Should we just call Goldrinn a demi-god since he is known by many other races who do not use the word Ancient? Rolandius (talk) 04:45, 27 May 2008 (UTC)

If he was stated to be an Ancient he's an Ancient, regardless of he was revered by other races or not. Practically every single Ancient is revered by more than one race... All Ancients are demi-gods, but not all demi-gods are Ancients.Baggins (talk) 04:38, 27 May 2008 (UTC)
He was stated as an Ancient only in the legend by night elves. Also, I thought Ancient was an elven belief? Rolandius (talk) 04:59, 27 May 2008 (UTC)
Ancient is hardly an elven only belief. Malorne is believed by the Tauren and humans. Agammaggon is revered by quilboar. Ursoc and Ursol are revered by humans, furbolgs, etc, Aviana is revered by many. Xavius is only revered by Satyrs. Azshara is only revered by naga.... All are Ancients, and Eternals, and Demigods by different definitions. It keeps on going and going.Baggins (talk) 04:48, 27 May 2008 (UTC)
I understand that but the Tauren, for example, do not call him an Ancient or even Malorne. They call him Apa'ro in thier version of the legend. Elune is called Earthmother by the Tauren. Agamaggan is not called an ancient by the quillboar but instead a demi-god. The furbolg think Ursoc and Ursol were demi-gods but the elven think of them as Ancients. What I am saying is Goldrinn was probably a demi-god since he was known by so many races. Only the elves call him an ancient. Rolandius (talk) 04:59, 27 May 2008 (UTC)
Its not what the in-universe characters call them but what the published works categorize them as, i.e. the Warcraft designers categorization methods. See Shadows & Light, WoWRPG, and other rpg books for the categories (some degree on the Warcraft Encyclopedia). Eternals are all demigods and some demons, each split into several smaller categories. Ancients is one of the smaller categories under Eternal (actually in the rpg, its hinted that Quilboar may refer to him as the "Eternal Agamaggan" as well). And all Ancients are considered "demigods" according to Shadows & Light.
so its basically the order is like this;
Eternal --> Ancient --> Demigod
Other subcategories under Eternal include, the Dragonflights, the Elemental Lords, and the Titans, etc. All of these are considered demigods or deities or demons, or just super powered beings depending on the subcategory.
Some characters are special cases in some legends Earth Mother is seperate being from Elune. Whereas Elune represents a being in the sky, in some legends Earth Mother represents a being of the earth or the earth itself. But Elune herself is officially categorized under the Ancients subcategory in the official books articles on her. Regardless of who believes in her. Actually the Tauren belief of "Mu'sha" the moon is a closer representation of Elune. Apa'ro and Mu'sha represent Malorne and Elune, and the eyes of the Earth Mother.-Baggins (talk) 05:06, 27 May 2008 (UTC)
I see. I though it went:
Demigod --> Ancient --> Eternal
It can get confusing. I just wanted to put him in the right category. Does the chart above also include power or strength? For instance are eternals seen as more powerful than ancients and ancients more powerful than demigods? Rolandius (talk) 05:19, 27 May 2008 (UTC)

Think of it more this way. Eternal encompasses all things revered by people, gods, demigods, etc or otherwise since before 10,000 years ago essentially (though not necessarily all demons, or every dragon). Only a demons like Kil'Jaeden and Achimonde are considered Eternals, and only the Dragon Aspects themselves.

It has nothing to do with power. Ancients are tied together because they pretty much all had something to do with the War of the Ancients. Dragon Aspects are tied together because well they were guardians of the earth set into power by the Titans basically. Elemental Lords are the most powerful Elementals, ruling a domain of magic. Titans are obvious of course, as the creators of the universe, basically. There hasn't been a book discussing the Old Gods specifically but one would assume they would be Eternals as well, they are implied to be in the Shadows & Light, even though they don't actually get a section of the book. Elune is both an Ancient and a god (she is considered beyond demigod status).

But no it has nothing to do with power for the subcategories. As for Metzen's reason for the term Eternals that can be found at the end of the Eternal article.Baggins (talk) 05:27, 27 May 2008 (UTC)

Ya now I am confused by the title War of the Ancients. In the book why does Cenarius state when he arrives to help that here are the "demigods of Kalimdor—all the demigods" and not here are the Ancients? Like you said, not all demi-gods are Ancients. Rolandius (talk) 05:48, 27 May 2008 (UTC)

All Ancients are demigods. So the introduction is correct. BTW, as I recall the trilogy barely uses the term Ancients, and avoids giving it a definition. The book switches between the terms "guardians" and "demigods" most of the time. Really its not something you have think hard about. The author just favored the term demigod over Ancients. But what showed up were all Ancients.Baggins (talk) 06:01, 27 May 2008 (UTC)
...Or put it this way it was only the Ancients demigods in the War of the Ancients. Titans (a seperate category) weren't there although they are demigods, for example. Hakkar likely wasn't there although he is a demigod.Baggins (talk) 06:07, 27 May 2008 (UTC)
lol I am thinking too much I guess. Sometimes I understand something more when it is a graphical representation like a family tree. Rolandius (talk) 07:16, 27 May 2008 (UTC)

I'd like to use Goldrinn in a story of mine, but I'd like to write the story in my own language that is not English. Usually I translate the names like "Deathclaw", "Sharptalon" etc. into my language, but never abstract names. So, is Goldrinn an abstract name or does it mean something in English? I spotted the word "gold", but the rest is not clear for me (yeah, I know, Goldrinn was white, not golden :P ). My mother tongue is not English. Or is "-rinn" just an abstract ending, like "-mar" in the name "Anvilmar"? --Nuti (talk) 14:31, 31 May 2008 (UTC)

Goldrinn is not English. It is more abstract like Anvilmar. You'd be better off translating "Ghost Wolf" I believe, as that is what the Orcish name, Lo'gosh translates to. ;)Skreeran (talk) 09:12, 14 July 2009 (UTC)

I'm jumping in on this conversation a bit late, but I think you guys are being more confusing than need be. All three are essentially the same thing. Eternal is a more "in-universe friendly" term for any being that is "god-like" (so this includes demi-gods, but also more powerful beings such as the Titans and Elune). Ancient is a Night Elf flavor word for the same thing, though more specifically it's refering to all the demi-gods that fought during the War of the Ancient (which is most of them anyways, at least without getting into the Loa and such). In any case, Lo'Gosh/Goldrinn is an Ancient. He is also a demi-god and an Eternal. But Ancient being slightly more specific is probably the best term to use in the article. In any case, it doesn't really matter. It's all symantics :) --WarlockSoL (talk) 18:21, September 14, 2009 (UTC)

orcish name for a long dead creatureEdit

why does goldrinn have an orcish name, if orcs never met him?--Gorund scr1This is Gorund!Gorund tlk1Talk to me:DGorund cntr1My contributions.Gorund bear1Roar! 21:06, September 8, 2010 (UTC)

In the comics, when they explain the name for Lo'Gosh, Broll says that the Night Elves hold a similar wolf sacred. Theirs being Goldrinn. It was also stated that many, if not all races, hold reverence for some great wolf or another. Lo'Gosh and Goldrinn are not the same. IconSmall FelbloodElf MaleUi-charactercreate-classes warlock Mykael Mourningsun Vae Victis 21:11, September 8, 2010 (UTC)

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