Talk:Leoroxx

So he mated an ... Ogre female ?--K ) (talk) 11:38, 28 January 2007 (EST)

Yes, he did. Seems possible, as there are loads of ogres around Nagrand and Blade's Edge Mountains. --Tinkerer 11:41, 28 January 2007 (EST)

Yeah, I know, but we still don't see Ogre females, right ?--K ) (talk) 12:26, 28 January 2007 (EST)

Wait, this doesnt make sense. If hes already half ogre and his wife was an ogre,Rexxar would be 3 quarters ogre and 1 quarter orc which wouldnt make him a half ogre Mr.X8 19:58, 30 May 2007 (UTC)

Hey, it used to say that he was an Orc! WTF?--K ) (talk) 20:32, 30 May 2007 (UTC)

No, where did it say that Rexxar was an orc, he has been "half-breed" since The Frozen Throne.Baggins 01:20, 7 June 2007 (UTC)

Oh sorry, I could have used a little more accuracy. I was talking about Leoroxx, who was said to be an Orc at the beginning. Not Rexxar.--K ) (talk) 07:26, 7 June 2007 (UTC)

Oh, where was Leoroxx said to be an orc?Baggins 07:28, 7 June 2007 (UTC)

Now I'm watching the history... Nowhere. But he looks like an orc (Mag'har), and his model differs vastly from Rexxar's.--K ) (talk) 11:12, 8 June 2007 (UTC)

I think what we missed it that Leoroxx is a half-ogre and Rexxar is a half-ogre, logically Leoroxx's mate would also be a half-ogre, and probably a member of the clan. BraveFoot 19:44, 18 June 2007 (UTC)

The point is: how do we know Leoroxx is a half-ogre?--K ) (talk) 19:46, 18 June 2007 (UTC)

Oh, based on the model this thread makes scence now. Is Rexxar second generation half-ogre or not? Um... Leo is in the Mok'nathal clan?--SWM2448 19:50, 18 June 2007 (UTC)

He could be as the founder of the Clan, or just a friend or the Clan.--K ) (talk) 09:48, 19 June 2007 (UTC)

Guys, guys. Rexxar has a *unique* model. All the other Mok'Nathal use the Mag'har skin - there's simply no generic Mok'Nathal model at this time, sadly. So since the villagers of Mok'Nathal Village identify themselves as Mok'Nathal, that's what they are, whether they look like Mag'har or not. Rexxar could be second generation Mok'Nathal, or he could be 43rd generation - we don't know that. All we know is that his father is Mok'Nathal, and presumably also his mother. ----  Varghedin  talk / contribs 11:23, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

I'd have to go look into it but I think there is at least one source that implies that at least one of his parents is full-blooded orc. But I don't know for sure.Baggins 12:26, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

Oh on further research, Cycle of Hatred even claims that not all members of the Mok'Nathal Clan were born of orc and ogre blood. This would imply that some were likely full-blooded ogre, or full-blooded orc. I'm not sure how this would treat Leoroxx. Was he specifically said to be half-ogre in the game? Cause otherwise he could be full orc.Baggins 18:41, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

If all Mok'Nathal are born of Orc and Ogre, then is it too much to assume offspring of first generation Mok'Nathal to be something else? I'm thinking that only first gen. Mok'Nathal have the true orc/ogre mix of blood if Leoroxx claims he is part of the clan and in fact Rexxar's parents were either both Mok or one was Mok and another was orc/ogre. It's debatable. I know I wrote a good portion of this article but I've not actually seen the entirety of the quest dialogue myself where Leoroxx claims he is the father. I think it's safe to keep his race as "Presumed". --Magnus 22:14, 24 June 2007 (UTC)

Not all members of Mok'Nathal are born of Orc and Ogre blood according to Cycle of Hatred, that would certainly imply that some members are full-blooded ogres, and others full-blooded orcs.Baggins 22:38, 24 June 2007 (UTC)

It may not be apparent in the screenshots, but while Leoroxx and the other Mok'Nathal look like Mag'har, they're twice as large. It's safe to assume that he (and the rest of his village) are half-orc/half-ogre (and that the Mok'Nathal breed amongst themselves now). Egrem 23:40, 21 October 2007 (UTC)

Due to scale issues in-game size of characters or race is not reliable way of telling what a race is. Especially in lore races sizes can vary quite a bit. Infact in the lore the range for half-ogres and orcs is pretty close, about 7-9 feet for both races. Until a source confirms what Leoroxx is specifically, we are still left with speculation on the matter. Also considering that Mok'nathal are said include more than just half-ogres we can't ignore the possiblity of them being orcs as well. We do know they are not Mag'har however. Baggins 23:47, 21 October 2007 (UTC)

It's usually only leaders and bosses that are enlarged. It's not just Leoroxx here - all the Mok'Nathal in the village (including the guards and vendors) are notably larger than any of the Mag'har in the game. Egrem 02:58, 22 October 2007 (UTC)

They definitely aren't Mag'har, they are the "Mok'nathal" we know almost next to nothing about Mok'nathal before TBC, just that they are made up of more than just half-ogres. We have very little idea how their clan as a whole compared to members of other clans. We do know that in according to some lore some orc clans had larger individuals on average than average for orcs of other clans. But we have such little information on size of Mok'nathal clan in particular. We only have the lore for Half-ogres in the RPG which places their range as overlapping most orcs, with the largest only a few inches larger than the largest orcs.Baggins 03:01, 22 October 2007 (UTC)

Point of note, Cycle of Hatred, pg 100 implies that Rexxar's mother was an orc, not an ogre. If so then it is more likely that leoroxx is a half-ogre rather than an orc.Baggins (talk) 17:52, 2 October 2008 (UTC)

I can't remember the exact page, but I remember a part of Beyond the Dark Portal that suggests that Leoroxx is a half-ogre. As for scale issues, mag'har ingame are larger than the standard orc model, though not by much, while in lore mag'har would be smaller than the green skinned orcs. The Mok'Nathal, however, are more than twice as tall than the Mag'har or a standard orc, and are universally huge. Again, while ingame scale can't be taken as an accurate representation of size, lore does state that half ogres could look like giant orcs as opposed to small ogres, and the orc model is more versital in that it cah be equipped with various armor where as the ogre can't. On a side note, every piece of art I've seen of half ogres have a body shape closer to orcs than ogres, being more top heavy as opposed to ogres who have most of the bulk in their gut, not their chest.Tweak the Whacked (talk) 18:38, 2 October 2008 (UTC)

I just recently read through the Cycle of Hatred, and only found one page where it specifically refers to his mother. Page 100. He talks about her, but the paragraph puts her in with orc race, and the troubles they were put under throught he their demonic masters. That is the paragraph is about orcs, not half-ogres.

"...There were still many dozen of orcs visible through the gates, engaged in the day-to-day business of life...Since coming to this world, his mother's people had been cursed tools of Gul'dan's demonic masters or broken slaves of their human enemies. If orcs were to live in this world, better it be on their own terms."Template:Cite

In other words, the paragraph was not about half-ogres but about orcs.

As for Leoroxx's reference in BtDP, i'll see if I can hunt it down.Baggins (talk) 18:55, 2 October 2008 (UTC)

Ok, its page 401-402. It discusses the "mok'nathal clan" (actualy spells it lower case), then resorts to using mok'nathal lower case to represent the people of the clan, and talks about his clan's people. It doesn't use the term half-ogre anywhere during the paragraphs. It could imply half-ogres or it could imply people of the clan... Its rather vague... If was the rpg the use of "mok'nathal" lower cas3e would suggest that his father was half-ogre... but the working of the clan being described as the mok'nathal makes it somewhat ambiguous. Also considering the fact we know the clan is not made up of only half-ogres.Baggins (talk) 19:07, 2 October 2008 (UTC)

I think its interesting to note that BtDP has an even stranger situation, the first half of hte book describes Rexxar as a "half-ogre", the last half of the book describes him as a "half-orc". Now, there might be some overlap but it does seem to be split like that.Baggins (talk) 22:38, 2 October 2008 (UTC)