Old Gods speculation

This article or section includes speculation, observations or opinions possibly supported by lore or by Blizzard officials. It should not be taken as representing official lore.

Old Gods speculation contains theories and speculation related to the Old Gods.

Creative inspiration

It is suspected that the Old Gods are partially based on the legends of the Great Old Ones and the Outer Gods, creations from the legend of Cthulhu written by H.P. Lovecraft.

Number

Nobody knows for sure how many of the Old Gods still exist. Blizzard's History of Warcraft states that only five were present on Azeroth at the time of the titans, all of which were imprisoned. During the events of The Sundering, the dragons believed that only three remained.Template:Cite

• The only entities confirmed to be Old Gods are C'Thun within Ahn'Qiraj and Yogg-Saron under Ulduar. All other Old Gods are identified by inference, from references to mad whisperings, sleeping or buried evils, unexplainable alien embodiments, or ancient and dark religions.
• "Old God" is a term which can specifically refer to the five imprisoned by the titans, but is occasionally used for several other creatures as well.
• It has been spelled "old god" (lower case) only thrice. Template:Cite

Identifying and locating the Old Gods is difficult. The titans didn't leave landmarks saying how or where the five Old Gods were imprisoned. Current knowledge about their whereabouts is limited to recorded phenomenon, speculation, and flavor lore. Compounding the difficulty is the imprecision with which the phrase "old god" is used, so that Old Gods, their minions, and other equally powerful deities are conflated together as one group. Only C'Thun, located in Ahn'Qiraj in Silithus, and Yogg-Saron, found within Ulduar in Northrend, are confirmed to be Old Gods. The remaining three Old Gods may be in any of the following possible locations, which are explained in further detail below.

1. One may still be near Azshara or the Maelstrom.
2. One may be trapped in western Tirisfal Glades.
3. One may be impaled by the titans' Master's Glaive located in Darkshore.Template:Cite
4. One or more may be found in Desolace.Template:Cite
5. One may be Ula-Tek, nearly summoned by forest trolls in Zul'Aman, Quel'Thalas.Template:Cite
6. One may be Hakkar the Soulflayer, summoned by the trolls of Zul'Gurub, Stranglethorn.Template:Cite Template:Cite
7. One may be in the Blackfathom Deeps.Template:Cite Template:Cite
8. One may be in the Emerald Dream
9. One may be the nearly summoned Old God in Shadowmoon Valley.

More than five Old Gods

The RPG seems to imply that there may be more Old Gods than the five chained below Azeroth. The remains of one or more of these other Old Gods can be found on the surface of the world. If so, perhaps these other Old Gods are lesser ones. This would explain how some Old Gods are apparently dead, while others are easy to kill in spite of their supposed power. The Old Gods C'thun and Yogg-Saron may be eternal, and therefore, ultimately un-killable however still defeatable. This would explain why the all powerful Titans buried 5 Old Gods opposed to killing them. The Tribunal of Ages implies that if the Old Gods were killed Azeroth would have been destroyed.

Locations

Silithus

Main article: C'Thun

Maelstrom

During the events of The Sundering, an Old God manifested itself in an attempt to salvage the summoning of Sargeras through use of the Demon Soul. After the Old God's plans were thwarted and Zin'Aszhari collapsed into the swelling Maelstrom, Azshara heard the dark whispers that transformed her and her followers into the naga.Template:Cite It is highly likely that the Old God remains near the Maelstrom.

• The Warcraft novel Day of the Dragon mentions a creature known as the Manta, Behemoth of the Deep. Krasus says it was "ten times the size and strength of a dragon." It was slain at least a century before the events of Day of the Dragon.Template:Cite It is possible that this Manta is somehow linked to the Old Gods and the naga.

• Near Azshara's Coral Sea, it is believed that the ancient Sundering awakened something that dwelled in the deepest part of the ocean, something that will eventually burst forth in a tidal wave of destruction.Template:Cite

• Given the parallels with the works of HP Lovecraft, it is reasonable to see similarities with the short story Dagon. In the story, Dagon is an 'Old God' who transforms its worshippers into sea creatures, and may be the inspiration for any Old God responsible for The Sundering.

Northrend

Home of the forgotten ones.

See below.

Tirisfal Glades

It is believed that one of the imprisoned Old Gods is located beneath the Tirisfal Glades. When the high elves first landed on the Lordaeron continent, they encountered a strange force.

• "Forging inland, the high elves founded a settlement within the tranquil Tirisfal Glades. After a few years, many of them began to go mad. It was theorized that something evil slept beneath that particular part of the world, but the rumors were never proven to be true."

Also, on a more minor note, the Bloodstone Artifacts are supposedly connected to the Old God's, and they were in Undercity, within Tirisfal.

Darkshore

Main article: Master's Glaive

Desolace

File:Goliaths.jpg

One of the two Dead Goliath skeletons in Desolace.

Desolace is littered with what is believed to be bones of the Old Gods, presided over by Magram centaur necromancers and skeletons.Template:Cite In the Valley of Bones, the massive corpses of two combatants lay forever facing each other on two sides of a grand valley. It has been speculated that these bones are either Old Gods or Faceless Ones, although they most resemble Nagas, despite their huge scale.

• A goblin named Hornizz Brimbuzzle in the Kodo Graveyard provides a quest, Ghost-o-plasm Round Up, that refers to these corpses as the Dead Goliaths. The quest has nothing to do with the corpses. He just refers them as a landmark.
• However, it should also be noted that there's a skeleton of a similar massive naga-resembling beast near the coast of Stranglethorn Vale, and similar skeletons in Blade's Edge Mountains. Given that the Old Gods were limited in number, it is more likely that these were simply the remnants of destroyed behemoths rather than the Old Gods themselves. However the chance remains that the Skeletons in Blade's Edge are long dead demonic or draconic beings...

Quel'Thalas

Main article: Ula'tek

Stranglethorn

Main article: Hakkar the Soulflayer

Other location speculation

• One of the Old Gods is involved with the corruption of the Emerald Dream. Which of these is involved is unknown (although C'Thun has been eliminated as a suspect on the WoW forums), as well as the nature of its involvement. See the main article on the Emerald Nightmare for more information.
• The arakkoa in Shadowmoon Valley are attempting to summon what appears to be an Old God to Outland. The ancient and powerful evil looks exactly the same as C'Thun.

Star theory

• Speculation referred to as the "Star Theory" suggests that the Old Gods locations can be shown as a star on Azeroth starting from Stranglethorn Vale, up to Northrend, down to Silithus, up to Tirisfal Glades, and across to Darkshore. This places the Well of Eternity in the center of the star. Hyjal can be explained by the center of the "Star of Azeroth". This also explains the Legions' focus on Azeroth. Led by Sargeras, who despises the titans and Order, they may see the Old Gods as a way to destroy Azeroth. (All this information was thought up in a World of Warcraft forum topic)
• However, the "Star Theory" assumes much and provides little in the way of explanation.
  • First, it ignores the known manifestation of the Maelstrom Old God.
  • Second, the present day locations of the Old Gods may not be the same geographical locations when they were imprisoned, long before the Sundering.
  • Third, the existence of the "South East Old God" is unknown and speculative. Hakkar may be an Old God or simply a minion, but even if he is an Old God, he was not always located in Stranglethorn Vale. He was summoned there. This theory also thought that this piece of concept art was an Old God on Hiji.

Old God minions and possible Old Gods

Master's Glaive

The dead forgotten one in the Master's Glaive is believed to be an Old God or at least one of their minions.

It is speculated that the corruption befalling Blackfathom Deeps is actually the effect of the Master's Glaive, given the corpse's not only proximity, but ability to attract followers.

Forgotten Ones

The forgotten ones are massive and powerful tentacle-bearing aberrations living in the deepest reaches of Azjol-Nerub. Forgotten ones seethe below, eager to return to the world above. Arthas fought one of forgotten ones on his way to the Frozen Throne. The forgotten ones may be lesser Old God or their minions. The faceless one mobs in the Old Kingdom are referred to as Forgotten Ones. This seems to lend credence to the idea that the Old Gods and the forgotten ones are not necessarily the same thing or that the term forgotten one is a title for Old Gods or their servant.

See Yogg-Saron, above.

Hakkar the Soulflayer

Hakkar the Soulflayer is believed to be an old god. It is speculated that he is either an Old God himself or the son of an Old God. He may also be the power behind the Emerald Nightmare.

Ula-tek the Serpent Goddess

Ula-tek is believed to be one of the Old Gods, or at least linked to them much like the Blood God Hakkar the Soulflayer.

Ragnaros

Some believe, such as the Dark Iron dwarves, that Ragnaros was not only one of the Elemental Lords but one of the Old Gods himself (or somehow took on Old God status, this is likely the dwarves' opinion relating to their awe and terror more than a genuine knowledge of how powerful the Old Gods actually were).

Summoned Old God

Summoned Old God is a creature described as an "ancient and powerful evil" who resembles C'thun and is being summoned by the arakkoa of Shadowmoon Valley. Perhaps another Old God? This is quite likely due to the similarity of its appearance, however, it may be a forgotten one. The recent summoning of Ahune in Outland makes this possible. It is a likely possibility that this is actually C'Thun himself.

Presence of the Old God

Presence of the Old God is a maw located in Icecrown which resembles C'thun. They also both share the same model. The maw is located at the bottom of some water in the middle of the Weeping Quarry, and moves and seems to be alive.

Blood of the Old God

Blood of the Old God is the name of an NPC in the Grizzly Hills. It uses a spell called "Corruption of the Old God".

Anzu

Anzu appears to be some sort of god or demigod. It is not clear if he is connected to the Old Gods but he is apparently at work in the Emerald Dream.

Aku'mai

Aku'mai, the final boss of Blackfathom Deeps, is stated to have been a favorite pet of the Old Gods. The Sundering awoke the hydra Aku’mai who claimed the ruins as her lair.

Prince Thunderaan

Prince Thunderaan is believed to be a son of Al'Akir, another of the Old Gods' Elemental Lords.

Forgotten ones

Note: All race names and mob names in Frozen Throne are capitalized. This race name is lower case in other sources.

We have seen three different forms of forgotten ones, the ones in Northrend, the remains in the Master's GlaiveTemplate:Cite and the Forgotten One mob.

The forgotten ones of Northrend are massive and powerful tentacle-bearing aberrations living in the deeps. Forgotten ones seethe below, eager to return to the world above.Template:Cite One of these ancient, terrible beasts lay imprisoned beneath Azjol-Nerub, until Illidan's attempt to melt away the polar ice-caps surrounding Icecrown and crush Ner'zhul, accidentally broke the beast's prison. Before it could act, however, Arthas Menethil, Anub'arak, and a small army of undead Nerubians crashed into its prison, and even weakened as he was, Arthas managed to defeat it. The creature in at Master's Glaive is also a forgotten one.Template:Cite

The Blizzplanet fan speculates its possible that Arthas did not manage to slay the forgotten one, and the name of this forgotten one is Yogg-Saron. However, the article points out that this is uncertain.

It might be suggested that "a Forgotten One" (implying that there are more than one), as Anub'arak referred to it, is in fact an Old God, or portion of an Old God, likely Yogg-Saron.

Forgotten one

C'Thun

Forgotten ones are not Old Gods

Some do not believe that the forgotten ones are old gods. Arguments in support include:

• C'Thun was only defeated because he was in a severely weakened state, by a raid of forty powerful and prepared people.
• Relatively, the Forgotten One showed no signs of weakness, and Arthas and Anub'arak were just two unprepared and weakened heroes supported only by a handful of regular undead troops.
• It could also be theorized that it is a "projection" of C'Thun, since the WC3 version looks incredibly similar and spawns tentacles to attack. C'Thun could have attempted to influence control over both the Silithid and Nerubians at the same time to try and raise his army, but while the C'Thun managed to control the Silithid, the Nerubians (with their natural tolerance to mind control) were not swayed and the C'Thun projection was sealed away within the depths of Azjol'nerub. But that theory is based on C'Thun using a projection-ability not mentioned anywhere else, and leaves another Old God unaccounted for. It is then more probable that "The Forgotten One" was an Old God in his own right.
• Or it could be that C'Thun was split during the Sundering, half going to Northrend and the other half staying in Kalimdor. This would explain both forms weakness.
• Another possibility is that the Forgotten One was created by C'Thun in his image, in an attempt to create an army to conquer the Nerubians, in order to re-join the old insectoid empire.
• The "Faceless One" mobs in the Old Kingdom are called Forgotten Ones which suggests that even if some Forgotten Ones are Old Gods, not all of them are. Forgotten One may be more a title or name of a faction.
• Another possibility is that the Forgotten One may be the Old God currently under Azjol-Nerub, seperate from C'Thun entirely, as when the cavern of Azjol-Nerub shifted and collapsed the Forgotten One may have been buried in its currently innaccessable deeper reaches. C'Thun and Yogg-Saron are both in very recently awakened and therefore very weakened states, and the time they could have required to come to their full power is unknown as time has no constraints on them as eternal entities.

Forgotten ones are Old Gods

• When it comes to its physical form, C'Thun is virtually identical to the Forgotten One in the Frozen Throne, except for the one in the Master's GlaiveTemplate:Cite. Also, glimpses of Old Gods in Knaak's "The War of the Ancients" are of huge tentacles, such as the ones of C'Thun and the one in Azjol'Nerub. That the "Forgotten One" would have this appearance and NOT be an Old God is far-fetched.
• It is very possible that the term "forgotten one" is what nerubians call Old Gods in general. First, Anub'arak called it "a Forgotten One", not "the Forgotten One", which suggests that there are several. Second, the sight of it scared Anub'arak, although this could be because the Nerubians were former worshipers of old gods and forced to betray by the Lich King. The forgotten one encountered there has the appearance of an Old God, an appearance not shared by anything else known in the Warcraft universe, which suggests "forgotten one" could be be a substitute title for Old God.
• The Forgotten One commanded the Faceless Ones. C'Thun also commands units that appear to be Faceless Ones, like General Rajaxx. Faceless Ones may be a general name for Old God's most elite of minions.
• It has been confirmed at BlizzCon that an old god is in Azjol-Nerub.
• A blue post on the forums recently said that the Nerubians were "followers of the Old Gods on Northrend."

Defeating the Old Gods

Many people find it hard to accept that, as with all bosses in WoW, mortals can kill an Old God. There are two theories regarding the matter.

Mortals can kill Old Gods

The Old God in Darkshore was apparently killed by the Titans long before the dawn of mortals. The rest were either believed to be slain or imprisoned. It might be that killing of other known Old Gods, such as the Forgotten One and C'Thun, can be achieved because these Old Gods were in a severely weakened and regenerative state from their previous conflicts, and were just making their way back onto the world stage.

For example, the Titans smote C'Thun ages ago, but he regenerated sufficient strength to start the War of the Shifting Sands before being struck down once again. It is possible that, after these conflicts, C'Thun was only able to regenerate to a fragment of his former strength. This would explain how modern warriors from the Horde and Alliance were able to kill him in the Temple of Ahn'Qiraj.

This also coincides with the recurring theme that the important heroes of Warcraft are all mortals who have found ways to defeat the undefeatable. In Wrath of the Lich King, it seems that the Titans may not have killed the Old Gods, because as the creators of Azeroth they are linked to it, the World's survival depending on the survival of the Old Gods.

Old Gods can never be killed

However, it is also possible that Old Gods cannot be permanently killed--their alien evil may only be contained. For example, the Old God or minionTemplate:Cite in Darkshore was left impaled upon the gigantic Master's Glaive. Had the Titans been able to truly kill an Old God, they likely would have removed the powerful weapon and slain the other Old Gods as well. That the Glaive was left behind suggests that the Old God may regenerate upon its removal as hoped for by the Twilight's Hammer, much like in some fantasy settings, the removal of a stake from a vampire's heart allows it to regenerate. That the majority of Old Gods were simply imprisoned by the all-powerful Titans could suggest that they were unkillable, but this is most likely because the Old Gods bound themselves to Azeroth in a way that if they were destroyed, Azeroth would be too. Although the Master's Glaive in Darkshore could prove this theory wrong, unless the beast there is not an Old God.

The fact that some NPCs within World of Warcraft assert that an Old God was killed by the Titans can be easily explained away by the ideas that 1) the event occurred long before any mortal could have possibly recorded it, and 2) the powers and natures of the Old Gods and Titans are admittedly beyond any mortal's scope of understanding.

Moreover, the theme that death is not the end is frequently raised in Warcraft. Many other powerful figures have survived "death" in Warcraft lore. Cenarius is more than a mere spirit within the Emerald Dream, despite having been "slain." Ragnaros is still alive, as players are only able to slay a weakened avatar. Living satyrs were born from the destroyed Night Elf, Xavius. The spirit of Medivh, the Last Guardian, was revived by Aegwynn despite his beheading. Also note the entirety of the Scourge. C'thun may also be very much "alive," as the "C'Thun" destroyed by players was a physical shell constructed for him by the Qiraji.

Factions of the Old Gods

• The naga and Azshara seem to work for an Old God.
• The nerubians may have worshiped an Old God in their ruined kingdom, but this mainly comes from official WotLK previews and Kilix the Unraveler denies this in-game.
• The faceless ones from Azjol-Nerub also worship the Forgotten One who is presumed to be an Old God.
• The Gurubashi trolls brought Hakkar to Azeroth, Hakkar is called an old god by the trolls. Brann believes its either an Old God, or the offspring of an Old God.
• The black dragonflight and Deathwing were maddened under the influence of the Old Gods.
• Sargeras himself might be manipulated by an Old God, as it would have greatly helped him when he turned his back on the Titans.
• Qiraji worship one of the two yet defeatable Old Gods, C'thun.
• The arakkoa try to summon a presumed Old God to Draenor.

The origin of the silithid and qiraji

• C'Thun created avatars from the silithid in his own image. These avatars would become known as the qiraji.
• The Azj'Aqir kingdom split, when the aqir war with the Gurubashi and Amani troll empires ended. The exact reasons are unknown. They then became known as the qiraji and nerubians.
• Thus the aqir were part of the silithid race. Some suggest that the aqir were the avatars who then later evolved into the qiraji, while another possbility is that C'Thun created the qiraji from the Silithid directly, and that the aqir and silithid are one in the same.
• Theories suggest that the qiraji were created by C'Thun from the Silithid to control them, but this is uncertain.
• The qiraji bear a slight resemblance to the Faceless Ones from a Warcraft III: The Frozen Throne campaign.

If these speculations are right, the Old Gods' plans are far deeper then the younger races of Azeroth may even think of.

Old Gods and expansion speculation

If the theories mentioned above regarding the location of the Old Gods are true, then they could likely be implemented one by one in various expansions. Check the Rumored Expansions for some of the possible settings for future expansions.

• Perhaps, one Old God could be implemented in an in-game content patch, similar to C'Thun, possibly in Tirisfal Glades, as evidence points this being the location of an Old God. As stated earlier, the region west of Deathknell is large enough to support a large instance, similar to the southern parts of Silithus before the Ahn'Qiraj patch.
• Another Old God could be implemented as the final boss for the Emerald Dream rumored expansion, as it is verified that an Old God is responsible for the Nightmare. Whether or not the players would kill a Dream Aspect of some sorts of the Old God, or his corporeal form (possibly still on Azeroth, "sleeping", or both), would have to be decided on. It is also possible that the Emerald Dream won't be an expansion in its own sense (Like The Burning Crusade), but rather part of a significant patch (Like Naxxramas in 1.11).
• Finally, the third Old God could be found in the Maelstrom with the Naga, as it is also certified that Highborne loyal to Azshara were turned into Naga by an Old God so they could survive the Sundering. It is likely they now serve the Old God, but it is also quite possible that they instead serve Neptulon.

The order in which these Old Gods were implemented would obviously depend on the order Blizzard released these rumored expansions.