Talk:Garona Halforcen

Halforcen?

Where does this name come from? The RPG? --Fandyllic 7:04 PM PDT 4 Apr 2006

The name comes from "The Last Guardian". Garona states to a roaming patrol of orcs that her name is Garona Halforcen.--DarkAngel ZERO 13:56, 5 April 2006 (EDT)

She actually just says "I am Garona Halforcen." It's possibly just a title which means "half-orc."

It's likely a catch-all name for half-orc offspring, or a nickname that became a surname in time, like Haehalfdanae (Half-Danish) from Beowulf. --Grid 16:02, 10 November 2006 (EST)

Half-Draenei?

Am I the only one that feels that we should remove the first mentioning of Garona as half-draenei on this page? It causes hell on the official forums with the people who don't have the attention to read beyond that and take Cay's word above all.

--Kakwakas 22:15, 17 Jan 2006 (EST)

If they can't handle the truth. they are not worthy of the truth.. i say it stays.. I see no point in censorship just to satisfy some hissy youths on a forum CJ 03:19, 18 Jan 2006 (EST)

I mean they take it for 100% fact that Garona is half-draenei. She may very well not be, according to Metzen. *points to the bottom of the article* --Kakwakas

The comment from Metzen was in relation to a question about if she would be reappearing in the game, not in reference to her race. Plus, she came through the Dark Portal before WC1 even started officially, so she can't possibly be human. Humaniod, yes, but not human. Hence why Draeni seem to be the only possible connection, unless there's some other race of humaniods on Draenor. --DarkAngel ZERO 10:51, 29 March 2006 (EST)

Be on the safe side, and leave it at Metzen's comments (being the Sumpreme Master of Story and Lore of Blizzard, it's all his domain), but make sure the theory is addressed, and hope to see her in Outland Ragestorm, Head Bookkeeper

Anyone have a screen shot of Garona from the Beta? I'd like to see that. --Darkfox190 01:02, 3 Mar 2006 (EST)

It was just a orc model with a full Wicked Leather set on. Nothing special. --DarkAngel ZERO 10:51, 29 March 2006 (EST)

She was actually in the retail version, as well, not just the beta. But she was removed a couple of patches in, and replaced with Myrokos Silentform. Her model in the retail was slightly altered from the one in the beta, but was still a regular orc model. --Nephalim 21 May 2006

Whoever posted the info say that Gorona is half Draenei, and born of rape of Draenei... Nothing has officially established this yet, as is stated in the start of the topic. Unless that info is from a verifiable source it has got to be removed(we do not know if she is half draenei or the product of rape or not). I put up a source needed warning to give people a chance to prove its from an official source, but if no one proves the reliablity of what that section says, it needs to be removed-Baggins 22:21, 11 May 2006 (EDT)

The half-draenei idea was proposed when they were still human-like beings on Draenor, not the "true" Eredar endowed with Light-blessed powers by the Naaru. You'll note that all images stem from her other half being near-human- no sign of the hooves, tails, whiskers, or any of the other key features of Draenei biology. If it stays, some sort of note should be put in, saying that there's no way to know. --Ragestorm 05:57, 12 May 2006 (EDT)

File:Draenai.jpg

Note that the Lost One appears to lack tentacles and a tail and both the Lost One and Broken have their hooves mutated to look more like feet.

Note the fairly human proportions.

We don't know much about Garona's upbringing, but the tentacles and tail could have easily been cut off by herself or whoever raised her, either to protect her from persecution or out of disgust at her Draenai heritage. As for the horns and the hooves, the horns might've been small enough to file down and completely hide with her hair (assuming she inhereted horns at all) and the hooves could've been suppressed by her orc heritage or just hidden in her boots. If she didn't inherit the horns or hooves, lost her tentacles and tail when she was young and never saw a Draenai (or at least not a female Draenai), she would have no reason to suspect she was anything other than half-human. -- [[user:Gordon Ecker|Gordon Ecker]] 17:21, 31 May 2006 (EDT)

Remember that Garona was introduced long before the new lore changes surrounding Draenei. It may be that if and when Garona is re-introduced into the game, her appearance and lore may be retconned in order to fit the new lore. Certainly her appearance I'd wager.--Phoez 12:43, 2 August 2006 (EDT)

Here's some new info I found.

http://wow.warcry.com/news/view/65916-Unadulterated-Awesomeness

That website chronicles Jayne's BC beta adventures in Outland with screenshots. Around the middle he meets a half-orc half-draenei blademaster named Lantresor of the Blade. He's depicted in-game with an orc model. I don't know if it's a placeholder for not, but Turalyon's half-elf son is similarly shown as a blood elf model in-game, although his mother is a high elf. It could just be lazy modeling on the part of the devs, but I guess it's safe to assume that apparently you can get a very human looking - atleast from what we see of Garona in concept art - individuals from a half draenei half orc hybrid.

Garona's physical descriptions have always been very muddled. In Last Guardian she's clearly described with black nails, somewhat leathery skin, a jutting jaw and prominent fangs. In the art we see of her after the one picture we have from WarCraft I, she basically looks like a human female with green skin. But with all this conflicting information, I am dreading another massive trainwreck of lore, like what happened when Chris Metzen created the draenei without even going back to varify with existing storylines.

I don't think the horns or hooves are something that could be "filed". For all the mistakes they made making the draenei, one thing they are is impressively designed. Hooved two-legged creatures with inverted legs would have an EXTREMELY hard time balancing themselves without a tail. Draenei horns also seem to be a natural extension of flesh, or atleast covered in skin somehow.

Also, anything the CMs say regarding lore should be considered canon. Why? Because they work at Blizzard. Period. All the information they get is not something they create themselves - it's all things that the devs tell them to inform the community about.--Grid 12:37, 10 November 2006 (EST)

First War Timeline

The chronology currently on this page says that Garona was commanded by Gul'dan to kill Llane some time after Medivh's death. Is there a source for this? It contradicts the notion that Gul'dan's coma was caused by Medivh's death. --Aeleas 18:46, 4 April 2006 (EDT)

It's hard to tell, really. Each incarnation of the Games and RPG guides keep switching around dates, places, ages, and other stuff. At the moment, I'd say Gul'Dan was probably well enough to give Garona the order to kill Llane.--DarkAngel ZERO 13:57, 5 April 2006 (EDT)

Gul'dan would have been completely incapacitated; he himself recalls that the Necrolytes revived him after the deaths of Llane and Blackhand- Garona could have gotten the orders to execute from the Shadow Council or one of its other leaders (recall the Cho'gall, Nekros, and Teron Gorefiend all advanced well into their circles), not realizing she could save Llane without Gul'dan punishing her. My (not concrete) theory is the Garona wasn't really tortured by Doomhammer- she intentionally betrayed the Shadow Council for revenge. This would fit in with the cryptic comments that imply she is still alive. Ragestorm 18:55, 5 April 2006 (EDT)

Peculiar Disapperances

It's a tad late, so the following paragraph may get slightly long-winded. I apoplogize in advance.

I'm starting to believe Mr. Metzen and the creative staff at Blizzard have no intention of re-introducing Garona into the games. Now, granted, they did say that She was supposed to be very importent to the story of RoC, but was axed near the end of development. I believe Garona's role was supposed to be the one held by Medivh in the actual game. ( Which makes more sense, seeing as Medivh was once possesed by Sargaras, he would know more about the burning legion.)

When World of Warcraft Beta rolls around, I think the Garona character was simply a tease to stir up the rumor mill. The same applies to the comment that she is half-dranei. Personally, I would like very much to see Garona again, and would hate to see them end the character off-screen and the public finding out about it with a comment from someone like, "Oh, yes, I recall hearing that villanous woman went and hung herself after she had slain our beloved king..."

Just a little add-on: If Garona was around Khadgar's true age during the events of the first war (about 17, i believe), What would her age be now? 43? --Zephead 23:47, 13 August 2006 (EDT)

Garona was 17 in Last Guardian, which was about 1 year before the start of warcraft 1, in the original timeline. 26 years later is wow, i believe. so 43 or 44, yes. meaning she would be one crazy good rogue by now!--Haddon 18:20, 12 October 2006 (EDT)

If she is half-draenei, that could mean she might live for centuries. regardless, 44 wouldn't impact her fighting skills at all. --Ragestorm 19:03, 12 October 2006 (EDT)

on the contrary. 44 would impact her fighting skills GREATLY. a 17 year old is just new to it, or fairly new to it. 26 years later, and after being tortured and apparently in hiding for a long time, she would have become absolutely astounding at it. you do anything for 25+years, youre gonna be a lot better at it than you were before--Haddon 00:04, 13 October 2006 (EDT)

I meant that it wouldn't impair her skills at all. --Ragestorm 09:33, 13 October 2006 (EDT)

Half any-other-race-than-Draenei?

Now that we know there are more humanoids on Draenor, this opens up the possibility that Garona might be something other than half-Draenei. My bet's on part Shivan.

Sign your posts. Can't be Shivan, there'd be a major biology retcon.--Ragestorm 19:54, 24 September 2006 (EDT)

She originally was half-human, and in the original timeline, she had enough time to grow to a young woman before the first game (note that the first game isnt the start of the first war, its when it reached a turning point from skirmishes into a real war). medivh in last guardian says "she is half orc, half human. or human-like creature from her homeworld". and to my knowledge, past her retcon, its never been said any 1 way or the other.

One theory of mine in the warcraft movie will be about the events leading up to war3 after war2, and will have her in it--Haddon 23:47, 24 September 2006 (EDT)

From your keys to Metzen's pen. ;-) --Ragestorm 11:31, 25 September 2006 (EDT)

Read the article, it gives the correct time from the warcraft1 manual. she had enough time to become a young woman if born on azeroth right away. it was roughly 15 years later that she killed llane, so it works. however, it was then retconned down to 1 year, as it says. To the best of my knowledge (and searching), metzen has never said what she is, only that he has agreed to the information in Last Guardian, where it states shes half human of human-like from her homeworld. everything written in the novels is checked over by him.--Haddon 13:27, 25 September 2006 (EDT)

I meant your idea bout the movie. --Ragestorm 15:12, 25 September 2006 (EDT)

Yeah, I really do gotta get into the habit of signing my posts. Anyway- Metzen has provided evidence to help cover up plot holes created by retcons (Eredar and Sargeras relation, anyone?), but seemingly not Garona. Wonder why. Omacron 05:28, 9 October 2006 (EDT)

Chris has said "youll just have to wait and see", just as he did with khadgar and alleria and the rest. chances are, he will be putting her in either in this expansion, a patch, or the next expansion. i doubt he would just leave one of his obviously loved characters(hed planned on putting her as a main character for RoC) to never be heard from again--Haddon 18:20, 12 October 2006 (EDT)

Still Human, maybe, maybe not? But definitely not half-draenei?

Oddly enough she's still half-human in Horde Player's guide, 2006, as the book again specifically points out that the definition of half-orc refers to human/orc hybrids. The book is even said to be "Designed with extensive input from the creative minds behind Blizzard’s best-selling Warcraft computer game series". Baggins 04:11, 17 November 2006 (EST)

Then she's just not a Half-Orc :P Saimdusan

Not only does it states that Garona was a half-orc, even further in the book it specifies that the offspring of a orc and draenei is a "Half-draenei", in order to specify things. curious.Baggins 04:30, 17 November 2006 (EST)

Alright we get somewhere, later in the guide it specifically says she's is not a half-dranei, because none of her features match draenei, and that "early on people thought her "half-human" But since she was already a human at that time, it would seem impossible for an orc and a human could have produced her. But non of her features match any other known race but humans. But its Brann's POV(albeit with input from the creative minds behind the games)Baggins 05:04, 17 November 2006 (EST)

While I admit I was greatly looking forward to seeing a half-orc/draenei modeled Garona in the expansion, there is one opportunity for Garona to be half-human: time travel. With all this stuff going on around Nozdormu and his flight at the Caverns of Time, it could easily be put into the story that Garona was born after the orcs and humans started mingling on Azeroth, and was sent back in time to before the opening of the dark portal in order to assassinate Llane or some such. Varghedin, 19:53 CET, Nov 17th 2006

I love hte idea of Time Travel and Caverns of Time. Hell even Alliance Player's guide has an article on a gnomish time machine invented by a gnome that got crystals out of the Caverns. Plenty of plot potential there. Additionally its possible that a humans sent back in time to draenor got stuck there but came in contact with an orc (rape or clandestine love or some such thing) and she was the product of such union, and later comes through the portal. On the other hand she has cryptic thourough knowledge of human culture as well, so the reverse is possible some orc goes back in time to Azeroth and she is born there through clandestine love or rape.Baggins 13:57, 17 November 2006 (EST)

This idea wouldn't need a retcon. It would need a thousand ones. That's why I think Garona is a plain half-Draenei half-Orc and that any other idea is wrong. That's even unlikelier to me than Draenei descending from Eredar.--K ) (talk) 17:19, 17 November 2006 (EST)

I just was reminded of something, there was discussion of great mages including possibly even human ones that may have experienced interplanar travel across the twisting nether, according to the Shadow & LIght sourcebook. It never specifically mentioned at what points in time that explorers got around, or what exact locations they visited, but it may be possible that a great human wizard could have encountered draenor during one of these explorations, and interbred with an orc. That explanation would require no time travel.Baggins 17:24, 17 November 2006 (EST)

Then it would be going against what Metzen said before of there being no contact between humans and orcs prior to the First War.--Grid 17:28, 17 November 2006 (EST)

It never specifies humans were plane shifting before the first war, and for that matter to Draenor itself, so the book does not go against anything previously said. Infact it implies that most humans were only plane shifting after Khadger did his research into exploring other worlds in the cosmos. But things could be changed in future sources, you have to remember this Metzen we are talking about someone that go against things he previously said in the past. Hell it Orcs had never previusly encountered Night Elves before Warcraft II, and yet War of the Ancients has Brox traveling back in time(to a time that had humands mind you, Azotha).

So Metzen could easily have things go differently, by use of time traveler's going to outland, before the first war. It would not contradict what previously was said, just create an alternate timeline. Remember it was said there were no gnomes during the third war, and yet gnomes will be able to take part in the battle of mount hyjal, via Caverns of Time(that is certainly an alternate timeline). BTW, he's creative designer behind the RPG as well, according to the credits, so any ideas have to go through him.Baggins 17:34, 17 November 2006 (EST)

Your comment about plane-shifting sparked this suggesstion: Garona could be the result of a human projecting to Draenor. Which human to we know definetly visited Draenor before the First War?

Could she be Medivh's daughter?--Ragestorm 19:38, 17 November 2006 (EST)

Ooh, I love that idea. We know he was experimenting with portals... We certainly know he was communicating with the Orcs before the first war through the portal. We know he is human... Certainly all elements that could fit together and incorporated into an idea that she is his daughter. Amusing thing is he would never have put two and two together when he finally met her, LOL. Could make for a very nice plot twist.Baggins 20:00, 17 November 2006 (EST)

What makes you think he didn't know? he could have been protecting her from Sargeras, which leads disturbing bit: Medivh's daughter genetically, but guess who's the "spiritual" father?--Ragestorm 20:11, 17 November 2006 (EST)

Heh, heh. Of course, that's if the Medhiv who was talking wasn't Sargeras in the first place ;), either way he could very well be the spiritual father. That begs the question who was in charge of his body when he slept with the orc, ;). There are some interesting ideas submitted in the Alliance and Horde Player's guide that sargeras may have been in full control for years even when it seemed to be Medhiv to those around him, and that the personality may have just been an act to hide his existence.Baggins 20:21, 17 November 2006 (EST)

I wasn't speaking about the book. I was speaking of Chris Metzen's decision of taking her out and deciding not to make her half-human, because in his direct words, he said with the newly established timeline and continuity there was no contact between orcs and humans prior to the breakout of the First War. The Medivh choice does sound interesting, but we know that he only appeared to Gul'Dan as a spectre. From there he led the orc race to Mannoroth through the subtle suggestions of Sargeras. Unless that's changed too.

Perhaps another race lurking that hasn't been introduced yet? Jeff Grubb was smart to be very vague about describing Garona's other half, concluding that whatever the other race was it was very similar to what could've been human.--Grid 01:40, 19 November 2006 (EST)

Granted the term "Near-human" when used in fantasy/scifi traditionally means something that evolved from humans sometime in the distant past, or shares some human-like distant ancestor(progenitator theory for example.). In that they are still close to human but with some unique difference. Technically orcs could fall under that definition of near-human, since they can mate with humans, have a general human physical build, with main differences being different colored skin, and tusk-like canines, and slightly different shaped ears.Baggins 10:22, 19 November 2006 (EST)

It could easily be said that Medivh visited Draenor physically without the knowledge of Gul'dan (though Mannoroth would be hard to fool). If they think it's dramatic enough, one tiny retcon (not so much a retcon as a "it was revealed") is worth it. --Ragestorm 10:36, 19 November 2006 (EST)

But is it possible in the current timeline from when Medivh awoke from his coma to the beginning of the First War? If there is time enough for him to discover Draenor and father Garona it'd be a pretty cool twist.

One of my theories is that the naaru could be the ghosts (ala wisps for night elves) of a near-human race that the orcs slaughtered after the blood pact. I'm banking on being able to discover ruins of the ancient giants that lived Draenor before the time of the orcs and draenei.--Grid 20:46, 19 November 2006 (EST)Insert non-formatted text here

Naaru would have had to be in opposition of the Legion for a significant amount of time prior to helping the Draenei escape Argus, for a minimum of about 26,000 years. I don't think the orcs had even evolved by then, so how could they have slaughtered them. Why do they have to be near-human? move response to Talk:Naaru.--Ragestorm 20:55, 19 November 2006 (EST)

Because Garona herself would have to be something half near-human to look the way she does, unless they found some way to reconcile it like they apparently have done with the half-orc/half-draenei blademaster in BC.

I wasn't aware of the time difference between the naaru helping the draenei till now, so that theory goes out of the window, but it could be possible the naaru have had some sort of ancient connection to Draenor. Such as the reason the draenei chose that particular planet to go to rather than any other.--Grid 00:36, 20 November 2006 (EST)