Any chance we might come across him in addition to Arthas? Something tells me one of the objectives ( in addition to a bloodbath ) will be to keep Mal'ganis from throating Arthas. --Super Bhaal 23:31, 27 August 2007 (UTC)

That answers that! Internets to Leviathon. However, wouldn't "hinder" be more appropriate? Mal'ganis didn't kick until Arthas went to Northrend. --Super Bhaal 18:40, 29 August 2007 (UTC)

Why are we helping Arthas?

I guess the Bronze Dragonflight has yet a good explaination to why we are gonna help Arthas. Wouldn't we be better of if Arthas was killed that day by Mal'ganis? In that case much evil acts would had been avoided from Arthas' later existance as Death Knight. The only good thing I can think of is that Arthas tipped Illidan about the Skull of Gul'dan and Tichondrius. Maybe Tichondrius' death was the key to the Legion's downfall? Well, we will just have to wait and see. --Odolwa 23:12, 29 August 2007 (UTC)

If Arthas hadn't killed all those people, there'd be even more undead running around Lordaeron, and it would probably have fallen a lot sooner. --Super Bhaal 23:16, 29 August 2007 (UTC)

And what would that matter? It wouldn't change anything in the long run. --Odolwa 20:09, 30 August 2007 (UTC)

Killing what must have been 3/4 of 25,000 people might not have seemed to do much. But if you think about what would have happened if those people hadn't died before they got the chance to uh...die, and the "spread on contact" nature of the plague, you'd probably have even more dead people running around Lordaeron, and by the time Arthas came back they probably would then have been strong enough to run into Hillsbrad or Aerie Peak, or even Khaz Modan and Stormwind, kill even more people, and once everything was all nasty and rotted head to Kalimdor and finish up.

So, would you rather be "pretty scummy" and help some madman with a hammer and a book neutralize your ( future ) enemies, or be "really scummy" and let the Burning Legion and the Scourge claim a bunch of corpses to use for whatever they wanted? The Bronze Dragonflight has been telling us to do the "right thing" so far: keep Medivh from getting killed, help Thrall escape Durnholde, hinder Archimonde's ascent... --Super Bhaal 21:59, 30 August 2007 (UTC)

If Stratholme wasn't slaughtered, Arthas would never have gone to Northrend to become the Lich King, and thus Naxxramas wouldn't exist. Maybe this instance is part of the attunement for the new Naxxramas (wishful thinking here >_>) Jeoh talk · stalk  10:18, 8 September 2007 (UTC)

I fail to see how the existance of Naxxramas can be a good thing.. --Odolwa 13:06, 8 September 2007 (UTC)

I think we Help Arthas for the same reasons we battle the Infinite dragonflight in other instances: if they change any event the bronze dragonflight should lose the control over time itself, leading to an unknown (we don't know if worst or better but surely more chaotic) future (aka present). The Bronzes say:" Ok, many horrible thinks happened on Azeroth but we still rule it in order to give to the population a future as good as possible." --N'Nanz 13:43, 8 September 2007 (UTC)

Naxxramas existed well before Arthas was turned. It's the citadel of Kel'Thuzad, not the citadel of Arthas. :)

This is the current timeline:

  • Arthas destroys Stratholme, prevents Mal'Ganis from resurrecting the population.
  • Arthas travels to Northrend and gains Frostmourne.
  • Arthas kills Mal'Ganis.
  • Arthas becomes a Death Knight, kills his father and Uther, destroys Lordaeron and Quel'Thalas, and resurrects Kel'Thuzad.
  • Kel'Thuzad summons Archimonde.
  • Jaina and Thrall travel to Kalimdor, meet up with the night elves.
  • Arthas leads Illidan to the Skull of Gul'dan. Illidan consumes its power, becomes a demon, kills Tichondrius, and kinda screws up the Legion gameplan.
  • Archimonde is defeated at the Battle of Mount Hyjal.
  • Illidan attacks the Frozen Throne, causing the Lich King (and Arthas) to lose strength.
  • Sylvanas creates the Forsaken and destroys the Dreadlord Insurgents.
  • Illidan takes over Outland.
  • Arthas arrives in Northrend (again), traverses Azjol-Nerub, battles Illidan, and defeats him.
  • Arthas becomes the Lich King.

Now this is what I think would happen if Arthas were killed:

  • Mal'Ganis destroys Stratholme, raises everyone as Scourge.
  • Lordaeron still collapses, though Uther would probably survive. Maybe.
  • No one takes up Frostmourne - because there's no one quite as "conflicted" (and thus, easily swayed) as Arthas was. Well, maybe Muradin might find it, but he'll be smart - he realizes the blade is cursed, he doesn't touch that crap.
  • The Scourge (probably under Mal'Ganis) destroy Quel'Thalas, resurrect Kel'Thuzad, etc.
  • Kel'Thuzad still summons Archimonde.
  • Jaina (probably) and Thrall still go to Kalimdor and meet the night elves.
  • Illidan doesn't get led to the Skull of Gul'dan (as that was Arthas' doing), therefore he does not absorb its energies and screw up the Legion gameplan.
  • Kil'jaeden probably destroys the Lich King, either personally or through some intermediary (probably not Illidan, though).
  • Archimonde absorbs the energies of the World Tree.
  • The Burning Legion destroys the world.

To quote the philosopher Miller: "That's just my opinion, I could be wrong." --Joshmaul 20:00, 8 September 2007 (UTC)

If Arthas defeated Illidan at Icecrown, why is he still "alive" (killable) at the Black Temple? --  Shandris  talk / contribs 10:46, 9 September 2007 (UTC)
Not sure if this is a straight answer to your question or not, but...I think someone said in some other article that Blizzard/Metzen/Longcat wanted Illidan to die, but decided to keep him alive due to his large fanbase.

They probably also kept him to further the story in Outland or something, although if he'd have kicked I'm sure Vashj'd still be pining for Azshara, Kael'd still give Kil'jaeden a call, Akama'd still be babysitting Maiev ( well, either that or he'd decide "you guys suck I'm going home" ), and Maiev would...somehow escape and jump on Arthas for kill-stealing or something. --Super Bhaal 11:11, 9 September 2007 (UTC)

i think its simple, we either help the Bronze Dragon flight or the time line will get affected, they might lose control over time and events, and that will lead to unknown results, which makes sense that keeping things as they are safer. another thing, i think that the existence of the lich king is important, there are the ppl of azeroth (alliance and horde), the legion, and the lich king and his forces, if one went missing, it will be simply a fight between 2 forces, which will lead to direct results, but when we have those three and illidan screwing things in outland we have more complex and enjoyable story, so "why not?" :P --lucifersama 15:51, 9 September 2007 (UTC)

yea, it is simple. if one considers the time paradox simple. basicly, if we don't kill arthas, the world will look different. and by different, it means that we who go back in time to kill arthas, wouldn't exist and be able to go back in time to kill arthas. thus, the world would "end" in a time paradox. instead, we have to keep arthas alive, e.g. not alter history. as simple with keeping arthas alive as rescuing thrall from durnholde. with the idea of time altering and traveling, it'd even be possible that history is and always was us going back in time to help arthas. of course it wasn't the very first time (as time, as it is, wouldn't go on until we're able to go back then) but once it was the "second time", it'll be as it was the first time too.. do i make any sense? Taurmindo | talk contr  11:07, 27 October 2007 (UTC)

It's not we who take the initiative to go back in time, it's a mission given to us by the Bronze Dragonflight. They wouldn't send us back in time only in order to prevent ourselves from not existing, they have a grander scheme in their heads. And no, history have not always been like this, it's been altered by the time of Wrath of the Lich King.--Odolwa 11:41, 27 October 2007 (UTC)

Illidan was never retconed alive. Blizzard did not have enough time to do that cinematic. So he never died he was just mortaly wounded. (The same could be said for Lothar and he may still be alive in black rock spire with a huge bandage)--The last Alterac 05:04, 5 November 2007 (UTC)

Well did guys play the Culling and try to fail? If you do ,Malguis will send his undead army to crush the human base and tell Arthas: "Looks like you are not as strong as the Dark Lord thought." So Lich King must have other plans. If Arthas get killed, the Lich King will change his plan, delete the warning on the sword, let the dwarf Muradin pick up the sword. Then the situation will get worse. --Master3, 5 November 2007(UTC)

The bronze dragonflight tells you why you have you fix the anomalies with the very first quest line, because the world as anyone knows would not exist if the infinite dragonflight are allowed to interfere and have their way. Sabar 07:53, 6 December 2007 (UTC)

If Arthas died against Mal'Ganis he could have never ressurected Kel'Thuzad thus Silvanas would have never died and there would be no Forsaken today, and since Arthas was the one that caused the High Elf holocaust driving Kael'Thas mad there would be no Blood Elfs and the High Elfs would still be with the alliance with their sumwell and no one would be trying to summon KIl'Jaeden. Also this would mean that when Illidan has to kill the Lich King, cause Arthas or no Arthas the guy has to go anyway, he would succed and because he only has the naga as his minions and no reason to run from Kil'Jaeden he will stay on Azeroth were with all our armies we could kill him alot easily. Mizrath 18:42, 25 May 2008 (UTC)

Or the Lich King could have found himself another champion within, like, seconds. He probably had a waiting list. --Super Bhaal (talk) 03:46, 26 May 2008 (UTC)

Well i guess this is the most discussed subject ive seen by now, but back too the point.If Arthas wasen Killed Thrall and Jaina still went too Kalimdor, The Southern part of Azeroth (or south of Eastern Kingdom) Stormwind and IronForge may have been prepared for the Scourge( the Burning Legion im not sure) and The Lich King wouldn't be released. Do i don't know watt would Tichondrius would be soo important for the Legion? Well anyway things would have been bad with or Without Arthas O_o --My life for Aiur (talk) 07:52, 22 December 2008 (UTC)

Stratholme Zoo

Unlike most places in Azeroth Blizzard has been very consistent about the city's structure. It would be a shame if they removed the Zoo from Rein Of Chaos. (BTW. Why is there a thunder lizard there? arnt they supost to be in the barrens)--The last Alterac 05:07, 5 November 2007 (UTC)

Zoos generally show animals that don't live in the area normally. (Ever seen a tiger wandering down Main St, Anywhere, USA? Or an elephant enriching the grass in your local park?) --Azaram 11:38, 13 December 2007 (UTC)
I think what he means is that Thunder Lizards/Kodos are not indigenous to the Eastern Kingdoms, and at that point in time, no-one had been to Kalimdor, or even heard of it outside of fables (except maybe the goblin merchants) - so it's highly unlikely that a zoo in a city on a continent that had no direct links would have had a Thunder Lizard.Suzanne 10:00, 14 December 2007 (UTC)
Ah, ok. I dunno lore that well, so I didn't know that. I would have sworn that there were thunder lizard type beasties on the eastern continent, but thinking about it, I can't think of where... On the other hand. would the goblins have passed up a chance to sell a completely unknown animal for a huge price like that? --Azaram 02:43, 16 December 2007 (UTC)
Goblin merchants = selling unique animals. Have to agree with Azaram. Azaram, yes I think you are right. I'm pretty sure at least thunder lizards might have been found in Lordaeron maps as creeps.Baggins 02:47, 16 December 2007 (UTC)
Goblin merchants also = selling unique items. Never been to any of the CoT branches, but don't all of them have their own special "shops"? --Super Bhaal 03:12, 16 December 2007 (UTC)
Ya there are Goblin Merchants and Temples of Boom on almost every map with unique items. As for caverns of time, I don't think so.Baggins 03:41, 16 December 2007 (UTC)
Why worry so much about the zoo and goblins? I'd rather wonder if they manage to bring in every single shop we see in Stratholme ingame now.--Maibe 11:17, 16 December 2007 (UTC)
If The last Alterac is anything like me, they're assuming "zoo" means killable mobs with nice drops. Having the shops up would be nice too; I can imagine with most raid groups one trip would be spent helping Arthas weed out the sickly, and the other could be spent blowing heaps of money on recipes, a la Old Hillsbrad. Just a thought. --Super Bhaal 15:24, 16 December 2007 (UTC)

Actualy. The zoo animals are friendly. (EVEN if you attack them they wont respond. UNLIKE THE WARSONG on level 3 on the Orcs Campaign in Rein Of Chaos. (For some reason I cant sine it The last Alterac)

Wait so there was (and will/might be) a zoo in the new Strat instance?  IconSmall HighElf Male.gif Mr.X8 Talk Contribs 19:14, 22 December 2007 (UTC)

Most likely not. I doubt the path taken during the game will even lead through that part of the city.Baggins 19:18, 22 December 2007 (UTC)
It's more likely we get the undestroyed version of Now-Stratholme and perhabs an area beyond the gate formerly planned to be the entrance to Naxx.--Maibe 22:45, 22 December 2007 (UTC)

Evil classes and unknown races in the culling?

What will Arthas' reaction be to classes like Warlock and Death Knight? Wouldn't he by all logic react with hostility to them? And races such as Night Elves, Draenei, and most of the Horde races(Blood Elves may be able to pull it off by masquerading as High Elves.)? --AmrasCalmacil 15:16, 17 March 2008 (UTC)

The race issue will probably be solved just as in the Old Hillsbrad Foothills instance, but for the classes I have no idea.--User:Gourra/Sig2 15:44, 17 March 2008 (UTC)
With all do respect for the mighty prince...Arthas had a lot on his mind around the time of the culling. He was failing to protect his people, he was alienating his greatest allies, and he was slowly losing his grip on sanity. I'm sure he was far too preoccupied to see a warlock as anything more than a strangly dressed mage. Unless, of course, Blizzard decides to write this into the storyline as Arthas' first insight into the usefulness of darker powers...(i.e. "That Seed of Corruption really annihilated that group of level 1 citizens! Perhaps shadow magic can be more effective than the light...") and we start a Terminator paradox where we do something in the past that causes the present to be the way we always thought it was. But that's just me being creative, I honestly think my first idea is the more likely one.DenimForce 03:21, 24 March 2008 (UTC)

You've still got to think of the Death Knights, he could hardly mistake them for oddly dresed paladins, especially in combat. --AmrasCalmacil 16:51, 15 April 2008 (UTC)

Maybe they'll temporarily rewrite their spells to make them like warriors and disguise them as such. He might have been going off the deep at around this time, but still wasn't fully a nut which is why I agree they'll have to do something about DKs.  IconSmall HighElf Male.gif Mr.X8 Talk Contribs 17:36, 20 July 2008 (UTC)

Culling versus Sacking

In a lot of the quests in the Eastern Plaguelands, it seems that they mention that Stratholme was sacked by the Scourge, and that the city pretty much caught on fire. Many citizens escaped, but some stayed to protect their property. In the Culling of Stratholme storyline, it seems to say that the city was infected by some tainted grain and were going to turn into the Undead, and so Arthas went in there and killed all of them. Are these stories seperate or getting mixed together? I don't think Arthas would have let so many people just stroll out of Stratholme or that that citizens that stayed there to protect their goods would mistake that Arthas for the Scourge.  Rolandius Wc3Knight.gif (talk - contr) 02:30, 22 July 2008 (UTC)

Well, I think both happened actually. Cuz see, there's a cutscene thing in WC3 after Stratholme where Jaina and Uther talk in Stratholme, and there are actually some living villagers. So then maybe they went into rebuilding for a bit, and then when Arthas comes back from Northrend, he pretty much destroys Lordaeron and all that. So then the Scourge most likely sacked Stratholme. I'm just guessing here though, so don't completely trust what I say. Toran Wildpaw of the Frenzyheart (talk) 00:06, 25 August 2008 (UTC)

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