Talk:Alexandros Mograine

I removed a long story about Scarlet Commander Mograine. Nobody on the US realms has downed Mograine yet, and so the only evidence to support it is based on translations of Korean screenshots, which may or may not be accurate. IMO, it should remain off the page until this can actually be verified.

I got a site linked to it

http://wow.gamemeca.com/special/section/html_section/wow/focus/info_board/view.html?subcode=c0583&page=1&search_kind=title&search_text=%BE%D6%BD%AC&id=4079&gid=4033&head=

go on and enter this site-its in korean, but the pictures are pretty clear-and I can understand Korean pretty much, so if you need understanding, I'll even translate it for you

you guys just couldn't get it.

Blizzard said they won't add it? Then it confirms that my story was just too correct...You reach Outland, and Mograine's second son will make it for you. That makes sense, doesn't it? You have to play the expansion to get Ashbringer (uncorrupted)...You have to reach Outland.

By the way, the scrypt down there is actually spoken by High Inquisitor Fairbanks. Hope it's any good to you-you probably can't understand it though.

American Test Servers probably got Players with Corrupted Ashbringer, so go on and tell them to go to the Monastry. Maybe it's changed by now-I don't know. It's the Test Realm anyways-you never know when your characters get erased.

I'm actually confused with this story and the Corrupted Ashbringer's quotes...It could be another of Metzen's mistakes, like the Draenei/Eredar.

If anyone agrees, leave a message at discussion.

P.S I may have made the mistake of saying that the player brought the cleansed Ashbringer into the Monastry-It's actually the corrupted one. didigo10

[1] contains more screens + translations of the event. --Ymihere 00:55, 14 June 2006 (EDT)

His story.. IS too sad. I hate blizz --mko 17:38, 9 July 2006 (EDT)

Ashbringer Whispers

On another website they had the recordings of what Ashbringer whispers and line 9 is wrong so unless anyone else can dispute it I'm going to change it to Truth... is... unknown... to him. It makes more sense in the context because he is talking about his son at the time and talking about the undead doesn't seem right.

2 sons

So he has two sons, the first one is Scarlet Commander Mograine (not much of a real name), and the second son is supposed to be in Outland. Can someone tell his name? --Shandris 17:03, 29 September 2006 (EDT)

While i was browsing through some forums, i entered a discussion that said that Turalyon might be Highlord Mograine's (ashbringer) second son. In the quest text, Fairbanks says this son is the PUREST of paladins and is currently in outland. Do you guys think this makes sense ? -Pulyx 11:26, 17 October 2006 (EDT)

The Scarlet Commander's real name was Renault Mograine. In Caverns of Time: Old Hillsbrad, Renault is a small boy (along with the other bosses in Scarlet Monastery, except for Doan and Fairbanks, who were adults). By the time of the Ashbringer meeting - several years before WoW's present - Turalyon was a grown man and had been lost in Outland for over a decade. His age was never truly revealed, but there are some who believe that Turalyon is too old to be the second son of Mograine. --Joshmaul 07:12, 2 June 2007 (UTC)

The second son is also a Death Knight, he appears in several screenshots of WotLK beta, his name is Darion Mograine.--Morgaur (talk) 19:27, 18 July 2008 (UTC)

Was he truly a Paladin?

People constantly come on here and make it a point to edit in he a Paladin.

I haven't seen any proof in his history or in any encounters including in Naxxramas itself or Hillsbrad that he was a Paladin.

Another thing people like to bring up is the fact he's a Death Knight, he's a Death Knight, so automatically in life he was a Paladin, that's also silly. Baron Rivendare is a Death Knight, in life he wasn't a Paladin, but a noble who sold his soul and land to the Cult of the Damned/Lich King for power(Citing the Allaince/Horde RPG Books). There are many NPCs in this game who are Death Knights and have backgrounds that don't include being a Paladin.

People also like to cite the "Righteous Fire" he uses in Naxxramas as a sign of him being a Holy man and a Paladin, in addition to that, because he was a Highlord in the Scarlet Crusade, it's automatically again assumed that he's a Paladin, similar to the Grand Crusader in Scarlet Strath.

Through in-game text/converstations(Hillsbrad/Light's Hope Chapel), and this is proven further by the encounter in Naxxramas, it was the connection between Mograine and The Ashbringer itself that allowed for him to do such things. That's still him in Naxxramas wielding the Ashbringer, using Righteous Fire, but it's the sword that allows him to call out that strength.

Furthermore, when you enter the Scarlet Monesary with the Corrupted Ashbringer and you free Fairbanks he explains how tragic it was that Mograine was killed by his own blade, because of the connection that he shared with it to begin with. He and that sword were as one, which is why upon the betrayal and his death The Ashbringer became corrupted with him.

It's not out of question that an Alliance Warrior, on in this case especially Human Warriors believe in the light, but manipulating it and training through it and believing are two different things. In life, Mograine never used any holy powers, it wasn't until after he recieved the Ashbringer that he annihlated his enemies into ash. A Warrior who believes heavily in the light but does not use Holy Powers that I can cite is Harod in Scarlet Monesary.

Another clue, was when you go to Old Hillsbrad, and view when they cleanse whatever material Ashbringer was forged from, Mograine himself doesn't help cleanse it, he's the only one out of those surrounding him that doesn't put any of The Light into the weapon(He also doesn't have a mana bar =o).

I have found nothing in the Mograine's history that has led me to believe that he was a Paladin. Did he believe in the Light? Yes. Did he wield the Light, and become a Paladin of the alliance? No. He was a Warrior(Or in this case a Knight) who fought for what he believed in, with what I describe as an amazing weapon. --Emeraude 03:49, 1 June 2007 (UTC)

The Ashbringer - pre-corruption - had a hand symbol on the disc in the blade. Look at it very, VERY carefully. The only organization to my knowledge that used an open hand as their symbol is the Silver Hand (other organizations have used fists - for example, the kingdom of Stromgarde). Did you have to be a paladin to be in the Silver Hand? Apparently not, as Isillien apparently had some affiliation with them, and he was a priest. If not a paladin, I believe you're right, and that he had to have been a warrior, if only because the Dreadnaught's Battlegear is the armor that he wore in life (and is only worn by warriors!). --Joshmaul 07:05, 2 June 2007 (UTC)

You forget a few things: Isillien was affiliated with the Silver Hand because he helped Abbendis in training new paladins, which basically can make him a member of the order, despite his position as a priest in the church (the RPG books describe Isillien as a liaison between the Church and the Silver Hand). Also, just because today's warriors wear an armor that looks similar to Mograine doesn't make him a warrior, it merely proves that a lot of warriors honor him and his fighting style (if he is a paladin, he surely would be retribution specced). Also, Mograine is bearing the title Commander and actually seems to have summoned the other paladins to him - and I highly doubt that a non-paladin within a paladin-order can simply summon other paladins to do his bidding. Additionally, let's not forget what Commander Dawnbringer said to Commander Marjhan regarding the Ashbringer: "It was not the blade, it was the man wielding it!" Tulon 17:00, 6 June 2007

Well again you're making alot of assumptions yourself. Firstly, Warriors today didn't just start wearing Dreadnaught's Battlegear to honor him. The Knights and Warriors of Lordaeron in the past wore them immediately following his controversial death according to Korfax over at Light's Hope Chapel. People forget that the Silver Hand WASN'T just a group of Paladins, there were Knights involved in that order too, and while some of them took on the training to be Paladins with help from the Church some of them didn't. I think it would be fair to call Mograine a former Knight of that order. In Warcraft 3 before Arthas destroyed Stratholme and when Uther showed up to save him in a previous mission he arrived with normal alliance Knights, the group he arrived in was referred to as his Knights of the Silver Hand. And I think it's worth noting again, at this meeting in Hillsbrad Mograine is the only one with no mana bar, and the only one who didn't use any holy powers. :) You can say Blizzard just forgot it, but you'd still be ignoring it. --Emeraude 22:07, 6 June 2007 (UTC)

You've got a point there. I know that many paladins of the Silver Hand were knights (and priests), and even more so that all paladins of the Silver Hand bear the status of a knight of Lordaeron. I've never heard, though, that some of them were unable to wield the Holy Light, as it is always described as a paladin order. Are you sure that the cavalry in WC3 is described as being part of the Silver Hand? I saw them more like an army unit under Uthers/Arthas' command. It is also strange that Mograine should be the only warrior of the Silver Hand that is mentioned in the sources. I'll also check on the Ashbringer event in the CoT - I could have sworn he was casting too, mhm. I hope the upcoming Dark Faction source sheds some more light on that. But what about Dawnbringers quote? "The power of the Ashbringer came from the man who would wield it... I was there, Commander. I watched him burn legions of undead in righteous fire before he would even unsheath the blade." This clearly sounds like Holy Wrath to me. Of course it is somewhat remotely possible that the sheer presence of the blade allowed him to use the Holy Light, but if he'd be a paladin it would make more sense. Tulon 20:30, 7 June 2007

I don't think that it was that some were unable to use the Light, but you have to choose to go through the vigorous Paladin training to become a Paladin, and it requires you to have a certain degree of mental balance, as Uther said, you can't be about Vengeance(Though Blood Elf Paladins might have a different view on that >_>). I mean what exactly is a Warrior anyway, a Warrior goes down one path to find different abilities to defend and fight, but at the same time if a Warrior wanted to become a Paladin there aren't many base differences between the two. The only difference we're asking here is if Mograine went went down the path of a Paladin, did he undertake the training, did he become a Paladin, or did he remain a Knight(Which has closer ties to today's present day Warrior class). As for Dawnbringer's quote, Mograine is a living(or unliving at the time of that quote heh) legend. It's not the first time I've heard somebody who's supposed to be all powerful referred to somebody as such, that they can annihlate their enemies before taking the actual action needed to do so(Kerrigan, Queen of Blades turning people to ash with a stare anyone?), but the fact remains that the guy MUST have unsheathed the freakin weapon to burn them into ashes with righteous flame, when you fight him in Naxxramas you confirm this much when he lights you up with righteous fire. --Emeraude 22:21, 7 June 2007 (UTC)

All the Scarlet Paladins are mostly about vengeance and they still use the Holy Light. The PnP RPG explains this with their fanatism, as in fact they would indeed lose their powers if they wouldn't believe they would be fighting for a good cause. Mograine could have teached them this. It is also of note that the only human Highlords that have ever existed in Warcraft are paladins (Uther, Taelan, Tirion, Bolvar) - granted, this might also be a title for any knightly order, since Bolvar Fordragon, whilst being a paladin, is leading Stormwind's royal guard and not a paladin order. But also keep in mind that any paladin is able to burn undead to ashes with their powers of the Holy Light (the Knights of the Silver Hand did this accidentally by trying to heal Plague-infected Alliance citizen once - the Crusaders do it on purpose). If Eligor Dawnbringer actually was there and saw Mograine do this I don't see a need for him to lie. Another case would be if he would just have heard it from somebody, but he says he saw him do it. Tulon 01:50, 18 June 2007

Evidence for Mograine being a paladin:

- He resurrects High Inquisitor Fairbanks in the Monastary event. (http://www.wowwiki.com/Corrupted_Ashbringer/Scarlet_Monastery_Event)

- Commander Eligor Dawnbringer says: "Yet you think that recovering Ashbringer will somehow turn the tide of battle? Let me let you in on a little secret, Commander. The power of the Ashbringer came from the man who would wield it... I was there, Commander. I watched him burn legions of undead in righteous fire before he would even unsheath the blade." (http://www.wowwiki.com/Ashbringer)

That quote is an eye-witness account, not a second-hand legend, so it's unlikely that he was exaggerating. (As for Kerrigan, though she may have been boasting, keep in mind that she can indeed kill people with her mind).

Keep in mind, however, that NPCs aren't restricted to a single class (Thrall, for example, was both a gladiator and a far seer, which means Warrior/Shaman in WoW terms). Mograine may well have been a Warrior/Paladin (and I'd say the same about Arthas, given that he was an extremely skilled swordsman before he even joined the Silver Hand).

Egrem 06:24, 21 June 2007 (UTC)

High Inquisitor Fairbanks wasn't resurrected, he was still quite dead, IE a ghost, if you look at him he's transparent, similar to Mograine's appearance when he arrives at the Chapel. The curse that was lifted was that he was no longer bound to the world as Undead, like Mograine was in Naxxramas. Emeraude 16:54, 25 June 2007 (UTC)

Good point. In the WoW PnP you can also multiclass. But since paladin in theory already is some sort of multiclass between warrior and priest, I'd call any warrior that is wielding the Holy Light a paladin. That's just my point of view, though. But I also forgot he resurrected Fairbanks, thanks for bringing this up again. Tulon 17:30, 23 June 2007

But we haven't seen him wielding the Holy Light, that's the problem. The eyewitness account you're referring to is and I quote "The power of the Ashbringer came from the man who would wield it... I was there, Commander. I watched him burn legions of undead in righteous fire before he would even unsheath the blade." The actual ability "Righteous Fire" is used by Mograine as an Undead Deathknight in Naxxramas, I submit to you once again, that the power of that attack is not from a Paladin, but from Mograine and the Ashbringer itself. Without Ashbringer, Mograine would not be able to do such a thing, note that he did not say used Mograine said attack without Ashbringer, but he did the said attack while in possesion of Ashbringer unsheathed. Side Misc Note: If you disarm Mograine in Naxxramas he still does his righteous fire attack. Emeraude 16:54, 25 June 2007 (UTC)

Commander Dawnbringer's point was that the righteous fire came from Mograine himself, not from the Ashbringer. If the sword did grant him the ability to cast it (whether it was sheathed or not), then he wouldn't still have that ability as a death knight (considering the weapon's corruption and that its in-game stats suggest nothing of the sort).

Regardless of what magic he can use (righteous fire rather than holy wrath or holy fire or flame strike or whatever), the fact remains that he can use magic. This suggests that he was either a Paladin, a Warrior/Priest, a Warrior/Paladin (the most likely), or maybe even a Warrior/Priest/Paladin - but not a pure Warrior.

Egrem 05:58, 27 June 2007 (UTC)

But I'm telling you he DID have the ability as a Death Knight, and it's the same ability that Dawnbringer described. The corruption of the sword is due to Mograine himself, the connection betweeen the sword and Mograine is well documented, Fairbanks himself said: "The blade and Mograine were a singular entity. Do you understand? This act corrupted the blade and lead to Mograine's own corruption as a death knight of Kel'Thuzad." Even in death the Ashbringer served Mograine, the weapon's will is still guided by Mograine's will, that is why even after you kill him and take the weapon his presence and will is a part of it. You're trying to say that he had this power without the Ashbringer, but you're ignoring the fact that the powers that Dawnbringer observed are identical to the ones he used in Naxxramas, as a Death Knight, with the sword at hand. At the time Dawnbringer observed Mograine in combat Mograine was in possession of the Ashbringer. Emeraude 12:04, 27 June 2007 (UTC)

I know he uses the ability as a death knight... that was part of my point. I'm suggesting that Mograine's righteous fire is a spell that he learned - one he could use before he got the Ashbringer, and would've continued using even if he had lost it. Eligor's statement implies as much (that the fire came from Mograine, and not the sword), and PCs that loot the Ashbringer don't gain any fire-based abilities, so I don't see any evidence for the righteous fire being connected to the sword. Egrem 21:06, 27 June 2007 (UTC)

I didn't think he meant that in a literal way. My impression of it was that he meant that had anybody else picked up the Ashbringer, they wouldn't have been able to use it like Mograine did, I think that because it was Mograine using the Ashbringer it became as effective as it did. From the conversation @ LHC, the Scarlets wanted the sword, Dawnbringer was annoyed that they thought anybody could just pick up and wield the sword, and went on to explain that it was Mograine not the Ashbringer that made the weapon and his legend so powerful. The reason there's no bond between the player and the sword is because Mograine's Will still inherits it, and it's corrupted. Also using one aspect of the light doesn't make you a Paladin, every member of the Dreanai race can call forth the light to heal themselves(Gift of the Narru). To be a actual Paladin requires much more dedicated training.

Just from what we know about the sword itself and it's nature, the material it's forged from responds to it's environment, an Orc Lieutenant first possessed the dark crystal crystal that burned Mograine's hand originally, Orcs at that time were corrupted by the Legion, which is why the crystal was also corrupted. When Mograine revealed the same crystal to his friends at Hillsbrad, they cleansed the crystal with the power of the Light. When Mograine used the Ashbringer, he and the sword became as one, there was a bond there, and they used it to purge the Undead, with Righteous Fire. When Mograine died, the shape of the sword changed as well, it became dark and tainted, so strong was his regret about his death his taint still lingers within the sword.

My view is that Mograine was a Knight, not a Warrior or a Paladin, because the description closely describes what Mograine was the best. Emeraude 18:35, 27 June 2007 (UTC)

So what about "Smite" (used on his son) and "Resurrection" (used on Fairbanks)? They're clearly abilities only usable by one who is skilled with the Holy Light, aren't they? And why should have a regular knight have a priest as his most trusted advisor? Also, keep in mind that every single leading member of the Scarlet Crusade is either a priest or a paladin - it IS a religious organization, after all. Taelan Fordring, who took Mograine's place as Highlord (and I doubt this position's responsibilities have changed), is a paladin too. BOTH ot Mograine's sons were paladins, too... --Tulon 12:10, 29 June 2007

That wasn't Smite, he used something called Forgiveness, it looks nothing like Holy Smite. He did not resurrect Fairbanks, Fairbanks is still quite dead, him returning in ghost form does not mean Mograine resurrected him. Fairbanks said that the curse is lifted, that was referring to Mograine's spirit getting redemption on his son, thus freeing him as well. There is absolutely no information on his second son, nor is having a family of Paladins mean you too will become/or were a Paladin. :) Emeraude 01:35, 25 July 2007 (UTC)

It wouldn't be absurd to think he might have been a warrior since The Silver Hand had warriors as well,look at the Aldor also they have paladins and warriors and officially they are a PRIESTLY order.But most NPC's are a combination of classes like Thrall so this argument is getting old.I for one think he was just a paladin who concentrated more on the warrior side then the priest side of his class......hope that ended it (Marakanis 21:44, 14 August 2007 (UTC))

Warrior who uses the power of the Holy Light = Paladin. Doesn't matter where the source of the power comes from. For Uther, it comes from his time training as a priest. I believe there is a ceremony to grant the power of the holy light to people. It is the only logical explaination for a ceremony that removes the powers (Read Tirion Fording). Blood Knights get their Holy Light powers from M'uru (The Captive Naaru). Dranei Paladins get their powers from being blessed by the Naaru. Is it so hard to accept that even if Morgraine gets his powers from Ashbringer, that automatically makes him a Paladin? --Invin Dranoel 14:50, 7 September 2007 (UTC)

Yes, on the grounds if any Warrior were to equip the Ashbringer Corrupted or Cleansed they wouldn't be labeled as a Paladin now would they? At least in the form of the Corrupted Blade this has been confirmed, we'll have to wait until WotLK for further answers to our questions, but because the possibility exists you can't dismiss the possibility of him being a Warrior just for the sake of ending an argument. --Emeraude 06:13, 8 September 2007 (UTC)

But if Ashbringer would grant the Warrior the ability to wield the Holy Light, they would then be considered Paladins. Your arguement is based on Game Mechanics where Blizzard obviously cannot allow Warriors to do so. He may be a Warrior before wielding Ashbringer, but so are many Paladins. I stand by Warrior + Holy Light = Paladin, reguardless of the source of power. --Invin Dranoel 09:59, 9 September 2007 (UTC)

Your arguement is based on a weapon, granting somebody the classhood of many based on it's power. That's ridiculous, I suppose if there was another weapon in existance that provided the power of Nature to the user, we'd be forced to accept them as Druids, or if the weapon had a darkness about it, we should consider them Death Knights. Perhaps maybe we should achknowledge everyone who wields Atiesh as a Warlock/Mage, because Atiesh provides direct passage to Karazhan, much like a Mage, and of course Portals = Mage. Holy fire = Paladin? I think not. To be a Paladin, to be a Shaman, to be a Druid, these things require faith, devotion, and training, simpley picking up a weapon does not make you any more a Paladin then it does make the random Warrior/Rogue who picks up Illidan's Warglaives a Demon Hunter--Emeraude 10:12, 9 September 2007 (UTC)

One problem with your argument that getting a weapon does not make you into another class. What exactly does a runeblade do to a paladin (or anyone else the weapon chooses)? Oh yeah... it turns them into a death knight. Its entirely possible that the Ashbringer is the polar opposite of a runeblade. Or on another note, its entirely possible that runeblades and whatever Ashbringer is are made of the same material, and change based upon their environment/user. Either way, you can't deny that Frostmourne destroyed what was left of Arthas's sanity. Its entirely possible Ashbringer gave Mograine the power to use the Light, and thats if he didnt already know how --Zaltann

I had a gnome warrior and with him I followed the quest chain for crafting Thunderfury as an off-hand. Thank you mama for making me a Druid!!! --N'Nanz 13:30, 9 September 2007 (UTC)

Emeraude. Remember, the AshBringer is no ordinary weapon. The Sword and Mograine, as they say "Are One". Didn't Frostmourne turn Arthas from a Paladin to a Death Knight? Why can't Ashbringer to the opposite to Mograine, turning him from a Warrior to a Paladin? Is it so hard to believe? Is there any reason to believe that Morgraine does not have the faith, the devotion and the training to be a Paladin? I think not. I do not reject the possibility that he was a Warrior prior to Ashbringer. But in becoming the Ashbringer, he has essentially put himself in a Paladin position. Unless Blizzard (specifically Chris Metzen) says explicitly that Morgraine is 100% Not a Paladin, the man is as good as a Paladin in status already. --Invin Dranoel 15:39, 12 September 2007 (UTC)

Again, you're comparing apples to oranges. Frostmourne was designed completely from the start to convert it's user into a pawn of the Lich King. Ashbringer's origin is totally different, as the material it's made from doesn't seem to have a will of it's own, or a clear purpose. The entire reason the Ashbringer became a holy weapon was because the Priests/Paladins @ Hillsbrad cleansed it and basically super-charged it with the Light, before that it was a dark crystal of the void. Mograine was simply the choosen one who wielded it. --Emeraude 16:24, 12 September 2007 (UTC)

Priests and Paladins and Morgraine created the Ashbringer for a purpose and that purpose is for its wielder to wield the Light. Ner'Zhul's intention for Frostmourne for its wielder to wield the Undeath. Their origins are not that different. Also, Frostmourne's true origin is still unknown. There is no evidence that Frostmourne was made from the start to serve the purpose it serves today. But that belongs to the Frostmourne talk page. --Invin Dranoel 12:10, 14 September 2007 (UTC)

Again, wielding the Light, and having a weapon destroy things using the Light's power are two different things, you can't say that because the weapon destroyed things using the Light, and because Mograine used it, that he was a Paladin. I don't know where you got the idea that it was made for somebody specifically to become a Paladin, it sounds like you're twisting the facts. I explained this above already, the weapon does not define somebody's class. If you read up on Frostmourne and the Lich King, you'd know that Ner'zhul specifically cast Frostmourne from his prison for the purpose of finding a host, you can read this up on Blizzard's official WotLK website here: http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/wrath/features/story/story.xml Chapter 1, page 2 "To that end, he created a small fissure in his prison, pushed Frostmourne through it, and directed his minions to carry the runeblade away from the Frozen Throne. Ner'zhul intended to use the sword as bait for a mighty champion: a loyal subject who would free him and serve as a vessel for his restless spirit." Frostmourne and Ashbringer are not the same, unless you find some bit of information that says something along the lines of "The Crusade created this weapon to make one of their own a divine being of the light, a true Paladin" or something as cheesey, you might as well stop this baseless claim/argument now. --Emeraude 13:45, 14 September 2007 (UTC)

Well when Mograine is seen in Scarlet Monastery during the event in which the player uses the Ashbringer,he kills his son and "frees Fairbanks" from undeath.That spell looked like a holy spell if you see the scene and also the effect of the spell had a "cleansing effect"(cleansing that guy of his curse)which could clasify the spell as a holy spell,and since Mograine didn't wield the ashbringer then(being in the posesion of the player) it was probably a holy spell from his own power(or like all paladins do).So i think that makes him a paladin.Any arguments?(Marakanis 23:11, 1 October 2007 (UTC))

I've seen no holy spells that look like what Mograine used to kill his son. It's literally a white line, with no defining properties, and it's called Vengeance, or something I believe, hardly holy. Fairbanks said the curse was lifted, this could be because you killed Mograine in Naxxramas, and he then just killed his son. You never actually see Mograine do any cleansing. Emeraude 02:49, 02 October 2007 (UTC)

Well holy spells are usually white or yellow and remember draenei paladins have a paladin racial Seal of Vengeance and it was still a holy spell.So I think he was a paladin (Marakanis 20:41, 9 November 2007 (UTC))

the absence of mana needs nothing, Gryan Stoutmantle is a paladin but he has no mana ---[User: Dunnsworth}

Proven. He is a paladin who wields holy powers. http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/misc/wccomic/ashbringer-sneakpeek.html Last page. Exact quote from Mograine, "What madness is this? My healing powers have no effect!" --Invin Dranoel (talk) 11:32, 12 September 2008 (UTC)

There are valid arguments for him being a paladin as well as being a warrior. I will admit that it is confusing, and its quite possible he doesn't entirely fall under either category. I don't see it being particularly important to this article in any case; its best to let the story speak for itself. --Tyrsenus t c 01:30, 18 November 2008 (UTC)

I'm sorry, but I simply HAD to add this. http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/misc/wccomic/ashbringer2-sneakpeek.html. Exact quote from Mograine. "I warn you, Zabra. Through the Light I may divine whether or not you speak falsely." So, is that enough proof for you that he's a paladin? Or do you still need to see him blast 10,000 undead with the holy light, like Tirion? Toran Wildpaw of the Frenzyheart (talk) 03:17, 18 November 2008 (UTC)

I'm not sure what you're sorry about, and I'm not here to debate what class he was. Frankly I think this is a meaningless discussion. It isn't up to us to "decide" what class he is. Let the story speak for itself in the article and let the reader arrive at their own conclusion. --Tyrsenus t c 05:40, 18 November 2008 (UTC)

Because in this case, we're not debating whether he'd be considered to have the paladin class, but whether he would be a paladin lorewise. And he is. He could channel the Holy Light and was a Knight of the Silver Hand, an order comprised almost almost entirely if not exclusively of paladins. If that's not proof enough that he was a paladin before his death then I don't know what is. -- Dark T Zeratul (talk) 07:42, 18 November 2008 (UTC)

*sarcasm on* I got it! Mograine is the first of a new hybrid priest/warrior class! The Epic Priest..with plate! *sarcasm off* Yeah this dude is a paladin i mean CMON dude if a warrior could heal (excluding draenei warriors)we'd have no purpose for paladins. The Draenei warrior has touch of the naaru, its nothing of a big heal seriously and i doubt mograine somehow got it.--You know im seriously 1337 now. ^{{T1337 to the extreme.•CThe dragon protects me...that and my MG 30 glock of course..)} 02:48, 13 January 2009 (UTC)

He isnt among the first 5 paladins, and since that, i ahvent thought of him as a paladin, when someone nearly without lore is among them... I would rether think that his power somehow come from The Ashbringer (Like the Eragon-Saphira connection, if anyone had read Eragon), with Ashbringer greatly increasing his strenght, and provoding him with power he havent had before. And the orb Ashbringer's made of, is some kind of magical object that absorbs power, increases it, and then gives it to someone able to use it... And the thing in the ashbringer preview doesnt prove him being a paladin, i would rather say a priest... i doesnt think many paladins would be able to heal something like that... But, why it shouldnt be able to be warrior/priest without being paladin? (Okay... have never played any of them... so i doesnt know if this is right...) -- Magnive (talk) 16:13, 14 June 2009 (UTC)

"Kill... Them... All!"

Quoting Ashbringer: "Kill... Them... All!" It's most likely coincidental to the fact that Metallica had a song about the "Four Horsemen" on their album entitled "Kill 'Em All". No significance, probably just coincidence, maybe just another humorous quote Blizzard stuck in there. Darkren 11:43, 19 June 2007 (UTC)

Fan Art

Mograine in life by Pulyx. (Fanart)

The fan art of Mograine has armor that looks just like the DK's armor in the new expansion's movie. What came first, the picture or the cinematic? --Mr.X8 22:24, 19 August 2007 (UTC)

It is the warrior tier three on him (Makes you wonder if he was really a pally).--SWM2448 22:25, 19 August 2007 (UTC)

Yeah I wasjust looking at the tiers when I saw it, this really makes me feel dumb. :) Mr.X8 22:36, 19 August 2007 (UTC)

The tier 3 warrior armor is, lorewise, based on the armor that Mograine wore. -- Dark T Zeratul 09:09, 2 October 2007 (UTC)

He might have been a class-merging Paladin Warrior, wearing one armor for melee fighting and another one for Paladin stuff.--K ) (talk) 17:12, 22 December 2007 (UTC)

An old argument...just to clarify out

Well when Mograine is seen in Scarlet Monastery during the event in which the player uses the Ashbringer,he kills his son and "frees Fairbanks" from undeath.That spell looked like a holy spell if you see the scene and also the effect of the spell had a "cleansing effect"(cleansing that guy of his curse)which could clasify the spell as a holy spell,and since Mograine didn't wield the ashbringer then(being in the posesion of the player) it was probably a holy spell from his own power(or like all paladins do).So i think that makes him a paladin.Any arguments?(Marakanis 23:12, 1 October 2007 (UTC)) I posted this on the "Was he truly a paladin "Section and was afraid nobody would watch since the discussion was uncontinued......(Marakanis 23:12, 1 October 2007 (UTC))

Background section

I've replaced the background section with a link to Ashbringer#History. Mograine's history is intertwined with the sword, and there's no need to have two pages with the same information. The Ashbringer article is better cited, less verbose, and IMO more closely monitored, and it would be beneficial to keep the information there. There were also some statements that were incorrect (e.g. Timolain). --Tyrsenus t c 14:21, 6 May 2008 (UTC)

Timolain was disproven?--SWM2448 21:36, 18 July 2008 (UTC)

There was never any solid evidence that Timolain crafted it. It goes back a few years when the idea got a following on the official forums and eventually many people accepted it as fact. The name "Timolain" only makes one appearance in all of Warcraft:  [Timolain's Phylactery], an item that was mistakenly added to the game. "Timolain" has never been mentioned by NPC's, quests, or in any other media.

I don't understand why the text was added back. The only reason I see that this article exists is because Mograine is an NPC, and it's our policy to have articles for all NPCs. The Ashbringer item article fully covers his story as well as other information; there's no reason to have it in two places.--Tyrsenus t c 01:03, 24 July 2008 (UTC)

Alexandros and Scarlet Crusade

Issue #2 of Ashbringer - Ashes to Ashes states that the Silver Hand(two-headed eagle tabard) splits after the death of Alexandros - his son Renault "the first commander to be promoted within the ranks of the Scarlet Crusade". This leads to controversy - he was said to be Highlord of the Scarlet Crusade but it was found after his death. Since the comic is a new source I think it makes the old information obsolete.Dakovski (talk) 12:38, 3 November 2008 (UTC)

The fate of Mograine

From Quest:The Light of Dawn :

Highlord Alexandros Mograine says: My son, there will come a day when you will command the Ashbringer and, with it, mete justice across this land. I have no doubt that when that day finally comes, you will bring pride to our people and that Lordaeron will be a better place because of you. But, my son, that day is not today.

Highlord Alexandros Mograine says: Do not forget...

<The Lich King appears>

The Lich King yells: Touching...

<The Lich King siphons Alexandros>

The Lich King yells: He's mine now...

Since this is chronogically the last appearence of Highlord Mograine, is not something to point out? --N'Nanz (talk) 09:17, October 30, 2009 (UTC)

You can point it out if you want. Did not you ask this on Talk:Quest:The_Light_of_Dawn#The_end_of_Alexandros_the_Ashbringer?--SWM2448 17:09, October 30, 2009 (UTC)

Yes, I did in fact read at last post there :P I mean do this dialogue change something to his current status or current affiliation? --N'Nanz (talk) 18:03, October 30, 2009 (UTC)

I think unless we get confirmation otherwise, he should stay dead. -- Dark T Zeratul (talk) 18:13, October 30, 2009 (UTC)

The Scourge of Scourges?

I have just read the Ashbringer comic (swedish so I might not spell this title right) and at page 20 Alexandros is called "The Scourge of Scourges", I add it to the titles but you with the english edition should look it up so we get the right title.---Wowsjostedt 18:31, November 3, 2009 (UTC)

This isn't a title that appears in the English version; I suspect it's a mistranslation of sorts. -- Dark T Zeratul (talk) 22:05, November 3, 2009 (UTC)

The English version calls him, "Scourge of the Scourge". Egrem (talk) 09:12, September 24, 2010 (UTC)