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| + | {{Forumheader|Warcraft lore}} |
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| − | {{Racename|orc|Orc}} |
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| + | <!-- Please put your content under this paragraph. Be sure to sign your edits with four tildes ~~~~ --> |
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| + | Yeah, so the new book reveals the true leader if the Infinite Dragonflight. I would like to be reminded what are the rules on spoilers from new lore material? Ya' know, before I spoil it for everybody. |
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| + | --[[User:AhotahThunderhorn|AhotahThunderhorn]] ([[User talk:AhotahThunderhorn|talk]]) 03:44, 21 July 2011 (UTC) |
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| + | :Someone correct me if im wrong but there was never a set-in-stone policy. I belive we do a two week period but let one of the admins confirm that. <small>—The preceding [[WoWpedia:Signature|unsigned]] comment was added by {{User|Warthok}}.</small> |
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| − | ---- |
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| + | ::Multiple exemples (like Bolvar's end, [[Forum:Stormrage and spoilers...|Stormrage book]], even [[Talk:Anduin Lothar#Spoilers|Anduin Lother]]) and a [[Wowpedia talk:Lore policy#Proposal recall vote: spoiler policy|rejected policy]] have settled the followings: |
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| + | ::*Wowpedia is a spoiler zone, when someone comes here he knows what is going to happen |
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| + | :::*As a consequence of the previous, there shall not be any spoiler warning (template) in any article |
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| + | ::A 2 week discretion is observed, giving time to read the books (or wait for it because I am a goddam european!) |
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| + | ::I will try to write it properly (eventually) |
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| + | ::{{User:A'noob/sig}} 14:42, 21 July 2011 (UTC) |
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| + | :::[[WP:LPS]] |
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| − | == Crest == |
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| + | :::{{User:A'noob/sig}} 15:43, 21 July 2011 (UTC) |
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| − | Note: the crest is the one the Horde used during WCIII. The one for Orcs is similar, but different. It's in Art of World of Warcraft. {{unsigned|FeldmanSkitzoid}} |
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| − | :It's entirely possible that the crest on the page isn't the proper one. I found the image in interface.mpq (Interface\Glues\Credits\Orcshield#.blp). If there's a more accurate one out there, feel free to upload a new image. --[[User:Rahskala|Rahskala]] 06:32, 4 Feb 2005 (EST) |
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| + | ::::Brashly you have attacked my policies, A'noob! But seriously, why was the older policy [http://www.wowpedia.org/index.php?title=Wowpedia:Lore_policy&diff=next&oldid=2447208 removed] (not by A'noob) after [[Forum:Stormrage and spoilers...]] and then replaced just now?--{{User:Sandwichman2448/Sig}} 16:30, 21 July 2011 (UTC) |
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| − | the crest actually is the right one as seen e.g. on the official wow desktop wallpaper; furthermore there are various images with the proper crest on various WC3 addon-cds (inofficial ones). |
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| + | :::::I'm assuming, based on the date, that it was removed due to the [[Wowpedia talk:Lore policy#Proposal recall vote: spoiler policy|recall vote rejecting the same spoiler policy]] that A'noob just put back into place. [[User:StarNeptune|StarNeptune]] ([[User talk:StarNeptune|talk]]) 19:01, 21 July 2011 (UTC) |
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| + | ::::::Wait... yeah. The removal of it. That is what I meant. If I had taken the time to read what I linked properly, I would have realized that what I linked was not the discussion about not having a spoiler policy. Quite the opposite really. Yeah. Why put it back?--{{User:Sandwichman2448/Sig}} 19:09, 21 July 2011 (UTC) |
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| − | --> feb 13, 2006: corrected various misspellings |
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| + | :::::::As one of the people who voted to recall the policy, no spoilers should be added before the book is released - which it has been like now since the vote. This is why I deleted the information about the characters from the novel page. A'noob, if you want to put the policy back in, then put a vote for it. We already recalled it once, so it's only fair that you put up a vote to bring it back. --{{User:Gourra/Sig2}} 19:15, 21 July 2011 (UTC) |
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| − | --[[User:Grimgull|Grim]] 11:26, 13 Feb 2006 (EST) |
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| + | ::::::::So what does all this policy discussion ultimately come to? Is it okay for me to reveal the leader on not?[[User:AhotahThunderhorn|AhotahThunderhorn]] ([[User talk:AhotahThunderhorn|talk]]) 01:43, 22 July 2011 (UTC) |
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| − | == Orc POV == |
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| + | :::::::::It is, as long as you provide the source in the book. --{{User:Gourra/Sig2}} 01:45, 22 July 2011 (UTC) |
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| − | Ok, will somebody please explain to me when Blizzard is going to decide that they've made enough books about orcs and might wanna start in on other races? So far the orcs have Lord of the Clans, the War of the Ancients Trilogy (sort of), Cycle of Hatred, Rise of the Horde, so on and so forth. Meanwhile there has not been a book I'm familiar with that focuses on Tauren, Trolls, Dwarves, Gnomes, Forsaken, or Draenei, when do we get to learn about them? {{unsigned|Lckyluke372}} |
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| + | ::::::::::Similarly, someone should also restore [[Chromatus]]. -- [[User:Dark T Zeratul|Dark T Zeratul]] ([[User talk:Dark T Zeratul|talk]]) 07:07, 22 July 2011 (UTC) |
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| + | :I guess I missed the moment when the "2 week delay" was removed by vote, and thus added it thinking that we were lazy enough to forget its formulation into Policy articles. |
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| − | Thats because orcs are one of the most or the most important race in Warcraft. |
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| + | :I'll do a vote just to check |
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| − | [[User:Zarnks|Zarnks]] 06:14, 23 August 2007 (UTC) |
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| + | :{{User:A'noob/sig}} 14:06, 22 July 2011 (UTC) |
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| − | |||
| + | ::Your opinions are desired at: |
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| − | :Orcs might be said to be one of the historically significant races to the series, because the first game was Orcs vs. Humans. The series began with both orcs and humans so they both have historical signifigance throughout the entire series. But calling orcs the most important race is definitely hord-biased comment. In reality even if humans and orcs were the first races to start in the games that doesn't mean they were the most important races. |
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| + | ::[[Wowpedia talk:Lore policy#Spoiler policy_II: the revenge|Spoiler Policy II: the revenge]] |
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| + | ::{{User:A'noob/sig}} 14:21, 22 July 2011 (UTC) |
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| − | :On a related note there are plenty of novels that follow human main characters. Day of the Dragon essentially followed Rhonin although it pretty much gave Vareesa and Falstad plenty of page time as well. The Last Guardian pretty much followed Khadger from what little I've scanned over in it (I'll read it once I finish DotD). |
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| − | :In anycase one may argue that historically it all began with night elves (or rather the highborne/high elves), and that they are historically important since they were then ones that first brought war with the Burning Legion to Azeroth (turning its eye towards the world), causing the sundering of the world, leading to multiple invasions of demons to the world during 10,00 year period, Aegwyn's battle with Sargeras' Avatar, later battles with orcs, and the second coming of the Legion....Or one might argue that its the Burning Leigon that is historically important for bringing war to both Azeroth or Draenor. However the point is alot of races are historically significant and important in some way. No one race is "most important race in Warcraft".[[User:Baggins|Baggins]] 15:25, 5 September 2007 (UTC) |
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| − | == An error in the end of the article == |
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| − | Cho'Gall wasn't an orc. He (they?) was a two-headed ogre. {{unsigned|Finger of Death}} |
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| − | == Disambig? == |
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| − | Should their be a disabiguation for this page? Not only is their the playable race of orcs, but their are also the orcs of blackrock, the Fel orcs of the burning leigon, and the Mag'har of outland. I will try to creat a page for the mag'thar tonight, once i can organize a little info about them. {{unsigned|Chaztheweird}} |
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| − | ==Mag'Har and Frostwolves== |
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| − | If the Mag'Har are uncorrupted Orcs, and the FrostWolves where the only clan that fully escaped the corruption, why aren't Frostwolves depicted as Mag'Har? |
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| − | [[User:Saimdusan|Saimdusan]] |
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| − | : I sould imagine because Mag'Har are the uncorrupted ones who never crossed into Azeroth.--[[User:Ragestorm|Ragestorm]] 14:22, 4 November 2006 (EST) |
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| − | :: Yes but would walking through a portal make your skin green? It won't change anyone who walks through the Dark Portal, so why exactly would the Frostwolf's skin become green? [[User:Saimdusan|Saimdusan]] |
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| − | :::Why did the Stormreavers or Twilight's Hammer or any of them have green skin? It wasn't simply the drinking of the Blood- it was a change in priorities, a corruption of mind. Gul'dan himself had green skin, as did the rest of Blackhand and Orgrim's hordes. Also, perhaps Mag'Har are Fel Orcs who tried to return to the old ways, as opposed to never being corrupted in the first place.--[[User:Ragestorm|Ragestorm]] 08:47, 17 November 2006 (EST) |
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| − | ::::Well... I always thought that sdrinking fel blood would turn their skin green, then drinking even more made it red. We cant really tell, demon corruption is a tricky thing, every case is different. And didn't the Twilight's Hammer and Stormreaver clans drink the demon blood? And weren't Frostwolves never evil or part of the Horde during the first and second wars? Im pretty sure that they are uncorrupted Orcs, see the [[Mag'har]] article. I think Garrosh Hellscream would have crossed the Dark Portal with his dad to Azeroth if he drank Mannoroth's blood. Same with Jorin Deadeye. [[User:Saimdusan|Saimdusan]] |
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| − | :::::I doubt that you "always" thought it, but you do appear correct. It would seem then, that the Frostwolves didn't completely escape the corruption. They were ''indeed'' part of the Horde, they were just never loyal to Gul'dan and the Shadow Council- Durotan was one of Orgrim's best friends. This leaves us with two questions: 1) is green skin a sign of lesser demonic corruption? and 2) if Grom and Kilrogg willingly drank the Blood, why did their own sons disagree?--[[User:Ragestorm|Ragestorm]] 19:33, 17 November 2006 (EST) |
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| − | ::::::Aye... but Durotan never drank the demon blood, which makes it all the more confusing. [[User:Saimdusan|Saimdusan]] 17:46, 22 November 2006 (EST) |
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| − | :There you go: If completely uncorrupted orcs have brown skin, then why is Thrall green? This implies that green skin has nothing to do with the blood curse. Perhaps the Mag'har's skin is brown because of radiation or something. Golden might address this in [[Rise of the Horde]].--[[User:Ragestorm|Ragestorm]] 18:34, 22 November 2006 (EST) |
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| − | Another possibility is the change of environment, I mean they migrated from a different world. Orcs have brown skin under Draenor's red sun. but their skin turns green under the yellow sun of Azeroth, its a Superman thing. --[[User:Korgo|Korgo]] 22:45, 24 November 2006 (EST) |
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| − | ::Right theory, wrong reference. Makes sense. Even among humans, some people look different under flourescent lights than under the sun. Though they're not skin, I've got brown clothes that look green at work, under different lighting. --[[User:Ragestorm|Ragestorm]] 23:15, 24 November 2006 (EST) |
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| − | ::Well, to use a real world example, [http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a1_099.html]. There can be a wide range in what is considered caucasion, technically. If you were to look at one nationality for example people from Japan, you can see a pretty wide range of physical differences as well, and yet they are still considered Japanese. Not only that it is possible to change one's own pigment by eating enough of certain minerals. Beta Carotine turning skin orange for example. Course that is not truly a physical change its more superficial. I seem to recall the rpg saying that natural orc colors could range anywhere between dark green, to grey, to light brown in one of the sources as well.[[User:Baggins|Baggins]] 22:01, 10 December 2006 (EST) |
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| − | Yep, the even original Warcraft RPG book says that that orcs can naturally vary between light green to brown{{Cite|WRPG|51}}. So I really don't see we have much of an issue here... I see no conflict arising...[[User:Baggins|Baggins]] 22:19, 10 December 2006 (EST) |
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| − | ::Minerals or sun color, I see no issue.--[[User:Ragestorm|Ragestorm]] 23:13, 10 December 2006 (EST) |
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| − | ::As far as i know drinking the blood directly makes you red, diluted makes you green and using/exposure of warlock magics/demons makes you green, makes sense as the Frostwolves and Thrall is green though they never drank any blood -Rovdyr |
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| − | Obviously, it's genetic. BUT why would the Frostwolves still have green skin? I doubt it's moving to a different world. According to the article, orcs drank the demon blood and became greener and bigger. So yeah... I don't get it. [[User:Saimdusan|Saimdusan]] 07:28, 1 March 2007 (EST) |
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| − | ::As is spelled out in the article now, any exposure to warlock magic, even third-hand, turns orc skin green. Given the fact that Drek'Thar and the other Frostwolf shamans were practicing warlocks, there was enough exposure for the skin of the whole clan to change. --[[User:Ragestorm|<span style="border-bottom:1px dotted; cursor:help;" title="Admin">Ragestorm</span>]] <small>([[User talk:Ragestorm|talk]] · [[Special:Contributions/Ragestorm|contr]])</small> 11:52, 1 March 2007 (EST) |
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| − | ::I would also suggest scrolling down to where this has already been discussed.. >_> [[#Skin colour|>Skin colour]] --{{User:Zeal/Sig}} 15:27, 1 March 2007 (EST) |
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| − | ==World of origin== |
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| − | How can Azeroth be the homeworld of the Orcs?----[[User:Odolwa|Odolwa]] 01:01, 1 December 2006 (EST) |
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| − | :That's the typical convention for this sort of thing: most orcs (or at least the playable faction, which this article details) reside upon Azeroth, not the world of their evolution; their seat of government is in Azeroth, but does not consider itself a government-in-exile (as the draenei might be); they consider Durotar their true home now. Thus Azeroth is their homeworld, by way of Draenor. --[[User:Ragestorm|Ragestorm]] 19:15, 30 November 2006 (EST) |
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| − | I guess that could work if it said "homeworld", but it actually says "world of origin", which at least I consider being Outland. It was there that their race rose. I think this need to be discussed properly.--[[User:Odolwa|Odolwa]] 00:51, 8 December 2006 (EST) |
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| − | :To be honest, I was going by what most sci-fi sources use. We can always change it to "homeworld," I guess.--[[User:Ragestorm|Ragestorm]] 19:52, 7 December 2006 (EST) |
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| − | If we change it to "Homeworld" we could technically list all the worlds they relate themselves to.[[User:Baggins|Baggins]] 19:55, 7 December 2006 (EST) |
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| − | :Yeah, "Azeroth, by way of Draenor." What other world (that we know of) do orcs live on?--[[User:Ragestorm|Ragestorm]] 19:59, 7 December 2006 (EST) |
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| − | ::Well, I meant there are still orcs that consider Draenor their homeworld, and some who would like to take it back (or should I specify "Outland") if they could. As well as Orcs who still live there. So both, Azeroth & Draenor (Outland) are considered "Homeworlds". I sure hope BC gives us the Orc's name for the world(I hope it isn't "Outland", LOL) :p...[[User:Baggins|Baggins]] 20:05, 7 December 2006 (EST) |
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| − | :::Should we just say "Azeroth (Horde), Draenor (original species, Mag'Har)" or something like that. |
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| − | :::Note that even with whatever we decide here, the entry on [[Draenei]] remains the same.--[[User:Ragestorm|Ragestorm]] 20:19, 7 December 2006 (EST) |
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| − | :::Well ya if you get that specific it gets way to verbose.[[User:Baggins|Baggins]] 21:06, 7 December 2006 (EST) |
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| − | ==Trivia== |
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| − | "Warcraft: Orcs & Humans was originally supposed to be a Warhammer game". |
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| − | I know the Warcraft setting was largely inspired by the Warhammer Fantasy setting, but this is the first time I've heard anything like that, if it is true I don't believe this is common knowledge, so citation is needed. --[[User:Korgo|Korgo]] 05:02, 16 December 2006 (EST) |
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| − | ::Agreed.--[[User:Ragestorm|Ragestorm]] 10:18, 16 December 2006 (EST) |
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| − | == Night Elf eye color change == |
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| − | "With night elves, exposure to [[druid]]ic magic turns their eyes a golden amber colour instead of silver." As far as i know this is false, i've marked it as needing citation rather than remove it to give benefit of the doubt. --{{User:Zeal/Sig}} 19:55, 24 January 2007 (EST) |
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| − | :[http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/encyclopedia/508.xml] under the heading "silver eyes, golden eyes", towards the end of the article. I admit it's not an exact parallel, but it's relatively close. -_[[User:Ragestorm|<span style="border-bottom:1px dotted; cursor:help;" title="Admin">Ragestorm</span>]] <small>([[User talk:Ragestorm|talk]] · [[Special:Contributions/Ragestorm|contr]])</small> 20:55, 24 January 2007 (EST) |
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| − | ::Cool, didn't realize that. I really should give that thing a more thorough read :p Ty Ragestorm, added the link. --{{User:Zeal/Sig}} 09:51, 25 January 2007 (EST) |
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| − | Why is this in the Orc talk page?Mr.X8 23:18, 7 September 2007 (UTC) |
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| − | :Orc eyes change as well.--{{User:Sandwichman2448/Sig}} 23:25, 7 September 2007 (UTC) |
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| − | == Skin colour == |
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| − | Okay, this is really confusing now. Why and how are fel orcs' skin red? Mannoroth or Magtheridon? In RotH the blood of a pitlord only made them green :/ {{User:Kirkburn/Sig}} 13:35, 26 January 2007 (EST) |
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| − | Update: Zeal says - "Mannaorth blood first time (RotH) = Red eyes, bloodlust. Mannaroth blood the second time (WC3) = red flesh, blood lust, red eyes. Magetheridon blood = red flesh, blood lust, red eyes." Correct? If so, this page needs an update and so does [[fel orc]]. {{User:Kirkburn/Sig}} 13:36, 26 January 2007 (EST) |
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| − | ::Something about Mannoroth's blood was different the second time than the first. It would appear that it need not be Mannoroth's blood, but the blood of any high-level Pit Lord. --[[User:Ragestorm|<span style="border-bottom:1px dotted; cursor:help;" title="Admin">Ragestorm</span>]] <small>([[User talk:Ragestorm|talk]] · [[Special:Contributions/Ragestorm|contr]])</small> 14:36, 26 January 2007 (EST) |
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| − | :::It's not just red skin either, the tusks and claws get more vicious, their ears stick out, and they have horned growths some places on their body. It could also be directly correlated to the ''amount'' of pit lord blood that is imbibed. The first time the orcs partook of it, it was spread thin across almost the entire Horde. The second time, the blood was concentrated in a small font and only Grom and his orcs drank from it, which would then give them higher amounts of pit lord blood per orc. They already had some in their system from before. The third time, only the remaining clans on Outland drank from Magtheridon's blood, and they've had a steady supply of it, again granting larger amounts per orc. --{{User:Varghedin/Sig}} 08:54, 27 January 2007 (EST) |
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| − | ::::I dunno about horn growths, but in all cases, their canines grew larger (and presumably nails too) and their body mass increased. --{{User:Zeal/Sig}} 09:10, 27 January 2007 (EST) |
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| − | :::::They have very prominent horn growths along the jaw, the spine, the elbows and the knuckles. --{{User:Varghedin/Sig}} 11:37, 27 January 2007 (EST) |
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| − | So, why is [[Thrall]] green, [[Gul'dan]] green, and are the [[Mag'har]] brown ? Grom hellscream is green on some pictures, but turns red later. probably because he consumed too much blood then ? {{User:CrazyJack/Sig}} 10:20, 20 February 2007 (EST) |
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| − | :The skin colour is passed down, all Azerothian Orcs are green skinned, as the generations before them were. As to Grom turning red, he was high on the demonic blood, he reverted back to his green skinned, red eyed form after he was saved. After Mannoroth was killed his (and presumably all Orcs who drank Mannoroth's blood) eyes turned back to normal too. --{{User:Zeal/Sig}} 12:18, 20 February 2007 (EST) |
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| − | :Well, I can't say much about the Mag'har, they are never mentioned in Rise of the Horde, but I remember reading in some of the Mag'har quests that they are exiles who were seen unfit for battle by Blackhand. Most likely they were exiled to a place safe enough from fel magic and early enough before their skin turned green. The clans that took part in the Horde's wars weren't so lucky and so their skin turned green. |
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| − | :[[User:PRH|PRH]] 10:57, 4 July 2007 (UTC) |
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| − | ::Imo, green means they haven't drunk fel blood, red means they have (plus the other changes, similar to the eredar. Just look at KJ), and brown... well, they're coloured orcs, I suppose.--[[User:Frosti|Frosti]] 21:33, 1 August 2007 (UTC) |
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| − | :: *sigh* Read Rise of the Horde before speculating. It explicitly states that the natural skin color of ALL orcs on Draenor before corruption was brown. |
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| − | ::[[User:PRH|PRH]] 11:49, 2 August 2007 (UTC) |
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| − | ::The blood didnt turn there skin green the first tiem there skin turend green from exposer to demonic magic. --[[User:Vrall|Vrall]] 19:01, 6 August 2007 (UTC) |
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| − | ==Age== |
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| − | How old does orcs get? Grom is 46, dont know how old Drek'Thar is but im pretty sure he aint young anymore, and remember seeing somewhere that Ner'Zhul started playing around with Kil'Jaeden 150 years ago, and its (not sure) about 1+ years ago he was made lich king by Kil'Jaeden so at that time he must have been quite old. -Rovdyr |
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| − | :Grom would be a fair few years over 125 when he died actually, probably around 140 to be more exact. If you want to know the more extreme of ages, look at Geyha and Bladefist. They both have to be in their 200's. Blizzard have never been too good with the concept of time and age.. >_> --{{User:Zeal/Sig}} 19:48, 26 January 2007 (EST) |
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| − | ::I should probably explain where that's from. It's generally all from the [[timeline (unofficial)|''unofficial'' timeline]] and that we know Grom was only just maturing atleast 100 years ago from RotH. We also know Durotan, Geyha's son, was young and grew to maturity 100 years ago, so that would make her in her later life back then from RotH. Bladefist was also said to be old and past his time for an Orc 100 years ago in RotH. --{{User:Zeal/Sig}} 19:56, 26 January 2007 (EST) |
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| − | :::According to the RPG its mentioned that exposure to fel magic extends life. The gameplay (I.E. dice roll) age lists for the average lifespans for orcs, lists orcs as reaching old age at 65 and becoming at venerable age of 80 years approximately. So any orcs that have lived over 65-80 years have probably had their lives extended unnaturally due to exposure to fel magic. [[User:Baggins|Baggins]] 15:08, 10 April 2007 (EDT) |
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| − | == Orcs different colors... == |
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| − | At the moment in wow, the colors of the orcs are dark-green, green, brown and red. How come they got these colors? Did all the orcs from the beginning be brown, then they drank Mannoroths Blood and turned green? There is a problem with this The Frostwolf clan did never drink from the blood and they still became green, Also they did not spend much time with the rest of the orcs because they got exiled shortly after. So did the orcs that ventured through the dark portal become green? It should make sense because all corrupted orcs in Outland are red, uncorrupted brown {{unsigned|Frejh}} |
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| − | ::Just, being exposed to fel magic from others using it, is enough to cause an orc to turn green. They turn red with continued drinking of Annihilan blood. Its apparently enough of a mutation that it can be passed on genetically as well. Its unclear why the Maghar are still brown considering they have been exposed to demonic forces and fel magics of the twisting nether for a long time. |
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| − | ::As a funny side note the human timeline for orcs, as stated in a quest in The Burning Crusade, is that Green Orcs came first, then Red orcs, and finally the Brown Orcs. :).[[User:Baggins|Baggins]] 14:37, 10 April 2007 (EDT) |
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| − | :: I was under the impression that orcs were natural green and brown, just like humans have different natural skin colors and that the green orc tribes where the ones that became curopted while the brown orc tribes choose not to accociate with the demons--[[User:Reskar|Reskar]] 14:42, 10 April 2007 (EDT) |
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| − | :::Well according to Rise of the Horde they were originally brown, but when warlocks started summoning demons and using fel magic, it caused all orcs around the warlocks to start turning green, their old brown skin actually started to peel away. Later we know that children were born to newly green orcs, also green. [[User:Baggins|Baggins]] 14:51, 10 April 2007 (EDT) |
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| − | :: that happens to me too! my skin peels away and exposes red skin underneath when i'm exposed to the foul demonic rays of the sun!--[[User:Reskar|Reskar]] 14:58, 10 April 2007 (EDT) |
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| − | :::LOL, at least that isn't permanent, :P... Apparently once an orc turns green, they stay green for the rest of their life. It isn't easy being green. Anycase, orcs of different shades have been born since the initial green orcs, apparently including some browns, greys, various shades of green. Although most even if are brownish, or grey, still have a greenish tinge of some sort.[[User:Baggins|Baggins]] 15:01, 10 April 2007 (EDT) |
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| − | == Grudges == |
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| − | Orcs don't hold grudges? Not exactly. Just because the Forsaken and sin'dorei are part of the Horde doesn't really mean they don't hold grudges. It's a political stance, not a personal one. Not reverting, because I know it'll lead to an edit war.--[[User:Ragestorm|<span style="border-bottom:1px dotted; cursor:help;" title="Admin">Ragestorm</span>]] <small>([[User talk:Ragestorm|talk]] · [[Special:Contributions/Ragestorm|contr]])</small> 21:34, 11 July 2007 (UTC) |
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| − | i'm not saying an orc never holds a grudge but on a whole they don't hold grudges against races. Orcs don't display any animoscity towards blood elves and forsaken |
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| − | [[User:Zarnks|Zarnks]] 23:35, 12 July 2007 (UTC) |
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| − | :I'm removing it since its an opinion, and it doesn't hold up to facts. Its said in the lore that most of the horde only beGRUDGingly tolerate the forsaken, and most likely blood elves too. |
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| − | ::"As the situation in Kalimdor grew bloodier, Sylvanas offered an alliance to Thrall, which he grudgingly accepted.{{Cite|HPG|176}} Thrall needed the alliance as much as the Forsaken did. Grudgingly, he accepted the Forsaken into the Horde."{{Cite|HPG|151}} |
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| − | :As a huge number of orcs, and other members of the Horde hold past grudges with the Alliance, and continue to attack them despite his orders not to. Granted Alliance is also at fault for not listening to Jaina, and holding long time fear and hatred of the Horde as well.[[User:Baggins|Baggins]] 15:06, 5 September 2007 (UTC) |
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| − | ==Minor edits== |
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| − | I made several minor edits to fix historical errors in the article. |
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| − | War Continues: Originally this said that Orgrim overthrew Blackhand because of his role in killing Durotan, but all of the sources I've read say that it was due to his role in corrupting the Horde. I'm not sure if the murder was sanctioned by Blackhand. |
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| − | Gul'Dan's Folly: This previously said that Terenas hoped that the Orcs would lose their bloodlust and join the Alliance. While I remember it being said that he hoped they could be pacified, I think saying that he hoped for them to join the Alliance is a wee bit of a stretch. |
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| − | Thrall's Rise: This part said that the captive orcs rallied behind their new warchief when he showed them the power of their shamanistic roots, but Thrall wasn't warchief at that time so I changed it to refer to the new horde. |
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| − | The foundation of Orgrimmar: This said that Jaina's forces proved their loyality when they helped fight Admiral Proudmoore, but Jaina was the only human who directly stood against him. --[[User:Austin P|Austin P]] 04:56, 1 October 2007 (UTC) |
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| − | :That first might have been information in [[ToD]], in case you haven't read it. --{{User:Sky2042/Sig}} 05:03, 1 October 2007 (UTC) |
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| − | == Gender Discrimination == |
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| − | It says here that orcs don't discriminate by gender, but Cycle of Hatred mentioned that orc females are not allowed in the military. [[User:Lckyluke372|Lckyluke372]] 15:13: 13 October 2007 (UTC) |
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| − | :In-game though you can find female orc guards... Just a matter where lore and game mechanics don't match up. But ya you should probalby add that quote and a citation if you have it.[[User:Baggins|Baggins]] 20:15, 13 October 2007 (UTC) |
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| − | While I personally think that was out of character for Thrall, I thought we were meant to assume that Thrall implimented equality sometime after that conversation with Jaina.--[[User:Austin P|Austin P]] 11:40, 16 October 2007 (UTC) |
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| − | Probably should change it to be safe, but the relationship that Durotan and Draka had with each other talked about sexual equality as a prime trait in a mate. Both he and Draka were fighters. It could just be a slice of how society worked in the Frostwolf Clan. -- [[User:Zexx|Zexx]] 11:44, 23 October 2007 (UTC) |
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| − | I haven't got my books with me, I'm at college in Missouri, they're at home in Georgia. [[User:Lckyluke372|Lckyluke372]] 18:58, 25 October 2007 (UTC) |
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| − | Whatever the case, Draka certainly carried herself like an equal. Remember when she attacked Durotan when he forbade her to met Doomhammer with him?--[[User:Austin P|Austin P]] 16:00, 28 October 2007 (UTC) |
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| − | I think Rise of the Horde implied that it could be different for different clans, however it also depended on specific events. Like the get together between the clans was on fairly equal terms for everyone.[[User:Baggins|Baggins]] 16:12, 28 October 2007 (UTC) |
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| − | This is explained ingame by the character Sergra Darkthorn. Until recently orc women were not able to hold military positions. |
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| − | [[User:Zarnks|Zarnks]] 03:48, 6 November 2007 (UTC) |
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| − | ==Classes== |
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| − | Added the necromancer for the rpg class, since after all, the necromancer artworkd does depict an orc.[[User:Tweak the Whacked|Tweak the Whacked]] 12:03, 21 December 2007 (UTC) |
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| − | == Slavery == |
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| − | I'm pretty sure its illegal. The crimson ring is described as undeground commonly in the comic. Orcs in the books and games often express disgust for slavery. |
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| − | [[User:Zarnks|Zarnks]] 23:42, 26 December 2007 (UTC) |
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| − | I'm going to delete it if there are no complaints. |
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| − | [[User:Zarnks|Zarnks]] 08:46, 27 December 2007 (UTC) |
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| − | I'm going to do a little research. I remeber thinking the same but recently something gave me pause over the matter. I don't think this is going to be a black or white matter, but something dealin with shades of gray.{{User:Warthok/Sig}} 09:05, 27 December 2007 (UTC) |
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| − | I think it should be noted that humans practiced slavery too. Infact I'd be surprised if it wasn't a common practice on azeroth.[[User:Tweak the Whacked|Tweak the Whacked]] 09:44, 27 December 2007 (UTC) |
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| − | :Khadgar specifically mentions in TLG that humans don't take slaves (page 260), although Garona points out that they probably do, they just call them something else. Warthok is right about shades of grey- even if orcs took slaves, and referred to them as such (which they at least did in the past), orc slaves might be better treated than whatever the equivalent in human society, even if the word has been wiped out altogether. --[[User:Ragestorm|<span style="border-bottom:1px dotted; cursor:help;" title="Admin">Ragestorm</span>]] <small>([[User talk:Ragestorm|talk]] · [[Special:Contributions/Ragestorm|contr]])</small> 17:11, 27 December 2007 (UTC) |
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| − | ::Human "slaves" are most likely indentured servents. Not actualy slaves but as good as well. Peons are supposedly free now, but slavery doesnt seem to be entirely absent and not an uncommon practice. Certainly the presence of Reghar's team training in the middle of Orgrimmar and being kept in cages shows that, not to meantion Bloodeye's popularity. I think this most likely a issue with an official stance (illegal or heavily discouaged) and a different real situation (slavery still being practiced occassionaly). Thrall may realize theres only so much influence he can allot and turn a blind eye to the gladitorial slaves. |
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| − | ::The Crimson Ring (and the matches at Dire Maul) is described as an underground gladitorial circuit, but not gladitorialism itself (Many gladiators are NOT slaves). Underground '''heavily''' implies illegal, but isn't absolute. Possibly the methods the Crimson Ring uses (lethal force, slaves) are what makes it illegal, if it is. Gladitoralism itself i believed is practiced openly in the valley of strenght so i don't think that it's illegal. I'll need to see a source for the slavery bit (there is no hidden riches quest), is it discouraged? has regulations? or has Thrall entirely outlawed it in all shapes and forms? Thrall insuring no orc fell into slavery may have meant of humans. |
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| − | ::Regardless of any of this, whether slavery is illegal/legal/discouraged/encouraged/non-existant/etc... it is a reality for the horde and under no circumstance should the section be deleted Zarnks. Just adjusted for accuracy.{{User:Warthok/Sig}} 17:51, 27 December 2007 (UTC) |
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| − | Now on the topic of slavery, the Blood Elves have leper gnome slaves, so does the Horde care since the lepers are a sub-race, or do they just not know? |
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| − | [[Image:IconSmall HighElf Male.gif]]<span |
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| − | style="padding:0px; margin-left:0px; font-size:85%;">'''[[User:Mr.X8|<span style="color:#FF0000; cursor:hand" title="Welcome to My Nightmare..."> Mr.X8</span>]]'''</span><span style="padding:1px; font-size:85%;"> [[User talk:Mr.X8|<font color="#DEB887" title="If you're going to bother me, you better have a good reason...">Talk</font>]] [[Special:Contributions/Mr.X8|<font color="#000000" title="Don't think of it as spam, think of it as me spreading my teachings">Contribs</font>]]</span> 19:28, 27 December 2007 (UTC) |
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| − | Its possible they don't know. They're kept underground and hidden.[[User:Tweak the Whacked|Tweak the Whacked]] 19:33, 27 December 2007 (UTC) |
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| − | :Its likely they don't know (By they i mean Thrall), or if they do can do little about it. The Horde may recognize Thrall as it's true leader but lets face it, races such as the forsaken and blood elves are not entirely under his control. With the issues of orc/horde law it seems more relevent to orc, troll, and tauren. And again theres a difference between official law and wha is actual reinforced.{{User:Warthok/Sig}} 19:44, 27 December 2007 (UTC) |
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| − | ::And this round goes to: Warthok!--[[User:Ragestorm|<span style="border-bottom:1px dotted; cursor:help;" title="Admin">Ragestorm</span>]] <small>([[User talk:Ragestorm|talk]] · [[Special:Contributions/Ragestorm|contr]])</small> 23:42, 27 December 2007 (UTC) |
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| − | Orcs have critisized slavery in Lord of the Clans,Cycle of Hatred,and in the Syndicate questline. They are at least opposed to orc slavery Gladitorial tournaments are shown to be legal. Most of the comic likely takes place in the Ogrimmar's criminal underbelly at its a huge city. But there is no official word. |
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| − | [[User:Zarnks|Zarnks]] 01:43, 28 December 2007 (UTC) |
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| − | :"They" are the orcs involved in those specific encounters. I very much doubt that orcs as a species oppose slavery or any other concept- that just isn't possible. --[[User:Ragestorm|<span style="border-bottom:1px dotted; cursor:help;" title="Admin">Ragestorm</span>]] <small>([[User talk:Ragestorm|talk]] · [[Special:Contributions/Ragestorm|contr]])</small> 01:50, 28 December 2007 (UTC) |
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| − | Well of course not every single orc thinks the same. A large percentage if not the majority obviously hates it. |
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| − | [[User:Zarnks|Zarnks]] 20:05, 29 December 2007 (UTC) |
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| − | The comic hasn't directly confirmed either side yet so it is all speculation at this point. If its going to stay we might as well have one for humans,dwarves,and both types of elves. |
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| − | [[User:Zarnks|Zarnks]] 05:06, 30 December 2007 (UTC) |
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| − | :Fair enough, as long as you can convince me that the citations are relevant, objective and clear. --[[User:Ragestorm|<span style="border-bottom:1px dotted; cursor:help;" title="Admin">Ragestorm</span>]] <small>([[User talk:Ragestorm|talk]] · [[Special:Contributions/Ragestorm|contr]])</small> 05:12, 30 December 2007 (UTC) |
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| − | Well Humans have clearly praticed slavery on ogres and orcs as seen in Lord of the clans. They have also ogres and Furblogs as slaves. Both Blood elves and gnomes have used Leper gnomes as servents in poor working conditions. I think the Highborne night elves might have used slaves. |
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| − | [[User:Zarnks|Zarnks]] 05:22, 30 December 2007 (UTC) |
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| − | :Cite, cite, cite! I also point out that what was seen in LotC were gladiators, not slaves, and internment camps don't count. While a gladitorial institution, in Earth history, usually requires slavery present, the two practices can be completely unrelated. Any human practice would, as stated above, not use the term. --[[User:Ragestorm|<span style="border-bottom:1px dotted; cursor:help;" title="Admin">Ragestorm</span>]] <small>([[User talk:Ragestorm|talk]] · [[Special:Contributions/Ragestorm|contr]])</small> 15:10, 30 December 2007 (UTC) |
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| − | ToD states that the impisioned orcs were used as slave labor on atleast one occasion, building the monument to Lothar. I'd say the gladiators counted, while some of the human prisioners may have been able to buy their freedom, I doubt the ogre, orc, and troll slaves were afforded the same right.[[User:Tweak the Whacked|Tweak the Whacked]] 22:15, 30 December 2007 (UTC) |
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| − | :By ToD, I assume you mean Tides of Darkness? Page number, please? --[[User:Ragestorm|<span style="border-bottom:1px dotted; cursor:help;" title="Admin">Ragestorm</span>]] <small>([[User talk:Ragestorm|talk]] · [[Special:Contributions/Ragestorm|contr]])</small> 14:53, 31 December 2007 (UTC) |
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| − | :: I think it's the last page where Tura and Khad are joking about having statues one day.{{User:Warthok/Sig}} 15:51, 31 December 2007 (UTC) |
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| − | :::Ah, we're on the same page (in this case, quite literally)... to harken back to Garona, however, notice that the term "slave" is not used. --[[User:Ragestorm|<span style="border-bottom:1px dotted; cursor:help;" title="Admin">Ragestorm</span>]] <small>([[User talk:Ragestorm|talk]] · [[Special:Contributions/Ragestorm|contr]])</small> 15:57, 31 December 2007 (UTC) |
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| − | This case takes place well after Garona's statement. And her statement, if anything, reinforces that other races take slaves, they just call them something else. A rose by any other name smells just a sweet, and a slave by any other name is still a slave.[[User:Tweak the Whacked|Tweak the Whacked]] 23:52, 31 December 2007 (UTC) |
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| − | :Weren't the orges slaves to orcs at one time? {{User:Coobra/Sig2}} 01:30, 1 January 2008 (UTC) |
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| − | Ogres and orcs have kept eachother as slaves throughout history, however they joined the old horde willingly, though many were treated as slaves, Gul'dan for instance exploited their low intelligence for manual labor. Others were treated with respect, even as equals.[[User:Tweak the Whacked|Tweak the Whacked]] 02:37, 1 January 2008 (UTC) |
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| − | :<cough>[[Cho'gall]]<cough> I'm not saying that Garona's statement changes the situation, I'm saying that it adds a new headache to the situation. I also think that it's POV to refer consistently refer to slavery when the term isn't used (mentioning that the situation is essentially slavery once or twice is fine). If anyone would like to draft such a section for the humans and submit it for review, I think that would be fine. --[[User:Ragestorm|<span style="border-bottom:1px dotted; cursor:help;" title="Admin">Ragestorm</span>]] <small>([[User talk:Ragestorm|talk]] · [[Special:Contributions/Ragestorm|contr]])</small> 14:40, 1 January 2008 (UTC) |
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Revision as of 14:21, 22 July 2011
Forums: Village pump → Warcraft lore → Infinite dragonflight leader
Yeah, so the new book reveals the true leader if the Infinite Dragonflight. I would like to be reminded what are the rules on spoilers from new lore material? Ya' know, before I spoil it for everybody. --AhotahThunderhorn (talk) 03:44, 21 July 2011 (UTC)
- Someone correct me if im wrong but there was never a set-in-stone policy. I belive we do a two week period but let one of the admins confirm that. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Warthok (talk · contr).
- Multiple exemples (like Bolvar's end, Stormrage book, even Anduin Lother) and a rejected policy have settled the followings:
- Wowpedia is a spoiler zone, when someone comes here he knows what is going to happen
- As a consequence of the previous, there shall not be any spoiler warning (template) in any article
- A 2 week discretion is observed, giving time to read the books (or wait for it because I am a goddam european!)
- I will try to write it properly (eventually)
Loremaster A'noob, Arch Druid of the Noobhoof Clan (talk/contribz) 14:42, 21 July 2011 (UTC)
- Multiple exemples (like Bolvar's end, Stormrage book, even Anduin Lother) and a rejected policy have settled the followings:
- WP:LPS
- Loremaster A'noob, Arch Druid of the Noobhoof Clan (talk/contribz) 15:43, 21 July 2011 (UTC)
- Brashly you have attacked my policies, A'noob! But seriously, why was the older policy removed (not by A'noob) after Forum:Stormrage and spoilers... and then replaced just now?--SWM2448 16:30, 21 July 2011 (UTC)
- I'm assuming, based on the date, that it was removed due to the recall vote rejecting the same spoiler policy that A'noob just put back into place. StarNeptune (talk) 19:01, 21 July 2011 (UTC)
- Brashly you have attacked my policies, A'noob! But seriously, why was the older policy removed (not by A'noob) after Forum:Stormrage and spoilers... and then replaced just now?--SWM2448 16:30, 21 July 2011 (UTC)
- As one of the people who voted to recall the policy, no spoilers should be added before the book is released - which it has been like now since the vote. This is why I deleted the information about the characters from the novel page. A'noob, if you want to put the policy back in, then put a vote for it. We already recalled it once, so it's only fair that you put up a vote to bring it back. --g0urra[T҂C] 19:15, 21 July 2011 (UTC)
- So what does all this policy discussion ultimately come to? Is it okay for me to reveal the leader on not?AhotahThunderhorn (talk) 01:43, 22 July 2011 (UTC)
- I guess I missed the moment when the "2 week delay" was removed by vote, and thus added it thinking that we were lazy enough to forget its formulation into Policy articles.
- I'll do a vote just to check
- Loremaster A'noob, Arch Druid of the Noobhoof Clan (talk/contribz) 14:06, 22 July 2011 (UTC)
- Your opinions are desired at:
- Spoiler Policy II: the revenge
Loremaster A'noob, Arch Druid of the Noobhoof Clan (talk/contribz) 14:21, 22 July 2011 (UTC)