Pandaren section size

Is it me or is the pandaren section just getting waaaay too big? Can we trim it or else boil down some of the multitude of points into a few simpler ones? Edit: I've cut off a bit of the useless stuff, but I think it may need a bit more. ---- Battlegroup RoundIconVorbis AvailablequesticonTalk ActivequesticonContribs


I think that a plausable race could be the yetis, only because in WoW, we don't realy know whats in the mountins, exept for whats realy IN the mountins (Gnomes and Dwarves) the alliance could use a near-primative race, while the Horde could use the Goblins (an inteligent race) although the goblins are a nutral-for-life race, they could always have an undead revolution (i used the undead for a guidline of corse, they had a revolution from the Liche-king) and make a Horde race Back to the yetis, they are a verry close race to the Dwarves because they live so close, as the test went, we could have them start in a new place accesable from a lift that has the load time like the boats (to load the mountin world) and the capital and cities could be all in one cave, a vast and Huge cave, and after level 10 (exeptinal for slower or quicker players) then from there they can follow the Dwarves throug quests with the ocational cave made by the new yeti tribes to boost your yeti rep. the yeti mount could be the bear, choosing your color ect. won't be hard(white might be thr famous one) on the other hand, not even i can come up with the cause to suddenly have yetis on the aliance, possably the killing of the leader-at-the-time by the horde, starts a revenge against the horde which the aliance takes control of, there are always ideas you know! thank you for your time, any mistakes, please correct, Zalden out!


Good idea but you should move it to the bottom of the pagae. Zarnks 05:37, 27 July 2007 (UTC)

Except for one of the easter eggs in Warcraft III, as far as I know yetis, wendigos, abominal what have yous, these creatures haven't been presented as a sentient race. They have been presented as animals. Beasts more than a humanoids as far as personality and mental capabilities, incapable of verbal communication. Think giant ape essentially.Baggins 05:49, 27 July 2007 (UTC)
yes, although there might be a blood rage against say the horde, death of leader, ect. that caused them to actualy comunicate with the alliance and learn, it is plausable.

Personaly, i think they could be a good addition to the aliance to become warriors and they could always stick to old religions and use them for, say, druidism, or Shaman, even priestly ways, theres 4 right there, what else? Zalden


I can't see why Nagas have numerous technical problems, just some new lore and its fixed. I have this idea and I post it on The Great Sea Expansion Ideas 's talk page. Should I post again? I don't want to violate any rules. Anyways, you will have to read the whole 'Great Sea Expansion Ideas' page to understand what I'm saying.--Blooddealer 05:34, 15 May 2007 (EDT)

Technical problems has nothing to do with lore. It has to do with the fact that naga have tails, crests, and spikes all over, which can be a bit of a toothgrinder for programmers and designers when it comes to equippable gear, mounts, running speeds, animations, etc etc. --User:Varghedin/Sig 06:14, 15 May 2007 (EDT)
A problem I see is that the sexes are far to segregated. All males are melee and all females are casters makes for some poor character costumization. I mean yeah the Night Elves were segregated, but not near as segregated. Still, that could be fixed. Meneldir
Shrug. In EverQuest (as directly inspired by Salvatore's drow) the dark elf females were supposed to be the priestesses, and the males were supposed to be the mages and warriors. And yet, each gender had the same options of class available to them at creation. I don't think Blizzard will let something like that hinder them either. --User:Varghedin/Sig 11:46, 30 May 2007 (UTC)
That difference was based on culture, similar to the Night Elves (which we have lore to back up how that was broken down). The differences in the Naga are not just cultural but based on physiology, as I seem to recall it being stated that their mutation severely affected the males intelligence. There have been a select few males who have risen up to leadership, but that has always been millitary. Meneldir
plus most nagas are with the illidari, and blizard would have a hard time gettin leg armor and boots on them.--Airiph 14:31, 16 June 2007 (UTC)

according to the naga lore, they are loyal to azshara not illidan, as i see it, azshara is the one helping illidan for the legions future, they can get a part of the naga that are against the legion to join either alliance or horde to go against azshara. mostly horde as their past with the the night elfe wont let them go together easly, but might be accepted by the blood elf, well i didnt read any of the books, so not sure if there is any info i dont know, and if any of what i wrote is wrong plz correct me,after all isnt the naga a mutated high born? --lucifersama 06:20, 30 June 2007 (UTC)
Yes, indeed, they are mutated highborne. And all of them helped Azshara summon the legion into Azeroth during the war of the ancients. I believe, as many highborne rebelled and escaped the palace, that many of the highborne that stayed were either hestitating, or they feared that Azshara would punish them if they attempted to escape. Of course, many of them were still fanatically loyal to her, but I believe not all who stayed were still fully loyal to her. This might give some chances for a rebel faction of naga, concisting of those who did not escape because they were not sure what would happen. They would definitely join the horde, mainly because the horde has sympathy for many races that the alliance don't normally accept, plus that the alliance shows no signs of forgiveness to races that has hurt them in the past. Therefore, they show much more signs of acceptfulness in the horde than in the alliance. 'Sides, I believe the females are enough attractive to give even more horde/alliance ratio balancing. From what I've seen, they are the most beautiful females of the non-playable races in-game. Although, it would give even more gender differences than the draenei. --Kulsprutejojjo 15:56, 25 July 2007 (UTC)

Can other people add things

I was wondering, since they're tons of races in WoW if other people could add race ideas they have. I mean since theyre rumors, could I say what I think could be some possible races? (Mr.X8 01:03, 27 May 2007 (UTC))

I'm not sure what you mean here. I'll verify the rules for you: only add something if it is a race currently found in the lore which has few real limitations regarding playability, with at least a small probability of appearing and at least one strong reason why it should be linked to one or both of the factions, so no fabrications (eg. your own brand of elves) and no silly races (eg. kobolds, mountain giants, Scourge etc.). In any case, I think you should put your thoughts on races on this talk page before you do anything mm'kay? ---- Battlegroup RoundIconVorbis AvailablequesticonTalk ActivequesticonContribs

What I am trying to say (sorry if it was too confusing) is could I put, lets say High Elf or Dreadlord on there and say what classes they could be. I'm not an administrator, Book Keeeper, Blizz Employee, etc. I was just wondering if I could put what I think might possibly be races? (Mr.X8 20:41, 27 May 2007 (UTC))

You don't need to be any of those to edit - it's an open wiki. Nevertheless, we already have nathrezim up there and high elves (as you can see in the bold text) are extremely unlikely to ever appear as a playable race. In any case, classes don't come into it: they're not reasons why a race will join a faction. ---- Battlegroup RoundIconVorbis AvailablequesticonTalk ActivequesticonContribs

Okay, I wont add anything. (Mr.X8 13:44, 28 May 2007 (UTC))


The point for them joining the horde seems speculative and not fact, hell, it veen starts with the words "may have been". Regarding the fact that they have "little inclination or preferance", the only friendly Arakkoa npc's are in Shattrath, and the only npc's that favor a faction are the battleground masters, all others have accepted both factions as allies against the burning legion, if the legion wasn't their that attitude may change somewhat, but for now the fact they don't display a preferance for one of the faction doesn't hold any weight, at all. Hordesupporter 15:45, 28 May 2007 (UTC)

What's your point? First you say it's the point for the Horde that's speculative, then you say the fact that they don't have an inclination towards or for either faction doesn't hold any weight. You're contradicting yourself. --User:Varghedin/Sig 22:42, 28 May 2007 (UTC)

The hell you talking bout? I pointed out the flaw about the join the horde point, then i pointed out the flaw in the they don't favor wither faction point. Hordesupporter 03:13, 29 May 2007 (UTC)

Right. So you're saying that since the Horde argument is vague, it appears that they favor Alliance? I'm not trying to attack you, just to understand what you mean. Yes, everyone in Shattrath is neutral, but that doesn't really refute the argument. There's no arakkoa bouncing around yelling "For the Horde" or "For the Alliance", so that's all we know. --User:Varghedin/Sig 14:39, 29 May 2007 (UTC)

I'm saying that the join the horde point is flawed, it's entirely speculative, the only thing that supports it is the fact that both Orcs and Arakkoa both existed in outland. As for the fact that they don't "favor" either faction, I was pointing out that the refugees, some of which may have been part of the Alliance Expedition, show no ill will toward the orcs, since they share a common enemy in the legion, everyone in Shttrath is putting their diffrences aside, for the quesiton you asked, no, i'm not saying that because the Horde argument is vauge that they should be in the Alliance. Hordesupporter 16:02, 29 May 2007 (UTC)

As a side note if you follow the Arrakoa storyline in Shadowmoon Valley you learn that the orcs commited genocide on the arrakoa, much in the same way they did with the draenei, as well as trying to change many of them to his will. In a last ditch attempt to save themselves the arrakoa tried to summon, an ancient and powerful evil, a summon that continued to modern times. Certainly something that might influence the overall feelings of the arrakoa, to distrust against the Horde, in much the same way as it did for draenei.Baggins 16:08, 29 May 2007 (UTC)

It would seem that the Arakkoa in Shattrath regret that they did that, the Arakkoa in Shattrath seem to be devout followers of the light. Which could be a join the alliance point. Hordesupporter 19:59, 29 May 2007 (UTC)

illidari as a new faction?

Anybody think they should have a third playable faction instead of having every race split in two?Ithink illidari should be a playable faction.If you think so what races should join?I think naga,broken,and Arakkoa --Airiph 23:50, 3 June 2007 (UTC)

Given that the Illidari are loyal to Illidan, and given that we are tasked with slaying Illidan, this seems as though it would be incredibly unlikely. Also, the Illidari do not count any Arakkoa among their numbers. - Dark T Zeratul 23:59, 3 June 2007 (UTC)
DTZ?! -Flyspeck 00:00, 4 June 2007 (UTC)

DTZ... DTZ... have I seen that name somewhere before...? Hordesupporter 04:10, 4 June 2007 (UTC)

Hell if I know. Flyspeck certainly has good reason to recognize me, though. :) But enough off-topicness; this is about new races. - Dark T Zeratul 07:08, 4 June 2007 (UTC)
Any faction that is hostile to many other factions as Illidari are, is unlikely, because that would make almost all neutral quests unavailable for them, forcing Blizzard to rethink lots of neutral quest hubs (read: most of Outland) or implement tons of faction-exclusive quests that would be, in turn, unavailable for everyone else. --Rowaasr13 07:34, 4 June 2007 (UTC)
Also, Blizzard has already stated that they will not add a third faction to the playable races. While it's a cool idea, its corresponding technical issues are insurmountable. Think about the battlegrounds - how they are entirely built around 2 factions. Think about all the towns across Azeroth, Kalimdor and Outland, the way they are spread out to allow quest area enough space, a roughly even amount of flight paths, etc etc. The duality premise permeates the game. It just won't work to add another faction onto that. --User:Varghedin/Sig 22:42, 8 June 2007 (UTC)

Centaurs in the Horde

Didn't one of the rpg books mention there are a few good centaurs in the Horde. Zarnks 02:19, 6 June 2007 (UTC)

Which books? I'll check.--K ) (talk) 10:05, 6 June 2007 (UTC)

No book says there are "good centaur in the horde". Instead it says that maybe in the future a few centaur tribes might join the horde. On the similar side its said that a few centaur tribes might join the alliance.Baggins 03:29, 28 June 2007 (UTC)

A little word of warning the one or two tribes joining the "horde" bit is mentioned that some may join the "alliance" as well. Its actually a reference to the in-game quests that both factions can take in order to side with either Gelkis or Magrim in World of Warcraft MMO. In either case, Gelkis and/or Magrim are just as willing to side with Alliance as they are with the Horde. Its not any greener for either one, but simply light green, as both factions have the same equal level of siding with those very same centaur clans.Baggins 03:09, 29 June 2007 (UTC)

No I was talking about this quote "Rumors speak of one or two tribes of centaurs, that have given up their evil natures in hopes of joining the Horde." Zarnks 03:11, 29 June 2007 (UTC)

As I mentioned its a reference to the in-game centaur faction quests, which both factions are allowed to take. Its the same quest line that Alliance can take on as well from their village in Desolance. The book actually makes reference to the tribes possibly joining Alliance as well. So while its "green" its not "bold green".Baggins 03:16, 29 June 2007 (UTC)
As side note its also said in the book that most Tauren still do not trust the centaur, have not forgiven them, and that they are "enemies of the Horde", and that centaur hate tauren, and that tauren return the racial animosity with ferver. The tauren consider centaurs to be a thorn in their side.[1] (25, 209 #?). Apparently, most Tauren still hold a grudge towards centaur.Baggins 03:26, 29 June 2007 (UTC)

I don't agree Baggs. It specifies the Horde,A great deal of the Gelkis and Magram have not given up their evil natures. The player chooses to ally with them rather then the other way around. These tribes are described as approaching the Horde to join.

The Tauren are described in those quotes as hating their centaurs agressions and evil. Who know what the Tauren would think of non-evil centaur. They certainly have shown themselves to be the most forgiving playable race in the entire game. The Horde is known for having a much more forgiving nature then the Alliance Zarnks 03:28, 2 July 2007 (UTC)

Full of Neutrality

I hope this is the right way to post this. Anyways, here goes! I know there are a lot of people (myself included) that would love to see the Pandarens a playable race, and being strictly horde myself, would even like to see them wind up on the horde side. There is also a lot of information that would suggest it is entirely possible for them to make it into the game, but both horde and alliance have points against why the pandarens would join them. This got me thinking about future patches and possible races and one thought in particular jumped out in my mind: what if the pandarens were introduced in a future expansion as a playable race for BOTH factions? Granted because of PvP related interactions it would be confusing if they looked the same, but it could easily be made that there are visual differences between the two, not unlike blood elves and night elves for example. I'm sure if they lived among, say, the undead for long enough they would start to adopt habits that would reflect in their appearence, possibly becoming a little thinner, longer claws, red coat tinge, etc. as opposed to living with the humans that may, say, lead to a rounder fuzzier teddy-bear-esque look. Possibly slightly different racials (or even mirrored racials) would help make them even more seperate. Granted it is just a dream but not only would everyone be happy to be able to play them, but it would eliminate any issues with 'join this side or that' arguments for blizzard to solve and it would break the (I'm assuming) pattern of introducing one new race for each faction with expansions. Furthermore if the biggest issue with the Pandarens (From what I've gathered) is that they are so darned apathetic about the war between the factions, why wouldn't they be allowed, or feel free to join the side they choose, so long as they keep their own way of life intact? I'm interested to see what your thoughts are. --Ndoki 05:16, 7 June 2007 (UTC)

To be honest I'd rather they showed up in the game as a neutral faction that both races could gain rep for.Baggins 05:17, 7 June 2007 (UTC)
Ndoki, whilst your argument is logical it does not consider the reason why Blizzard puts races into the game. The objective of putting a popular race into the game is to attract more customers; but putting the race into BOTH factions is simply a lot of work for little gain. It would be a far better strategy for Blizzard to put in another interesting race and more game content as it will attract more people, thus maximising profit. I'm sorry buddy, but capitalism is all about profit. ---- Battlegroup RoundIconVorbis AvailablequesticonTalk ActivequesticonContribs
I completely understand it's all about the bottom line, and I may be wrong but aren't Pandarens one of the more popular races in the game? I know most of my friends and myself included all look forward to seeing them in the game ever since we saw pictures of them. If that is the case wouldn't it be in Blizzard's best interest to use the most popular race in the game to appeal to all audiences instead of just those that play alliance or both sides? I know if they came out with an expansion that featured Pandarens just for the alliance and say, centaurs for horde or something like that I, and most likely my friends who play strictly horde, would find it difficult to consider buying the expansion for getting the short end of the proverbial stick, and assuming there are more out there like us, wouldn't that be worse for Blizzard's profits? I guess if it really was an issue, not having two races to bring in twice as many people (as if Pandarens aren't enough) they could always introduce two dual-races (for lack of a better term) since I'm sure it would be a lot easier to program two different variations of the same race rather than two completely different ones, but then that would esentially mean both factions would get 'two' new races which may be a little much for one expansion. --Ndoki 15:43, 7 June 2007 (UTC)
1 faction with physical diffs and some lore diff wont attract much ppl, and as having 2 diff factions, some alliance would like to try being that faction as a horde and vice versa, people trying more, exp more, and spending more is what blizz wants after all ^^, and to be honest, 2 factions that had something to do with the general wow lore one joining alliance for some interest and another the horde for DIFF interest is much better, as pandarens are generally nuetral, its hard to make them go by BOTH alliance and horde and having 1 capital, the ones joining the alliance or horde would be mostly cast out, and would be hard to get them a starting point that makes any sense, even though i would like to see pandarens as a playable race, i think they would be much much better as something similar to cenarion exp helping all against the legion to protect the world and stay nuetral, but as they will get out more and help others, it wont be hard to fit a new class for both alliance and horde without getting a messed up lore to fit a new class in ^^ --lucifersama 06:40, 30 June 2007 (UTC)
I know this is pretty dead and nobody will see it but I just wanted to add on that last point. With the coming of WotLK Deathknights have been added as a class (race) to both factions, and share a starting zone. Go figure. :p --Ndoki (talk) 23:29, 11 August 2008 (UTC)

What about broken and faceless?

I think, it´s quite probable, that the broken will be an expansion race. They have already landed on Azeroth - there are some small groups around the Dark Portal. So, they could have their capital on a future island somewhere east of Blasted Lands. Their architecture is also very different comparing to the draenei. You can see it in The Frozen Throne. They have quite good chance to be a race of the Alliance - because of their relatives, the draenei. However, because there are some signs of racial hatred, they might be also a part of Horde - excluding orcs, they didn't have any wars with other races. The next race I would like to mention are the faceless, which could be a part of a Northrend expansion, or an Underground expansion including the Old Gods. It seems, that the faceless have strong conections to the Old Gods, so that might be a problem... BUT, there are some indirect evidences of relation between the Old Gods and the Forsaken, e.g. there is no Forsaken at the Gates of Ahn'Qiraj and C'Thun is an Old God.—The preceding unsigned comment was added by Naze (talkcontr).

Well, the Broken are maybe too close to Draenei, and they seem to be too friendly with the Alliance Draenei to form their own faction.
Right, their classes would be very different and they're almost a separate race, but still they lack 'something'.--K ) (talk) 20:01, 7 June 2007 (UTC)
Broken... no. We already have too many varieties of elf. ---- Battlegroup RoundIconVorbis AvailablequesticonTalk ActivequesticonContribs

I said broken not wretched - broken are a dergee of "deformated" draenei -> draenei-broken-lost ones

No, that's not what I meant. I was inferring that we already have two types of elf (three if you count trolls ((Edit: I know all the technical details of the trolls, Varghedin - the point I was trying to make is that they are all of the same bloodline))); we don't need another draenei race too. ---- Battlegroup RoundIconVorbis AvailablequesticonTalk ActivequesticonContribs

Trolls aren't elves. Trolls were never elves. If anything, it's the other way around. But I agree that Broken are too tied up with the draenei. Besides, wouldn't you want something a little different for an Alliance race than just another form of draenei? I also think the Faceless Ones are very unlikely as a playable race. --User:Varghedin/Sig 22:47, 8 June 2007 (UTC)

i cant see why pandaren cant be a playable race? why not them --Toadem 10:31, 13 June 2007 (UTC)

well, get some abused and turtured broken, slaved and kept alive as labor, and we will get some broken that would hate the alliance and join the horde as they still want to get back at both the legion and alliance, it woould be something similar to NE and BE which would simply be annoying to be honest, prefer to have some other races to have some veriaty. it is kinda impossible to take aside every single race related to elves in a way or another, NE BL high elves, trolls naga, we just got a lot, even the half-elves, its not like we got some mutated humans (other than the undead), and the diff races of dwarves wont be the solution, the faceless is a bit confusing race, we simply need to have more information to decide if we like them or not :P, they worship the old gods or where slaves? are they really connected to them or is there some other gods or things they worshipped? as i said above, the pandaren is just tooooooo nuetral to join any. --lucifersama 06:49, 30 June 2007 (UTC)
Technicly, i would like a race besides the elvs that looked just right to be Rogues, i mean, the broken do look like a dreanei, but i want a bigger looking rogue.
look at the Yetis i think, PERFECT race for the aliance, we need a bigger race, like the Tauren, While the Horde needs the Goblins *Zalden*


Do you realy think blizard should make any type of demon a playable race for horde or aliance?I meen they are already with the burning legion so there are hated be the other races.what do you think? --Airiph 14:40, 16 June 2007 (UTC)

There's already several demon candidates in the article. --User:Varghedin/Sig 20:37, 16 June 2007 (UTC)
Its interesting to note that not all "demons" have demon sub-type in TBC, some have been given "humanoid" subtype. It was hinted in the rpg, that all demons once were "mortal races" before they were mutated into their current forms. Much as the backstory behind man'ari eredar.Baggins 20:38, 16 June 2007 (UTC)
Were not Dreadlords were always demons?--SWM2448 20:40, 16 June 2007 (UTC)
I've thought a lot about this too, especially in regards to fel orcs. I mean, Gurtogg Bloodboil is arguably so close to becoming a demon as to make no matter. He appears to be corrupted to a fourth degree, if you count 0) Mag'har, 1) Orc 2) Fel orc (red orc model), 3) Fel orc (spikey model), 4) Gurtogg. Helboars are demonic boars, satyr are demonic night elves, voidwalkers are demonic elemental/ethereal creatures, imps appear to be demonic sprites, eredar are demonic draenei, and even infernals appear to be corrupted elemental creatures. I've thought about the definition of demon, and to me it just appears to be a race of creature that has been corrupted by fel energy to a specific extent, making it no longer qualify as belonging to its original race. --User:Varghedin/Sig 21:05, 16 June 2007 (UTC)
"Were not Dreadlords were always demons"

We only know that they were demons when the Titans encountered them. But nothing says they were "always" demons.

Infernals and presumably abyssals are demonic "constructs". Essentially demonic golems.Baggins 21:23, 16 June 2007 (UTC)

well in the future race idea main page it has demens and some seem likely i just dont think demens fit normal azeroth factions --Airiph 22:43, 16 June 2007 (UTC)

I doubt Dreadlords were always demon. All the other demons were something once even the eredar why woud the Dreadlords be an exception? Most of the badguys in Warcraft actually start out as a average or decent people with some fatal flaw that drives them to evil . Zarnks 02:51, 17 June 2007 (UTC)

well i was just wandering if they should realy make demans be part of horde or alliance because i dont think so

and i wonder howburning legion started there musthave bean a begineng race or 2 --Airiph 22:04, 17 June 2007 (UTC)

is it impossible to say some of the demons who where tortured tell they became demons, treated or cleansed by druids or shamans or priests tell they got between being demons and their original forms? that way we might get a faction that really hates the legion, was not 100% loyal to them, not completly demons, and might add to the lore. a bit too much i know, but brainwashing

^^--lucifersama 06:59, 30 June 2007 (UTC)

the Nathrezim have a bad point that they can fly but doesnt one of them in w3 say "if I have wings why do i always walk" so they could just have wings on their model but not be able to fly

DeathKnightApoc 09:15, 24 July 2007

Reward races

One idea,I've thought of, was having a rare drop that lets the player create a race. For instance finding a rare amulet that drops off Kael'thas that lets you play as a high elf. That way people could play the rare races without having them flood the servers. Zarnks 22:01, 16 June 2007 (UTC)

thats not a bad idea but the charecter u get it off of has too be strongly related too that race like killing queen azshara should give you naga --Airiph 22:45, 16 June 2007 (UTC)

Heres my idea for High elves. Once you get exhaulted with the The Silvermoon Remnants. There will then be a chance that Kael will drop a amulet belonging to Aleria. Afterwards you turn in the amulet to Arator allowing the player to create high elf characters. High elves would start in Elywn Forest.

  • Their models would be the same as blood elves except with blue eyes.
  • They would have the same class options as blood elves but slightly different racial traits.
  • They would share Thalassian with the blood elves giving the high elves unique abililty to converse with the enemy faction.

Zarnks 18:37, 26 June 2007 (UTC)

"award races" seem highly unlikly, furthermore Blizzard will never allow players to outright converse with the other faction. Hordesupporter 19:01, 26 June 2007 (UTC)

Its not as if reward races will be be common. Even at exhaulted it would be hard to find the rare drop from Kael'thas. Even if it isn't likely its still cool.

Other reward race ideas

  • Gnoll-by far the easiest race to earn. All you have to do is pay gnoll mercenaries a ton of gold. Available to both Factions
  • Half-orc-Based more on Garona then Drann to differiante them from orcs. Available to both factions but the drop is more common on horde.
  • Half-Elf-Available to both factions but the drop is more common on Alliance.
  • Forsaken elf-Available only to Horde
  • Forsaken Gnome-Available only to Horde. Involves a rare drop that the player turns into Ganoosh
  • Forest troll-Quest started by a rare drop that leads to the player finding Zul'jin. Uses the buff troll models. available only to Horde. Has an italian mobster accent like in WC2.
  • Wildhammer dwarves-Available only to Alliance

Zarnks 21:28, 26 June 2007 (UTC)

Hmm, very nice idea! Well, ok, seems a bit unlikely, because of the inequality it would create between players, and roleplayers would be so mad at Blizzard that they'd have to extend it to everyone.
There are also some mistakes in your suggestions: forsaken gnomes are far too few to become playable, forsaken elves don't seem to be different from forsaken human (and creating a model for them would be silly), and half-elves can't side with the Horde.--K ) (talk) 21:44, 26 June 2007 (UTC)

Maybe I did put down too many reward races. If only two were able to be chosen I would choose Forest trolls.and high elves. As for Half-elves,hasn't anyone thought of half-elves loyal to the blood elven cause. Half elves who decided to remain loyal to their family who became blood elves. Zarnks 21:54, 26 June 2007 (UTC)

Why not from a very dificult quest for that race?

  • Gnolls-horde
  • High elves/Half elves-alliance
  • Half orc-horde

Dark Trolls-alliance

  • forest troll-horde
  • Wildhammer Dwarves-alliance
  • Ogre-Horde
  • Furbolg-alliance
  • Half ogre-horde
  • Dryad/Keeper of the grove-alliance
  • pandaren-alliance

Airiph 23:20, 26 June 2007 (UTC)

its imposible to happen and even more, but nice ideas and it doesnt hurt to have some kinda dream even if it will not come true, can i have a tortured blood elfe as a pet for my night elf? --lucifersama 06:57, 30 June 2007 (UTC)


theres more than just undead humans right? so do u think they should have a wider variaty for forsaken like undead dwarves and gnome trolls or even pandaren or naga. pretty much anyrace beside demanic or druidic races. what do you think? --Airiph 00:03, 17 June 2007 (UTC)

True "F/forsaken" are only from humans, high elves, and some half-elves.Baggins 00:25, 17 June 2007 (UTC)

so do u think they should get new for forsaken?(gosh blizard has too look at this site and its talk...they have soo much too do)--Airiph 00:48, 17 June 2007 (UTC)
What do you want? Playable banshees, abominations, and dark rangers?Baggins 01:03, 17 June 2007 (UTC)

Yeah... that wouldn't work. Hordesupporter 01:10, 17 June 2007 (UTC)

well just at least a wider variaty for undead cause human isnt the only race that dies --Airiph 22:39, 17 June 2007 (UTC)

But they are the most common race that becomes undead. Hordesupporter 14:44, 18 June 2007 (UTC)

...and other races that have become undead have become undead by other means, than most Forsaken, through necromancy and the like, and thus bound to a stronger will of the Scourge. A will that they can't easily break as humans and banshees were able to.Baggins 15:00, 18 June 2007 (UTC)
new forsaken? that would be the same race and everything but diff appearance and stuff in the make new char nothing else, they will not be any diff so doesnt really make any sense, no offense. just imagine them to be dwarves streched tell they are as tall as humans :P --lucifersama 07:03, 30 June 2007 (UTC)

Nerubian Image

Shouldn't that image be of a regular nerubian, and not a crypt lord? If they ever get playable... it will be the basic nerubians after all. Hordesupporter 14:56, 18 June 2007 (UTC)

That is a good point. I don't think there is any artwork regarding living nerubians, but we could use the Warcraft 3 representation.---- Battlegroup RoundIconVorbis AvailablequesticonTalk ActivequesticonContribs

The live ones, they wore armor and robes with hoods... Why would the lich king not let them keep their clothes? It would make them more resiliant.--SWM2448 19:39, 18 June 2007 (UTC)

While i'm not going to take the time to scan it up, there was artwork of living nerubians in Manual of Monsters & Lands of Mystery. Though you might be able to find the MoM artwork Sons of the Storms as Metzen drew it.Baggins 19:55, 18 June 2007 (UTC)

I almost died of internal hemmorhageing with all the anime pics that come up if you google the word 'Nerubian'... is this it?--SWM2448 20:06, 18 June 2007 (UTC)

Too late!? ALL THAT FOR NOTHING? I hate people somtimes.--SWM2448 20:07, 18 June 2007 (UTC)

Well... that image is a represenation of a Nerubian. Hordesupporter 19:39, 19 June 2007 (UTC)


I know there are people who wish they could have their forest trolls, or wildhammer dwarves, their dark dark iron dwarves, or their high elves, their leper gnomes. Why not have a page devoted to the "unlikely" races? That people can give their reasoning why the think it should be made a playable race despite what Blizzard has said. Perhaps, Future race ideas/unlikelyBaggins 14:56, 21 June 2007 (UTC)

Absolutely NO WAY. We've managed to get rid of the idea of likeliness on this page months ago because it was not only stupid but polemical.--K ) (talk) 15:24, 21 June 2007 (UTC)
There's a difference between unlikely and not-going-to-happen. We've already got all 'unlikely' races on the list. ---- Battlegroup RoundIconVorbis AvailablequesticonTalk ActivequesticonContribs
Not going to happen=not races=Scourge, Burning Legion.
Not going to happen=wrong-sized races=Mountain Giants, amoebas.
Period. You're welcome.--K ) (talk) 00:03, 15 July 2007 (UTC)

Pandaren Independents

The main reason why most nomadic pandaren are independent and neither horde nor alliance is so they can have friends on both sides. Chen Stormstout is a friend of both Horde and Alliance, including Rexxar and Jaina Proudmoore. They have a honor code, that includes a life debt style culture. That is if they become friends with someone they are friends for life, and will protect and honor that friend until they die. They do not switch sides, once the friendship begins. By remaining independent they can be friends with anyone, and can choose not to get involved, if it means breaking their "life debt" to one friend to help another. They have no quelms against "honoring" their hosts if it against a force they are not friends with.[2] (A&HC 74,75)Baggins 16:07, 21 June 2007 (UTC)

Additionally the reason that many chose to aid the Bael Modan dwarves is not only because they became friends, but because they are race that honors their ancestors as well, thus they help dwarves search for artifacts when they can to help the dwarves honor their ancestors. Add to the fact that pandaren are a race that reacts rather than to attack first, they would been in just as much of position to react to the tauren's sabotaging and hassling of their friends the dwarves, and join in the reciprocation on the nearby villages to honor their "friendship" debt.Baggins 16:12, 21 June 2007 (UTC)

Great. Blizzard's having a hack at the Wookiees now too. ---- Battlegroup RoundIconVorbis AvailablequesticonTalk ActivequesticonContribs

Being shamanistic it is likely they would understand the tauren's anger at the dwarves. Shamans don't take kindly too people destroying ancestral lands with explosives and ripping apart the earth with machines. That is an affront to shamans, and the dwarves refused to stop,rejecting acts of diplomacy. What else were the tauren supposed to do?

The most likely answer for who the pandaren would side with is "both". They are a very diverse race and some would choose to side with the tauren while others the dwarves. Zarnks 07:04, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

Remember these were the same pandarens that helped the dwarves "dig"(they know very well how dwarves dig and even joined in to help them). Apparently didn't seem to mind that the dwarves were using explosives. Contrary to what you might belief not all pandarens are "shamans". That's mostly the realm of the pandaren "geomancers". Brewmasters are actually the least "shamanistic" of the bunch, and are exempt from the strictures of their society regarding the ability to create and destroy, they are too busy listening to the "spirits" swilring about their heads to care what their peers think[3] (MoM 80). By the way removal of cited published facts is frowned upon. If you speculate that there could be exceptions to the written facts add it to its own ? mark section below the section but don't go about deleting cited facts.Baggins 07:28, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

I'm sorry to have to bring this up, but the pandaren would also know of the initial attacks by the tauren, the sabotaging and the hassling as well. Again, its a life debt once they choose to be friends they either don't get involved if it means crossing their friends, or stick with their friends to the end. Other pandarens that were never friends with the dwarves in the first place might side with tauren after hearing the tauren's side of the story. But those who are already friends would no break their friendship oath. If youare going to speculate don't break the rules of lore to do so.Baggins 08:25, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

If your going to delete my edits. Give a valid reasons. Zarnks 08:25, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

What I'm trying to say, is the article only references what blizzard has officially written down on opinions of the pandarens, and give those citations (your free to find a copy of those books and look them up for yourselves). You can't try to white wash their opinions nor speculate that they might have some other viewpoint contrary to what blizzard has stated they have and call it "clearly factual". It doesn't work that way.Baggins 08:35, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

Point out what parts of my edits you dislike. Lets try to work out a compromise. Zarnks 08:36, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

Stop removing citations, paraphrases and quotations and add yoru info to the bottom of the article, then I will edit to fit the cited lore, rather than being purely speculatory. Otherwise this is getting old really fast... I will take it up with other admins, before I do anything else to you.Baggins 08:42, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

What quotes have I been removing? The entire section on who the pandaren would side with in Bael modan is completly speculative. The Horde has certainly not been known to hold a grudge. Doesn't the lordaron humans in the horde speak for itself? Chen stormstout did kill Kul'tiras soldiers defending Durotar don't remove that either. Zarnks 08:47, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

The Horde has not been known to hold a grudge? Is this why there's no such thing as the Alliance? ;) Kirkburn talk contr 09:00, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

Actually I paraphrased and/or quoted what was said in the A&HC. It is not speculation.Baggins 08:52, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

I have added in your section modifed it to fit blizzard's published lore. If you choose to alter it again and make it non-neutral I will have no other action but to give you a few days suspension to cool off. I will not warn you again.Baggins 08:55, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

Okay the page is absolutely perfect now. Nice to know thats done with. Zarnks 08:57, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

Sorry I gave you ample warning you did it again... Enjoy your week off...Baggins 08:57, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

I don't know why I have to keep repeating this, but if a section is contested, don't try readding it until reasonable consensus is formed on the talk page. It is better to have stable articles than one's constantly in flux. Kirkburn talk contr 09:03, 22 June 2007 (UTC)
To be frank, I don't think playing silly buggers with people in charge has ever worked... ---- Battlegroup RoundIconVorbis AvailablequesticonTalk ActivequesticonContribs

The Horde has never held a grudge. The Alliance gets the medal for grudgeholding. Lets look at the Horde races.

  • Forsaken are composed of the humans from Lordaron. The same ones who put Thrall in internment camps. The Horde doesn't discriminate and allows them into the Horde
  • Ogres have viciously fought against orcs for centuries on their homeland. The Stonemaul ogres are members of the Horde
  • Forest trolls-Orcs fought them in the third war
  • Blood elves-High/blood elves have never been particulary friendly with the orcs.

The idea that the Horde would hold a grudge against the Pandaren because a few independant brewmasters fought against them is ridiculous. Chen Stormstout should be mentioned as a dark green point. He was integral in defeating Kul'tiras and the quest "Chen's empty keg" shows that the orcs hold him in high esteem. Zarnks 22:04, 26 June 2007 (UTC)

The dwarf attack on the tauren villiage was not retalitation. The tauren were not doing warfare on the dwarves. To use a real life example,the tauren are were just protesting,bothering evacuators and stealing tools thats not an attack. Attacking a villiage containing civilians is not retalation. Its slaughter. Zarnks 22:10, 26 June 2007 (UTC)

Various official warcraft source state that dwarves retaliated for a tauren attack/s, driving the tauren away. Mind you that many of these refreneces came out before WoW was even released as well as in books that came out later. Bael Modan was something the RPG orignally invented. Even the in-game book in WoW says they drove tauren away who were being "nuisances" (although it doesn't explain in detail what the "nuisance" was exaclty). The way you tried to word it was breaking NPOV issue, as both sides are at fault (its not dwarves against tauren, or tauren against dwarves, its both sides mutually fightng each other, both sides retaliating for various reasons).
Sorry but mutiple cited sources are more qualified than your opinion, or interpretaiton based on one limited sources. In no way will the writing be written to make either side sound like "murderers", as that would be opinions by characters, not "facts". I've warned you before and if I catch that you have altered it again, to being outside of NPOV, I will ban you again. In the future it will be longer.Baggins 22:22, 26 June 2007 (UTC)

Your ignoring my other points. Address them as well. Zarnks 22:28, 26 June 2007 (UTC)

Chen is not a "dark green" point as he is officially an "independent" he is not an Alliance or Horde member. He could go either way, or just return to his home, and not side with anyone. Infact gamewise he actually quite optional quest, one that isn't needed to complete the campaigns, and he even says he just wants to travel with Rexxar for a while, he didn't have plans to stay with them permanently. Even TFT called him an Independent Hero...
Sorry Horde does hold grudges, as much as the Alliance even, they haven't bothered to try to forgive the Draenei. Many continue to break the peace treaty with the Alliance despite Thrall trying to hold them back, they still hold grudges to most Alliance races. Thrall actually doesn't like the Forsaken, in his own words, in Horde Player's Guide, and Lands of Myster, he only let them into the Horde as he was desperate to increases his forces just in case Alliance decided to break out into full scale war, as his forces are limited compared to those of the Alliance. That still doesn't mean he personally likes them or the fact that he had to.
You might also notice that Forsaken and Blood Elves are not on "friendly" terms with most of the Horde, but rather limited to "neutral" status. You know why? Because the other Horde haven't fully accepted them in. Many grudges are still held.Baggins 22:35, 26 June 2007 (UTC)

Chen is not a "dark green" point as he is officially an "independent" he is not an Alliance or Horde member So are the Pandaren at Bael modan. It seems I'm uncovering your personal bias. Zarnks 22:45, 26 June 2007 (UTC)

"they haven't bothered to try to forgive the Draenei. " The orcs in present times have never expressed a dislike toward the draenei. Rise of the Horde shows they deeply regret their actions. Zarnks 22:53, 26 June 2007 (UTC)

"Forsaken and blood elves are accepted into the horde honor hold and are a common sight in Ogrimmar. Orc,and most tauren npcs(only one tauren npc infact) don't hold grudges against the Forsaken or the blood elves. The orcs are extremely accepting of the forssaken and the blood elves. Its the Forsaken and the blood elves that hold grudges. They are even found as ambassadors. Horde is probably the only faction where you would Forest trolls and elves on the same side. If they can forgive humans who put their leader in an internment camp they can forgive Pandaria for the actions of a few neutral brewmasters."

I can give you some quotes of many horde characters that have not accepted them 100% including thrall. The fact blizzard made them neutral rather than friendly is also proof that they haven't been accepted in full as well. Imo, definitley many are holding grudges. But the same can be said for the Alliance as well. Not all in alliance hold grudges, many do. You do know that the WoW doesn't show correct scale for the world right? Hell most of the Horde members aren't even in game, you don't even see 10% of the Horde ingame. As for ambassdors would you like some quotes from the Orc ambassador to Undercity, of his opinions of the Forsaken? He might act as ambassador but that doesn't mean he likes them.

'Chen is not a "dark green" point as he is officially an "independent" he is not an Alliance or Horde member

So are the Pandaren at Bael modan. It seems I'm uncovering your personal bias."

Actually I just think they are independent, and will never be playable. However what is cited is quoted from the books that discuss the issue, in that most have already started staying with the Alliace, and once they become friends they never break that oath, they'd rather go back home than interfere. I don't make judgement on that issue, just stating what the books said on the issue. Quotes and citations are superior to "opinions".

"they haven't bothered to try to forgive the Draenei. " The orcs in present times have never expressed a dislike toward the draenei. Rise of the Horde shows they deeply regret their actions."

Yet, they never sent out abassadors, and letters of friendship, to try to fix the problems. They regret it but haven't tried to mend the rift. Infact RotH discusses how Thrall doesn't think there will ever be peace between them. But Velen is wise, he was a friend of Durotan (although Durotan betrayed the draenei, velen understood it would happen), he would likely give Thrall the chance if Thrall sent out a letter telling him who he was. Even Jaina would probably put a good word in for Thrall as they are still very good friends. But why didn't they try?Baggins 23:14, 26 June 2007 (UTC)

Maybe they felt the apology wouldn't go through? Zarnks 04:31, 27 June 2007 (UTC)

Which doens't make much sense, Jaina would have defended them, and many of their other friends in Theramore. I'm sure Jaina would have made sure the letter got through. its like they gave up before even giving it a chance. I mean it would have been one thing if they tried, but to give up before finding out if there was even a chance...? That's actually pretty sad.Baggins 10:06, 27 June 2007 (UTC)

Perhaps they already did recently its just not talked about ingame? They do encourage cooperation with the draenei in Shaatar. There's little information on this,so we can't know for sure. Zarnks 20:04, 27 June 2007 (UTC)

Does anyone still mind if I mention that horde hasn't been known to hold a grudge? Zarnks 02:21, 28 June 2007 (UTC)

That would be just personal opinion. It can be interpreted different ways by different people. Some think they do hold grudges. If you inserted it there you'll end up drawing in all the people that think they do hold a grudge, and it would break down into a "grudge match" to parden the pun. So no it stays out of the article. Baggins 03:16, 28 June 2007 (UTC)

Most of the article is just speculation. This is shown repeatedly,you can't just blow it off due to your Alliance favortism. Zarnks 06:08, 8 July 2007 (UTC)

Speculation with underlying facts that can be cited. There's an important difference. Zarnks, if Baggins is Alliance biased, it is only because there are many on here who are certainly Horde biased and keep trying to edit articles to put the Horde in a better light (even by removing citations). Baggins, myself and others resist that and get accused of bias for it. If you can cite stuff, then yes, you will have a much better chance of getting info in. Kirkburn talk contr 15:47, 8 July 2007 (UTC)

Mok'Nathal description

Baggins, why did you put a description in the Mok'Nathal box? Do Mok'Nathal need a description for some reason and the other races don't? In any case, I think the links to the race page will give accurate description enough. ---- Battlegroup RoundIconVorbis AvailablequesticonTalk ActivequesticonContribs
Vorbis it was more to point out that not all "Mok'Nathal" are half-ogres. Mok'Nathal is a faction of mostly half-ogres, but not all are half-ogres. It is not really a "race" (except the half-ogres of course), this was for clarification reasons.Baggins 21:09, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

But feel free move it around in the article to make less of a heading, if you like.Baggins 23:56, 24 June 2007 (UTC)

High Elves

i still think there is a chance that alliance high elves will come out one day with their own kingdom...

yeah me too but you have too put ur sig on too --Airiph 22:07, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

Blizzard will never make high elves a new race, I promise you. Such a choice would not make sense commercially. ---- Battlegroup RoundIconVorbis AvailablequesticonTalk ActivequesticonContribs

First off I'm going to say there are better reasons for why high elves would not become playable races. I'm sure commerical reasons isn't one of them.
I'm sure commercial issues wouldn't be a problem. High elves are actually very popular, are one of the major races in lore history, and are one of the main alliance playable races in the RPG. There are people who want to emulate the Fellowship and have their Legolas journying with their Gimlis.
One of the biggest arguements for not having other races is their model shape, because the models don't look different enough. So players would be playing essentiall the same race.
However they could easily alter their models to make them different than blood elves, change the style of clothing they wear, change the hair styles, the way they stand could be altered, their bearing, their body movements, as well showing how a race would look if they didn't rely on the Sunwell or other sources of arcane anymore, as well as having a completely different set of emotes.
They could also further seperate blood elves by adding the ability to have special tattoos for blood elves (as stated by the lore). Perhaps tattoos that could be designed and bought in game. Maybe rune tatoos could be a new profession? Tattoos on blood elves would be even more elaborate much like shown on the box of TBC.
Also I'm not sure it would entirley improbable for Wildhammer to be playable race as well. Their models could be altered to make them closer to lore, taller and wilder, more barbarian like than Ironforge dwarves. Perhaps basing them off the original Wildhammer art in WC2. The same could be done for Dark Irons, but making a model for them that is they are "less stocky and more dextrous" as stated in lore.
It was speculated that forest trolls could never be a playable race because they shared the same models as jungle trolls, just color differences. Some people suggested why not make current trolls be a generic Horde trolls and come from several different types of trolls. Thus just giving more skin color options at the beginning.
LOTRO actually does a good job of this. For each major race, human, dwarven, elf, and hobbit, there are many races to choose from, that open up many options for skin color, eye color, etc (but each uses base hair styles, facial styles). But it allows for hundreds of options compared to WoW.
Or in the case of Forest Trolls they have been given a new model in some locations, one that makes them look closer to Troll Berzerkers of WC2, its different enough from the regular troll model that it could be designed to be a new playable race. It could be a good reason to bring in the return of Zul'jin, as their major leader. Plus if one hasn't noticed there are actually two forest troll instances in Quel'Thalas. Why would there need to be two forest troll themed raids? Couldn't one be opened up to become a future expansion pack zone?
I'm sure Zul'aman will be the raid, but what about Tor'watha? That could easily be utilized and converted to a brand new starting zone for forest trolls. That could lead them into Eversong woods and Ghostlands for leveling.-Baggins 00:55, 25 June 2007 (UTC)

High Elves are cool.....Airiph 10:45, 25 June 2007 (UTC)

Sorry Baggs but I don't see High elves as a regular playable race. Where would they get their numbers,what about their language? Zarnks 00:34, 26 June 2007 (UTC)

I don't see them as a playable race either.But I'm just pointing out reasons they could be. Hell that's the whole point of this speculation article people giving reasons why they think races should be playable, despite Blizzard giving reasons why they wouldn't likely be playable races, in quotes and published works. Yet many of the races that aren't on the list are actually "playable" races in other forms of media.
In anycase as for languages eh that doesn't matter they still could prevent high elves from communicating with blood elves. I mean lore wise Undead still know remember Common, they just choose to speak an old outcast language of Gutterspeak. The whole language barrier is just a game mechanic, and not actual lore. They could use the same game mechanic to prevent high elves and blood elves from talking to each other. The RPG already goes into this saying that High Elves choose not to communicate with Blood Elves, as they don't trust them.
There numbers? The numbers of jungle trolls was never that high, and yet they are a playable race. The numbers of gnomes was not that high after most of their race bit it during the fall of Gnomeregan yet they are playable race. The number of orcs was never as high as humans yet they are a playable race. Remember the Horde that traveled to Kalimdor, left on about dozen human ships from Eastern Kingdoms according to lore (do the math but ships couldn't have held that many orcs, especially if you consider the fact that lost some of the ships on the way to Kalimdor). Although I'm sure that many orcs that got left behind came later, and that's what's filled in numbers somewhat. Even the Forsaken numbers were never that high (majority of Undead are still under control by the Scourge), and yet they are playable race.
The whole number game excuse is kinda silly when one considers that most of the races are described as having low numbers :p... It was partly because of low numbers that Thrall chose to allow Forsaken and Blood Elves into the Horde it was matter of survival, of desperation to have enough forces to defend the Horde if Alliance ever decided to turn on them, even if he didn't personally like doing it...Baggins 19:24, 26 June 2007 (UTC)
I still think High Elves should be in the racepage, the chance surely exist, and there is alot of possibilities with a new high elf kingdom on kalimdor.

and personally i would reroll a high elf immediately

Baggins, high elves will never make it into WoW. Would you as a company gamble your reputation and future profits over a race that looks identical to an already playable in-game race? Remember that it is not only RPers Blizzard is playing to (the type of people who generally make up the wowwiki community), but also PvPers and PvEers - who I am sure won't give a hoot about more of the same (elves) and a couple of new emotes and hairstyles (just like advertising Action Man "with a mullet, new pose and a sun tan!"). Let's think of this realistically: fantasy is a genre where imagination is supposed to run wild; where weird and wonderful creatures are encountered trying to bash each others' brains out. More of the same (Gilneas humans, Wildhammer dwarves, those flakey old Leper Gnomes) simply does not cut it. The player base in general wants something NEW.
High elves' chance vanished with the arrival of the blood elves. And I hate to say this but... lore doesn't really factor that much into Blizzard's decision (draenei!) and yes, it is the commercial reason - "more customers, more cash" - which will decide any new race. ---- Battlegroup RoundIconVorbis AvailablequesticonTalk ActivequesticonContribs

I still think its possible, do not be fooled by the similarities, high elfs are worlds apart from bloodelfs, especially since belf will be demonic soon --Gurluas 20:29, 27 June 2007 (UTC)

I'm beginning to doubt whether anyone is listening to me. The lore counts for nothing.
Gurluas, if you strip away the magic, the robes and the hairstyles of a blood elf you will get pretty much a high elf. That's it. The difference between the two is essentially just a difference is religion with minor differences in pigmentation. And no, blood elves addicted to magic will not simply go 'poof' and turn into a satyr... for Azerothian blood elves, I'd reckon it will take several generations before there are any further external differences to high elves.
Wait as long as you want, I'm telling you high elves are not going to happen. Blizzard was already toeing the line with blood elves; another elven race - heck, one which is freaking identical to another existing race - will just be corporate suicide. "Hey, are you surprised that we haven't done anything actually new again?"---- Battlegroup RoundIconVorbis AvailablequesticonTalk ActivequesticonContribs

Giants are more likly to appear as a playable race then High Elves. Hordesupporter 04:21, 29 June 2007 (UTC)

That would be cool for PvP...the two elves could sneek in and stuff...but still the thing would still be hostile and the two elves understand eachother thats still not bad and i think high elves have lighter skin...mabey even a dif accent.Think about could still work...thers not THAT many so they could share a human kingdom...arent there like 4000 high elves and like 500 half elves in stormwind(i cant think exactly how much)... so yeah i think it is possibly...mabey it can come in an old allie expansion set with ogres mabey another horde and allie race Airiph 00:49, 4 July 2007 (UTC)................chances and hopes still up

Plus you will know its a blood or high elf because the names will be red or green! Who cares if the look the same as blood elves, who cares!! Any other thing that can be wrong say it! Isn`t there any blizz employee looking at the discussions?!Airiph 22:32, 21 July 2007 (UTC)
I do not know.--SWM2448 22:35, 21 July 2007 (UTC)

Don't make me protest. lolAiriph 22:37, 21 July 2007 (UTC)

What?--SWM2448 22:38, 21 July 2007 (UTC)

plus if you ever SWG (star wars galexys)you start aff at anyrace you want then you choose rebel or empire,and in pvp its still easy too tell ally or not so look alike is not a problem.they have more high elves then darkspear or orcs had before making oggrimmer like 1 persen said.i dont know there mount but i`d imagin they`d have the same classes exept including warrior and discluiding warlock! i dont know why you think its not gona happenAiriph 02:20, 22 July 2007 (UTC)

i agree with you Airiph, i think high elves should be a playable race. just a few adjustments such as hairstyles and hair colour, skin colour and their accent and how they stand. but one thing, i think High Elves should have the warrior. And what does everyone think of High Elevs having a Druid class??--Envyme 05:27, 18 November 2007 (UTC)Envyme

I agree w/ Airiph and Envyme. And the part about te language thing can be fixed. We could say the High Elves speak Old Thalassian, or the changethe BE's language to new Thalassian or Sindassi.  IconSmall HighElf Male Mr.X8 Talk Contribs 16:53, 18 November 2007 (UTC)


i realy dont think Naga should bee a playable race because lady vashj`s are with the illidary and the other is pure evil and may become an instance --Airiph 19:45, 24 June 2007 (UTC)

Lore can be made up or retconned, so there is always a possibility as long as there is sufficient demand for such a race. ---- Battlegroup RoundIconVorbis AvailablequesticonTalk ActivequesticonContribs Rebel soup anyone?--SWM2448 19:51, 24 June 2007 (UTC)

Why do you think that guy's called a "heretic"? In motivations he has little in common with his people, that's why he's locked up. Hordesupporter 15:51, 29 June 2007 (UTC)

How about a new faction of heretic naga that no longer hears or listens to the old whispers? Sounds plausible. Although it is a bit odd that Skar'this is called a heretic even though he serves Neptulon who serves the old gods. There's a perfect starting area in Gilneas that leads into Silverpine after horde players reach 10 levels. Raze 01:37, 17 July 2007 (UTC)

Actually there's only 1 unsolvable problem I see for playable Naga: Mounts. In particular, flying mounts. I cannot think of any creature or special ability that'll work. They can always design and implement that the naga have no legs and shoes slots, and be compensated in other ways. They could introduce an alliance race with the same limitation, such as the Red Dragonkin. I can't think of a way around mounts though. Raze 01:52, 17 July 2007 (UTC)

Come to think of it they would look pretty absurd in a robe Raze 02:26, 17 July 2007 (UTC)
Not nessesarily. I mean, the robe could end at about the point where the tail reaches the ground. From that point an on, they could use any possible boot graphics for the last part of the tail (the upper tail part could be covered by legging graphics when no robe is present). I really want the naga to become playable, and should not be hard to do lore-wise, actually. They could just add some new lore that makes the playable naga against Azshara. --Kulsprutejojjo 19:41, 18 July 2007 (UTC)
I agree clothing isn't a barrier for making the race playable, but I reckon mounts still are. Raze 12:10, 19 July 2007 (UTC)
For mounts, they could try something like having the tail circle up or at least lay sideways on the mount to provide some balance (Though it would still be tough to do and make it look good.)Minionman 16:20, 22 July 2007 (UTC)
I could be wrong, but I doubt it. I'm having trouble imagining the naga having long enough tail to grip the creatures' backs. Raze 17:06, 22 July 2007 (UTC)
I only just realised that female naga have 4 arms. How about if they can wear 2 sets of gloves and bracers to compensate for the lack of pants and shoes? Some more balancing will be needed, but it would make more sense than "tail guards" or whatever that sound like they might hinder their movement. Raze 17:06, 22 July 2007 (UTC)
Actually, in WC3, the Sirens did have some protection on their tail. They had some kind of legplate that covered the sides of the tail. So this could be another solution. Note that although plate armor and such may be clumsy, they ususually cut it off in several different sections, kinda like scales, adding flexibily and allowing more easy movement than with one big oven plate on the side, which is very limiting to the movement, since it isn't very flexible. And to your idea of having 2 pairs of gloves and bracers, I can say that it won't work. males only have one set of arms. Would just be easier to let the bracers and gloves cover both sets of arms for the females. Same may apply to one-handed weapons. Not two-handed, though, because it will probably only take one arm per side to use it (not to mention that it would look strange if they used two staffs crossing each other, or all 4 arms holding the staff). --Kulsprutejojjo 20:31, 23 July 2007 (UTC)


Why cant they add Ogres?If its size they made some Touren sized Ogres.So why not?They could fit well with an old allys pack with an old ally like Furbolgs too join the alliance. Airiph 10:48, 25 June 2007 (UTC)

I've been thinking of ogres as a playable race for a while. I was thinking their classes should be

Shaman(seen ingame) hunter(I don't imagine ogres farming alot)

spirit warrior(Horde paladin. Spirit warriors are to shamans as Paladins are to priests. Their spells would be brownish green and their mount would a spirit wolf.)

Mage(seen ingame


runemaster(ogres have been Pugilists from the beggining)

Their leader would be a draenor giant(revealed to be the true creators of the ogres) and their mount would large boars. Maybe I should move this a rumour page.

Zarnks 19:39, 25 June 2007 (UTC)

Yea good idea! Airiph 11:45, 26 June 2007 (UTC)

The ogres would have ton of customization options with players being able to choose from red,blue,yellow,black,and purple skintones. Two headed ogres(controllled by one player) would be an option with headgear appearing on both heads. Ogre females would appear for the first time ingame. I'll add some emotes later and perhaps a rumour page for it. Zarnks 17:41, 26 June 2007 (UTC)

Mok'nathal classes would be druid,runemaster,hunter,warrior,shaman and, spirit warrior. Mounts would be bears.

  • sigh* At best Ogres would have one-headed and two-headed options, female ogres won't be popping up anytime soon. Hordesupporter 03:44, 29 June 2007 (UTC)
If the race was going to be a playable race, they'd probably come up with a female version for the race. Much like they did for other races. Remember before WoW several of the currently playable races never had female examples (except in the novels and other spin-off sources). The same case exists for ogres.Baggins 03:46, 29 June 2007 (UTC)

I get the feeling that a female ogre would scar me for life... Hordesupporter 15:52, 29 June 2007 (UTC)

Haha. Ya, except for Blizzard's strange practice of making many of the ugly races' females pretty (or at least the option ot make a young and pretty toon) :p... Although the idea of a pretty ogre seems like an oxymoron LOLBaggins 15:55, 29 June 2007 (UTC)

Many of the horde's females aren't that bad to me. Altohugh the ogres will probably be a diffrent story, honestly, I think Nerubains are more handsome then ogres. (And that's saying something, considering my Arachnophobia) Hordesupporter 16:06, 29 June 2007 (UTC)

I agree most of the horde females range from pretty (beautiful even) to cute (tauren), or have the option to be made pretty (even the undead, and I'm no necro...). Alliance females range from pretty/beautiful to cute as well (although I'm not so sure about the dwarven females LOL). But ya, I suppose they could make ogre females the first truly ugly females, LOL.Baggins 16:14, 29 June 2007 (UTC)
Nah... ogre females - created to the right amount of 'cuteness' - could look somewhat like Dawn French. Which is not bad at all. Edit: I'm not saying lovely Dawn is an ogre! She just has the correct proportions, if you know what I mean. :) ---- Battlegroup RoundIconVorbis AvailablequesticonTalk ActivequesticonContribs

I imagine ogre females would look like this piece of fanart[1]. I'd make the waste bigger. Heres some fanart of two headed female ogre[2]. They wouldn't the first girls in WoW on the chubby side. Zarnks 23:45, 29 June 2007 (UTC)

i think ogres best shot to be a playable race vanished with TBC, it would be easier to get other races connected to the emerald dream/northrend or any other expansion than the ogres, ogres are just everywhere in outland, that was their best shot and its gone wala. a female ogre? would be best choice for a raid boss as the "Mother of all that is Ogre" XD. but we can just wait and see, who knows, blizz might go mad and add them for the alliance :P --lucifersama 07:17, 30 June 2007 (UTC)

All the classic races(even high elves to some extent) with the exception of ogres are playable. Ogres have been in Warcraft from the very beggining appearing in every single game. They'll be playable sooner or later. Zarnks 07:36, 30 June 2007 (UTC)

i know there where in every warcraft, but i was talking lore wise. BE and Draeni where fitting the lore of TBC, the ogres would'v fitted as thier existence there. in the later expansions, there are several more suitable races to become playable, im not saying they are not suited to be playable, but making them so in an expansion that is far from any kind of a lore they can fit in would make it a bit unsuitable, but who knows. --lucifersama 09:02, 30 June 2007 (UTC)

On the contrary, there are more ogres on Azeroth than on Outland (unlike half-ogre Mok'Nathal) - they've established enough of a presence in various areas of Azeroth (and for a long enough time) to make it into almost any expansion. ---- Battlegroup RoundIconVorbis AvailablequesticonTalk ActivequesticonContribs

I suppose that should they become playable their racial leader will bo someone like Draz'zlib, an ogre that has intelligence equal to most civilized sentinet races. Furthermore, ogres could fit in a LOT of expansions, Great Sea, Old Gods, etc. Off the top of my head, Emerald dream and Northrend are the only expansion I DON'T see them joining the roster. Hordesupporter 04:23, 1 July 2007 (UTC)


These guys should be introduced to rival ogres and or Mok'nathal in the next expansion. Still thinking of a good mount.

Classes should be shaman,Runemaster,Warrior,Rogue,hunter and druid. Zarnks 23:53, 27 June 2007 (UTC)

Well, they could ride giant bears; but then again a bear riding a bear is a bit... boring. I think the ideal mount would be the mammoth of Northrend: big, chunky and easily rideable. Um... the classes look fairly workable, but I'd think of another alternative for 'Runemaster' if I were you just to be on the safe side. ---- Battlegroup RoundIconVorbis AvailablequesticonTalk ActivequesticonContribs

Dark Trolls

Would you think Dark Trolls would be an alliance race?Cause they allied Night Elves During The War of The ancients.Airiph 11:50, 26 June 2007 (UTC)

What I think is that we should add a "dead horse" group of races to the page somewhere so that the poor beasts don't get beaten so much. --User:Varghedin/Sig 15:31, 26 June 2007 (UTC)
-Sigh-. Maybe if we made people pay more attention to the banner at the top of the page which states explicitly why such races are not included, THEN they'll stop flogging the bloody beast. ---- Battlegroup RoundIconVorbis AvailablequesticonTalk ActivequesticonContribs


"-Only females have been witnessed, and its assumed that all harpies are female (although the possibility of males exists)."
Where does it say this? I thought that harpies were a unique race in Warcraft in that they are entirely female; the males being other sapient humanoid races who are raped then devoured. ---- Battlegroup RoundIconVorbis AvailablequesticonTalk ActivequesticonContribs
I thought that too. :/ --SWM2448 18:02, 29 June 2007 (UTC)

It says it in monster guide, thtat there may be males, :). It says they just haven't been witnessed by researchers, and the "raping" is only a rumor. Go read the updated harpy article, ;). I added in the info a few days ago :p...Baggins 18:50, 29 June 2007 (UTC)

Harpies are more hostile cause there hated by sentenials and tourenAiriph 00:51, 4 July 2007 (UTC)


Looks like there will be no new races in world of warcraft: wrath of the lich king

adding them would not be a problem, there are many usefull races in northrend... but i suggest you erase all the races from the list that say: PROBABLE EXPANSION: NORTHREND -User:16thDay

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