeras when he gone insane and decides to destroy everything that exists

HiTmAn47 (talk) 22:41, 7 February 2009 (UTC)

Maybe because he is the strongest of of all titans? Pudim17 (talk - contr) 15:33, 9 February 2009 (UTC)

Initially, they didn't know, and by the time they found out, the Legion had grown too powerful for them to take immediate action. They have probably been fighting a war of attrition against him since; this is one of the theorized origins of the Naaru. --Ragestorm (talk · contr) 15:45, 9 February 2009 (UTC)

Um...

shouldnt there be (for the faction, i mean) a burning legion option? i mean an icon for burning legion would make more sense than a neutral icon.
\ WoW Fan Story Writer (talk) 23:15, 12 February 2009 (UTC)

Well that's because there is NO Burning Legion icon just as there is no Scourge icon nor an Illidan's forces icon. Benitoperezgaldos (talk) 01:05, 13 February 2009 (UTC)

The faction icons are for gameplay purposes, i.e. with respect to the Horde and Alliance. "Neutral" simply means that they're not affiliated with either group. -- Dark T Zeratul (talk) 01:06, 13 February 2009 (UTC)

No Scourge icon? *Ahem* Xavius, the Satyr Lord 13:42, 19 February 2009 (UTC)

Don't the Illidari count as Illidan's forces? If then the illidari do have a crest.

Not really.Baggins (talk) 03:09, 13 March 2009 (UTC)

I just checked. The Illidari are only part of illidan's forces, so i guess they don't really count for that. Talk Contribs 21:46, 24 March 2009 (UTC)

Contradictions in Sargeras' Storyline

Hello,

I'm surprised that nobody already pointed it out, but, on the other hand, I guess nobody here actually did read the manuals of WarCraft III (where Sargeras' Story is told), but the story told there clearly contradicts with the story told here (in the wiki and drawn from various sources; I never did read any of them, except of the summary of the wiki):

• In the WarCraft III manual are 2 evil races mentioned, the nathrezim _and_ the eredar,
• It is somehow mentioned that in the end Sargeras somehow got stuck while the Well of Eternity was closing and so practically got killed,

I think there were some more contradictions, but I cannot remember for sure now, but I am 1oo % sure about the 1st one and relatively sure about the 2nd one, for the rest I have to look up the next time I get a paper / pdf Manual at hand (I googled about 15 Minutes for one in vain). I think further investigation will help. Just wanted to say it ^^, Hó-òh, Diskussion, 09:25, 19 August 2009 (UTC)

Well that's not something unseen or new...

All wowwiki knows that the Eredar/Draenei storyline has been twisted.

For Sargeras nearly dead, I'd like to know yuor source.

Loremaster A'noob, Arch Druid of the Noobhoof Clan (^talk/_contribz) 09:32, 19 August 2009 (UTC)

The contradictions arising from the Reign of Chaos manual have been retconned- the newer lore is intended to be correct... I have NEVER heard the theory that Sargeras was somehow killed or rendered impotent during the Sundering- if anything, that sound like wishful flavor lore on the Kaldorei's part. --Ragestorm (talk · contr) 12:53, 19 August 2009 (UTC)

As said written, I did not had a WC4:RoC manual at hand as I wrote my post, and as far as I could remember it was somehow suggested that Sargeras somehow got killed during the Sundering, but it also may be false, for it was long ago I read the WC3:RoC manual. And for the other point, since the storyline for the eredar had been retconned, I would suggest to mention it somewhere here in the articles (I read some of them, but not all, if I overlooked anything, my apologies). --Hó-òh, Diskussion, 01:28, 20 August 2009 (UTC)

See Sargeras#Character_development and Eredar#Other_accounts; they could be improved, I suppose, but they're there.--Ragestorm (talk · contr) 18:48, 20 August 2009 (UTC)

Nearly as strong as a portal closing

do i really need to say that the wording of this sentence is really weird? is this a quote from a book, or is there a better way to write this AKA "He was able to keep a portal open after it was supposed to close, a feat no other mortal has been able to repilcate" User:Corhen/Sig 06:21, December 2, 2009 (UTC)

Creation of the Legion

Since the Nathrezim in particular corrupted him, does that mean that technically they are responsible for the creation of the Burning Legion? And also it says in the article that none of the demon's were cunning or powerful enough, again the Nathrezim? Specifically Tichondrius, of course I mention him. TichondriusLives (talk) 16:47, December 6, 2009 (UTC)

Put that way, yes they did. Sort of. However, it was likely the stress of the non-organized demons undoing everything the titans built. Metzen one asked who dared him to use the Old Gods for what corrupted Sargeras.--SWM2448 19:14, December 6, 2009 (UTC)

Somewhere it was mentioned that Tichondrius was the chief infiltration officer of the legion, this is confusing because he wasn't mentioned until WC3 RoC and he was indirectly responsible for the death of Cenuarius cunning enough? TichondriusLives (talk) 14:52, December 23, 2009 (UTC)

Not sure what you mean- the Legion as a whole wasn't even mentioned until the same source. --Ragestorm (talk · contr) 16:16, December 23, 2009 (UTC)

I mean like the young legion before the eredar, why wouldn't he have commanders? TichondriusLives (talk) 14:20, December 25, 2009 (UTC)

He probably did. There really isn't a whole lot of detailed information on the early history of the Legion. It kind of just goes from "Sargeras decided to create it" to "...and then all these guys were part of it." -- Dark T Zeratul (talk) 21:48, December 25, 2009 (UTC)

Is it possible that Nathrezim and his kind were like the fire giants of Muspelheim, and Nathrezim being the cunning infiltrator he is (?) succeeded in corrupting Sargeras.

However, that backfires because the corrupted Sargeras still has something of a vanir mindset and is immensely powerful, so her forges the fire giants, sorry, dreadlords, will they nil they into a more organized force while at the same time establishing himself as the lord of them - thus creating the burning legion.

Surtur connection?

Given the connection to norse mythology and the aesir and vanir, and given Sargeras current fiery look, isn't it likely that there is a connection/homage to the lord of Muspelheim, the fire giant Surtur? They seem to share many traits, not the least being Surtur going on a kind of burning crusade against the aesir and vanir at Ragnarök.—The preceding unsigned comment was added by Suntiger745 (talk · contr).