Talk:Half-orc

Dungeons and Dragons origin

The pencil-and-paper Warcraft RPG has a definition of half-orc which is not canon and counter-intuitive. In the RPG, Half-Orc always refers to offspring of a Human and an Orc. In most cases Half-Orcs were created during the first or second war by raiding Orcs(under the bloodhaze) or certain Humans(with a sadistic streak) when the Orcs were held in the internment camps. This very narrow definition is part of the Dungeons and Dragons legacy from whence the RPG was produced. In Dungeons and Dragons, Orcs are portrayed as retarded subhumans. Wizards of the Coast did not have a good conception of the Warcraft Universe, so ignorantly negated the possibility of Rexxar being a Half-Orc. In Dungeons and Dragons Ogres and Orcs are goblinoids, so they are considered part of the same macro-race. -- DarkTichondrias 01:36, 14 May 2006 (EDT)

That is your opinion(you have right to that opinion), and its duely noted. However it has not been stated by blizzard and must be left out of the topic to maintain Neutral Point of View. The RPG warning is in place to warn people who may choose to ignore the RPG. Going by the game is a bad sense of scale as well based on the fact that the world is only the size of a small town in the middle california, its incredibly unrealistic world(you don't see every character that was ever established in other games and novels in that world), nor do you see every character or location that shows up in the spinoff literature.

However according to metzen;

We're taking the process of building a world seriously and it wasn't just churned out. It had a strong sense of continuity. We've always tried to do that with are ancillary products like the D&D line and our novels. We are kind of painstakenly anal, about making sure all the details add up, that continuity is held to be sacred. So that no matter in what medium you are experiencing warcraft it all feels like a contiguous experiance."

-Chris Metzen, World of Warcraft, Behind the Scenes DVD.Baggins 01:54, 14 May 2006 (EDT)

Goblinoid is not a contradiction

Importantly there is no contridiction with the term Goblinoid, it does not mean common "racial" origin of goblin, it simply means races that share certain similarities with goblin race. Its just like how the term Humanoid does not mean they have a common racial heritage of "human" race, instead it just means they share similar physical attributes with human race.

Additionally rexxar was never called a Half Orc he was called Half Ogre in TFT. Metzen is behind the use of both of these descriptions, as well as having ultimately in charge of RPG books.Baggins 04:39, 14 May 2006 (EDT)

Rolled back info about Human/Orc mating

Just because you don't believe it to be possible, doesn't mean it isn't. Half-orc doesn't even have to mean half-human/half-orc, it's an ambiguous term. -- Kirkburn (talk) 23:30, 30 September 2006 (EDT)

Piggish vs broad, clean vs. delicate

Piggish and Clean are the account according to the Horde Player's Guide, 2006, not my words. If neutrality is an issue take it up with Blizzard. For that matter delicate really isn't the best choice of words, as they are as strong as orcs.

As for "not as clean as orcs" havne't you seen samwise artwork for orcs, or most artists for that matter? They always seem tho show signs of wear, and scuff marks on clothing and skin, compared to how they draw humans. I don't think that's a neutrality issue just an observation of how they live culturaly.Baggins 22:28, 31 December 2006 (EST)

The horde player's guide is also narrated by Brann Bronzebeard a member of the alliance not a member of the horde. He's bound to have a less then neutral point of view. Piggish is also a very dehumanizing word,it compares orcs to mere beasts. And Orcs generally show signs of wear on their skin and clothes due to their rough living conditions. Those are not neutral terms. Angry ogre

"And Orcs generally show signs of wear on their skin and clothes due to their rough living conditions."

Hence, not as clean. It is completely neutral... Plus its been said that the section of the book in which I actually quoted, was not from Brann Perspective, in the introduction fo the book. His sections of the book don't start until half way in the bookTemplate:Cite. Those discriptions are from the book writers, not Brann.

Please keep the dicussion here.Baggins 14:34, 1 January 2007 (EST)

The writers have always been very pro alliance,look at how they described the darkspear trolls,I doubt an orc would call himself piggish,piggish has always been a very rude term. And too clean to be an orc is pretty much saying orcs are dirty which is also a dehumanizing term.

It never said they were "dirty", but I added in, "in comparison to alliance hygiene standards" to make you happy.Baggins Angry ogre

It sounds like you are a roleplayer from a horde POV. Please keep your opinions out of the topic. I only state what is officially stated by blizzard and do not make my own opinions. Plus the term delicate can also be viewed as a rude term and dehumanizing. It is not very neutral either. I concede that flat and broad is acceptable as it means nearly the same thing as piggish, but delicate is inaccurate entirely.Baggins 14:39, 1 January 2007 (EST)

No I have a relatively neutral Point of view. Anyway maybe delicate is the wrong word but we should use something instead of dirty,after all a human living in the Barrens would be just as dirty as an orc. Angry ogre

I've made a more detailed discripion adding in more qualifiers pointing out that it is from pov of alliance hygiene standards. If it is qualified it is neutral per rules of arguementive writing and debate, and not fallacious.Baggins 14:49, 1 January 2007 (EST)

Age

The "fact" that they live as long as humans, was quoted according to Horde Player's Guide, 2006. The age tables in that book have been altered somewhat over previous books for gameplay balancing. The lore section would have more validity over a gameplay table itself if there is any discrepency, considering the aging table is also tied to dice throws, and player's role playing choices. Plus the fact that actual RPG gameplay gets errata all the time, either as supplemental PDFs or as errata notices in later released books, or on the White Wolf's Website.

However if you do compare tables, there is only about a 3-6 year difference give or take(depending on how your dice roles go) between half-orcs and humans. Hardly enough to say that all half-orcs "live longer" than humans, both fall into the ballpark of being "equivalent" to humans, when considering averages. Baggins 22:34, 31 December 2006 (EST)

Again I must remind that age tables are tied into gameplay mechanics and are not strict lore. Even so the age table given for half-orcs and last errata age table given for humans put them in approximately ballpark of "equivalent" ages. There is no discrepency.Baggins 14:31, 1 January 2007 (EST)