Talk:Lor'themar Theron

Hey fellas, pic of Lor'Themar theron here : http://picasaweb.google.com/alcaras.argentus/AlcarasAlpha1/photo#4984860705067696146 --Pulyx 07:48, 13 October 2006 (EDT)

Nice, thank you very much. If it's yours, upload it if you can :)

Just did! --Pulyx

If Lor'Themar's supposed character class is a hunter, why does he have a shield? Omacron 22:37, 15 October 2006 (EDT)

Well, he was in the ranger corps, and rangers usually translate to hunters. Most of the NPCs aren't really divided into player classes anyway. Doesn't really matter, but consider that Drek'thar can dual wield, which shamans can't do. --Ragestorm 22:45, 15 October 2006 (EDT)

They can now! Omacron 19:49, 18 October 2006 (EDT)

My best guess is this: the old Ranger Corps was the main army of Quel'Thalas, but included multiple kinds of fighters - although archers predominated, hence the name. Lor'themar must have been a melee fighter by training (possibly one of the lost Blood Elf warriors). Vikingkingq

Huh? What???

"However, he is unaware that Kael'thas has allied himself and the blood elves to Illidan or that Illidan himself serves the Burning Legion."

Er, since when is Illidan voluntarily serving the Legion? From everything I've read, he's trying to AVOID them, Kil'Jaeden in particular.--Illidan Rocks 03:25, 16 October 2006 (EDT)

We're not entirely sure what Kil'jaeden's planning (no one is, that's the point), and nothing about Illidan's alleigance is confirmed. However, that same note means that the sentence should be removed from the article. Since you're still Bookkeeper of the Betrayer, I'll leave it to you. --Ragestorm 11:44, 16 October 2006 (EDT)

Illidan's most recent foray was at the behest of Kil'jaedan. It was unsuccessful, but we've learned nothing that indicates that Illidan has broken free of Kil'jaedan (again). Vikingkingq

Well, last I heard he was hiding from them, which is why he's in Outland in the first place? -- Kirkburn (talk) 13:11, 16 October 2006 (EDT)

Yes, Viking, the Burning Crusade page says "Though he is the undisputed ruler of the ravaged land, Illidan lives in fear that he will be discovered by his powerful enemies - most notably Arthas, the new Lich King, and the remaining Lords of the Burning Legion." Powerful enemies, not masters. That sentence also implies that he's somehow managed to avoid their wrath. I'm sorry, but until we know more, I'm going to take Ragestorm up on his offer and alter the article accordingly. If somebody says something about Illidan being a slave to the Legion when the expansion comes out, or before, I'll have no objections to the statement being put back in.

Illidan's purported desire to avoid the Legion is the basis of my theory on why we'll eventually have to fight Illidan as well.--Illidan Rocks 14:16, 16 October 2006 (EDT)

I read somewhere on a different article here that Kael has alligned with the legion behind Illidans back, so if this is true, then whoever Illidan serves, if he serves anyone, doesnt really matter to this blood elf article. --Nurizeko

Lor'themar Image

Would you like me to find and scan in a better Sunwell trilogy image for the infobox? The only reason I personally don't like the TBC image in the infobox is because his ingame model just uses a variation on generic blood elf 3-d model and is inaccurate to Lor'themar's current artistic represenations/discriptions, as established by Blizzard in the Sunwell Trilogy through Jae Hwan Kim, and Knaak.Baggins 19:39, 15 March 2007 (EDT)

The images in the Sunwell trilogy are not nessesarily direct representations as you claim. Dragons, for example, are not portrayed in direct concordance to actual dragons. The tauren individual in book 2 also does not conform to the body structure usually seen (though this could be explained by his implied age). All images in the manga are just that: manga. They are drawn by Jae Hwan Kim according to the rules and conventions of drawing manga- I've seen dozens of characters that look almost exactly like Kalec in various other manga.

If you're going to discriminate against WoW pics because they are variations on the basic race model, then I must remind you that Tyrande, Jaina, Cairne, Thrall, Staghelm, Fordragon, Lady Prestor, Lord Nefarius, Falstad Wildhammer, Magni Bronzebeard, and most major characters, are just variations on the generic 3-d models of their races. Sylvanas excepted, of course.--Ragestorm (talk · contr) 22:30, 15 March 2007 (EDT)

"Tyrande, Jaina, Cairne, Thrall, Staghelm, Fordragon, Lady Prestor, Lord Nefarius, Falstad Wildhammer, Magni Bronzebeard, and most major characters, are just variations on the generic 3-d models of their races"

I do have a problem with many of those characters, I don't like the use of generic appearances when better artistic represenatiosn exist. In many cases we have artistic renderings in the Wowbox instead of the lame ingame models for those characters if the art exists. This is why I'd rather have artistic rendering for this character as well, especially since it has major differences like missing eye, and scar. Believe me if there was an official white skinned artistic drawing for Velen, I'd be up for it being in wowbox over his "blue" ingame model (unfortunately the only artistic rendering we have for Velen he's still shown to be blue, :p). Another case in point is check out Grom Hellscream's ingame model... One of the most horrible use of generic ingame models... They could have at least converted and used an updated a WC3 model for him, :p... He is an example where we use an artistic rendering (or in this case a cutscene screenshot) over a World of Warcraft rendition. Baggins 23:02, 15 March 2007 (EDT)

In Lor'themar's case, I find the WoW model more unique and aesthetically pleasing than that particular Sunwell image. As for the others, a similar situation arises- the artistic representations made avaliable aren't particularly good. Tyrande, for example, not only has too few representations, but they're not particularly good for a headline image.

This issue deserves soem more discussion on usertalk, but for now, I'm on record against that Sunwell image as the main one. --Ragestorm (talk · contr) 23:58, 15 March 2007 (EDT)

I think there are better images from sunwell that would look better in that spot, more detailed close ups of his face, body, etc.Baggins 00:01, 16 March 2007 (EDT)

I'll rely on you, as I've not yet acquired Ghostlands. From what I've seen, though, it's hard to tell one elf from another in those books. --Ragestorm (talk · contr) 00:02, 16 March 2007 (EDT)

Also I think its not just the face, but also details of the clothes that individualizes characters. So any artistic drawings should also show-off what a character wears in easy to see view, in order to be best possible choices for wowbox use.Baggins 01:29, 16 March 2007 (EDT)

This is called WoW Wiki, World of Warcraft is the major subject for this game, and the major medium by which people who read this wiki will come across the lore and characters, as such I vote in favour of keeping the WoW screenshot. He exists in the game, and that is how he appears, as such, wether you like it or not that is his likeness in the game and is a valid, neigh, required image. My 2 cents. --Nurizeko

This isn't about removing the image, it's about which goes in the wowbox. User:Kirkburn/Sig2 09:42, 5 April 2007 (EDT)

I've said it before, and I'll say it again: if the drawn image is an eyesore, and the WoW shot is nice, use the friggin' WoW shot! Personally, I like the current Lor'themar pic, though. --Ragestorm (talk · contr) 10:12, 5 April 2007 (EDT)

No unique quotes, huh?

They were able to give Velen his own quotes, but nothing for Lor'themar. Is it just me or does it seem like Blizzard did a lot more for the Draenei than for the Blood Elves, perhaps intentionally? I'm also thinking about the cool starting quests Draenei have where they can ride an elekk and shapeshift, with the Blood Elves not having anything like that. It seems like the Horde gets no love from the makers of this game sometimes. Oh, almost forgot, there's the fact that BE pallies get a polearm from the quest that's inferior to the mace Alliance pallies receive.--Illidan Rocks 09:14, 20 May 2007 (UTC)

Blood elves got their own manga, they got the awesome quest where Sylvanas sings, and will get additional zones to grow up in (Sunwell Plateau). Blizzard has stated innumerable times that they do not favor either faction over the other, so give it a rest. ----  Varghedin  talk / contribs 10:17, 20 May 2007 (UTC)

There's also the fact that I just discovered I was mistaken about Velen. I went to visit him a minute ago and he didn't say anything I haven't heard a zillion other times from other draenei NPCs. Still, those other two things bug me a little bit.--Illidan Rocks 14:16, 20 May 2007 (UTC)

I'm sure Blizzard was making the finishing touches before shipping the game and some guy went, "hey we need to make a level 20 quest for Blood Elves! :D", some other guy was like, "oh crap, let's just give them a spear we'll fix it later..." and it'll be fixed later or something. In the meantime it gives Blood Knights a neat "stereotype" weapon. --Super Bhaal 19:55, 6 July 2007 (UTC)

Lor'themar's role within the game itself is seriously under-developed. Blood Elf leaders are total unknowns, no one knows who they are and there is simply too little in-game lore to teach people about their stories. Velen is very well known compared to Lor'themar. Most people in both the Horde and Alliance don't even know who the heck Lor'themar Theron is. Oh the bright side, we got the Shrine of Mankirk's Wife... --Invin Dranoel 14:13, 14 September 2007 (UTC)

Theron's got a "toy"?

Is it just me or has Theron finally got himself a toy - a weapon? When I went to see him today I noticed that he now has this long, two-headed blade. When did he get it? Regards, --Theron the Just 13:00, 14 June 2007 (UTC)

Capital T in Themar

Like Kel'Thuzad, and unlike Kael'thas, The T in Lor'Themar is capitalised in-game. Perhaps we should move this article to Lor'Themar Theron. I will correct the ones in article. --Raze 03:27, 30 July 2007 (UTC)

Can counsel cite precedent? --Ragestorm (talk · contr) 03:37, 30 July 2007 (UTC)

It's in the naming policy, Rage. --Sky (t · c · w) 03:40, 30 July 2007 (UTC)

What was it in the manga?Baggins 03:59, 30 July 2007 (UTC)

Ok' i'm pretty sure its "Lor'themar Theron in the Manga, its also spelled that way on the TBC Blood Elves lore page.[[1]] It's been a while since I messed around with Blood Elf quests, but I seem to remember there being references to "Lor'themar Theron" too. What could this mean for the NPC himself? Perhaps there was a typographical error by who ever put the name on the NPC...Baggins 04:06, 30 July 2007 (UTC)

Yep lower case in the item, "Letter from Lor'themar Theron" [2]

Yep, I'm pretty sure that his npc name is flawed, as the game itself spells it lower-case in the lore items and quest text.

I suggest using the correct spelling of "Lor'themar spelling for main stuff in the article and limiting the strange use of uppercase T to the title only (then start sending out complaints to the GMs letting them know of the mispelling, LOL).Baggins 04:10, 30 July 2007 (UTC)

Agreed. :) --Raze 04:22, 30 July 2007 (UTC)

Found the quest where you get the Letter; Quest:Envoy to the Horde.

Yep also spells it the normal way, not the strange upper case T way. I'd say the NPC name is definitely a strange typographical error.Baggins 04:26, 30 July 2007 (UTC)

Blizzard appears to have fixed that minor error, as the T is now lower-case. --Joshmaul 11:08, 11 September 2007 (UTC)

Past and present Warcraft Universe characters

Shouldn't he be added? Zarnks 05:36, 14 August 2007 (UTC)

He's now added as well as Balnazzar Dakovski 12:41, 20 August 2007 (UTC)

Character Class

His TCG card says Lor'themar is a paladin. Perhaps he used to train as a ranger and now trains as a blood knight? Egrem 18:40, 22 August 2007 (UTC)

http://www.wowtcgdb.com/carddetail.aspx?id=955

Another typo. Zarnks 21:50, 23 August 2007 (UTC)

Nothing in that page suggests that it's a typo. In fact, that information firmly believes he's a paladin. You appear to be under the impression that "TGC class" means "typographical error." I also remind you that a typo isn't listing the wrong class, a typo would be misspelling the class. --Ragestorm (talk · contr) 21:54, 23 August 2007 (UTC)

Where does it say he's a paladin? Mr.X8 01:07, 25 August 2007 (UTC)

Look at the picture of the card that is linked above - it says Paladin on it. - Aladara 01:36, 25 August 2007 (UTC)

There's nothing to suggest he is a paladin. He is affilated with the Farstriders who don't get along with the Blood knights. Why would he be a paladin for any other then a mistake? Zarnks 05:23, 25 August 2007 (UTC)

Game mechanics. User:Kirkburn/Sig3 05:24, 25 August 2007 (UTC)

If you want to be THAT picky, no blood elf can ever be a paladin *period* because of their misuse of the Light's powers. For the purpose of the card game, Lor'themar is classified as a paladin. As far as I know, nothing that happens in the card game is tied to official lore (though I may be wrong and am content to be corrected on that issue). - Aladara 13:03, 25 August 2007 (UTC)

Still in the story it is very unlikely that he would become a paladin. Zarnks 05:30, 25 August 2007 (UTC)

I didn't say it wasn't :) User:Kirkburn/Sig3 06:31, 25 August 2007 (UTC)

Someone on the White Wolf forums said that the trading card people and White Wolf learn about the stuff that'll happen in WoW long before we do ( for example, while we were still begging Blizzard to make pandaren an Alliance race they knew draenei were going to be it ) so they can get a head start on their projects. My guess is that Lor'themar Theron was originally supposed to be a member of the Silver Hand, then that got scrapped and they made the card before the fact or something. Never heard of his abilities. Anyone who likes jumping faction leaders know? --Super Bhaal 14:31, 25 August 2007 (UTC)

Why should he still be affiliated with the Farstriders? He isn't their leader anymore. Being the regent of Silvermoon, it would even make sense for him to be amongst the first to become one of the new Blood Knights who are portrayed as saviors of the Sin'dorei by Kael's propaganda. --Tulon 14:22, 22 September 2007

I know it said paladin on his sheet aladara, I just said I though that was strange Mr.X8 21:00, 29 August 2007 (UTC)

Well in-game he doesn't have any paladin spells,in fact most of his abilities are warrior based........except his Mana Burn this is the only spell he got(Marakanis)

At his caharter class shouldn't it include Warrior aswell since in-game most of his abilities are warrior based(Marakanis)

We try not to "presume" classes based on in-game skills, and stick only to the citable specified classes. This is because a character can be given specific abilities in-game for gameplay reasons, but that doesn't necessarily make them a member of that class. Additionally lore wise those abilites may be shared with more than just the in-game class. A good example would be the removed [Detect Magic].Baggins 21:50, 1 December 2007 (UTC)

Y'know he could just be a warrior. warriors can wield sheilds, swords and bows. --Taurenchick484

Council Members

Who are the 4 council members in the main page's artcle. I know two of them have got to be Lor'themar and Rommath Mr.X8 23:18, 27 September 2007 (UTC)

I can't find the reference to four council members (I'm probably not reading closely enough), but I'd bet almost anything that Halduron Brightwing is one of them. - Aladara 01:17, 28 September 2007 (UTC)

Here's the pic

File:Lor'themar.jpg

Mr.X8 17:49, 29 September 2007 (UTC)

Hmm... I don't recognize any of them. That's the picture from his card in the WoW card game, though, so it may not mean much. - Aladara 18:31, 29 September 2007 (UTC)

Unique Quotes

It refers to him as the only racial leader without a set of unique quotes. Isn't Bolvar counted as a racial leader? If so, this makes this comment untrue, Bolvar does not have unique quotes either.Alliance mage 09:25, 30 September 2007 (UTC)

Althuough technically Anduin Wrynn is the "racial leader", he's just not killable. But that's why Anduin has the unique voice.Baggins 17:20, 24 October 2007 (UTC)

Well then why do we count him as the only pre-BC leader without a unique voice? I mean as you said above, the real leader has one.   Mr.X8 Talk Contribs 15:55, 26 February 2008 (UTC)

Sword?

Just something I noticed... in his in-game picture he's missing his sword... I remember seeing it in nearly all of his screenshots except this one... should someone take a new picture of him?--Blayaden 16:06, 31 March 2008 (UTC)

Question

I haven't read the sunwell trilogy is he basically a good guy? Lckyluke372 (talk) 03:35, 22 May 2008 (UTC)

I'll cut through all the "depends how you look at it, matter of opinion, bias, etc..." and say yea, he's a good guy. Warthok Talk Contribs 04:26, 22 May 2008 (UTC)

That's what I'd heard, Thanks. Lckyluke372 (talk) 18:03, 23 May 2008 (UTC)

I heard he's kind of arrogant , and thinks too high of himself but I guess he still is a good guy , just ignore his drama (Marakanis (talk) 22:33, 28 May 2008 (UTC))

It will also be interesting to see if he will still be the leader of the Blood Elves after Kael has been dealt with. Exciting times!  :) Warchiefthrall (talk) 22:39, 28 May 2008 (UTC)

Remain strong. Kael'thas will -- error -- Lor'thermar will lead you to power and glory!.--SWM2448 22:41, 28 May 2008 (UTC)

Err... who else would be leading the blood elves after Kael is destroyed? Zul'jin? --Ragestorm (talk · contr) 04:06, 29 May 2008 (UTC)

Well I'd assume they'd reform the Silver Circle, which Lor'themar would no doubt be a part of.Tweak the Whacked (talk) 04:32, 29 May 2008 (UTC)

Lack of Involvement in Quel'Danas

Hookay... here is the deal. The Sunwell Manga ends with Lor'themar Theron agreeing to take care of Anveena. I know Kael'thas, being the over-powered Elven Mage and prince he is, could easily deal with dear Mr Theron and spirit away with Anveena. Thing is, why is Lor'themar not at all referenced or involved in the Shattered Sun Offensive? Lady Liadrin is involved, I know... maybe representing Lor'themar... maybe... But shouldn't Lor'themar be giving some quests or something for Quel'Danas or at least say something about the Sunwell Plateu? I mean... He has a commitment to Anveena and the Sunwell right?! --Invin Dranoel (talk) 14:30, 3 June 2008 (UTC)

He is not a Ranger-General of Silvermoon

Can someone source that he is a ranger general. I have rereaded Tides of Darkness and nothing is said; in page 228 as says the article it is told "Lor'themar Theron one of our finest rangers.", that doesn't mean he is ranger-general. The burning crusade website doesn't tell anything about Lor'themar being a ranger-general. Even Dark Factions told us that after Sylvanas death Hauldron became the general-ranger. In the warcraft encyclopedia in this article [3] it is told that Lor'themar was Sylvanas second in command but it is never told that he became the ranger-general. What I think is that Lor'themar being a Ranger-General is pure speculation and we should do a major correction. Benitoperezgaldos (talk) 03:47, 3 December 2008 (UTC)

I can't recall off the top of my head, but try the Sunwell Trilogy. I'm pretty sure it's been sourced somewhere.--Ragestorm (talk · contr) 18:27, 3 December 2008 (UTC)

I have read the ghostland chapter of the sunwell trilogy and nothing, it just tell that he was "a commander of the rangers". He also mentions that sylvanas was the ranger-general but he doesn't tell he got that rank after her death. The website that is cited that he preceded hauldron [4] doesn't tell either. It is only told: "Lor’themar Theron, Sylvanas Windrunner’s second–in–command, assumed temporary leadership of the high elves" Note that it says the high elves, not the farstraiders nor it is told he gained that rank. For example Anestarian was king and leader of the high elves but he wasn't the ranger-general. Benitoperezgaldos (talk) 20:42, 3 December 2008 (UTC)

Is he a placeholder for a new leader?

Could Lor'themar be a placeholder for a different Blood Elf that will be lead the Blood Elves? Like Bolvar, he was Regent of Stormwind and he recently got replaced by Varian. well Lor'themar is Regent of Silvermoon city. Quite possible he'll be replaced with someone with a good model and unique phrases.

And before u say, but Kael'Thas is Lord of the Blood Elves and hes not gonna be a racial leader for the horde, i want to point out that i understand that. But u got to admit that this guy hasnt really done much and mostly likly someones gonna replace him. Any ideas who might? --Sig:User: Maelstrong 20:02, 19 December 2008 (UTC)

I honestly agree with you that he's either going to get a new model or someone is going to replace him. As for who's going to replace him I'm not sure. Probably Liadrin as there are no other notable Blood Elves who else could replace him.SuperN (talk) 20:15, 19 December 2008 (UTC)

Yeah thats what I thought, Liadrins the only Noteable Blood Elf that was involved with the Sunwell event and is a lvl ?? Boss, but she still need back up as to why she would become the racial leader of the Blood Elves.==--Sig:User: Maelstrong 00:19, 20 December 2008 (UTC)

I'm sorry I don't understand. Why would she need back up to become the racial leader?SuperN (talk) 00:40, 20 December 2008 (UTC)

Or most likely, he'll remain the racial leader, and possibly get a new model and phrases- remember how long it took them to change Sylvanas? If we're lucky, they might throw in a mediocre novel expanding his backtory or something.

Non-editorial discussion, blah, blah, blah --Ragestorm (talk · contr) 05:35, 22 December 2008 (UTC)

Wow, thats a better way to put it then how i was going to say it Ragestorm.--Sig:User: Maelstrong 19:06, 22 December 2008 (UTC)

We´re just waiting for Theron dynasty...Noobi666 (talk) 21:27, 29 December 2008 (UTC)

I personaly would like to see Lor'themar get a better model and backstory and become King of the Blood elves. Liadrin+Queen of the Blood elves=Disaster. remember, the Ranger general is STILL THERE. So instead of the usual "blah blah blah balh" it'll turn into "F*** YOU YOU FU****ING FARSTRIDER B*****!" Blood knights are suposed to hate Farstriders and the same is with Farstriders. - Taurenchick484 (talk · contr)

Ahh, man. You've no idea how much I hope Lor'themar gets replaced. He doesn't have much of anything going for him lore-wise and his model doesn't look very leader-ish. Not to mention that he has a regular blood elf's voice. I'm rooting for either Lady Liadrin or Grand Magister Rommath. Sebreth (talk) 04:46, November 25, 2009 (UTC)

Hmm...well, Liadrin had a unique voice in the Sunwell event. I'm rooting for her. She or the next guy'll probably show everyone that the blood elves of Azeroth (...that aren't otherwise engaged) have totally resigned from the Kael'thas Sunstrider Fanclub and aren't as dangerous and scary as everyone thought they were. That, or they'll either get some heretofore unknown member of either the Sunstrider or Windrunner houses, or any number of people who have successfully filled out job applications and passed their interviews. Or we might end up stuck with Lor'themar Theron for all eternity. I'm not about to complain, he has a neat-looking weapon! --Super Bhaal (talk) 06:55, November 25, 2009 (UTC)

I want him to be Leader but he has to get a better back story and a better model for that to happen, and that may be impossible.-Taurenchick484

Quel'dalar

It should be worth noting Lor'themar's presence during the restoration of Quel'dalar. It is known he attempts to take Quel'dalar when playing as an alliance player only to be rejected by the sword, if someone could find out if Lor'themar does the same for horde players then we could add it to his article under a new WOTLK section. Same goes for Grand Magister Rommath--Saphiredragon89 (talk) 03:31, November 25, 2009 (UTC)

For real? I never knew-Taurenchick484

Blood or High?

Arent the blood elves caled like that not only to pay tribute ,but also becouse they still were trying to get magic(led by Kael'thas) so they eye color changed?Those who stoped getting magic still have blue eyes(and still are high elven kind) ,but i dont remember Lor'themal following Kael'thas

Um... I'm sorry, this is kinda... odd... 1. Becoming a "blood elf" is kinda permenant for the most part. 2. Most sin'dorei didn't follow Kael through the dark portal. Lor'themar stayed behind to try and reclaim what was left of Quel'thelas from the scourge. 3. He's currently the official racial leader for the (playable) Blood Elves, is reffered to as one, has declared himself to be one, and 4. If he was a high elf, then the ENTIRE (playable) RACE would be high elves, and its pretty clear that they're not.--Blayaden (talk) 17:01, January 24, 2010 (UTC)