Talk: Ancient Guardian

Old discussion

Its an interesting note that the RPG distinguishes between Ancients(capitalization), and ancients(non-capitalization) to differentiate between the "demi-gods" and the "trees".Baggins 11:27, 10 November 2006 (EST)

Is it really true that the Alliance Player's Guide distinguishes them by capitalization? We are basing a lot off of that.--SWM2448 06:22, 7 January 2011 (UTC)

Language

Don't Ancients have their own language? I think this was mentoined in War of the Ancients. --Ramming pure 07:43, 18 March 2007 (EDT)

If so we need to add the information to the article, with the citations. The currently listed languages are the ones that the RPG says they speak.Baggins 03:12, 29 July 2007 (UTC)

Yes I read the book and it does say something about that on page 262. "The demigod — Cenarius — he taught you to speak with the trees, to cast such spells?" This is Rhonin speaking to Malfurion who could understand the language. As for the language they don't mention even what the trees say just that "The leaves of the trees began to rustle even though Rhonin could feel no wind". Rolandius (talk) 12:21, 9 June 2008 (UTC)

Err... I think they're speaking figuratively. Malfurion and other druids are communicating via their empathy for the land. Remember that Furion has also been seen "talking" to animals, stones, and the weather. I'm not saying that trees and such don't have their own language (depending on your definition), just that that sentence isn't really evidence of such.

I think we've already discussed that Ancients probably speak in humanoid languages, just slower and more Entish. --Ragestorm (talk · contr) 12:40, 9 June 2008 (UTC)

Split?

This article is the explanation for what should be placed in Category:Ancients, but it's very ambiguous to me. Do Ironbark Protector and Agamaggan really belong in the same category? I would make the category refer only to the tree-like ancients and put all the famous Ancients in category:Demigods, but then where should fox and stick bug go? Looking for advice from those more familiar with lore on what this category should contain. -- Mordsith - (talk|contr) 21:06, 28 January 2009 (UTC)

The fox and stick bug would be be demigods, too, by that split. --Ragestorm (talk · contr) 21:25, 28 January 2009 (UTC)

Ok, thanks. Then unless there's any dissent, when I get back around to this category I'm going to clarify that it's for the tree-like ancients and move all of the Ancients to Category:Demigods. -- Mordsith - (talk|contr) 21:28, 28 January 2009 (UTC)

That sounds acceptable to me. --Ragestorm (talk · contr) 21:32, 28 January 2009 (UTC)

So are we going to split this article? Something like "Ancients (race)" and "Ancients (demigods)"? Rolandius (talk - contr) 13:10, 28 April 2009 (UTC)

No. To be honest the article is fine as it is. --g0urra[T҂C] 13:15, 28 April 2009 (UTC)

With a little "cleanup" I think it looks okay now. Rolandius (talk - contr) 13:22, 28 April 2009 (UTC)

Bringing this up again, is the split still a no go?--SWM2448 22:18, September 27, 2009 (UTC)

Sethria

Ashbear, what is your reasoning for this edit? You say that just because Sethria keeps Aviana's egg that it doesn't make her a dark version of Aviana, while I say that she is a "Dark Ancient", just not one made from scratch. The implication is that she is the dark ancient. My citation, like the others, is her entire quest chain. She is the primary target of the quest chain, and no other being is ever mentioned. In Quest:A Bird in Hand, Marion Wormwing calls Sethria "She of the skies, but also of darkness." and says that "Sethria will soon be the master of the skies". In Quest:A Prayer and a Wing, Vision of Sethria says "Soon we will possess the skies." Why does she need citation, and the other do not? Because her nature is slightly different? Also, why did you remove the land-sea-air thing?--SWM2448 04:08, 9 June 2011 (UTC)

There's nothing in that entire quest chain, at all, that even remotely implies that Sethria is anything other than a twilight dragon. -- Dark T Zeratul (talk) 04:19, 9 June 2011 (UTC)

I think there is. Perhaps she was just going to rule the skies in Aviana's absence, but the implication is there. If not, then what Twilight ancient(s) would give then power over the sky?--SWM2448 04:22, 9 June 2011 (UTC)

I read all of those as simple references to her being a very powerful twilight broodmother. Their power over the sky would be a result of their possession of the twilight dragonflight as well as the removal of Aviana as a potential threat to their presence. It also seems likely that they intended to corrupt Aviana somehow. Either way, the other dark ancients were created from the ancients themselves, while I saw nothing to suggest that Sethria's birth was any different from the rest of her flight. -- Dark T Zeratul (talk) 04:25, 9 June 2011 (UTC)

Her nature is clearly different then the others, yet her goal was clearly to replace Aviana. Perhaps she needed the egg to empower herself, along with finishing off Aviana. In Quest:Finish Nemesis, it is said that "Twilight's Hammer dreamed of creating their own pantheon of twisted ancients to rule over the land, sea, and air." Lycanthoth is clearly land-based. Nemesis is made of magma and should not be in water, but Tortolla and his children are shown swimming and being fine underwater, making Nemesis sea-based. As the focus of the quest chains was saving three Ancients, it is reasonable to think that Aviana would have an air-based counterpart. That role is filled by Sethria, even if there is nothing distinctly air-based about her, beyond that she can fly. What sets Ancients apart anyway? Perhaps the "Dark Ancient" label does not exist at all.--SWM2448 04:39, 9 June 2011 (UTC)

I agree with dark, Lycanthoth and Nemesis are said to be made from goldrinn and tortolla and dark powers, Sethria is just a twilight dragon, whetever she was going to become something later she did not become it, and after she's killed she's called just a minor dragon--Ashbear160 (talk) 14:04, 9 June 2011 (UTC)

And Sethria contrary to Lycanthoth and Nemesiss looks nothing like the one made from--Ashbear160 (talk) 14:42, 9 June 2011 (UTC)

I think that she was planning to become the new air Ancient, and that not including her on the list would make it incomplete.--SWM2448 17:34, 9 June 2011 (UTC)

It's possible she needed the egg to create a dark ancient, not become one herself, since they need a piece of the original ancient to do so. Sssssssssssssssssssssssss For Pony! (^Sssss/_Slithered) 20:03, 9 June 2011 (UTC)

Lycanthoth and Nemesis are explicitly stated in quest text as being twisted gods summoned by the Twilight's Hammer. Sehtria, meanwhile, is only ever said to be a dragon (Thisalee Crow at one point even calls her a minor dragon). Marion Wormwing even calls her "Brood of the Earth Warden," which seems pretty clear. -- Dark T Zeratul (talk) 20:15, 9 June 2011 (UTC)

The other two dark Ancients did not have a direct superior. Sethria claims that she will be the master of the skies, not that she will make a master that she controls. Yes, she is a minor twilight dragon, but then where is the evil bird Ancient? Even a mention of such intent?--SWM2448 20:18, 9 June 2011 (UTC)

There isn't one. They may have intended to use Aviana's egg to create one, but it never happened. The fact that Aviana was dead (unlike Tortolla and Goldrinn) might also have something to do with it. -- Dark T Zeratul (talk) 20:20, 9 June 2011 (UTC)

Then why not allude to such a summoning ritual? Sethria seems fairly intent on having the role herself. Also, I think Goldrinn was dead, but in the Emerald Dream. Aviana was in a similar situation, and her egg was key to her resurrection. The Twilight's Hammer repressed them both.--SWM2448 20:29, 9 June 2011 (UTC)