Talk:Blood elf

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September 2006: As per the recent race names vote at Wowpedia talk:Writing policy#Race name case, the correct race name spelling is "blood elf" and not "Blood Elf"

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New Section

Added a "Notable Blood Elves" section; some races have one, others don't, so I thought it seemed sensible to provide the blood elves with one now that they're coming out as a playable race. --Pure.Wasted 17:52, 30 September 2006 (EDT)

Spelling

I'm going to edit the article to maintain consistency with the official websites. Blood Elf will become blood elf, as it should all over the wiki (and as I have already done with draenei). You may berate me after this line :) -- Kirkburn 14:57, 14 August 2006 (EDT)

Oh, and I'll add a big red sign saying 'don't you dare turn me back!' liek I did with the draenei. We should also really be doing this to all references to class type (rogues, shamans, etc), as they are also incorrectly capitalised. And high elves. Well, it's a lot of work to be done. Join me in the edit war! -- Kirkburn 15:01, 14 August 2006 (EDT)

On the same topic, the page should be moved to Blood elf, but I shan't do that yet. -- Kirkburn 16:20, 14 August 2006 (EDT)

As is most likely obvious, I have just completed the move :) Next up, ngiht elves. Thanks to those making sure the race names stay correct! -- Kirkburn 10:46, 21 August 2006 (EDT)

I've put up a vote to make lower-case race names the standard policy. WoWWiki_talk:Policy/Writing#Race_name_case--Aeleas 14:15, 21 August 2006 (EDT)

Opening paragraph

Is there any reason why the opening paragraph of this article is all in italics with lines around it? I think just a standard intro is cleaner.--Aeleas 20:35, 22 August 2006 (EDT)

Meh. I think basically ALL BC topics have something like that. And after a second look, ALL races have that. Or the ones I bothered to check. It's just a small blurb anyways. Pzychotix 21:16, 22 August 2006 (EDT)

I'd say italic intros are fairly common around the wiki. But the horizontal separator lines are not, and, in my opinion, they look quite bleh.   --Mikk 05:23, 23 August 2006 (EDT)

Introduction and History

This section has some points that don't make sense. First of all, what does "Most of what was left of Quel'thalas was burned down by the High Elves, in an effort to give the scourge a psychological victory and leaving the few High elves left who were making their last stand on Sunstrider isle" mean? Does the author mean the High Elves were trying to deny the Scourge a victory? And what source is he/she getting this from? Second, this history ignores the bifurcation between the Blood Elves of Quel'thalas and the Blood Elves of Outland - as the WoW history page on the Blood Elf notes, Kael took a bunch of warriors with him but left behind the rest of his people. These Blood Elves never encountered the naga, or Illidan, or the draenei, and didn't go to Outland or Icecrown. This is an especially important point in the storyline because it sets up a division between Lor'themar's Quel'thalas-based elves, and Rommath/Kael's Outland-based Elves.

The follow-up history section also lacks sources. I know for a fact that Blood Elf zones have Forsaken allied NPCs in them, quests involving the Forsaken's assistance, and a quest where you visit Sylvannus, etc. However, unless it's grounded in lore or in-game, I think it needs to be left out.

EDIT: Likewise, this new Uneasy Trusting section lacks foundation. I further wouldn't characterize Lor'themar Theron and Halduron Brightwing as Sylvannus loyalists. Vikingkingq

They aren't. Loth'remar's relationship with Sylvanus is still unknown, but his devotion to Kael'thas is obviously well documented. Although we can't make any firm judgments, I did edit those parts dealing with their relation with each other. I doubt they like each other but from what we know in-game, they can atleast tolerate each other enough to create instantaneous travel between the Undercity and Silvermoon, which takes an enormous amount of trust on each faction leader's part. From what we learn of Halduron Brightwing in the Sunewll trilogy we can pretty safely assume he grudgingly buys into drawing from fel magic to feed because there is no other alternative, and he keeps Anveena's true nature a secret.

I've adjusted most of the history to reflect this. I also added in why blood elves are the way they are and how it characterizes them at the end of the culture stub, and all the posts about their controversy bar the Paladin stub were authored by me.

Could whoever is adding that addendum of how warriors didn't have a place in quel'dorei/sin'dorei society please give me good backing on it? Because as I recall the elves were not shy in the slightest about using men in armor, and forest fighting in fantasy and in actual history does NOT put disfavor upon armored men.

Armor is armor no matter where you go, and it's always an advantage. Even in water, granted it won't be deep.--Grid 10:44, 10 November 2006 (EST)

Playable Race Section

Do not add more Blood Elf Warrior, "comments" to this page they are flooding it, Blood Elves dont have Warriors it should be mentioned once or twice thats all thats needed. Explanations like that in "Lore and Gameplay Reasoning Behind the Elimination of Blood Elf Warriors" and the classes note should be enough to explain to people why they do not have Warriors if more comments about this are added I will delete them on site. Thank you for your time and understanding. Solare

"Blood elves are the physically weakest out of all the races of the Horde. The orcs, trolls and tauren are far superior to them in size, weight, strength and speed, each in different but always superior degrees for the respective races. So logically for blood elves, who are also the world's greatest arcanists and a culture where all blood elves from all walks of life are proficient in magic, their melee soldiers would supplant their abilities with their far superior affinity and grasp of magic than the other Horde races."

Like I keep adding, Paladins wield huge, heavy swords, maces, and shields, and wear plate armor. This doesn't explain why Blood Elves do not get Warriors (with all due respect, is ONLY because of balancing). -AzraelOpacus

Paladins are not warriors, however. They have the power of the Light to aid them, for example. In any case - the point of the section is to explain why don't don't have warriors over any of the other choices. Warriors make least sense for BE to have as an option, not that they don't deserve or have them at all. So what if paladins make as little sense as warriors to you - whether or not they got paladins was never an issue, as they are a big part of the new lore. Blizzard had to make a choice between warriors and hunters, and hunters make more sense. It's all relative ...

In response to Solare, while I support your view, please do not become too protective of the section of the article :) -- Kirkburn (talk) 10:30, 7 September 2006 (EDT)

I agree with Azrael on this one; the paragraph's current wording implies that blood elves couldn't be warriors, or that they would make inferior ones, but that's not the case. It's simply not a playable race/class combination. The paragraph which follows also indicates that they don't have a strong warrior tradition, yet high elven swordsmen were a very common unit in War3.--Aeleas 14:02, 7 September 2006 (EDT)

Think of it this way: There ARE blood elven warriors, but you just can't play them because a) Their numbers may be too few and b) Blizz felt like it. =p --Kakwakas 15:11, 7 September 2006 (EDT)

Exactly, which makes the paragraphs attempting lore-based explanation regarding the lack of BE warriors not only speculative, but incorrect.--Aeleas 16:17, 7 September 2006 (EDT)

Having reviewed the section, it does not (and does not mean to) suggest that blood elven warriors do not exist. They do. However, there are likely more blood elven hunters, and they are more appropriate for where Blizzard wishes to take WoW. Blood elven warriors are probably quite good, but blood elves as a race are not predisposed to it, so fewer would gravitate towards such a life. To compare this to real life, look at who wins long-distance running - people from certain areas of the globe are better prepared for running due to their genes - this doesn't suggest there are no amazing european runners, for example, but that there are fewer.

Aeleas, in WC3 warriors/grunts are the main soldiers of the forces and it would be to disruptive to the gameplay to alter that, whether or not it is accurate. I would also be interested what sections you feel are incorrect?

Just to make this clear - the lore reasoning is suggesting why warriors are less appropriate, it is not saying at any point that warriors do not exist or are useless. In conclusion, I see no problem with the section, but have added a note to make it clear that it is not suggesting BE warriors are non-existant. -- Kirkburn (talk) 16:18, 7 September 2006 (EDT)

I find the entire thrust of the second and third paragraphs of the section to be misleading and unfounded. There is no evidence that BE are not predisposed to being warriors, that they would be weaker than an undead warrior, or as I said above that there wasn't a strong warrior-like tradition. The fact that high eleven swordsmen may have been demanded by gameplay mechanics in War3 doesn't invalidate the fact that they were included.

I haven't seen any lore-based explanation for why BE warriors aren't playable from Blizzard, so I don't see any reason for us to invent one, or even assume there is one.--Aeleas 16:28, 7 September 2006 (EDT)

Okay, I see where you're coming from. I still don't think it is really inaccurate - we know the high elves are weakened, and the blood elves get their power (to bring them above the high elves) from magic. Warriors in WoW do not use magic to any great extent, which should suggest that they would not get as much of this strength. Regarding the idea of them being proficient as rangers - this is pretty evident from everything we know, and I'm not sure why you disagree with it :/

To your second point, I have altered the title to better explain the section ("Suggested..."). And though we may not have heard an exact reason from Blizzard, they have told us that they felt hunters were more appropriate - the section aims to suggest why they would have felt this. -- Kirkburn (talk) 18:32, 7 September 2006 (EDT)

I didn't object to the fourth paragraph which explains their skill at being rangers. I'm content with the section as it is; while it does stray into speculation, the title now reflects this as per WW:LORE. Still, to my mind everything after the second sentence could be covered by the sentence "The Hunter class is the best match for continuing the tradition of high elven rangers and archers, which been have portrayed in the past as more central to the race than melee fighters." Getting into their alleged weakness (a warrior could be strong with demonic energy, just as he was presumably strong with the energy of the Sunwell in the past), discussions of the ruggedness of the terrain, orc warlocks in Orgrimmar etc. doesn't, for me, add anything beyond that initial statement.--Aeleas 18:58, 7 September 2006 (EDT)

To be perfectly honest, I don't think that most of the fourth paragraph belongs either. Unless anyone can come up with a convincing reason why that paragraph (the most speculative part or the section) soon, I shall remove much of it. -- Kirkburn (talk) 19:15, 7 September 2006 (EDT)

At the very least, that paragraph has some major wording issues. From the very start, it sounds speculative and apologetic. It needs to be better worded/editted. Pzychotix 00:33, 8 September 2006 (EDT)

I've never read anywhere that the Holy Light gives a bunch of supposed (since there were High Elven Knights in WC3) weaklings enough strength to wield Ashkandi. The paragraph is just a bunch of bull made up to justify Blizzard's decision lore-wise, when there was none to begin with! -AzraelOpacus

Woah, it was a suggestion, as is the section itself (as is noted in the title, if you would kindly take a look). And no, there were reasons for the choice, because it was made wasn't it? They felt hunters were more appropriate, and the section is attempting to suggest why. In addition, you completely ignored my explanation earlier of why it doesn't prevent any classes existing for any races. For god's sake, listen, please!

Since the fourth paragraph is rattlign nerves and causing less-than-critical thought, I'll see what I can do about it now. -- Kirkburn (talk) 16:12, 8 September 2006 (EDT)

Everyone is thinking it, I'm just saying it: It is obvious that Blood Elves would get every non-nature caster class. They would get Warlocks, Mages, and Priests because they're magic users. It was also necessary to give them Pallies, because the decision was made to give each faction the other faction's class. At this point, you have 2 open spots for Blood Elves. They won't be shamans or druids because they have no appreciation for nature. That leaves Rogues, Hunters, and Warriors. If you don't give them rogues then you've imbalanced the horde because they already have the only class that can't be a rogue. That leaves Warriors, and Hunters. The weight against warriors was overwhelming... horde has no shortage of warriors already, and giving elves the archery class probably appealed to Blizzard's marketing team... Piroko 13:48, 11 September 2006 (EDT)

I'm just wondering, Lore wise, Why they have rogues.--D3115 19:21, 19 October 2006 (EDT)

Because they can ! They're swift, they're cunning, they're somehow dark enough to be assassins, they're called "Blood" Elves, and so said Blizzard.--K ) (talk) 19:30, 19 October 2006 (EDT)

I just discovered this disucssion page, and let me hop in and say this first.

I am the guy who wrote all the stubs about why blood elf warriors are NOT found in the Horde, in the sense we know them as. All rank-and-file blood elf warriors are in touch with magic in some sense, such as the Blood Knights or Spellbreakers, and obviously being the only race who could play a Spellbreaker would be highly debilitating. Alot of it was guesswork on my part, but its a part of lorecrafting in my opinion, and if the connections are firm then its fact. I'll walk you guys through my logic, and feel free to interpret however you want if you see holes in my argument.

All blood elves need magic now more than ever since the absence of the Sunwell. Part of relieving their addiction involves using magic on a daily basis as well as feeding from it. Therefore, the complete elimination of 'regular' warriors from blood elf society. How do rogues and hunters fit in then?

Because you don't need to be exceptionally powerful to be a hunter or a rogue. If you look up any WarCraft RPG book, you will find that the blood elves ARE certainly the most physically inferior race out of all the Horde races. Their weaknesses compared to trolls, orcs and taurens are already immediately obviously. The Forsaken may not be so obvious, until you realize that the Forsaken have no need to breath air (Adjust to very big breath in-game as a balancing measure), their muscles never flag or tire and many Forsaken warriors are imbued with unholy strength in their dead tendons.

But basically, it comes down to a gameplay decision. Period. Blood elf hunters, in Blizzard's opinion and probably mine and most of yours, are simply a much more interesting play choice than a blood elf warrior. Nothing in the stubs I made are saying that blood elves CAN'T be warriors. Even a murloc can be a warrior. But would they be good ones, especially if they have essentially nothing special to offer compared to other far superior warriors in their faction? Probably not. And probably why they would depend on their strengths in lending to the war effort - magic classes, agility classes, etc.--Grid 11:06, 10 November 2006 (EST)

I've done some digging around and I think I've found a possible explanation for the 'no warrior' issue for the blood elves. If you look at their official race history in chapter five, Kael'thas took the healthiest of his warriors and joined the campaign against the Scourge. So, this probably meant that the stronger, more physically able-bodied blood elves had joined Kael'thas and are now probably in Outland. Those left behind were the ones more severely affected by the loss of the Sunwell, most likely magic users (Priests, Mages, Warlocks, etc.). As for Rogues and Hunters, their presence can be explained through the group known as Farstriders, who're often away from Quel'thalas hence weren't there during the initial massacre and when Kael'thas returned. This is not to say that the Silvermoon blood elves don't have warriors but as far as a playable class goes, there are too few of them since most of them are in Outland with Kael'thas. -- mr. peasant 21:00, 14 November 2006, (GMT)

Thanks for the addition, but I think this topic is dead at this point. I have two reasons. 1) The sentence "this does not mean that blood elven warriors may not exist in the Warcraft universe, only that they are not a playable class" is a catch-all for the problems this might create with lore. So, all lore reasoning to support why warriors are not playable for blood elves are simply invalid. 2) The rest of the section, though plausible, is speculative, emphasizing notions such as culture, terrain, tradition, etc. that don't necessarily need to be emphasized because of the first statement. In my opinion, we shouldn't spend any more time on this, since it's quite possible the folks at Blizzard could change their mind anyway at some point in the future, invalidating the entire section. User:Montag/sig 16:31, 14 November 2006 (EST)

The whole "culture doesn't favor armored men" stuff is a load of garbage. Anyone who asserts that armored soldiers are liabilities in a wooded fight... Please. Go into the woods and have your friend wear armor and you wear nothing and start swinging at each other with swords, and lets see who wins. We've all seen high elven warriors and we all know they're very common, but also it is our job to construct lore around a gameplay decision - e.a, why suddenly night elves of both genders can pursue the path of being a druid OR warrior. That said - I defend my previous statements of why they are not found as a playable class in the Horde, and if your argument is that this is speculation (Even if you were to argree with me that it's pretty good speculation in my opinion), then where does the information of Sylvanas and Loth'remar being buddy buddy come from?--Grid 03:43, 15 November 2006 (EST)

Horde Relationships

I am wary of the "Relationships with the Other Horde Races" part of the article. Where did this information come from? I don't want to change it back myself just incase but it looks like something made up. Also I think someone needs to take time to touch up the layout of the page, it is getting messy. --Pigzig 08:50, 8 September 2006 (EDT)

From various sources and inferred information. There are many lore books that probably dictate this relationship, and obviously some speculated information too, but for the most part, it's decent enough. Pzychotix 05:35, 8 September 2006 (EDT)

I disagree, this isn't anything on blizzards site or books and unless proven needs the boot. Just look at it, obviously fan written. --Pigzig 17:48, 11 September 2006 (EDT)

Even if it's not all official information, the info I believe is based mostly off the assumptions of the core race at hand. Out of all the relationship paragraphs, only the Orc one could be seen as "made up". The Tauren and Troll relationships aren't even Blood Elf specific; they're statements about those races that really wouldn't matter if it were random aliens. Finally, the Blood Elf - Forsaken relationships only stated the facts of the matters that occurred between the two factions. That certainly wouldn't be "made up". Pzychotix 23:04, 13 September 2006 (EDT)

I would agree that it is written in a rather authoritative tone without having any sort of source to back it up. If it is speculative or conjecture, it should be labelled as such, and preferably moved to another article, as per WW:LORE.--Aeleas 02:02, 14 September 2006 (EDT)

Well, after days of it annoying me I decided to remove it from the page myself. If anyone wants to contest can you give us some proof? --Pigzig 01:34, 17 September 2006

It wasnt all made up, however. Some of it is obviously true, like the fact that the elves and trolls had been at odds, and the blood elves and forsaken may hate eachother due to scourge/high elves. from my memory, it didnt specifically state "forsaken and blood elves hate one another!", it simply said that in the past they had. same with trolls. From what we know (that blizzard has stated) the orcs let them into the horde because the blood elves are much like the orcs were; under demonic control.

What we DO know is that the blood elves are in the horde, but the kael blood elves are not, to the best of our knowledge, in any way. The forsaken and the blood elves hated eachother in the past, and given its only been 3 and a half years, it is entirely possible they may still hate them. the trolls, despite being a completely different race of trolls, were the elves mortal enemies for millenia, and some of that may still linger on. the orcs were under demonic control, and the blood elves are to a small extent. the tauren want harmony in all things, and demonic magic certainly isnt harmonious. and its pretty obvious how they feel about the humans(who they hate) night elves(who hate them), and at least how some of the blood elves view the draenei(as followers of the naaru, simple tools for their power)--Haddon 03:55, 21 September 2006 (EDT)

I'm going to take contention to one point mentioned above, specifically the "troll relationship not being blood elf specific." The trolls and high/blood elves hate each other. They've hated each other for a long time and they continue to hate each other today. They both evolved from a common stock, but throughout history from the days when the highborn were exiled, they've competed for the same territories; the elves trying to drive out the trolls, and the trolls resisting. Honestly, their relationship is not much different then the Israeli-Palestine conflict, or the Irish-English conflict. They simply hate each other because they've been hating each other as long as the current generation can remember (the elves DO have generational turnover thanks to warfare). Of course, that animosity can be overcome for a common clause, although without the Orcs and Tauren it wouldn't work. Now, the Forsaken on the other hand... well, I find the forsaken being in horde to be a little over the top. They should have gotten goblins instead. The forsaken are anti-life. They're openly and actively trying to kill all life on Azeroth (human and non-human alike) and the horde simply can't be so obvilivious as to not be aware of it. For the blood elves, their bretheren who fell to the scourge ARE dead. They aren't good beings beset with evil... they are evil incarnate residing in the flesh of good people now deceased. Any good will the forsaken might harbor must obviously (to their eyes) be a deception to further their aims of obtaining whatever powers the highborn have obtained and kept from the scourge. By all rights the Silvermoon npc guards should cut down any forsaken that approach silvermoon, while humans and their allies would be regarded with angry contempt but not outright murderous hatred. Piroko 12:35, 25 September 2006 (EDT)

I thought this needed mention: the aforementioned sindo-troll feud is only true from the blood elven faction, and even then is debatable. Not only have the high elves and jungle trolls never met prior to now (on a large scale; apart from the Battle of Hyjal, of course), the blood elven grudge against them would be entirely baseless. It's the Amani trolls they've been fighting for thousands of years, and while "trolls are trolls" the two are very distinct, physically and through their mindset. Just as it's been argued time and time again that only stupidity and ignorance is provoking the orc vs. human conflict to continue at this point, there could be hostile feelings from the blood elves (entirely from ignorance) toward the jungle trolls of the Horde; however, as they are attempting to join the other races, this forces them to listen to the trolls' explanation of their 'angle' of things, so to speak (the two have no reason to be at odds; these trolls only want peace, relatively speaking), and the two should have no trouble overstepping their differences. --Pure.Wasted 17:42, 30 September 2006 (EDT)

Not only taht, but the blood elves ARE NOT THE HIGH ELVES. they were decimated by the scourge, who the forsaken are not a part of, and most of them either never were, or were after quel'thalas fell anyway. the blood elves may be physically they same, but their minds are no longer the same at all. they are not the same culture.

And the blood elves hating the trolls and forsaken would be like the entire american society hating people from india, because their skin to close to the color of middle-easterners, some of which attacked america...the jungle trolls never fought the high elves. the forsaken never fought the high elves. there is only speculation as to them hating eachother.--Haddon 17:55, 1 October 2006 (EDT)

Let me do a summary on the Blood Elves' relationship with the Horde's races Orcs: Distrust and Unfriendly. Most Orcs probably hate Elves and most Elves probably hate Orcs. Remember, the Orcs razed forests in and around Quel'Thalas during the Second War. Orcs probably hated Elves for killing many of them using magic and arrows and stuff. It is only under special circumstances and Thrall's goodwill that the Blood Elves managed to join the Horde. Trolls: Curiosity and Distrust. Elves and Amani Trolls have been killing each other for ages but for the first time, the Blood Elves are actually looking face to face with a different breed of trolls. Some will be friendly, some will sterotype trolls as a whole. Tauren: Curious and slightly friendly. Blood Elves and Tauren have never met prior to the Third War. The Blood Elves have respect for nature(though not affinity), as do the Tauren. There is absolutely NO REASON for them to hate each other. Forsaken: This is interesting. Some Hatred, Some Friendly, Some LOVE. Many forsaken were Lordaeron Men but MANY are also Quel'Thalas high Elves. This would mean it is entirely possible for family members to be on both sides. Others would stereotype undead as a whole just like the trolls. --Invin Dranoel 10:50, 15 October 2006 (EDT)

That stub was also made by me. Fan-written. I drew my own comparisons, piecing together the information I garnered from each race from various WarCraft RPG books. This speculation lies upon the grounds that the Horde are much much more forgiving and accepting than the Alliance races are. From behavior you can garner in-game now, in BC and from the past their policies are generally very inclusive. The Horde is a faction that is all about second chances. The Forsaken were included into the Horde because of the shaman and druidic elements within the Horde, and prior to that, the cannibalistic trolls were also allowed membership. Now this extends to the blood elves.

I can see the same Good Samaritan episode played out here. We can all see how the ruling elements of the Horde can see them as a people in need, and also obviously as a very powerful weapon and a new Horde presence of power in the Eastern Kingdoms. And most of all, I can see their relationship being the most interesting with the orcs and Forsaken. It is obvious what the blood elf relationship with orcs will be. Orcs as a race are not judgmental - you can find this in source material and in-game, and it is largely because the taurens took them under their wing even though both races were complete strangers to one another. The demonic energies that blood elves need to feed on constantly everyday is something any older orc - and therefore, someone in a position of power within the Horde - can easily empathize with. The Forsaken were the easiest to do. Although its iffy to say they're all going to be throwing Sweet 16s for each others kids, there is definately enough of a camaraderie or forced friendship to warrant Sylvanus and Loth'remar building instantaneous travel from Silvermoon to the Undercity. Also, lets not forget Sylvanus was a quel'dorei in her previous life, even though she completely relinquished her previous identity, and many of the Forsaken were former Scourge culled from the Battle of Quel'Thalas. That means they're high elves, and most likely some of them are 'deceased' friends or family of blood elves.

And for the record - all trolls and elves hate each other, just like all humans and orcs would hate each other. The typical Alliance human finds no difference between an orc of Thrall's Horde or a fel orc or a orc of Rend's Horde. The utter annihilation of several entire human nations has lended to that perspective. Likewise, close to around a thousand years of war against elf and troll - all kinds of trolls and quel'dorei - will lend to this perspective also. Obviously some understanding has to be reached now that the two are allied, but blood elves are a long-lived race and therefore very slow to forget.--Grid 11:06, 10 November 2006 (EST)

Azeroth blood elves vs Outland (Kael) blood elves

I was reading the article concerning the high elves and came accross the "Splintering" paragraph. It refers to how the Kael's blood elves are most likely a different "faction" of the "playable" blood elves, since all Horde (and Alliance) players, including blood elves, will obviously be able to raid Tempest Keep and (most likely) kill Kael. The current blood elf article simply states that they are trying to reunite with Kael. Now, it's pretty obvious that at some point their motivations will change, and since WoW is a very linear MMORPG, I doubt there will be an awesome plot twist to illustrate this change. I thus can only guess that, right from the start, it will be clear in the game that the Azeroth (playable) blood elves are different from the ones residing in Outland. All this to say that I think we should add at least a small note to the article, to clarify that, over the course of the game, the Azerothian blood elves will move against Illidan and Kael. Reading the article now makes people believe that they are all loyal to Kael, which is obviously not the case. Just a thought. --DarthMuffin 23:03, 15 September 2006 (EDT)

At the moment, they ARE loyal to kael, however, during the events of wow:tbc, it will likely turn out that kael either has become mad due to following illidan, and thusly kil'jaedan, or you wont fight kael at all. indeed, it is entirely possible that the blood elves will be neutral, or trying to find some way with both factions on how to free illidan, kael and vashj from kil'jaeden, as its obvious none of them wants to work for him, but they want his power.

obviously, its all my speculation, but i dont think anything should be added until we know for sure if we will fight kael, kill kael, or if hell even be in game as anything more than an NPC. it is entirely possible we will fight kael, vashj and illidan, not kill them, and they will return for more later (as i think kel'thuzad will, as well). bliz said at blizcon last year, you dont so much kill illidan as you do get in his way. i can only hope the same goes for kael and vashj, both of which are great characters i would hate to see die to a bunch of nameless players--Haddon 04:00, 21 September 2006 (EDT)

Just to throw my 2 cents in: The Blood Elves of Azeroth are loyal to Kael because, except for Rommath and his crew, they don't know what he's been up to. Most likely, as Haddon noted, they will find out that he's become one of the Wretched (was the Winnowed in an earlier build) - a Blood Elf who's lost control over their addiction and has become violently insane. At this point, the Blood Elves face a quandery - do they kill their beloved prince or do they follow him into madness?

My guess is that there will be a civil war, similar to the Onyxia event with Lady Prestor. Lor'themar Theron has relatively little reason to follow a mad Kael - Kael wasn't there when Lor'themar held the nation together with what was left of the Ranger Corps, and Lor'themar doesn't need Kael's demonic magic if Lor'themar can get Anvenena the Living Sunwell to produce arcane magic for his people. Rommath, on the other hand, has drunk the koolaid - his status and power depend on his access to Kael and the Outland magic. Vikingkingq

The added paragraph "Uneasy Trusting" kind of answers this question. Can anyone confirm the source though? There's also quite a few spelling/grammar mistakes in there. --DarthMuffin 23:00, 18 October 2006 (EDT)

That's the problem - my info isn't straight-up proven. It's a best-guess coming from what we already know, but I have no idea if it's right, and I'm not so happy with it being treated like fact. Vikingkingq

That was me again, on a ressurected controversy stub on why the blood elves we're allied with aren't going to be crazy demon harlots.

What we saw of Kael'Thas was a strike force he took along with him. The majority of blood elves were probably sent to reclaim Quel'Thalas, and this also plays into the other stubs I wrote, particularly why they can't speak Common. It's highly likely most of these blood elves were refugees from Quel'Thalas that were sent elsewhere, and not veterans from the other Great Wars, and thus would not have much contact with humans much less Common. We can also assume with how busy Kael was fighting not many messages got through to Halduron and Loth'remar, so they remain largely unaware of exactly what their Prince was searching for or what he found. Either way, they obviously will not be on good terms with each other, since both Horde and Alliance get kill him and his followers in the expansion.--Grid 11:10, 10 November 2006 (EST)

Undercity Reputation

"At E3 the blood elves had no Undercity reputation bar on their reputation tab, so blood elves may only tolerate the forsaken and not be able to raise reputation with them. This could be explained because of the blood elves distrust of the undead after the ravaging of Quel'thalas at the hands of the Scourge, but this is just speculation."

Seeing as how the game is undergoing semi-public testing right now, would anyone be able to confirm (as I strongly suspect) that Blood Elves now have an Undercity reputation tab? I would assume that sort of information would be finalized by now, and this should be updated. --Pure.Wasted 01:19, 5 October 2006 (EDT)

It's not semi-public, whatever some websites would like to believe :P There's lots of non-finalized stuff in the alpha atm, so any information from it cannot be truly trusted. Nevertheless, it is pretty much certain that they'll have a rep bar, yeah :) -- Kirkburn (talk) 04:53, 5 October 2006 (EDT)

Even if they couldnt gain rep, they would still have a rep bar..they interact with them. there isnt a single group you interact with, aside fromt he opposing faction, that you dont have some sort of rep bar for, or they are part of a larger orginization--Haddon 18:29, 6 October 2006 (EDT)

I'm the one that added that information, just because it was curious thing them not having it. But they have bat handlers outside silvermoon and such, they obviously have good relations. I want to see it cleared up too. --Pigzig 22:29, 6 October 2006.

As far as I'm getting from my friends who are playing the Beta, they start out neutral with all Horde except the Forsaken, which they are friendly with, I suppose because of Sylvannas and whatnot. AzraelOpacus 00:47, 18 October 2006 (EDT)

Okay, the lowdown is that while the other races of the Horde distrust the Blood Elves for their reckless use of magic, the forsaken are impressed by it. I am thinking the forsaken are trying to dupe Blood Elves into sharing their powers, by becoming close to them, so that in the future they can use the knowledge and power for themselves. It is doubtful they would actually care about helping the Blood Elves.--Pigzig 19:21, 21 October 2006

You can gain UC rep now. It was just a rumor and Blizz forgot to add them into the rep bar.--Grid 11:10, 10 November 2006 (EST)

"Fel energies gave Blood Elves green eyes" a false rumor?

Now, theres been this whole "fel energies caused blood elves to develop green eyes" thing for a long time. I just discovered blood elves and high elves look the same now, right down to the eyes, so doesn't that debunk it? Some Night Elves even had green eyes in Warcraft III, and until World of Warcraft their eyes didn't even glow either. I think this green eye thing was just invented as an explanation for their new models. What do you guys know about it? --Pigzig 22:29, 6 October 2006.

Most of the official night elf art I've seen shows them with glowing eyes. High elves, however, SHOULDN'T have glowing eyes unless they are heavy magic users (why all their eyes glow in BC is because Blizz doesn't care). Fel magic is a lot more corrupting, and it seems to affect its users a lot quicker. Sure, Blizz hasn't come out and said flat-out "Fel magic gave blood elves green eyes," but we've seen demonic influence on races before, and eye color is usually one of the things that change. --Kakwakas 23:17, 13 October 2006 (EDT)

High Elves don't have glowing green eyes. They have glowing blue eyes, check the WoW model viewer and select "Use NPC Skins" under "options" when you have a blood elf PC model selected. You're either seeing the eyes wrong, they changed the NPC models to have green eyes, or it's a blood elf model with pale skin, and not a high elf model. Omacron 22:31, 15 October 2006 (EDT)

I just want to point out that in the end, canon "on the ground" data trumps lore predictions 100% of the time, even when canon information is contradictory to other canon information. If the High Elf models have glowing eyes, then that is how they are. It isn't a function of Blizzard being lazy, it simply is what it is. Made up lore must conform to the game as implemented. I'm not saying they are or aren't because I'm not in the beta and don't know. Piroko

I'm not disputing that high elves have glowing eyes- they do. But they don't glow green, they glow blue. It has nothing to do with me saying "that's how lore is", that's HOW THE MODELS ARE! It's just the high/blood elf in the picture has green eyes, which only blood elf models should have, and thus, I do not think it is an actual high elf. Omacron 19:03, 16 October 2006 (EDT)

Oh wait I didn't even notice that the original comment there was that they're the same color, too. High elves shouldn't even have glowing eyes to begin with, but even the glow in BC isn't green. You're right, the glow IS blue, but their eye color is green, so their eyes look more green than blue. Maybe when Blizz makes a seperate skin/model for high elves and can change the eye color, the glow will get the boot, too. --Kakwakas 00:49, 17 October 2006 (EDT)

Well, if you would read on what I put on talk:High_elf, you can see that the high elves DID have glowing blue eyes in warcraft games prior- look at the High Elven priests from WCIII.

Yes, but dragonhawk riders, high elven swordsmen, high elven archers, WC2 elves, etc didn't. What gave high elven priests glowing blue eyes? Hmmm. It would seem Holy magic gives glowing eyes sometimes, too. --Kakwakas 01:43, 18 October 2006 (EDT)

Dance, magic, dance! Omacron 16:43, 18 October 2006 (EDT)

Anyway, not all Night Elves had glowing yellow eyes either, it's really just a stylistic change for WoW I guess. Though I do like that at least all elves have glowing eyes, gives 'em something more than just being pointy eared humans, and I do kinda like them.

I think the last patch may have changed some things. I believe that the mage trainer in Stormwind hadn't been updated when I first checked her, but now she has. As for high elves' eyes, they range from a brilliant blue to a soft glow, but nothing like the glow from blood elves' and night elves' eyes. Arator's eyes glow green, which I've reported as a bug.--Aeleas 21:00, 23 October 2006 (EDT)

That was me again. I made the 'fel energy gives blood elves green eyes' change. It's a straight parallel between orcs with burning red eyes, which is an immediately proven trait that the orc is still infused with fel blood. The condition manifests itself differently in different species. Draenei have a similar trait, for example. The difference is with the playable BC blood elves their eyes don't burn as brightly because they aren't completely gorged by it.--Grid 10:55, 10 November 2006 (EST)

Some Douchebag editing and "hacking" the page.

Dude, theres a asshole editing and hacking the page . His user name is Ghhf. Can someone PLEASE ban this guy ? --Pulyx

WoWWiki:Known vandals --Tinkerer 11:20, 20 October 2006 (EDT)

Damn it, he deleted the WHOLE page. Does this site block by IP so he won't make another account and start doing it again ? --Pulyx

Unfortunately, this is how wikis work - plus he could get another IP if he really wanted anyway. He's banned, in any case :) -- Kirkburn (talk) 13:13, 20 October 2006 (EDT)

Is it possible to revert to a more recent version? - Vikingkingq

Evil Never Looked So Sexy

Who the heck put that caption? It's pretty dorky sounding.

Blizzard, I believe.. --Tinkerer 12:35, 20 October 2006 (EDT)

I think its dumb too. Lets change it. --Pigzig 01:00, 24 October 2006

The denial is as thick as.. as... jelly brains. User:Montag/sig 21:43, 1 November 2006 (EST)

The Blood Elves Motives

I have heard alot of that these Blood Elves are loyal Kael' Thus and that they always try to get themselves united. But, why would the Former High Elves who had killed many orcs and hated them for so long, want to join the Horde??? I have a theory. The History of the Orcs is that Kil' jeaden took over the Orcs by pouring Mogthedorians Blood into a well, or something like that. Over 1,000 years later, the Blood Elves swore loyalty to Illidan, thus swearing Loyalty to Kil' jeaden. So Kil' jeadan obvioussly wanted to keep an eye on his former subjects (not only Orcs but the Forsaken that were formerly Scourge that he created) by uniting some Elves that had no idea that they joined the Burning Crusade. So obviously some high ranking Blood Elf must know of Kil' jeadans plan. Who believes it?

Hmm, sounds like a good theory, but I'm pretty sure that's not why; it has already been explained why the blood elves joined. And it's not that much of a stretch; in warcraft iii, at the end, the humans, aided by high elves, joined forces with the horde and night elves. The blood elves know that the orcs they have allied with have changed greatly since the second war, losing the bloodthirst that Mannoroth's blood gave them. PS This would go in the analysis section, I believe. --Blackmorsel

Vandalism

It's not fun to come back to an article and find it's been destroyed by vandalism. If it occurs, revert it back to how it was before using the history tab! Don't attempt to 'fix' it by editing what was changed, as this can just cause futher problems when I try to find out what was lost and whether it's still on the page :/ The last bit of vandalism completely messed up the page ... Thanks! :) -- Kirkburn (talk) 15:21, 21 October 2006 (EDT)

Extra margins?

Is there a compelling reason for the 3% left margin at the beginning of each section? User:Montag/sig 16:01, 27 October 2006 (EDT)

Yes. Readability. :) -- Kirkburn (talk) 16:15, 27 October 2006 (EDT)

It seems out of place, considering that no other articles have this margin. I took a look at the article without the margin and it doesn't seem to add or reduce readability all that much, but that's just my opinion. If it's generally agreed that it needs it, definitely keep it, but I haven't seen any discussion on the issue. If not, I'd say chuck it, to keep it more standard. User:Montag/sig 17:10, 27 October 2006 (EDT)

It's generally added to articles which are long and have many many sections. I personally would add it to more articles if I had the time. -- Kirkburn (talk) 17:43, 27 October 2006 (EDT)

I dunno. Somehow it looks ugly to me, kind of like a tacked-on way of making blocks of text more readable where you could probably just cut down on the wording or fragment the paragraphs a bit. But that's me. If it's general policy, should we create a category for increasing readability of larger articles? More people could probably participate then. User:Montag/sig 17:50, 27 October 2006 (EDT)

I think a manual of style would greatly help the wiki by improving consistency in article formatting, and allowing issues like this to be discussed and resolved on way or another. I've put some initial adaptations of Wikipedia's Manual of Style at User:Aeleas/Manual_of_Style; I'll work on it some more and then possibly propose it for discussion as a guideline.--Aeleas 01:58, 28 October 2006 (EDT)

Languages

Beta Tester here - Not sure who wrote in the Sindassi language, but my in game beta client shows the languages for my Blood Elf are Thalassian and Orcish. ~~ Silvermist

Someone edited it back out. Can someone care to elaborate? ~~ Silvermist

Edited it back. Confirmed from another beta tester that they speak Thalassian. This may mean updates of Sindassi and Thalassian are required. -- Kirkburn (talk) 11:48, 2 November 2006 (EST)

Confirmed here also regardless of beta fyi --Gryphon 19:17, 2 November 2006 (EST)

They've all be changed back again. Not by me. ~~ Silvermist

Here ya go. ~~ Silvermist

We believe you, we do! :) Ooh, I can't wait to get started playing the beta ... -- Kirkburn (talk) 21:39, 2 November 2006 (EST)

Sorry, I requested them, just to be on the safe side. Sindassi should still be mentioned, just to clarify. --Ragestorm 21:48, 2 November 2006 (EST)

Certainly. It's been assumed for so long, it would be silly to remove it straight away. -- Kirkburn (talk) 08:31, 3 November 2006 (EST)

Blood elf size

Sonjaaa added a section saying the Blood elf males were bulked up for the fans. This is not true, and Blizzard have specifically said the opposite. It was to bring them more in line with the concept art. -- Kirkburn (talk) 16:24, 3 November 2006 (EST)

I think this is debateable. Several beta forum posters on the EU beta website made several posts arguing that the Blood Elves were "too gay" - notably not referring to their size, but focusing rather on their emotes, jump spin, and their loot animation (which apparently resembled preparation for anal sex). Not long after, Nethaerea explains the change as the Blood Elves being changed to appear more masculine. I think adding two and two together here makes sense, especially since the concept art is hardly conclusive either way. Vikingkingq

Stereotyping ftl. No, it does not deserve a place in the article, especially with that kind of reasoning. -- Kirkburn (talk) 10:11, 4 November 2006 (EST)

Personally the whole thing makes me mad. I mean all the other races have males that are way too buff and unnatural looking... can't we have one race of slimmer males?

Well we have blue stubs from Nethaera explaining that they were bulked up with the intention that they look more threatening, which they do now. That is how they came across in the concept art, and that is how they come across here. The lore reasoning could be (And again, I'm making this up with an educated guess) that the fel energies they feed upon would have a similar physical effect on them as they did the orcs.. Which is making them more physically robust.

To be honest the change is so minor people would not have noticed if they didn't announce anything. I think the reasons mostly lie, as this game should rely on, for gameplay reasons. It's much easier to model the blood elves now that they expanded some parts of their anatomy. There were reports before that their skeletal frames were breaking up and 'poking' out of the body. These complaints are now gone.

Although, I am disappointed they didn't go with the original concept art of making blood elves appear much more Middle Eastern-based.--Grid 11:19, 10 November 2006 (EST)

Beta Testers: Screenshots of hair/face styles wanted

I'd love to see an image file included in this article that had the various blood elf hair styles and facial features available at the character creation screen. A beta tester with some time and image editing software would be best for this job. The best way to do this would probably be to get a bunch of screenshots of male and female blood elves at the character creation screen, use GIMP or some other editing software to crop out the heads, place them in a grid pattern and post it to the site. You certainly wouldn't have to include every possible combination, but I think getting the gist of the available options for hair styles, colors, and facial features would be great for people who can't cycle through it themselves. User:Montag/sig 19:41, 5 November 2006 (EST)

Image of Leaders/not sure how to format

Hey, I'm something of a techno-novice, but I found an image of all three Blood Elf racial leaders that someone in the beta had posted on WoW's forums. I'm not so sure that the Lor'themar and Halduron angles are usable, but someone who knows how to do such things could maybe crop Rommath for use in his character bio page (linked off of main Blood Elf page). http://www.wowwiki.com/Image:Leaders.jpg Vikingkingq

Common controversy

The article states that there is no evidence that "blood elves" would ahve even known common. This is in fact wrong because the RPG states specifically that blood elves know Thalassian and Common as their main two languages. So the lack of common in the game is more of a gameplay mechanic than anything. Sure its possible that Blood Elves languages could be retconned in the upcoming Hord, or Dark Factions sourcebook but there is nothing to know that for sure. That being said some form of Common(common, undercommon, low-common) is a language known by most races in Azeroth, not just in the alliance but also in the Horde. This is likely often the case because its kind of a universal trade language, spread by goblins and what not. Its also used to explain why it seemed as if every character in previous warcraft games, and novels are able to understand each other with a single language even though they may not have anything in common with each other or no previous encounters with those races.Baggins 13:59, 9 November 2006 (EST)

Second that. High elves were once part of the Alliance and therefore knew common in order to communicate with humans and dwarves (as the Alliance did not include gnomes or night elves until WoW). Since blood elves are simply renamed high elves, there's no lore reason for them not to know common, only a game reason. User:Montag/sig 16:45, 9 November 2006 (EST)

Could someone who has a lot of forum experience please tell me how much of an issue this is? I find it a little hard to believe that so many people are complaining about this to call it a controversy. --Ragestorm 17:06, 9 November 2006 (EST)

Agreed, I'm not sure of how a big a controversy it really is. I've only seen it brought up occasionally in random WOW forums, but I don't recall it becoming a big debate.Baggins 19:11, 9 November 2006 (EST)

There are many things in the WarCraft RPG books that are not considered canon in-game because of in-game evidence. i.e - Ratchet in the RPG book is a huge metropolitan resort, with a booming population, casinos, bars, shows, gaudy lights, etc. It's intended to be a mix of somewhere like Hong Kong and Las Vegas, with an emphasis on Vegas. Also, there is nothing in the WarCraft RPG books to discourage any race learning Common, because in reality.. I mean come on, really. If WoW were real is ANYTHING keeping an orc from becoming a mage, or a gnome from becoming a priest? No, nothing is. Same goes for language. These reasons exist because of gameplay, and the answer is, that is simply that. Our job is to try to find some reasoning to compromise a gameplay decision and smooth it along to be believable in the context of lore.

I wrote that stub, and I find it the most plausible explanation. In regards to it's place as a controversy, it was pretty big once the race was announced, and still pops up now and again. It was one of the main arguments used against the inclusion of blood elves into the Horde, because the idea that an entire race seemingly forgot a language overnight was inplausible.--Grid 11:23, 10 November 2006 (EST)

The size of the world in game is limited due to technical issues in that a computer could not handle scale of a real sized world. So nothing about geography in the game can be considered canon as far as scale is concerned. That is the world in game is only a few miles across, and can be crossed in a short period of time, only a few minutes when previous novels, games, and RPG claim it would take weeks to cross... Not to mention if you counted in game population based in NPCs living in houses, well WOW's population is severely unrealistic(not to mention missing characters brought up in other sources). However according to Metzen, Warcraft Canon is combination of the games, spin off literature and the rpg, and is not limited to just one source of information. Just because you don't see somethin in the game doesn't mean it isn't canon, its just a limitation in what the game can portray. Another way of explaining it is the game isn't trying be an accurate portrayal of the world, but is more of interpretive portrayal of the world. That being said instances dungeons, and battlegrounds are often as large as the zones you enter them from. So its possible that dungeons and instance dungeons are to a normal scale, even though the overworld they link from isn't. Baggins 19:41, 10 November 2006 (EST)

Then by that note in the WarCraft RPG book, we are to say that all Forsaken know how to speak Common. So suddenly did they magically lose this ability when applied to the actual gameplay of WoW? It wasn't even reconciled as Underwater Breathing was in the game.

It's still my opinion the information about blood elf languages in the WarCraft: RPG Book was created for the sole purpose of the table top game only, and is not part of the greater canon.--Grid 03:49, 15 November 2006 (EST)

Evil?

What is the meaning of the text beneath one of the Blood Elven pictures: "Evil has never looked so sexy" ? ´Who's evil?

Odolwa 23:51, 9 November 2006 (EST)

I think it's the official caption, so named because the Blood elves are just over than thin, winding line between good and evil. --Ragestorm 18:57, 9 November 2006 (EST)

I think you could make a good case for them being the most evil playable characters thus far, depending on your definition of evil. User:Montag/sig 19:16, 10 November 2006 (EST)

How about "downright bastards" :P -- Kirkburn (talk) 21:08, 10 November 2006 (EST)

Downright bastards.. or Tragic Heroes? User:Montag/sig 22:38, 10 November 2006 (EST)

Try "all of the above", although I quibble with the word "tragic." One question: in whose book (apart from the sindorei) does leeching holy engergy from an angelic being not count as evil?--Ragestorm 00:46, 11 November 2006 (EST)

Victims of circumstance might be a better term. But, having said that, I want them to be evil. User:Montag/sig 06:43, 11 November 2006 (EST)

How about "evil, pending redemption?"--Ragestorm 09:36, 11 November 2006 (EST)

I think I'll stick with "victims of circumstance," because they got dealt the short end of more than one stick and were beaten with a couple. User:Montag/sig 13:40, 11 November 2006 (EST)

Source of magic

Ok, I am really confused about something. So it looks like Lor'themar is pretty much portrayed as a good guy, with plans to create a new source of arcane magic using Anveena so his people won't need demonic energies and such. But I'm confused; isn't what makes a blood elf a blood elf is their use of demonic magic? And if they got the new source of arcane magic, wouldn't they just become high elves again, basically? The azerothian blood elves don't seem that evil (unlike their outland counterparts) so do people see a chance of them redeeming themselves in the eyes of the alliance somehow? Or something else? --Blackmorsel (Edit: sorry I forgot to sign, it has been fixed)

Sign your posts, please. There are two things that make a blood elf a blood elf: 1) as you say, their use of demonic magic and 2) their tribute to their slain brothers and sisters. Magically, Anveena would turn them back into High elves, if they all stopped using the demonic sources. But even if they became High again, they wouldn't rejoin the ALliance. --Ragestorm 22:06, 13 November 2006 (EST)

If Anveena could restore the Sunwell, the Blood Elves would cease to feel their constant addiction and would have no need for draining mana from sketchy or random sources. Would this make them good again? Not necessarily, but it would remove their primary motive for engaging in immoral actions. Would it make them High Elves? No. There is a very important difference in culture, attitude/philosophy, and memory between the Blood Elves and the High Elves - the Blood Elves are much more extreme/decadent/impulsive in their culture (esp. in creating new languages, styles of dress, etc.) than High Elves were, their attitude is much more utilitarian/ruthless compared to the High Elves who tended to be very stoical and contemplative, and the Blood Elves will always remember the destruction of their homeland. It's why they wouldn't ever rejoin the Alliance, regardless of whether the Alliance "forgave" them; the Blood Elves remember the Alliance leaving them to die/trying to kill off their prince and their army. Vikingkingq

Ha, loved how you said "if they became High again". Any ways, yeah I don't think they would go back to the alliance. Personally, I hope that they don't get the source from Anveena, then it would be boring to just have two factions of high elves that are so similar. Oh, and to be fair, the only Alliance members to have persecuted the Blood Elves were those under Garithos' command, who are all dead now. But knowing the warcraft story, that won't seem to make the slightest difference. Has it occured to anyone that the alliance high elves might somehow steal Anveena to get the source for themselves? --Blackmorsel

If the High elves are separated from the Blood elves by their magical habits, then they wouldn't take Anveena against her will. Again, even if they did get a new Sunwell from Anveena, they would still be Blood elves in their dress, their their name, and their affiliation, if not in their magic. --Ragestorm 17:32, 14 November 2006 (EST)

Well, I think it sort of has to happen for Blood Elves to continue as a viable race in the story, because the alternative is leading towards full-blown Burning Legion domination, and that has a way of closing off the story. However, I don't think that getting the Sunwell back will make them too similar - the attitude and the cultural shift will still be there. Vikingkingq

What makes a blood elf a blood elf is deciding to call themselves that. Yes, now there are cultural differences. If those differences were destroyed though, they'd still be different people. It's like, what would happen if 10 years after the American revolution, America returned to a monarchy. Would that suddenly make them British? Well, not really. It would make them more like Britain for sure. But the only thing that would make them British again is deciding to be British again. Same goes for the Blood Elves. Hope that argument helps. >_> --Kinst 20:40, 14 November 2006 (EST)

I always knew those bloody elves were bloody British! User:Montag/sig 20:43, 14 November 2006 (EST)

Don't knock it, I've had some of my best moments being bloodly British!--Ragestorm 20:47, 14 November 2006 (EST)

As a student of history I can tell you it's an absolute fact environment directly effects a society's culture, religion, etc. I think the characteristic recklessness and tendency towards fire magic directly correlates to the blood elf dependence on fel energy. I think if they recreated a Sunwell they would drastically change.. Maybe not revert completely, but definately change, and be much more calmer and sound minded since they'll have a generally healthy and pure source of magic to feed off.

The major lore loophole I really want to know about is why didn't high elves who were far from Quel'Thalas campaigning during the Second War not go crazy in the absence of a Sunwell? It can't have a global reach, because if it did, the original Well of Eternity would have allowed all mortal races in Azeroth's antiquity to practice magic as well. --Grid 01:18, 15 November 2006 (EST)

I've been wondering that myself. The nearest that I can figure is that those farther away were used to not drawing on it too heavily, and thus only suffered minor drain and confusion, and were able to find traditional arcane sources, or else (like Vereesa and those working for the Kirin Tor) were in close contact with other mages who were able to help them. --Ragestorm 09:14, 15 November 2006 (EST)

Although the major exception there is Kael'thas, who was also away at the time of its destruction. User:Montag/sig 12:25, 15 November 2006 (EST)

The Sunwell's range isn't that of the Well of Eternity, but it probably covered at least Lordaeron at least. Also, the Runestones limited access to its power to the High Elves, and even then more for purposes of blocking cravings - use for powering spells tended to be restricted to the royal family, trusted advisors, and mages in service to the crown. Moreover, losing access to the Sunwell doesn't drive you crazy, it makes you feel the addiction - your ability to either withstand your need/suffer withdrawal or sate your addiction was what determined if you went crazy. As for the larger point of their culture, as a fellow historian, I would argue that prior events have an indelible effect regardless of current environment - witness the hoarding behavior often displayed by survivors of the Great Depression, even when they existed at a time of material plenty. The Blood Elves would certainly feel better, because they have a source of mana, but all of the rage/despair/guilt/etc. of the destruction of their homeland and many of their people will continue to effect them. You don't forget things like that, even if things get better afterwards. Vikingkingq

But by the beginning of TFT, we know that the newly named blood elves desperately seek any source of magic to feed off of. My guess is that they simply meditated like the high elves in the WarCraft RPG books do.

But most likely, Chris Metzen simply forgot to make it work within the larger context of lore again in his excitement. But that's why people like us exist to keep it all accountable.--Grid 15:24, 15 November 2006 (EST)