Spicy Crawdad

Old discussion

Didn't the Deathknights WILLINGLY go into the Lich King's service? Then why would this guy loose control of his body? Omacron 10:33, 16 July 2006 (EDT)

Some would, some won't. Thus who won't obey will made willingly through Kel'Thuzads special mixture. Refer to the story of Sylvanas Windrunner who became a banshee after she had been struck by Arthas. First, she was a mindless slave of the lich king, but as both, Arthas and the presence of the lich king faded from her, she regained control over her mind again, revolting against the scourge and founding the forsaken...--Thundor 06:27, 23 August 2006 (EDT)

The short answer is, he's not a Death Knight. KT may call him that, but he is in no way a Death Knight. He is an Undead Paladin, forced into the roll of a Knight that kills for the Scourge. Death Knights must willingly go into service to gain Death Knight powers.Lordrayken (talk) 12:06, September 20, 2010 (UTC)

I just had to think....Couldn't have Blizzard went even a tad further and used the riders a lá Discworld, making Zeliek the counterpart of Kaos, aka Ronnie Soak, the milkman and fifth rider of the apokalypse?--Maibe 19:40, 20 July 2006 (EDT)

Most paladins don't actually get to choose whether they want to join the Lich King or not but it doesn't mean they don't enjoy it. If you'd pay attention to Stratholme, you'd find a lone paladin inside a small chapel, named Aurius. Aurius needs an item called the  [Medallion of Faith] in order to escape the Lich King's corruption. Naturally not all paladins are "worthy" of becoming a deathknight pretty much as not all of the soliders in the War of the Spider turned into Crypt Lords

Maybe he joined the Scourge willingly but regretted his decision. Zarnks 21:10, 10 July 2007 (UTC)

On the list of famous death knights it says he uses shadow and holy powers. How? I mean

• A.) He's an undead
• B.)He's a Death Knight, the opposite of holy light users

  Mr.X8 Talk Contribs 17:12, 25 November 2007 (UTC)

He has two abilities: Holy Wrath that does Holy damage and Mark of Zeliek that is an AoE/DoT that applies shadow damage. --N'Nanz 10:04, 9 January 2008 (UTC)

He might be undead but as you can see he still retains his faith in the light and unwillingly must kill for the lich king. They probably take advantage of his faith in the light even in undeath so he can use the holy powers at their will. -- User:Whitedragon254

Maybe, sort of like how Forsaken can be healed. TheDude 03:08, 25 March 2008 (UTC)

Original and WotLK Stats

This, and many other articles on Naxxramas bosses, has been updated with its post-3.0 health. Should the old, pre-Wrath stats be preserved somehow? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Parall4x (talk · contr).

They have all been stored (except for the NPC composing the Four Horsemen) as <code>[[NAME (original)]]</code>.

Full list here : Template:Naxxramas (original)

Loremaster A'noob, Arch Druid of the Noobhoof Clan (^talk/_contribz) 19:18, February 17, 2010 (UTC)

Indeed, thanks!

Parall4x T | C 19:21, February 17, 2010 (UTC)

Sir Zeliek is still a Paladin

Nowhere in game does it say Sir Zeliek became a Death Knight. He is an Undead Paladin who is forced to do the bidding of his master. He has not abandoned his beliefs, or his faith. He is a Paladin in every sense of the class. He does not have Death Knight abilities, he has a specific Mark he is forced to use, and two Paladin abilities. He wears all Paladin armor and even has a Paladin-esque mount. Lordrayken (talk) 01:49, September 20, 2010 (UTC)

Qualifications to become an Ex-Paladin:

The Paladin Must:

Cease to be good - Sir Zeliek is as good as ever.

Willfully commits an evil act - Sir Zeliek hates what he is doing and is not willfully doing anything except yelling to help save the adventurers lives - A good act.

Grossly violates the paladin code of conduct - Sir Zeliek has never violated the Paladins Code of Conduct.

A paladin must be of good alignment and loses all light abilities if he ever willingly commits an evil act - Sir Zeliek is the only one in all of Naxx who warns the heroes, and tells them to get out. He cares about their well-being and knows of the horrors within the Necropolis.

He loses all paladin spells and abilities - This is what happens to Ex-Paladins. Has Sir Zeliek lost his Paladin Abilities? No? He is not an Ex-Paladin then! Lordrayken (talk) 02:07, September 20, 2010 (UTC)

I was wandering about this fact myself and came to same conclusions. Maybe it's like in the hunter article. Remember that there is a difference between being a hunter as in a profession, wich can be performed by any class, anyone can kill animals for food and learn to track them; and fighting like a hunter, using pets, ranged weapons and speed. Sir Zeliek is a paladin in class (that is his fighting style), but he is a "death knight" in profession (he serves as an undead risen champion, not necesarily using death knight powers to do so).

Think this can help the confusion a bit? or only mix it up more? Any toughts? Torg Snowflake (talk) 10:55, 2 November 2010 (UTC)

This is right. He is FORCED to kill for The Lich King, but he is a Paladin class wise. Lordrayken (talk) 09:35, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

I agree totally with the previous statement, the fact is a Death Knight uses opposing powers to a Paladin, much like his Four Horseman shadowey counterpart Lady Blemaux. It can also be seen that a Paladin turned scourge Death Knight tends to have a personality change also. When we look at Blemaux for example, she, assuming she was once a Paladin, would have been ardently devoted to the Light and the principles that a Paladin must follow. This coupled with her use of shadow powers confirms her transformation into a Death Knight. Where as with Zeliekm, he has no observable change in personality, still filled with mercy and sympathy for the foolish adventurers coming into Naxxramas and warning them to get out. Confirmation of his untarnished position as a Paladin is that he still uses Holy power as has been actively discussed. Without any observable change in either his personality or his abillity to use Holy magics or attacks we can - I feel - confirm he is a paladin... all be it a dead one :)

Might I also add as a foot note that it is a testiment to his faith and slatwart devotion to his faith in the Light that he not only can he resist the Lich King's corrupting influence, retaininng his personality but that he uses Light abillities in an undead body. This would be excrutiatingly painful (as although it is not impossible for an Undead person to use Light magic, it does not agree with the host and actively works against them, as when an Undead is healed via Light magic it doesn't heal the wound, it sauterising it, burning it shut.) I admire this Paladin.

With Bolvar Fordragon now in command of the majority of the Scourge in cataclysm, although unlikely, I think reasonably, he could still come back from Naxxramas and return as a member of the Argent Crusade. Just a nice thought... He'd be significantly awesome xD

Extractum (talk · contr)--Paladin-General of Stormwind 22:25, 1 December 2010 (UTC)

Sir Zeliek is a Death Knight

It is in fact stated in game that he is a Death Knight. Eligor Dawnbringer states "The most powerful Death Knights within Naxxramas are the four horsemen. They represent the pinnacle of Kel'Thuzad's guard."

Pyrolight (talk) 05:32, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

You just totally ignored everything that was talked about. His profession may be "Death Knight", but he is a Paladin in class. Call him a Death Knight all you want, but he has no observable personality change and does not willingly serve. Therefore he has not broken or changed his Paladin code and coupled with the fact he is using The Light, he is still a Paladin in every way. Lordrayken (talk) 09:34, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

Lock the page

This page is being vandalized by people with no accurate facts and no understanding of lore. As someone who has maintained this page for a while with accurate facts and lore, I would request that the page be locked from further edits unless new lore surfaces. Lordrayken (talk) 09:45, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

Your opinion is not Lore

What is stated in game is Lore, you opinion of his nature due to his abilities is not Lore. My understanding of Lore is very likely far better then yours.

Pyrolight (talk) 15:20, 12 December 2010 (UTC)

What defines a "Death Knight", because in this case Sir Zeliek certainly has nothing making him one other than the fact he is being FORCED to kill for The Lich King. My opinion is backed by game lore, indeed, directly stating that he would not be able to wield The Light if he were not still a Paladin. I edited the section to include reference to the fact that Zeliek is still a Paladin, but is called a "Death Knight", despite the fact he has no Death Knight abilities or spells. Lordrayken (talk) 09:15, 1 February 2011 (UTC)

You say your opinion is backed by game lore, but the game states that he is a death knight. Nothing states he is still a paladin except your own opinion. -- Dark T Zeratul (talk) 08:04, 5 February 2011 (UTC)

I would say that he is a definitely a (dead) death knight, but his paladin-like abilities blur our concept of a "class".--SWM2448 08:21, 5 February 2011 (UTC)

Once again, you are entirely ignoring the facts put forth above, he has no traits of the Death Knight class, only traits of the Paladin Class.—The preceding unsigned comment was added by Lordrayken (talk · contr).

Commander Eligor Dawnbringer calls the Four Horsemen death knights.--SWM2448 16:10, 15 February 2011 (UTC)

This is the issue you run into when you pay attention to every single tiny bit of passing information in game as opposed to looking at the bigger picture that surrounds his lore. There is no possible way a Death Knight could retain Paladin abilities, I suppose next you will be claiming the Risen Priests in Stratholme don't wield The Holy Light http://www.wowhead.com/npc=10423/risen-priest#abilitiesLordrayken (talk) 02:17, 19 February 2011 (UTC)

Where is it, as you put it, "directly stated" that a death knight cannot wield the Light? -- Dark T Zeratul (talk) 02:19, 19 February 2011 (UTC)

Where is it, as you put it challenged, that a Paladin can willingly conform to The Lich King and retain his abilities. You have got to be kidding me, if you don't realize how Paladins and The Holy Light works to the point you believe Death Knights can use The Light. This is the only way you attain Death Knight powers, by agreeing to do the Lich King's murderous acts, if you refuse, you simply lose control of your body and The Lich King does as he pleases with it. Zeliek managed to keep his MIND intact, but still lost his body. What you are not realizing is the sheer fact Zeliek is wielding The Holy Light is what shows he is NOT a Death Knight in mind, or by choosing. Just because someone puts a gun to my head and says do this doesn't mean thats who I am when I do it.Lordrayken (talk) 02:22, 19 February 2011 (UTC)

Wielding the Light has nothing to do with how good you are. There are plenty of people who wield it for evil - The Scarlet Crusade for instance. And Zeliek doesn't willingly serve the Lich King. -- Dark T Zeratul (talk) 02:41, 19 February 2011 (UTC)

Correct just as I thought, this is your total misunderstanding of The Light. Those who wield The Holy Light have to BELIEVE what they are doing is RIGHT, and for the GOOD of themselves and the people they are surrounded by. You CANNOT wield The Light if you are knowingly doing wrong and BELIEVE you are evil. All Death Knights agree to do Evil for The Lich King himself. It's unfortunate you misunderstand the lore because you shouldn't be arguing with your limited knowledge of how The Light and how Death Knights work.Lordrayken (talk) 02:57, 19 February 2011 (UTC)

"All Death Knights agree to do Evil for The Lich King himself." Speak for yourself on not knowing the lore. Death knights do not necessarily serve the Lich King willingly. Many of the first ones did. A vast majority do not, including every playable death knight and every member of the Knights of the Ebon Blade, who were raised from the dead and forced into the service of the Lich King. That Sir Zeliek is still able to wield the Light and has enough control over his own actions to plead his foes to run away and ask forgiveness for his actions speaks wonders to his faith and conviction in the Light, which is the only thing that allows him to still use it despite being a Death Knight. -- Dark T Zeratul (talk) 03:31, 19 February 2011 (UTC)

Why did you delete what I posted? Your Death Knight character willingly serves the Lich King until he starts to question it and breaks free.Lordrayken (talk) 03:59, 19 February 2011 (UTC)

Death knight characters do not willingly ask to become a death knight, they are forcibly brought back (sometimes) wanting to.--SWM2448 04:15, 19 February 2011 (UTC)

Sorry, I didn't mean to overwrite your post. I've fixed that. And, as Sandwichman said, death knight characters are forcibly returned to life. The death knight intro movie makes this abundantly clear, as does the quest where you have to kill your old friend. There are also several examples of death knight NPCs who quite obviously do not serve the Lich King willingly, including both Mograines, Thassarian, Koltira, and Deathbringer Saurfang. -- Dark T Zeratul (talk) 04:27, 19 February 2011 (UTC)