Talk:Death knight

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9 August, 2007 23 August, 2007

Available Races - My Two Cents

I noticed on the page that it appears all of the races would get access to it. My thought was..."Uh, WHAT?"

IMHO, reasons why the current races should or should not have death knights:

Horde:

• Orcs have done it before - even if it was technically orcish spirits in the bodies of dead Azerothian knights - and some (myself included) still practice warlock magics. Entirely plausible.
• Forsaken, definitely - they're dead, that's a good start right there. They've also proven they have a mastery of shadow magic - if you've ever faced an undead shadow priest in PvP, you'll know what I mean! - and indeed make the shadow their religion. Plus, Sylvanas would probably like a few necromancers in her ranks.
• Blood elves are opportunistic, and have proven that they will resort to anything - fel magic, sapping holy powers from a naaru, etc. - to feed their magical addictions. And besides, have you gotten a good look at their mounts? They're evil! Even the BE pallies - red eyes. Spooky stuff.
• Trolls....haven't seen any troll necromancers. Seen plenty of undead trolls, though! Truthfully, I have nothing to say for or against troll death knights.
• Tauren would probably be against it, because their culture has respect for the earth, and for the dead.

Alliance:

• Humans are opportunistic and easily corrupted - just ask Arthas, Kel'Thuzad, etc. All of the Scourge death knights in WC3, and all but one in WoW, have been humans. (See the next point for the all but one.)
• Dwarves might be pushing it a bit, but there is at least one dwarven death knight - Thane Korth'azz, one of the Four Horsemen in Naxxramas.
• Night elves - opportunistic as they might be (just look at Teldrassil, and who was behind its creation, and tell me that's not opportunistic) - would probably be opposed to it for pretty much the same reasons as the tauren. Well, respect for the earth might be pushing it - the Sundering is a good example of that, even if it was a paranoid egotist like Azshara behind that effort! - but they would not screw with the dead.
• Draenei - at least, those in the service of the Alliance - would not resort to necromancy. Ever. The Auchenai don't count, they're brainwashed by a man'ari eredar using the shadow energies of a dead naaru to screw with their minds.
• Come on...a gnome death knight?

Feel free to chuck rotten fruit at me, I'll be here all week. --Joshmaul 17:16, 4 August 2007 (UTC)

It would make sense to me if only the other plate-wearing classes could become (or is it "create?") a Death Knight. Between Warriors and Paladins, that encompasses all races in the game. Arthas was a Paladin so obviously Paladins would be able to follow in his footsteps. But from what I'm reading on the WoW official page, the Death Knights are a hybrid tanking/dps class... which is precisely what the Warrior class already is. Only time will tell, though. Darin Wagner 17:32, 4 August 2007 (UTC)

My guess is that Humans, Dwarves, and maybe Gnomes from the Alliance (Joshmaul is correct about Draenei and Night elves), and Blood elves, Forsaken, and possibly orcs or trolls. Tauren- almost certainly not. --Ragestorm (talk · contr) 20:52, 4 August 2007 (UTC)

For certain, I think humans, orcs and undead. For the "possibles", I think blood elves (again, it wouldn't be too hard to imagine - a blood elf death knight would make Dar'Khan look like a cockroach), dwarves (if only because of Korth'azz) and (*shudder*) gnomes. And possibly trolls, but again, nothing really for or against that. --Joshmaul 12:29, 5 August 2007 (UTC)

I think that a draenei would really be pushing it as a death knight. And night elves- forget about it. Probably the same for the Tauren. Addendum: since you have to complete a series of quests with another character, that character can probably be any race, while the new Death Knight character could only be chosen from an abbreviated list.--Ragestorm (talk · contr) 12:49, 5 August 2007 (UTC)

My thoughts exactly. Like I've said elsewhere, if they DO make them available to all races...they had better have a good reason. --Joshmaul 12:32, 6 August 2007 (UTC)

Some Gnomes turned from technology and magic to demonology, they have warriors, so it's not a stretch to imagine gnome warrior/warlock turned death knight. Yes, hilarity will ensue, but it's there. Cryptomancer 21:56, 9 August 2007 (UTC)

New info posted on Stratics' WoW website, based on a post from WoW Europe's forums:

Which race? It's true that the current plan has been heavily discussed to go ahead with all races, but no final decision has been made. After talking to Chris he wasn't totally sold on the idea. Both are technically correct in that the current plan of some of the developers is to go ahead with all races, there's been no final decision made and no real work has progressed to force a decision just yet. The FAQ is more accurate at this time, in my opinion.

Lore-wise there's really no reason why a specific race couldn't become a Death Knight.

All races can be challenged mentally and physically, their will dulled, and be cast down into madness ... and darkness. Their souls drawn into the runeblade they wield.

Stratics News Post

So much for my argument against draenei, tauren or NEs. That is, if you take anything Blizzard tells us with more than a grain of salt. --Joshmaul 17:44, 7 August 2007 (UTC)

I'd personally prefer that not all races are available (it seems kind of silly to have only one class be universal), but all races are corruptible, and so you could make a lore argument for any one of them. Draenei and Night Elves are inherently corruptible... say hello to any Eredar, Broken, Lost Ones, Satyrs or Naga that you run into... and Illidan in particular comes to mind. Though admittedly Tauren are probably the toughest sell. And if Gnomes can be Warlocks and Warriors, it stands to reason that they can be Death Knights... though I have to agree no one wants to see that crap. :) -- AriochIV 00:28, 8 August 2007 (UTC)

Well, before BC, Warriors were pretty much universal - all races had 'em. Now all but one has 'em (BEs think they're better than us...oh, wait). Still, nine races outta ten - if that's not "technically" universal... --Joshmaul 08:56, 8 August 2007 (UTC)

Ever use a Shadowy Potion to take a romp down into the depths of Jaedenar? Some of the enforcers protecting Lord Banehollow are- surprisingly- Tauren. As for the Auchenai... am I the only one who would actually enjoy playing something as juicily wicked as an Auchenai Death Knight?

Last but not least, Trolls do have necromancers. Zanzil is one of the few that actually summons undead (and believe me, he's a rump and a half), but he does summon them and the bulk of the zombies in STV bear his mark.--Darth603 12:31, 11 August 2007 (UTC)

You cannot forget that every race has its black sheep. Someone, or groups of people, that disregard everything about their own kind and start messing with things that should not be messed with. Also, they never mentioned how death knights will come into existence in the game yet. 21:08, 11 August 2007 (UTC)

On the topic of Tauren... I'm pretty sure a Grimtotem Tauren would have no problem with the whole death knight bit. --Adonzo 22:25, 11 August 2007 (UTC)

I can't see Darkspear trolls. They're into the voodo and a small group. Night elves and tauren are definte no no's even if do have evil individiuals like the Highborne and grimtotems I haven't seen any of them worshipping the shadow(or anything besides the earth in the tauren case). They just don't use shadow magic,have never been seen using necromancy and can't be a paladin which decreases their chances. Gnomes would be odd because they don't worship anything,being atheists. I can actually see draenei deathknights because Malaadar is a fallen paladin and uses the shadow. Not that they would be welcome in the Exodar. Orc death knights are a mixed bag,on one hand you have the warcraft 2 deathknights but they were in undead human bodies and were a different class from scourge deathknights. They also lack access to the paladin class. They certainly aren't out of the question but they aren't a shoe-in. Zarnks 04:34, 13 August 2007 (UTC)

You're running on the assumption that you had to be a paladin to become a death knight. While for the most part paladins have been the ones corrupted into death knights (Arthas, the guy in the trailer, etc.), the insane descent into evil is not exclusive to them (ask any warlock). Warriors could very possibly become death knights too (and the blood elves have paladins, so that fills that gap!) And lore-wise - at least according to Blizzard - anyone could become a death knight, if they go too far into madness. --Joshmaul 18:11, 13 August 2007 (UTC)

Its certainly is a big boast to have been a paladin. I've haven't saw any deathknights that have been stated to have not been paladins. Zarnks 18:59, 13 August 2007 (UTC)

Teron Gorefiend? Yeah, I know... not a Scourge Death Knight. But prior to patch 2.1 at least, he was quite Orky. -- AriochIV 19:16, 13 August 2007 (UTC)

The orc body was a typo. He is a orc in a undead human body. The deathknights from Warcraft 2 are actually quite different from Warcraft 3 death knights,being fragile spellcasters,actually being undead. They were more closer to liches then scourge death knights. Infact many became liches. Zarnks 19:44, 13 August 2007 (UTC)

You said you hadn't seen any non-paladin death knights...well, the argument is unclear as to whether Highlord Mograine was one or not - I think he might have been, but many cite the fact he has no mana in his appearance in Old Hillsbrad to the fact that he was probably just a warrior, not a paladin (though still enough to be an officer in the Alliance military, and have some affiliation with the Silver Hand). And as I said, descending into madness/necromancy/etc. is NOT exclusive to paladins. --Joshmaul 00:08, 14 August 2007 (UTC)

I don't know if you guys every heard how this whole thing worked....but your character doesn't become a death knight!!! After you have completed the line of quests, you unlock the ability to create a death knight character from the character creation screen. All this discussion about what races or classes should be able to do it is largely irrelevant. The race question will only happen at the beginning when you create your character and at that point it really doesn't matter. Maybe I just thought you all were talking about something else and I am totally off basis here. User:Tetsuo86/sig

We were discussing what races could become them. Zarnks is of the opinion - or so I am presuming - that only races that have paladins (humans, dwarves, draenei and blood elves ATM) should have access to death knights, because paladins are the predominant (but not only, as I said) source of DKs in WC3. --Joshmaul 20:52, 14 August 2007 (UTC)

Death knights will be available to all races. Blizz said it themselves.   Zurr  T ∙ C 20:55, 14 August 2007 (UTC)

Blizz also said that may very well change before release. -- AriochIV 22:31, 14 August 2007 (UTC)

"The orc body was a typo."

Typo? ROTFLOL... Last I checked Teron Gorefiend wasn't a piece of ascii art...Baggins 22:12, 14 August 2007 (UTC)

I mean a mistake. Teron Gorefiend currently looks like an undead human not an orc. Zarnks 22:28, 14 August 2007 (UTC)

They clearly changed their minds, but I'm not sure you can call it a mistake. What does the ghost of an orc who possessed an undead human look like? Seems to me there's no hard and fast answer to that question. -- AriochIV 22:33, 14 August 2007 (UTC)

I would also point out, if you look at the sample UI of the Player Portrait/Rune interface, the example Blizzard chose was an Orc named Teron. As in Teron Gorefiend. This by itself does not prove anything, of course, but those who assume that the new Death Knight refers only to the Scourge version from WC3 may be a bit premature. -- AriochIV 08:18, 16 August 2007 (UTC)

As Gorefiend himself would tell you in BT, he was the first to take the title of death knight, and thus all who claim it now are pale shadows of his magnificence - even Arthas, to a small degree. *grin*

Seriously, however - you're right, it might not prove anything, but you might be onto something nevertheless. --Joshmaul 08:29, 16 August 2007 (UTC)

On the subject of the horde death knight's being orcs in human bodies, they werent in human bodies because it was necessary to becoming a death knight, but quite simply because their old bodies had been destroyed. Their powers as a death knight came from their powers in life as warlocks and necrolytes. --Adonzo 05:41, 18 August 2007 (UTC)

Half right; the necromantic powers came from the jeweled truncheons they wore, which were imbued by Gul'dan with the powers of the necrolytes (which he had recently, ritually murdered). None of the death knights were necrolytes themselves, far as I'm aware; they were all warlocks of the Shadow Council killed by Doomhammer during his purge. --Joshmaul 03:38, 20 August 2007 (UTC)

Warcraft 2 death knights are a different class altogether,they are more akin to warlocks not modern Death knigths. A great deal of them became liches and they share death and decay. Zarnks 21:27, 23 August 2007 (UTC)

Class Armor

I'm I the only one who noticed, but the Death Knight Armor is very remarkable close to T4 Hunter? Some people say it's the Warrior set, but it's definately the Hunter one. Blizzard is kinda rushing on this, aren't they?

Death Knight Armor T4 Hunter, Demon Stalker ScythXIII 00:33, 15 August 2007 (UTC)

Breastplate's kinda different, but the shoulders are a dead giveaway, yeah. (Ooh, that was a bad one..."dead" giveaway...) Good eyes - I don't think I would have noticed if you hadn't mentioned it. --Joshmaul 13:10, 15 August 2007 (UTC)

Seems to me people are reading WAY too much into that silly trailer video. More than likely the "real" Death Knight gear has not yet been created. -- AriochIV 19:49, 15 August 2007 (UTC)

That "silly trailer video" is all we have at the moment...so we can read into it as much as we damn well please, thank you. *grin* --Joshmaul 01:35, 16 August 2007 (UTC)

Oh, hardly. According to that video, Death Knights are converted from Alliance Paladins when they get surrounded and overwhelmed by undead creatures. We know very well from much better sources that's not true. Please don't take a teaser trailer for more than it is... an early attempt to generate excitement for the expansion... with whatever they happen to have lying around at the moment. -- AriochIV 08:13, 16 August 2007 (UTC)

already 10 characters on a realm?

i checked out some podcast with the lead designer where he mentioned how having 10 characters wouldn't hinder making a death knight. instead, it would unlock a "hero slot" which is needed to make the death knight. it was unclear however if it was one hero slot per realm, or per character. anyone heard anything else about this, as i find it'd be nice to know if i shall level more characters the few extra levels to be allowed to make more hero characters.. ;) User:Taurmindo/sig 05:45, 16 August 2007 (UTC)

probably the 10 slot is how many normasl chars you can have and once you unlock heroes you can have prolly 10 hero classes lol. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Rahnumed (talk · contr).

Not likely. It might be two or three (three was the limit in WC3), but not a whole new set of 10. --Joshmaul 03:30, 20 August 2007 (UTC)

I am going to guess that they will simply count as another character since that is what they essentially are. Yes they take more time to unlock and you start them later in the virtual life of the character, but they are a character nonetheless. The reason they limit the number of toons you can have is because of database and server storage issues. If everyone had 50 characters on a server, they would have huge databases that would take a lot of time to query.

User:Tetsuo86/sig

A mount

I was thinking sinceall death knights have a skeleetal horse mount, will the DKs get to summon a skeletal horse? But then again the Forsaken already have a skeletal horse as their mounts Mr.X8 18:39, 19 August 2007 (UTC)

So no problem, then.--Ragestorm (talk · contr) 20:46, 19 August 2007 (UTC)

Unless you're not Horde. This would be nice, but there's no official word on it yet. -- AriochIV 22:25, 19 August 2007 (UTC)

I would hope for something a little closer to the  [Fiery Warhorse's Reins]. Skeletal horses...might be cool to see Alliance on it, but almost everyone (I've seen) Horde has one. --Joshmaul 03:32, 20 August 2007 (UTC)

Good point about the  [Fiery Warhorse's Reins] Josh, that is my favorite mount in game (or is it in-game?) so yeah that would be nice. Mr.X8 01:03, 23 August 2007 (UTC)

It's in game. Attumen the Huntsman in Karazhan. --Joshmaul 13:54, 24 August 2007 (UTC)

The Possible Ideas section

I personally really don't like this kind of thing. WoWwiki isn't a blog, it is an encyclopedic information source. I would like to remove this piece from the article and prevent other such pieces from being added. I understand the value of this kind of thing, but since it hasn't been talked about my Blizzard it isn't something that should be in a source like this. Thoughts? User:Tetsuo86/sig

Not quite sure which section you mean? The "The following abilities are only ideas" bit? I think it's valid information (as it's taken from in-game) but should be worded in a fashion that doesn't encourage people to add their own hopes and desires. User:Kirkburn/Sig3 21:23, 23 August 2007 (UTC)

Tetsuo's right; the stuff about auras is pure speculation. There is plenty of this information on the Lore page about Death Knights... it doesn't need to be posted here. Any speculation opens the door to more speculation, and there's an infinite number of "possible" abilities. -- AriochIV 02:13, 24 August 2007 (UTC)

True, but those were inferred from pre-existing Death Knight abilities. It's not the important anyway, so fine with it being left off. User:Kirkburn/Sig3 02:57, 24 August 2007 (UTC)

Maybe make a new article just for this? Looks like it might be a hot topic. /shrug --Super Bhaal 14:03, 24 August 2007 (UTC)

I agree that it is an interesting subject, but it is all speculation until it is confirmed. There are pleanty of places to talk about it that aren't supposed to be critical sources of information (the WoW Forums, various fan sites). I would say they are the appropriate place for such discussions. User:Tetsuo86/sig