Talk: Deathwing

Consorts and mating

Hmmm... If he wasn't able to get a female dragon before he was ran off... How were Nefarion and Onyxia born? Kakwakas 21:56, 16 Aug 2005 (EDT)

Possible Nefarian and Onyxia were alive before and Deathwing was just lacking females to mate with... Maibe 15:39, 19 Jul 2006 (EDT)

Deathwing had four consorts at the time of the Sundering- one or two of them are probably the parents of Nefarion and Onyxia- or her could have found another dragon to mate with in the years since. nothing says they were born after Grim Batol, does it?- Ragestorm

I read somewhere he stole a few reds during thre battle of grim battol. This migh explain the odd redish color to some black dragons like teremus and the drakes in BS--Darkling235 01:07, 4 May 2006 (EDT)

Did any one forget Neltharions Alliance with Ner'zhul and his involvement in the events of the Dark Portal? Someone please add that in-OtherHalfofYang

By the time of Day of the Dragon, all female black dragons were dead. However, he managed toescape with a clutch of red dragon eggs. The most probable explanation is that he corrupted these eggs in his own image and thus the corrupted black dragons were born.--Grid 01:28, 21 November 2006 (EST)

Where is it said he actually managed to escape? if it's being assumed that Alextrasza is holding him prisoner, then surely the whole point is that he didn't escape. Anyway, Nefarian (and probably Onyxia, too) are far to large to have been born after the Grim Batol incident.--Ragestorm 09:31, 21 November 2006 (EST)

It doesn't, but the book never says he was caught either. And at the very least, it does not mean he was caught immediately after Rhonin destroyed the Demon Soul. Remember - the entire black flight was utterly annihilated by Deathwing himself in his rage. The only way they could have survived and repopulated was if he managed to find some sort of safe haven, which would be Blackrock Spire.

It could also be possible that he's not another planet entirely gaining new allies.--Grid 13:43, 21 November 2006 (EST)

For those still saying Onyxia and Nefarian hatched from those red eggs: DoD also says Alexstrasza and Korialstrasz wanted to follow the other's in the hunt after the stolen eggs are safe and sound again...--Maibe 07:57, 4 December 2006 (EST)

I think they were referring to the clutch of surviving blue dragon eggs Korialstrasz discovered previously.--Grid 12:31, 4 December 2006 (EST)

Do you mean the red eggs I mentioned? If yes...I think you're wrong, for at the Time DoD was written the idea of the timewarp and the hidden blue eggs most likely didn't even exist. I mean DoD was written before Shadows&Light (Or about the same time, need to check this) and the sourcebooks states about the blue flight that Malygos' was the only blue dragon left. That other blues had survived 10000 years ago as well was retconned in later.--Maibe 12:53, 4 December 2006 (EST)

Not "retconned," "revealed", there is a huge difference. Nobody knew about the hidden eggs (Korialstrasz didn't even know until he returned from the past), and blue dragons of advanced age were present in Northrend in WC3. --Ragestorm 13:14, 4 December 2006 (EST)

Well, as for Sapphiron and Azuregos... I tihnk they were ingame befor the trilogy came out, so one could have said that Alexstrasza revived them...As for the hiddedn eggs: Remember that Nozdormu, most likely with gritted teeth, said thatt that change to the timeline is okay? I think we can say that Rhonin and Koril returned to an altered timeline...not to the one from where/when they started...--Maibe 13:20, 4 December 2006 (EST)

Yes, they did, but it was still the future version of Krasus who hid the eggs, then was sent back to his own kind. Hence they were completely unknown. Besides, Neltharion only eliminated those blues at the battle. Some were certainly not present at the time. If this continues, we should move this conversation to to Blue Dragon talk. -_Ragestorm 17:00, 4 December 2006 (EST)

Agreed...Let's agree on that Warcraft needs far more sourcebooks to answer a bunch of questions...--Maibe 18:07, 4 December 2006 (EST)

Cause of corruption

There is No evidence to that the voices that caused Neltharion to create the dragon/demon soul and destroy the other flights were those of the old gods. [{User:Mahdi]]

Well, aside from the fact that Krasus explicitly said it, there is the fact that the voices urged Neltharion away from the Demon Soul as it was forcing open their prison. War of the Encients trilogy, Book 3: The Sundering, 295-296. --Ragestorm 22:37, 25 July 2006 (EDT)

Whereabouts of Deathwing

It's said Deathwing hid "under a mountain" and in Hyjal (in WoW) resides a cave which is an exact copy of Onyxias Lair. Very strange, and Malfurion couldn't find Deathwing during is hibernation in the Emerald Dream before the Third War, and Hyjal actually is magic in nature since the new Well of Eternity resides there so the Well must have been used by Deathwing somehow to hid his whereabouts even from higher planes as the Emerald Dream.

This is just speculation and just a reminder of stuff. Makes me wonder... :P - Rendie

We get the idea that Well of Eternity is not accessable because of Nordrassil. Since it was crafted by Alextrasza and Ysera, and Nozdormu, it's unlikely Neltharion can access either the Well or the Tree- between the three of them, they would have realized he'd try something and take steps to counter them. --Ragestorm 12:10, 5 August 2006 (EDT)

I am not sure, but since Nordrassil got weakened when Archimonde was destroyed Deathwing might found some way

to manipulate the well after all, but how Deathwing got there AFTER Archimondes destruction I am not sure but I theorize that the portal that brought him to the world also brought Deathwing (who was theorized to reside in Outland) back to the world. - Rendie

I thought Day of the Dragon took place after the Alliance Expedition, in which case Deathwing was already on Azeroth. I'm a bit fuzzy on the sequence, though, so I could be wrong. Regardless, not even the original Well had any effect whatsoever on the Emerald Dream. Now, just so I get this right, are you thinking that Hyjal is Neltharion's lair from the War of the Ancients, or just his hideaway right now? --Ragestorm 18:42, 5 August 2006 (EDT)

Lord Prestor's full name

Going by the newest sourcebook for the Pen&Paper RPG, 'Alliance Player's Guide' the full name Deathwings choose as human was Lord Daval Prestor. During the beta the place now held by Onyxia's human form was held by a Lord Daval Prestor II...Deathwign himself or perhabs Nefarian?

Definiately Neltharion, Onyxia's a chick and Nefarian is Victor Prestor.--Krusk 00:12, 23 August 2006 (EDT)

Our thinking right now is not to rely heavily on material in the beta- for example, Garona was the Grand Master of the Assasin's Guild in the beta, but was removed. It's probably a retcon- it was intended to be Deathwing up to his old tricks, but Blizzard decided to put Onyxia into that place instead. -Ragestorm 05:34, 23 August 2006 (EDT)

I agree with not relying on the beta, mostly because none of the information we got from that is conclusive. Daval could have been Nefarian, as this was long before we ever heard about Victor Nefarius, or Neltharion himself, or even still Onyxia, if unlikely. If she has the power to change species I doubt gender would be that big a deal. Referring to the original Prestor as "Daval" was likely just a throwback tribute to the beta character.

All dragons can shapeshift, but I don;t think any of them can change gender.--Ragestorm 09:25, 18 December 2006 (EST)

Dragons in Outland

Since the Nether Drakes have been confirmed to be the corrupted children of Deathwing while he was trapped in Outland, i'd assume this means that there are dragons of some sort native to Outland, thoughts?

Maybe Blizzard will retcon so that male dragons can lay eggs. =P

If you go by the german translation one could think blue male dragons can...seriously...so many pages and not one time they use the female term when reffering to malygos' mates...*cough*--Maibe 19:18, 18 December 2006 (EST)

Article name

I think this article could be moved to Deathwing, since that is the predominant name he is known by whenever he shows up, with Lord Prestor and Neltharion redirecting to that. We don't have articles at Night elf/kaldorei or Onyxia/Lady Prestor, and I certainly don't want this one called Deathwing/Neltharion/Lord Prestor for the sake of completeness. :) --Aeleas 02:18, 28 October 2006 (EDT)

As far as I know, the other Aspects still refer to him as Neltharion. Technically, he still is Neltharion. Since the human name is an alias, we never put it in the title. Similarly, "Kaldorei" is like refering to modern humans as "hominids" or even "terrans." --Ragestorm 10:49, 28 October 2006 (EDT)

Kaldorei is how the night elves refer to themselves in their own language, likewise with sin'dorei. Both are commonly used alternate names for the races, they just aren't the most common term. I simply don't see the value in reflecting all possible various names in the title of an article, rather than the most common one.--Aeleas 12:50, 28 October 2006 (EDT)

I see your point, although I don't think it matters much, as all redirects end up here anyway. --Tinkerer 12:56, 28 October 2006 (EDT)

It's not all possible names, it's just his use-name and his real name (in fact, if we must change it, "Neltharion" makes more sense than "Deathwing"), and we don't do it for anyone else. Again, the Prestors are aliases, but both Neltharion and Deathwing are "real" names. --Ragestorm 13:55, 28 October 2006 (EDT)

The fact that we don't do it for anyone else is my point; I don't think it should be done here for consistency and ease of linking. How is Neltharion/Deathwing different from Night elf/kaldorei? Or for that matter, Kingdom of Azeroth/Stormwind, if we are going to include both the former and the current names in article titles?--Aeleas 17:22, 28 October 2006 (EDT)

Both Deathwing and Neltharion redirect here. I'm trying to point out that his circumstance warrants an exception. It's different from night elf/kaldorei because they're not different languages. It's not that different from Azeroth/Stormwind, I guess. --Ragestorm 21:13, 28 October 2006 (EDT)

Deathwing/Neltharion is ugly for a title. Whether you move it to Deathwing or Neltharion doesn't matter much, as long as you move it elsewhere. At least it should be something like Deathwing (Neltharion). It doesn't make a big difference, other than to get rid of that ugly / in the title.--Amro 08:50, 15 November 2006 (EST)

FIne, then, but I propose movement to "Neltharion" or "Neltharion (Deathwing)" --Ragestorm 15:57, 15 November 2006 (EST)

I'd vote for Neltharion, as brackets have a specific meaning in article titles.--Aeleas 17:39, 15 November 2006 (EST)

Well, if you all insist, shall we change the name to Neltharion?--Ragestorm 20:08, 15 November 2006 (EST)

Let's :) --Varghedin 14:40, 27 November 2006 (CET)

I propose calling the whole article Deathwing. Afterall Neltharion is who he USE to be, not who he is NOW. He is the Earth Warder no longer.--Zexx 12:09, 27 December 2006 (EST)

I refuse. He's still the Earth-Warder, only the Pantheon knows how to change that, if even them.--Ragestorm, Head Bookkeeper 17:03, 27 December 2006 (EST)

What a fun dilemma :) It will always be about a 50:50 split between the two - gamers will probably be more accustomed to Deathwing, lore nuts to Neltharion. I wish the wiki to be lore primarily, so the weight will shift to that side. Also, Ragestorm is Head Bookkeeper, and even I'm scared of him ;)

To be serious, Neltharion is the name he used for thousands upon thousands of years, and is his 'real' name. He may have renamed himself Deathwing, but it is not his 'true' name per se. -- Kirkburn (talk) 17:36, 27 December 2006 (EST)

But he is obviously not Neltharion anymore. If you follow the logic that his original name is what should be the name he's recognized officially as, then the Lich King article should be called Ner'zhul. And really, are we to be so arrogant to assume that if someone chooses a new name for himself and it is the new name the world recognizes him as, it is not who he should be known as because it is not the name he was given?

Also, he is the Earth-Warder no longer because he does not fulfill his duties as the Earth Warder anymore. Him and his flight seek only to destroy.--Zexx 17:41, 27 December 2006 (EST)

Ner'zhul has undergone huge changes to become the Lich King (which is not just him anyway), whereas Deathwing is just Neltharion gone mad. He's not changed into a different being. He is still the Earth Warder, because that's why he has his powers. If he wasn't the Earth Warder, he'd be powerless - the name is not necessarily his job, but his title. Edit: note that they do not specifically seek to destroy everything, they wish to 'purify' the world for themselves -- Kirkburn (talk) 17:48, 27 December 2006 (EST)

What you say is still fallacious. You claim the Lich King being no longer referred to as Ner'zhul is because his spirit was transferred to a crystal -- when his personality and identity remained the same, and continues to remain the same because it is still Ner'zhul's intellect and personality which dominate Arthas' body. Yet the Lich King is still not referred to as Arthas or Nerzhul.

In Deathwing's case he's a completely different personality than his original incarnation -- hence, the reason why he himself and other refer to him as Deathwing. If a king is given the title of king but defects from him and attacks his own country, is he still considered a king? So why would Deathwing still be considered the Earth Warder if he no longer fulfills his duties but simply retains his powers? It's been stated that if any of the Aspects die life and the powers that control Azeroth would not change. They are simply guardians who were imbued with powers for protecting those facets of Azeroth.

Also if the Black Dragonflight doesn't seek to destroy how come the section says verbatim that they no longer protect the earth but seek to destroy it?--Zexx 23:37, 27 December 2006 (EST)

Actually, Metzen says that the Lich King now has Arthas's personality- He is colloquially referred to as "Lich King Arthas." As for that section, it's wrong. The Black Dragonflight seeks to protect the earth by removing troublesome species, such as humans or orcs. And Neltharion had the "Deathwing" personality for millenia before being named Deathwing (name aquired somewhen between the First and Second Wars). --Ragestorm, Head Bookkeeper 11:23, 28 December 2006 (EST)

Indeed, Deathwing is plain mad old Neltharion, whereas the Lich King is a grossly transformed Ner'zhul plus Arthas. :) -- Kirkburn (talk) 11:25, 28 December 2006 (EST)

Then why aren't we calling the Lich King Arthas? It's the same personal with added wisdom and power. See, we're exactly back to Square 1 of your argument, and if you claim Arthas and the Lich King are a totally new entity -- DESPITE having the same personalities -- then how is Neltharion having a considerably DIFFERENT personality any different if he claims himself the title of Deathwing? Moreover, if he's simply "Neltharion gone mad", what keeps the Lich King from simply being "Arthas gone mad"? It makes alot more sense to call him Deathwing. That is who he is now.--Zexx 13:59, 29 December 2006 (EST)

Prisoner at Grim Batol

I don't think so. If the Dragonqueen kept Deathwing prisoner, one could expect that the prime consort would know about something of this magnitude. But when Nozdormu contacts Krasus (at the begining of "The Well of Eternity"), the first thing that springs to the mind of Korialstrasz is that the black aspect is cooking up something...again. Obviously, that would be impossible if Deathwing is imprisoned. --Ivanjedi