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| + | :''Previous discussions archived: |
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| − | {{npcbox |
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| + | :* [[User talk:Eirik Ratcatcher/Archive1]] |
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| − | | image = GarroshHeartofWar.jpg |
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| + | :* [[User talk:Eirik Ratcatcher/Archive2]] |
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| − | | name = Warchief Garrosh Hellscream |
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| + | :* [[User talk:Eirik Ratcatcher/Archive3]] |
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| − | | gender = Male |
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| + | :* [[User talk:Eirik Ratcatcher/Archive4]] |
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| − | | titles = {{C-inline}} Warchief of the Horde, <br />{{Wotlk-inline}} Overlord of the Warsong Offensive, Leader of the Horde Expedition,<br />{{Bc-inline}}Son of Hellscream |
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| + | :* [[User talk:Eirik Ratcatcher/Archive5]] |
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| − | | race = Mag'har |
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| + | :* [[User talk:Eirik Ratcatcher/Archive6]] |
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| − | |creature=[[Humanoid]] |
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| − | | level = ?? (Boss) |
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| − | | character = [[Warrior]] |
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| − | | affiliation = [[Horde]], [[Mag'har]], [[Warsong Offensive]], Nation of [[Durotar]] |
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| − | | faction = Horde |
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| − | | health = 103,070,400 |
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| − | | aggro = {{aggro|-1|1}} |
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| − | | occupation = [[Warchief]] of the [[Horde]] and [[chieftain]] of the [[Warsong clan]], formerly leader of the [[Horde Expedition]], Overlord of the [[Warsong Offensive]], Master of [[Warsong Hold]], personal advisor to Thrall, and one of the military leaders of the Mag'har |
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| − | | status = Alive |
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| − | | location = [[Grommash Hold]], [[Orgrimmar]], and various other locations throughout Azeroth (see Locations) |
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| − | | relatives = {{NPC||Grom Hellscream||Grom}} (father)}} |
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| + | == No *source* heading for artifacts == |
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| − | :''"On blood-soaked fields of battle, frigid winds carried the proud [[warrior]]'s screams. In war he won the hearts of his people, and in return he shall guide their future."'' |
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| − | :—Pride of the Horde<ref>http://fortune.worldofwarcraft.com/ World of Warcraft: Cataclysm - Your Fortune Awaits</ref> |
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| + | You can change it if you want, thats just how it was on the sample page I decided to use, so I tried to make it the same for all. [[User:Kaideliana|Kaideliana]] ([[User talk:Kaideliana|talk]]) 00:23, 25 January 2011 (UTC) |
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| − | '''Garrosh Hellscream''' is the current [[Warchief]] of the [[Horde]], chosen by [[Thrall]] to succeed him in the wake of the [[Shattering]]. He is the son of [[Grom Hellscream]], a former chieftain of the [[Warsong clan]], who freed the [[orc]]s from their demonic curse by killing [[pit lord]] [[Mannoroth]]. With the [[Dark Portal Opens|reopening of the Dark Portal]], Garrosh was invited into the Horde by Thrall himself, quickly advancing to the position of personal advisor of the Warchief. Garrosh led the [[Warsong Offensive|Horde troops]] into [[Northrend]]. |
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| + | == Disambig reverts == |
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| + | ''Nothing wrong with the existing Disambig page.'' I'm sure we've been through this before - disambiguation templates on quest articles. It's not a neutral quest and the information is already on the respective quest articles, so what's wrong with a single disambiguation? --{{User:Gourra/Sig2}} 17:41, June 28, 2010 (UTC) |
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| − | ==Biography== |
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| + | :Yes, we have been through it before. I maintain that it is effectively a neutral quest regardless. The text for the quest is identical, only the particular NPC (bonfire, whatever) giving it changes between factions. The disambigs specifically point to the factionated pages. To turn your question around, what's wrong with a more descriptive disambiguation, esp given they've been there for two years without complaint? --[[User:Eirik Ratcatcher|Eirik Ratcatcher]] ([[User talk:Eirik Ratcatcher#top|talk]]) 17:50, June 28, 2010 (UTC) |
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| − | ===Early Life=== |
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| − | Garrosh is the son of [[Grom Hellscream]], and was born on [[Draenor]]. Not much is known about his younger years, as his first appearance is after the [[Second War]]. It is known that he, unlike most of the orcs, did not drink the blood of [[Mannoroth]]. |
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| + | :Just hopping in to say: Are the texts substantially the same (aside from NPCs and locations and such)? I don't see why the couldn't be combined on the quest pages ''in favor'' of having two separate 'horde' and 'alliance' pages, such as what I did at {{quest|A Show of Good Faith}} and related pages. --[[User:Sky2042|Sky]] ([[User talk:Sky2042|t]] · [[Special:Contributions/Sky2042|c]]) 17:46, June 28, 2010 (UTC) |
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| − | ===Beyond the Dark Portal=== |
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| − | {{novel-section}} |
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| − | During the [[Beyond the Dark Portal|human invasion]] of Draenor, many [[Mag'har]] - the uncorrupted orcs who settled in [[Garadar]], a stronghold in [[Nagrand]] - were ill due to the [[red pox]]. Garrosh was among them. |
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| + | ::Both of you know that I am generally in favor of that solution. So... I'm not the one you have to convince. {{=)}} --[[User:Eirik Ratcatcher|Eirik Ratcatcher]] ([[User talk:Eirik Ratcatcher#top|talk]]) 17:50, June 28, 2010 (UTC) |
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| − | [[Kargath Bladefist]] visited them at [[Garadar]] in search of warriors to aid him. Garrosh asked him about [[Grom Hellscream|his father]], and wanted to fight with him, but Kargath ignored him at first, calling the Mag'har weaklings and not orcs any more, and they could do the Horde a favor by dying. Later on Garrosh asked [[Greatmother Geyah]] about his father, but the answer caused him to enter a deep depression.{{Citation needed}}<!-- Cited as BtDP - but what page? --> |
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| + | == Torch Catching == |
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| − | ===Chieftain of the Mag'har=== |
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| + | ''Moved to [[User talk:A'noob#Torch catching guide]]'' |
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| − | [[File:Garrosh Hellscream.jpg|thumb|Garrosh in Nagrand]] |
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| − | {{bc-section}} |
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| − | Garrosh eventually rose to become an important chief among the [[Mag'har]]. He was aided by [[Jorin Deadeye]], son of the [[Bleeding Hollow Clan|Bleeding Hollow]] clan's former chieftain, [[Kilrogg Deadeye]]. When our heroes first meet Garrosh, he was sullen, pessimistic, even depressed. He was worried about the health of his clan's matriarch, [[Greatmother Geyah]], who was ill. Garrosh knew that when she died, he would be expected to lead the [[Mag'har]], and that troubled him as well. Garrosh believed himself fated to repeat his father's mistakes. |
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| + | == Twink Edits == |
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| − | Garrosh admitted that he was ashamed of his father. The last news Garrosh had had of his father was that Grom had drank Mannoroth's blood, and everything that transpired after this event was unknown to Garrosh for a long time. Indeed, Garrosh did not learn of his father's heroic death until [[Thrall]] arrived in Nagrand and re-enacted the events for Garrosh's benefit. Learning that his father had eventually overcome his weakness for power – Grom gave his life so that the orcs would be free of demonic influence – Garrosh appeared to gain strength and confidence, believing he is no longer fated to fail himself and his people. |
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| + | Thank You for not immediately deleting the twink category and allowing us to discuss it beforehand. Part of the reason that I put Whirlwind in the category in the first place was that even when it was an active BG for the 19s there were a lot of people from Ruin declaiming it and stating that Ruin was the only place for twinks. As you can imagine this created a lot of dismay. However, it seems that even the Whirlwind battlegroup has died off in the twink non-exp community, hence my willingness to delete my (own addmittedly) inaccurate information. {{unsigned|Fluentinjapanese}} |
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| − | ===Theramore Peace Summit=== |
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| − | {{comic-section}} |
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| − | [[Thrall]] brought with him Garrosh Hellscream back to [[Azeroth (world)|Azeroth]] to be his advisor. Later on the retired gladiator master [[Rehgar Earthfury]] also became one of Thrall's advisors. Rehgar and Garrosh used to be in disagreement with each other: while Garrosh wanted to destroy the Alliance, who he considers the Horde's enemies, and take Azeroth for their own; Reghar wanted to remain open to diplomacy with the Alliance and conserve their treaty of non-agression with [[Theramore]]. |
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| + | == Quest chains and such == |
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| − | When Thrall decided to go to a new meeting with the human King [[Varian Wrynn|Varian]], he brought with him his two advisors, Rehgar and Garrosh, as well as some [[Kor'kron]]. Reghar recommended Thrall not to bring Garrosh with them, but the Warchief thought it would be a good idea as it would help Garrosh to re-think his attitude toward the humans. |
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| + | === Quest chains part 1 === |
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| + | What I'm really doing is prepping to move all the quests out of their pseudonamespace (ambitious, I know), and I'd like to do it without leaving links behind, i.e., move with [redirect suppressed]. The problem with <nowiki>{{:Quest:<some name>}}</nowiki> and <nowiki>{{:Quest:<some name>/Chain}}</nowiki> (and variants) is that I'd break the transclusions if I did so with redirect suppressed. |
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| + | To correct the second type of case, I've been moving those [[:Category:Quest chains|chains]] with 5+ quests to the new category and naming. To correct the first type of case, you just saw what I did (5+ rule here applies as well). The others I've been substing as appropriate. |
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| − | Garrosh, alongside Thrall, traveled in a zeppelin to [[Theramore]], where Varian and Thrall had a peaceful discussion with an eye toward mutual gain; though Garrosh thought it better for the Horde to take what they needed by force rather than exchange their resources. Varian had to leave early as [[Goldshire]] and [[Southshore]] were said to be under simultaneous distress by the Scourge. Upon exiting Theramore, the [[Twilight's Hammer clan]] invaded the city. After catching a glimpse of [[Garona]], Varian thought that Thrall had sent her to assassinate him as the [[Shadow Council]] had done to [[Llane Wrynn|his father]]. Garrosh accused the Alliance of plotting the attack in an attempt to lure him and Thrall into a trap while Varian blamed the Horde; specifically Garrosh. Though tempers flared between Varian and Garrosh, Thrall and Garrosh left Theramore peacefully. Garrosh, however, felt that Varian had insulted the orcs' honor and that by leaving peacefully the orcs were losing face at the summit. |
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| + | As for <nowiki>{{:<quest chain name>}}</nowiki>, I'm just moving the quests/summary part of each to the space. It makes it easier to categorize. |
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| − | ===Heart of War=== |
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| − | {{novel-section}} |
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| − | Garrosh appears as a character in the short story [[Heart of War]]. In the story, Garrosh recalls the events of his first visit to [[Orgrimmar]]. Being the first Mag’har to set foot on Orgrimmar, many observed him with curiosity and some with awe. He encounters an old soldier from the first war who remembers serving with his father. The retired soldier tells him that he is proud to see a portion of their orcish legacy remain and would gladly serve under him if he could. He tells Garrosh that he will make his people proud. |
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| + | To do so, I'm running [[User:WoWWiki-Skyfire|my bot account]] using AWB. --[[User:Sky2042|Sky]] ([[User talk:Sky2042|t]] · [[Special:Contributions/Sky2042|c]]) 20:31, July 8, 2010 (UTC) |
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| − | Yet not all are happy to see Grom’s legacy and heir. An orc woman named [[Krenna]] is not impressed with his lineage, as she sees Grom as the one who instilled the blood curse on her people in the first place. Nor is she impressed with Garrosh for that matter. From Krenna, Garrosh learns the harsh realities the orcs have to contend with. It is very difficult to wrest a living in [[Durotar]]. Durotar is a desert, making farming impossible. Though the markets overflow, they rely heavily on imports from distant places. Though [[Ashenvale Forest]] would be suitable for their people’s needs, Warchief Thrall prohibits them from settling there. Meanwhile Theramore soldiers continue to encroach on their land unchecked. Causing orcs like Krenna to become bitter and frustrated with her people’s leadership. |
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| + | :There are occasional chains of fewer than 5 quests that are still noteworthy. Not many, but some. Perhaps more with Cataclysm. --[[User:Eirik Ratcatcher|Eirik Ratcatcher]] ([[User talk:Eirik Ratcatcher#top|talk]]) 20:37, July 8, 2010 (UTC) |
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| − | Garrosh is enraged by her contemptuous demeanor towards Thrall and Grom and threatens to assault her if she continues her treasonous attitude. Krenna’s sister, [[Gorgonna]], intervenes to stop the fight before it started and urges Krenna to walk away. Krenna reluctantly stands down and walks away, leaving Gorgonna to apologize for her sister. Gorgonna explains to Garrosh that her sister doesn’t understand that her people live in Durotar as a way to atone for the crimes their people committed during the [[First War]]. Garrosh is also frustrated with her attitude and counters that their people did what they needed to do in order to survive and even if they did need to atone, why should the children of the orcs who had nothing to do with the war, have to suffer for the sins of their parents? Gorgonna shows him her green skin and explains that her people bear the mark and legacy of her people just the same and that she will atone in whatever way her warchief sees fit. Gorgonna tells Garrosh that he would not understand as he is a Mag’har, and because of this he is free of such a burden. |
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| + | ::Name collisions: Almost the entirety are either related to bosses or items or items (I'd estimate the number of possible collisions at a mere 10%), so it seems sensible to append (quest) to those pages. The others will be rare, and are likely already disambiguated because there are other related quest names. This actually removes a good deal of disambiguation, because there are a ton of quests that don't need "Quest:".<br />As for lines, it's because I was more properly formatting it as a definition list (";" and ":"), without the line breaks between each, otherwise MediaWiki creates a new list for each item (which isn't proper by any means!). There's probably a better way to do it overall.<br />Some, I'm sure. The few which you've already written quest chain pages for I'll keep together. The others you're going to need to hunt down for yourself. :P --[[User:Sky2042|Sky]] ([[User talk:Sky2042|t]] · [[Special:Contributions/Sky2042|c]]) 20:40, July 8, 2010 (UTC) |
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| − | Garrosh is shocked that Thrall would ever be that unreasonable. He becomes irritated at Krenna’s words and the more Garrosh reflects on them, the more he becomes increasingly frustrated and impatient. Garrosh becomes frustrated with Thrall’s lack of action against the Alliance and the Scourge; frustrated with having to divide the orcs’ resources and forces to deal with the problems of the other Horde races; frustrated to see the Scourge infect their food supplies with plague and rain death upon them while Thrall refuses to unleash the full might of the Horde. Garrosh is determined to preserve Orgrimmar and restore the orcs’ glory by any means necessary, even if he has to force Thrall’s hand to do so. |
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| + | :::In as much as it was intended as a formatting shortcut rather than a list, I'm not particularly adhering to the ";"/":" list recreation. If you think different markup would achieve an aesthetically pleasing format, please suggest it. TBH, I have done without the one-level indentation on many quest chain pages. Do you have a preference for either style? |
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| − | ===A Council for War=== |
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| − | {{wotlk-section}} |
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| − | [[File:Garrosh Thrall.jpg|thumb|270px|Garrosh and Thrall do battle in the [[Ring of Valor]].]] |
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| − | Garrosh was present later in [[Orgrimmar]] in a meeting with [[Thrall]], [[Sylvanas Windrunner|Lady Sylvanas Windrunner]], [[Varok Saurfang|High Overlord Saurfang]], [[Grand Apothecary Putress]] and [[Rehgar Earthfury]] to discuss what to do about the [[Scourge]]. After consulting Saurfang and the spirits, Thrall favored a more cautious approach to dealing with the Scourge: an advance scouting party to the frozen continent before committing troops, as well as meeting with [[Jaina Proudmoore]] to find out what the [[Alliance]] were planning to do about the [[Lich King]].<ref name=scourgeinvasion/> Garrosh however, felt that dealing with the Alliance would put the Horde in danger and wanted to take the Horde's armies and conquer the humans and then march to [[Northrend]] and crush the Scourge; advocating that the Horde should rule all of Azeroth.<ref name=comic20/> Thrall, irritated by Garrosh's recklessness and bold challenges to his authority, answered that the humans were not a threat<ref name=comic20/> and that he would not underestimate the Lich King by walking blindly into a Scourge trap.<ref name=scourgeinvasion/> Thrall then provoked Garrosh to challenge him to a duel by saying that he would not make the same mistakes as his father, [[Grom Hellscream]]. Frustrated with his leader's apparent lack of action and the insults to his father, Garrosh challenged Thrall to a duel in the [[Ring of Valor]] to settle the matter.<ref name=scourgeinvasion/><ref name=comic20/> |
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| + | :::... and really, the concept of looking up a quest in the main namespace is something that would take me some getting used to, after all this time. --[[User:Eirik Ratcatcher|Eirik Ratcatcher]] ([[User talk:Eirik Ratcatcher#top|talk]]) 20:46, July 8, 2010 (UTC) |
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| − | The two orcs fought for some time until it seemed Garrosh had gained the upper hand.<ref name=scourgeinvasion/> He began to taunt Thrall, but the battle was interrupted by a [[Herald of the Lich King]] threatening [[Orgrimmar]] with destruction.<ref name=scourgeinvasion/> Hearing this, Thrall used [[Chain Lightning]] on Garrosh<ref name=comic20/> and both left the ring, with Thrall telling the younger Hellscream that they would settle their dispute later.<ref name=scourgeinvasion/><ref name=comic20/> The city was attacked by countless [[abomination]]s and [[frost wyrm]]s<ref name=scourgeinvasion/> and a few [[death knight]]s.<ref name=comic20/> |
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| + | ::::It's the (most) technically correct markup. That said, I'm definitely not wedded to it either. I just don't like all that whitespace, to be honest.<br />:O :P --[[User:Sky2042|Sky]] ([[User talk:Sky2042|t]] · [[Special:Contributions/Sky2042|c]]) 20:58, July 8, 2010 (UTC) |
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| − | Thrall and Garrosh led the forces of the Horde in repelling the Scourge attack, with the help of Saurfang, Sylvanas,<ref name=scourgeinvasion/> Reghar,<ref name=comic20/> the city defenders, and some [[adventurer]]s. After the Scourge assault force had been dealt with, Garrosh asked to be sent to Northrend again. This time, Thrall agreed and ordered Saurfang to begin preparations for war.<ref name=scourgeinvasion/> |
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| + | :::::Whitespace in the markup, or in the page itself? Without at least one (additional) line break, the description turns into the aforementioned "wall of text". But that leaves the "break before the next quest" indistinct IMO. Maybe someone will suggest something, or something will suggest itself. --[[User:Eirik Ratcatcher|Eirik Ratcatcher]] ([[User talk:Eirik Ratcatcher#top|talk]]) 21:01, July 8, 2010 (UTC) |
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| − | ===War in Northrend=== |
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| − | {{wotlk-section}} |
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| − | Garrosh Hellscream was named Overlord of the [[Warsong Offensive]], the main army of the [[Horde Expedition]] to [[Northrend]]. He established his command post at [[Warsong Hold]] in the [[Borean Tundra]], on Northrend's western coast. |
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| − | [[File:Garrosh.jpg|thumb|Garrosh Hellscream, Overlord of the [[Warsong Offensive]], in Warsong Hold.]] |
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| − | Unlike his appearance in Nagrand, where he had been downtrodden and apathetic, Garrosh was much more hotblooded and reckless in his role as Horde commander in Northrend. His chief advisor, [[Varok Saurfang|High Overlord Saurfang]] - who drank from the same chalice that corrupted [[Grom Hellscream]] - warned against Garrosh's savage tactics, fearing a resurgence of the bloodlust that had dominated the Horde prior to the death of Mannoroth. The two often spared over tactical decisions, particularly in regards to supply lines between the Hold and the Forsaken forces in [[Howling Fjord]]. Even if he disagreed with Saurfang, Garrosh appeared to have at least a grudging respect for the old warrior. Saurfang warned Garrosh that if he went too far against the [[Alliance]] and lead their people down a "dark path", Saurfang himself would kill Garrosh. Garrosh did not challenge Varok, but sarcastically questioned how he had managed to survive so long without falling victim to his guilt and sense of morality. |
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| + | ::::::Both. Grab me a link so that I can see how you've done it "the other way".<br />Hmm, that last quest chain move: Should have moved it to template space and recatted it. I have no problem with keeping chains you mark as needing keeping, but the chains themselves should be template spaced. Feel free to move any other quest chains that you feel need keeping with <5 quests, or to simply recat the ones in [[:Category:Quest chains]]/[[:Category:Transcludable pages]], or to make up a list here or elsewhere so I can avoid killing those quest chains off. It would be easier for me if you did the one of the two former. That said, you've got some time to consider which ones, as I'm working through all the quest chains that gourra screwed around with. And that's 1500 quests. D: --[[User:Sky2042|Sky]] ([[User talk:Sky2042|t]] · [[Special:Contributions/Sky2042|c]]) 21:12, July 8, 2010 (UTC) |
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| − | Despite Saurfang's warning, Garrosh appointed commanders and they conducted the war in such a manner as to focus strongly on battling the Alliance. In particular, [[Conqueror Krenna]], the commander at [[Conquest Hold]] in the [[Grizzly Hills]], bucked completely the war with the Scourge in favor of making war with the Alliance. Like Garrosh, she was hotblooded to the point of recklessness in pursuing the Alliance, so much so that she had to be deposed by her sister [[Gorgonna]], an underling at Conquest Hold. The commander of [[Orgrim's Hammer]] above Icecrown was also concerned with defeating the Alliance in Icecrown, and even ''within'' [[Icecrown Citadel]], the Horde faced off against the Alliance, as the [[Skybreaker]] and Orgrim's Hammer did battle as well. |
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| + | <Indent normalization concluded> [[The Great Masquerade quest chain]] for an alternate quest chain format that avoided the indent and space issues. Looking at that, I think I prefer it to the indent-and-space method, though paragraph spacing still needs to be retained. Problem with ":" for paragraphing is that **it isn't paragraph indenting**; that is, it isn't "first line indenting". *sigh* From my PoV: moving from Q:name/chain to "name quest chain" is the same as from "Tpt:name" to "name quest chain", no? From yours: duplicates work. Problem: I can only convert so fast, and dangling quest chain pages are an offense against nature. :P |
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| − | Garrosh is a firm believer of “honorable” combat; as evidence of his deprecation of the [[Broken Front]]. Though he endorses conflict with the Alliance as much as possible, he will only permit it if it is done in a manner that fairly tests the martial prowess of the Horde. Using underhanded tactics such as poison and mind control is considered “cowardly” by his standards.<ref>[[Heart of War]], Page 6</ref> |
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| + | Small chains... I'm not *entirely* convinced I should even bother transcluding in the chain page, if all it contributes is the quest list. Esp with Cataclysm bearing down on us. --[[User:Eirik Ratcatcher|Eirik Ratcatcher]] ([[User talk:Eirik Ratcatcher#top|talk]]) 21:23, July 8, 2010 (UTC) |
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| − | ===Secrets of Ulduar=== |
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| − | {{wotlk-section}} |
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| − | [[Thrall]] and Garrosh were summoned urgently to [[Dalaran]] to speak with the leader [[Rhonin]]. Arriving before the human King [[Varian Wrynn]] had departed, Garrosh and the king proceeded to skirmish in the [[Violet Citadel]], but Rhonin halted the fight with a magical shield before harm came to either. Rhonin suggested that the [[Horde]] and [[Alliance]] work together against the new threat of [[Yogg-Saron]] in [[Ulduar]], but Garrosh and Varian were partisan to the idea and Wrynn was portalled out. Garrosh expressed the opinion that a ''true'' Warchief would never partner himself with cowards.<ref>[http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/underdev/3p1/index.xml#ulduartrailer Ulduar Official Trailer]</ref> |
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| + | :Not duplicates per se, more like separating repeatable content (template) and non-repeatable (rest of quest chain page). Think of the quest chain templates as the equivalent of Navboxes and the quest chain pages as the main topic page (e.g., [[Template:Stormwind City]] and [[Stormwind City]]).<br />Lol, offense. You don't need to convert every page. I just need to distinguish 'generic quest chain' from 'ER Approved Quest Chain'. So either recat, move to template space, make me a list, something...<br />As for ":" not being paragraph indenting: It's not supposed to be. Heh. I've been using it on the quest chain pages because that's what it's used for (or should be used for) on the Internetz. That other format of quest chain pages, for example, would more correctly use ; and :... Hmm... --[[User:Sky2042|Sky]] ([[User talk:Sky2042|t]] · [[Special:Contributions/Sky2042|c]]) 21:43, July 8, 2010 (UTC) |
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| − | ===Crusaders' Coliseum=== |
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| − | {{wotlk-section}} |
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| − | Garrosh, alongside Thrall, was later in attendance at the new [[Crusaders' Coliseum]] in Icecrown, surrounded by various champions and representatives of the Horde. During the tournament Garrosh requested that Tirion uses warriors of the Horde to challenge the [[Adventurer|heroes]] in the tournament in order to show the strength of the Horde. He will cheer on Horde players following their victories. |
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| − | {{main|Argent_Tournament#Alliance_and_Horde_leadership}} |
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| + | ::Sorry... "duplicates" as in "I did work I didn't have to". I'll do what I can. Um... "More correctly?" In that both are layout styles, I'm hard pressed to call either "correct". Especially as my standard is solely "does it look good, and link usefully?" Just because most of the internet uses crap for formatting doesn't mean we have to. "Well, you wouldn't jump off a bridge just because someone told you to, would you?" "Not again!" --[[User:Eirik Ratcatcher|Eirik Ratcatcher]] ([[User talk:Eirik Ratcatcher#top|talk]]) 21:48, July 8, 2010 (UTC) |
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| − | ===Icecrown Citadel=== |
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| − | [[File:Garrosh in Icecrown Citadel.jpg|thumb|right|Garrosh in Icecrown Citadel]] |
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| − | {{wotlk-section}} |
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| − | After [[patch 3.3.2]], Garrosh could be found at [[Light's Hammer]] inside [[Icecrown Citadel (instance)|Icecrown Citadel]]. He provided the [[Hellscream's Warsong]] buff for Horde raiding parties. If an adventurer spoke to him and told him he is not needed, the instance will have to be reset in order to gain the buff again. |
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| + | :::Oh, ok.<br />It's not that the Internet uses crap, it's that wiki (in general) doesn't do specific CSS real well (i.e., CSS handing on wiki is the crap :P). For example, on a site like ours (but without being a wiki), where they decided to make quest chain pages, they'd use the correct markup (: and ; using the HTML forms), and then give the list a separate class (e.g. "quest_chain_page"), which they could then style separately. Not so easy nor wanted for a wiki.<br />Have a think on tweaks to the format. --[[User:Sky2042|Sky]] ([[User talk:Sky2042|t]] · [[Special:Contributions/Sky2042|c]]) 21:57, July 8, 2010 (UTC) |
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| − | ===Elemental Unrest=== |
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| − | {{wotlk-section}} |
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| − | During the [[Elemental Unrest]], Garrosh defends the [[Valley of Strength]] from invading elementals. He also assists Horde players in the destruction of [[Crown Princess Theradras]] and [[Grand Ambassador Flamelash]]. |
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| + | ::::You dislike the "bullet+bold" quest names, with unindented quest description details beneath? --[[User:Eirik Ratcatcher|Eirik Ratcatcher]] ([[User talk:Eirik Ratcatcher#top|talk]]) 22:01, July 8, 2010 (UTC) |
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| − | ===The Shattering=== |
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| − | {{novel-section}} |
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| − | [[File:Gift of Gorehowl.jpg|thumb|Garrosh receives Gorehowl from Thrall]] |
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| − | [[Cairne Bloodhoof]] travels to [[Warsong Hold]] to meet with Garrosh and [[Varok]], and though impressed with the hold's fortifications, cannot help but compare it to architecture seen during the previous wars. With the war in [[Northrend]] as good as over, Garrosh is recalled to [[Orgrimmar]] to experience to a hero's celebration, in honor of the Horde's victories under his leadership. While on route, Garrosh waylays an [[Alliance]] carrier wrecked at sea. He disposes of most of its crew, reasoning that it is in Horde waters, though a distressed Cairne urges him to relent. Garrosh then gives the survivors supplies and rations, informing them that they had witnessed both the Horde's might and the Horde's mercy. Garrosh and his crew are satisfied with the outcome, though Cairne shows signs of concern. |
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| + | :::::What would you think about switching the bullet with a ":"? --[[User:Sky2042|Sky]] ([[User talk:Sky2042|t]] · [[Special:Contributions/Sky2042|c]]) 22:03, July 8, 2010 (UTC) |
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| − | Back in Orgrimmar, Garrosh and the Northrend veterans are given a warm welcome by [[Warchief]] [[Thrall]], and Garrosh encourages all veterans of the expedition to participate. A celebration is held in their honor, and Thrall later bestows [[Gorehowl]], the axe of [[Grom Hellscream]] upon Garrosh. Garrosh displays a natural affinity for the mighty weapon, like his father before him. Though the Northrend victory was a cause of great celebration in the Horde, a rough road seems to await it -- and Thrall calls upon a meeting. |
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| + | ::::::While I'm not especially pleased with it, I could probably tolerate it. It fails to attach the title (quest) to the position on the page the same way that a bullet point does. Note, though, that it's the bullet character that makes it notable for me, not the associated "element of a list" that comes with a bullet, if that is tickling you wrong. (However, between "forego the bullet point" and "insert a template that puts a bullet character there", I'd have to choose the foregoing. There has to be a balance between effort and style...) --[[User:Eirik Ratcatcher|Eirik Ratcatcher]] ([[User talk:Eirik Ratcatcher#top|talk]]) 22:11, July 8, 2010 (UTC) |
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| − | The land of [[Durotar]] is naturally harsh, and recent signs of [[elemental]] distress and disasters had further weakened the orcs' land. Now without reliable supply routes, and the [[night elves]] of [[Ashenvale]] refusing to allow trade with the Horde following the [[Wrathgate]] fiasco, the citizens of Orgrimmar are on the brink of experiencing a famine. Thrall, Cairne and [[Hamuul Runetotem]] resolve to negotiate peacefully with the night elves, as Hamuul holds a high position within the [[Cenarion Circle]] comprised of both [[tauren]] and night elves. Garrosh, however, is outraged at such a notion. Viewing the Wrathgate as a tragedy to both factions, Garrosh concludes that the night elves boast no right to stand in the way of their survival -- and that the orcs should simply take what they need to survive by force. His suggestion is rebuked by Cairne, and after a heated exchange, Garrosh excuses himself. |
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| + | :::::::Maybe with bold, it would look nice. Blgh. I'm kind of miffed any which way about it. Maybe instead of using questlong for each quest, do it my way (;:) but with quest instead? In the end, I think you should probably just do what you do and ignore me. :D --[[User:Sky2042|Sky]] ([[User talk:Sky2042|t]] · [[Special:Contributions/Sky2042|c]]) 00:51, July 11, 2010 (UTC) |
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| − | Garrosh, observing the skull of [[Mannoroth]] and lost in thought, is approached by the enigmatic [[Magatha Grimtotem]]. He immediately expresses a mild disdain for the Grimtotem matriarch, noting that hers is the only tauren tribe who had not sworn loyalty to the Horde. Magatha simply offers him words of support, ensuring him that the Grimtotem will join the Horde when needed -- and that Garrosh himself would be exactly what the orcs need, precisely when they need it. Garrosh is appreciative of that sentiment at least, and the two retire. |
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| + | An inconvenience generated by your change is that I cannot simply copy the Summary section into the quest chain description; I have to go to a separate page. (I'll point again to the whole "let's create an entirely new page just for this when it isn't necessary" thing.) --[[User:Eirik Ratcatcher|Eirik Ratcatcher]] ([[User talk:Eirik Ratcatcher#top|talk]]) 18:27, July 9, 2010 (UTC) |
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| − | The elemental upheaval begins to increase in potency, and Orgrimmar itself is caught aflame by rampant fire elementals. No longer able to properly converse with the maddened beings, Thrall decides that action must be taken to discover the cause of this chaos, and begins preperations for a journey to [[Nagrand]]. However, this is not an act he can undertake as the Warchief -- and Thrall is forced to consider a temporary replacement. Thrall's immediate thought is Cairne, though the elderly tauren was not an orc -- in times such as this, unrest would likely follow if such a decision was made. Thrall laments the death of [[Dranosh Saurfang]], who would have made an ideal Warchief, and this line of thought brings him to another conclusion; another orc who could keep the Horde together during his absence -- Garrosh. |
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| + | :But a convenience generated is that we can now see all the templates and see how terribly un-standardized they are. :D. That, and more easily separate out the templates which have an article that stands as the quest chain page and those that don't ([[:Category:Quest chain templates|Quest chain templates]] and [[:Category:Quest chain templates with articles|Quest chain templates with articles]]).<br />One more thing: In [[:Category:Quest chains]], can you decide on the two remaining /quest chain pages under "B" for me? Leave a note here on whether to keep or delete them. --[[User:Sky2042|Sky]] ([[User talk:Sky2042|t]] · [[Special:Contributions/Sky2042|c]]) 00:51, July 11, 2010 (UTC) |
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| − | Garrosh is summoned to [[Grommash Hold]], and Thrall officially names him the acting Warchief. Taken aback, Garrosh hastily mentions that his place is on the battlefield -- he knows much of war and tactics, but little of politics. Thrall ensures him that he will not be alone in this task, and that Cairne, [[Eitrigg]] and [[Vol'jin]] will be on hand to advise him. Garrosh accepts this charge. |
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| + | :And "O", if you will. --[[User:Sky2042|Sky]] ([[User talk:Sky2042|t]] · [[Special:Contributions/Sky2042|c]]) 01:58, July 11, 2010 (UTC) |
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| + | :As well as "D". And that's all for the day! --[[User:Sky2042|Sky]] ([[User talk:Sky2042|t]] · [[Special:Contributions/Sky2042|c]]) 23:33, July 11, 2010 (UTC) |
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| + | ::B, O, and D moved. Stubbed the ones I thought were most interesting, though {{quest|Decipher the Tome}} has some lore I did not remember from the alliance side, and so may be worthy. So many quest chains to document. ... does ANYONE else create them? And am I monologging? Sometimes it can be hard to tell if I'm creating something anyone actually finds useful or entertaining. --[[User:Eirik Ratcatcher|Eirik Ratcatcher]] ([[User talk:Eirik Ratcatcher#top|talk]]) 23:15, July 13, 2010 (UTC) |
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| − | Now as the highest authority figure within the Horde, Garrosh begins to repair the damage wrought on by the elemental uprising -- beginning with the remodelling of Orgrimmar. What was once little more than a village of huts, had become an aggressive bastion of a capital, reinforced by the metals used in Warsong Hold. Garrosh reasons that no fire will be able to spread again with this, and he and Cairne appear to finally see eye-to-eye. |
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| + | Heh, yeah. --[[User:Sky2042|Sky]] ([[User talk:Sky2042|t]] · [[Special:Contributions/Sky2042|c]]) 01:48, July 21, 2010 (UTC) |
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| − | However, events are set in motion outside of Garrosh's control -- the peaceful meeting between the tauren and the night elves is sabotaged by agents of the [[Twilight's Hammer]] clan, posing as agents of the Horde, who brutally murder the entire gathering and leave Hamuul as its only survivor. Hamuul, likening the agents' attitude to that of Garrosh's, informs Cairne of what had occured. |
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| − | [[File:Cairne's death.JPG|thumb|Cairne is defeated by Garrosh in a duel to the death.]] |
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| − | Cairne berates Garrosh over the events that had transpired, just as Garrosh was having a tattoo engraved. Cairne accuses him of orchestrating the unprovoked attack on the druids, though Garrosh informs him that had he been behind it, he would have announced it to the world. After another fierce exchange, their time as allies essentially breaks down, and Cairne concludes that Garrosh is not fit to lead the glorious Horde after all -- and that for the sake of the Horde, Garrosh must be dethroned. Cairne challenges him to a Mak'gora for the title of Warchief, though Garrosh ups the stakes, forcing it to be a battle to the death in an attempt to deter his opponent. Cairne, however, gladly accepts, and informs Garrosh of the rules befitting a proper Mak'gora -- the dress-code and of the shaman's blessing allowed on their weapon of choice. |
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| + | H needs an opinion. Cheers. And J could probably be added to your projects/could use your cleanup; I recall the subject of [[morrowgrain]] being fairly big. There's 3 or 4 quests other than the two on the solitary J. --[[User:Sky2042|Sky]] ([[User talk:Sky2042|t]] · [[Special:Contributions/Sky2042|c]]) 17:47, July 25, 2010 (UTC) |
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| − | Garrosh's earlier encounter with Magatha seems to have bore fruit, and the Grimtotem matriarch offers to bless Gorehowl. |
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| + | :You would hand me J and the tangle that is Morrowgrain... *sigh*. --[[User:Eirik Ratcatcher|Eirik Ratcatcher]] ([[User talk:Eirik Ratcatcher#top|talk]]) 18:16, July 27, 2010 (UTC) |
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| − | Garrosh and Cairne begin battle in the [[Orgrimmar Arena]], their fighting styles initally cancelling each other out fairly well. However, as Cairne begins to land serious blows upon Garrosh, Garrosh is backed into a corner. Garrosh attempts a desperate strike, slicing Cairne's chest and bifurcating his [[Bloodhoof Runespear|runespear]]. Though a formidable blow, it did not seem to appear fatal -- until Cairne inexplicitly collapses from it. Though surprised, Garrosh quickly takes advantage of the situation, and with one final glance at Cairne, deals him the killing blow. |
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| + | ::I am known to have certain sadistic tendencies. --[[User:Sky2042|Sky]] ([[User talk:Sky2042|t]] · [[Special:Contributions/Sky2042|c]]) 01:46, July 28, 2010 (UTC) |
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| − | Unbeknownst to Garrosh, Magatha had used him as an instrument in her betrayal of Cairne. Lacing Gorehowl with poison, she had ensured that even minor blows would be fatal to the High Chieftain. Elated, Magatha begins the next step of her plan -- the hostile takeover of [[Thunder Bluff]], and the death of Cairne's son and successor, [[Baine Bloodhoof]]. |
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| + | R has 3 /quest chains needing opinions. --[[User:Sky2042|Sky]] ([[User talk:Sky2042|t]] · [[Special:Contributions/Sky2042|c]]) 04:20, September 4, 2010 (UTC) |
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| − | Garrosh finds himself dealing with mixed emotions. Though still not entirely sure of why Cairne had accused him of such a crime, he was satisfied with the knowledge that it had apparently been a fair fight. Eitrigg quickly dispels this notion, and upon observation, the two discover traces of the same poison that had sealed Cairne's fate. Enraged and distraught, now knowing that he had unwittingly robbed Cairne of a fair fight, and that Magatha had robbed him of his own honor, Garrosh lets his rage take him. |
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| + | :Looking at them now. At this point, I'm disinclined to write up old world quest chains unless they are really special in some way, since they're going to be disappearing Very Shortly Now. --[[User:Eirik Ratcatcher|Eirik Ratcatcher]] ([[User talk:Eirik Ratcatcher#top|talk]]) 18:18, September 8, 2010 (UTC) |
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| − | Magatha, now in control of Thunder Bluff, requests aid from her new Warchief. Garrosh replies via letter, wishing her a violent demise, and ensuring her that no aid will be given -- her life is now in the hands of the [[Earth Mother]]. Having believed she had found a useful tool in Garrosh, Magatha is infuriated by his response. |
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| + | === Quest chains, part 2 === |
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| − | Without aid, Magatha and the Grimtotem still loyal to her are defeated by Baine Bloodhoof and his followers. Garrosh and Baine meet in the [[Thousand Needles]], and Garrosh attempts to mend his bridges with the equally betrayed new chieftain. Expecting the same challenge from Baine that Carine had given him, Garrosh is surprised when Baine refuses such a notion. Outing Magatha as the true traitor, Baine offers Garrosh the loyalty of the tauren people. Impressed, Garrosh gladly accepts. |
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| + | Haha, Key to Scholomance... I tried to put a chain together at Template:All Along the Watchtowers, which looks a lot like yours. Reading the comments in Wowhead, it didn't seem that it's a straight chain of each. Should I just deleted T:AAtW (it isn't used anywhere)? --[[User:Sky2042|Sky]] ([[User talk:Sky2042|t]] · [[Special:Contributions/Sky2042|c]]) 21:41, August 3, 2010 (UTC) |
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| + | :I would either delete it, or copy it over mine (and complete the style). I experimented with that style a little, along the lines of |
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| − | ===Cataclysm=== |
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| + | :* [50] A Call to Arms: The Plaguelands! {{FactionIcon|Alliance|small}} {{quest|A Call to Arms: The Plaguelands! (Alliance)|(Alliance)}} /{{FactionIcon|Horde|small}} {{quest|A Call to Arms: The Plaguelands! (Horde)|(Horde)}} |
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| − | {{cata-section}} |
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| + | :... but it didn't seem to add a lot. Truncating only ''one'' of the links seemed biased, and using both at full length was entirely too long IMO. |
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| − | [[File:GarroshCata.jpg|thumb|Garrosh Hellscream in [[Orgrimmar]].]] |
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| − | Following the [[shattering]], Garrosh begins to take a far more aggressive stance in his war with the Alliance - leading his forces in a rampage through [[Ashenvale]] in order to secure the much sought after supplies his people need. His actions have caused the orcish people to avoid the famine that threatened [[Durotar]] prior to his ascension. He believes that if the blood of the selfish Alliance is required to give his people the essentials they need to exist, then so be it.<ref>http://us.battle.net/wow/en/blog/2629898</ref> |
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| + | :Call To is purely a breadcrumb. And yeah, the first bits in it are required but not strictly part of the chain. I hadn't gotten to the point of putting it to prose, but I would definitely have gotten that. I'll probably punt a bit and put the chain into the two sections: f---ing around and 'making the key'. The first part is posited as "you've now proved your worth to me, so here's what I really want you to do". Much like [[The Great Masquerade quest chain]]. It is perhaps an overused device, but there it is. --[[User:Eirik Ratcatcher|Eirik Ratcatcher]] ([[User talk:Eirik Ratcatcher#top|talk]]) 21:52, August 3, 2010 (UTC) |
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| − | Garrosh evicts the majority of non-orc and non-tauren NPCs from central Orgrimmar, believing only they possess the strength to truly defend the city. However, every race is still accounted for and while being a tough leader, Garrosh sees value in all the races that belong to the Horde and uses them to the best of that value.<ref>[[World of Warcraft: The Magazine Issue 1]], pg 19</ref> |
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| + | :Bleah. Okies. I'm going to call it good for the day, just having spruced the infinity of quests involved with that chain. More tomorrow. --[[User:Eirik Ratcatcher|Eirik Ratcatcher]] ([[User talk:Eirik Ratcatcher#top|talk]]) 23:10, August 3, 2010 (UTC) |
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| − | Garrosh comes into conflict with the [[Darkspear]] Chieftain [[Vol'jin]], Garrosh's relationship with him breaking down in a similar manner to that of Cairne - culminating with Vol'jin threatening to kill him for his thirst for war. Garrosh banishes him for this act, and Vol'jin relocates to the [[Darkspear Isle]]. Following Thrall's intervention, Vol'jin admits that he may have acted harshly, and that Garrosh's intentions are at the very least, noble.<ref>http://www.wowpedia.org/Quest:Sen%27jin_Village</ref> Where this leaves the two leaders is unknown. |
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| + | ::Deleted. The style you picked up is the one I've started using for quest chains of equivalent length. Not quite sure yet what to do about quest chains which aren't, or which have neutral quests mixed into the middle, as the numbering isn't proper in those cases. --[[User:Sky2042|Sky]] ([[User talk:Sky2042|t]] · [[Special:Contributions/Sky2042|c]]) 02:35, August 6, 2010 (UTC) |
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| + | == [http://www.wowwiki.com/index.php?title=Death_knight&diff=2372249&oldid=2372202 their former factions] == |
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| − | Following the defeat of [[Trade Prince Gallywix]], [[Thrall]] sends [[goblin]] agents to meet with Garrosh and join the Horde. Garrosh is shown an [[SI:7]] emblem, and notes that he knows the meaning of this all too well. |
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| + | To be right, it has to make sense. Such wording fails to do so. |
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| − | Garrosh's thin tolerance for the [[Forsaken]] is tested further after he orders them to invade [[Gilneas]], as the Horde needs a port in the Eastern Kingdoms. Though Gilneas is initially conquered, the Gilneans are able to counterattack and push the Forsaken forces out of the city. Growing irritated, Garrosh sends his own forces to support the Forsaken, and a stalemate is reached. Garrosh later meets with [[Lady Sylvanas Windrunner]] in [[Silverpine Forest]], and is present during her demonstration of the [[val'kyr]]'s great necromantic abilities. Though the Forsaken are appeased enough by this solution to their plight as a people, Garrosh is disgusted. He dispenses [[High Warlord Cromush]] to "guard" Lady Sylvanas, and after an insulting exchange with her, leaves. |
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| + | ''"The factions, the two factions, their former enemies..."'' make sense. But how were the factions ''their'' factions? Your revert of my edit lowers the quality of the article, I do ask you reconsider your stance on the matter. [[File:A_F_K_sig_2.jpg|50px|link=User:A_F_K_When_Needed]] [[User:A_F_K_When_Needed|A F K]] [[User_talk:A_F_K_When_Needed|When]] [[Special:Contributions/A_F_K_When_Needed|Needed]] 22:46, September 1, 2010 (UTC) |
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| − | Garrosh has also explicitly banned use of the Forsaken blight, though weaker versions are considered acceptable. Most of the Forsaken seem to pay little heed to this, however, and the more powerful strains have been used multiple times since. |
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| + | :Their time amongst the Scourge was relatively short, and limited mostly to the death knight intro chain. Before they died, they were members of the Horde and Alliance, and have rejoined the factions they were once a part of. -- [[User:Dark T Zeratul|Dark T Zeratul]] ([[User talk:Dark T Zeratul|talk]]) 22:53, September 1, 2010 (UTC) |
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| − | [[File:Garrosh Krom.jpg|thumb|Garrosh dismisses [[Overlord Krom'gar]].]] |
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| − | During the events of [[Ashenvale]], a demon named Durak attempts to renew the orcs' dependence on fel-power. Garrosh demands his head for this transgression. |
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| + | == Your opinion is desired == |
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| − | Following [[Overlord Krom'gar]]'s assault in the [[Stonetalon Mountains]], Krom'gar's [[General Grebo|corrupt general]] arranges the murder of several neutral druids studying in the [[Thal'darah Grove]]. Krom'gar uses a massive bomb to completely eradicate the Grove, though Garrosh himself confronts him for these actions. Quoting words he had heard from [[Varok Saurfang|"a wise old war hero"]], Garrosh grabs Krom'gar by the neck, and hurls him off the ledge of [[Cliffwalker Post]]. He is humbled by [[High Chieftain Cliffwalker]]'s talk of "mercy", and thanks him for this lesson. |
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| + | Hey, you're a prolific editor, and I'm not sure if you've noticed, but [[Forum:Should WoWWiki leave Wikia?|we are discussing leaving Wikia]]. I know you've been down on their additions of JavaScript and other annoying features so I would be keen to hear your opinions here. Let me know if you have any questions - or post them there on the forums. --{{User:Pcj/sig}} 21:09, October 5, 2010 (UTC) |
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| + | :We have a host and a new domain (which you could access if you want). [[special:emailuser/Sky2042|Drop me an email]] or ping me on [[WP:IRC|IRC]] if you have specific questions of that nature. --[[User:Sky2042|Sky]] ([[User talk:Sky2042|t]] · [[Special:Contributions/Sky2042|c]]) 22:15, October 13, 2010 (UTC) |
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| − | Garrosh later sends [[Warlord Bloodhilt]] to salvage the situation in the [[Southern Barrens]]. |
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| + | ::I am believing that the differences with wikia are irreconcilable at this point, and that a move is inevitable. Has there been consideration of changing the copyright from CC-BY-SA to CC-BY-SA-NC? --[[User:Eirik Ratcatcher|Eirik Ratcatcher]] ([[User talk:Eirik Ratcatcher#top|talk]]) 20:45, October 14, 2010 (UTC) |
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| − | Garrosh personally spearheads the assault into the [[Twilight Highlands]], organizing an impressive air fleet to obliterate the [[Twilight's Hammer]] cult, and claim the land for the Horde. After giving an inspiring speech to this effect, Garrosh is informed of an Alliance fleet nestled below- and orders his air support to destroy them. However, this backfires when - due to treachery from within - the Horde fleet is ambushed, undefended, by [[Deathwing]] and his twilight drakes. Though Garrosh is personally able to fend one such drake off, his ship itself suffers massive damage and falls into the ocean below. The remainder of the fleet suffers a similar fate, crashing down into the sea. Garrosh himself is considered missing in action. |
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| + | == Fingers crossed == |
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| − | Without Garrosh's direct leadership, the Horde turns to the neighbouring [[Dragonmaw Clan]] to strike up an alliance. After failed negotiations with their master, [[Overlord Mor'ghor]], the Horde forces join a Dragonmaw rebellion led by [[Warlord Zaela]], successfully dethroning Mor'ghor and his [[fel orc]]s. Garrosh, who had survived the crash, arrives at [[Dragonmaw Port]] and officially inducts Zaela and the Dragonmaw into the Horde. |
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| + | Hopefully, that worked. Are you able to edit now? --{{User:Pcj/sig}} 18:27, 20 October 2010 (UTC) |
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| + | :It took password recovery/reset for me to get back in. Neither my old password nor Sock Puppet's password worked. Alas, poor Sock Puppet. I knew him, Pcj. A puppet of most excellent fancy. --[[User:Eirik Ratcatcher|Eirik Ratcatcher]] ([[User talk:Eirik Ratcatcher#top|talk]]) 18:40, 20 October 2010 (UTC) |
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| − | With the assault on the Highlands going well, Garrosh turns his attention inwards- and learns that the earlier ambush was a result of treachery at the hands of [[Sauranok the Mystic]], who had thrown his lot in with the Twilight's Hammer. Garrosh quickly disposes of the treacherous Sauranok with the player's assistance. |
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| + | ::Huh, well at least password reset worked. Good to know. --{{User:Pcj/sig}} 18:41, 20 October 2010 (UTC) |
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| + | :::On Password recovery, it looks like your trying to set a new password. Surely you'd want the "re-type password" field as well, wouldn't you? --[[User:Eirik Ratcatcher|Eirik Ratcatcher]] ([[User talk:Eirik Ratcatcher#top|talk]]) 18:42, 20 October 2010 (UTC) |
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| + | ::::You do have to enter it twice, you just didn't see the whole process. --{{User:Pcj/sig}} 18:46, 20 October 2010 (UTC) |
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| + | What's the prognosis on watchlist recovery too? I'm drawing a blank currently. --[[User:Eirik Ratcatcher|Eirik Ratcatcher]] ([[User talk:Eirik Ratcatcher#top|talk]]) 18:44, 20 October 2010 (UTC) |
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| − | ==In World of Warcraft== |
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| + | :That can't happen automatically, you can copy it yourself from http://www.wowwiki.com/Special:Watchlist/raw to [[Special:Watchlist/raw]]. --{{User:Pcj/sig}} 18:46, 20 October 2010 (UTC) |
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| − | ===Locations=== |
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| + | ::... |
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| − | Garrosh can be found in the following locations: |
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| + | ::I can't, actually, copy the entire list. The server has a 30 second timeout on requests. I got about 3/4 of the list copied over (~8-9k pages). I'll have to go back and flag the forum pages, and some selected other pages. Beyond that, I'll be paying scant attention to pages below "skinning"... :) --[[User:Eirik Ratcatcher|Eirik Ratcatcher]] ([[User talk:Eirik Ratcatcher#top|talk]]) 20:04, 20 October 2010 (UTC) |
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| + | DarkVector seems to be missing the "add to watchlist" button.... "Standard" skin seems to have it... at the bottom. Not terribly convenient for mass-adding. :) --[[User:Eirik Ratcatcher|Eirik Ratcatcher]] ([[User talk:Eirik Ratcatcher#top|talk]]) 20:09, 20 October 2010 (UTC) |
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| − | {{bc-section}} |
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| + | :It's not missing, it's just hidden behind the dropdown next to View history. --{{User:Pcj/sig}} 20:13, 20 October 2010 (UTC) |
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| − | *[[Garadar]], [[Nagrand]] (one of the military leaders of the [[Mag'har]]) |
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| + | ::Hidden certainly, as it has no alt-text behind the image. So with images not loaded, no menu indicator. --[[User:Eirik Ratcatcher|Eirik Ratcatcher]] ([[User talk:Eirik Ratcatcher#top|talk]]) 20:16, 20 October 2010 (UTC) |
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| + | :::Hmm. Eventually, we'll work up the old Monobook too, and that has a separate watchlist link. --{{User:Pcj/sig}} 20:19, 20 October 2010 (UTC) |
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| + | ==Your opinion is desired== |
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| − | {{wotlk-section}} |
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| + | Hello. |
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| − | *[[Warsong Hold]], [[Borean Tundra]] (master of the Hold) |
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| − | *[[Argent Tournament Grounds]], [[Icecrown]] (arriving with Thrall to observe the tournament) |
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| − | *[[Crusaders' Coliseum]]: [[Trial of the Champion]] and [[Trial of the Crusader]] (observes the battles in the arena, and sends his champions to fight the Alliance during the [[Faction Champions]] event) |
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| − | *[[Light's Hammer]], [[Icecrown Citadel (instance)|Icecrown Citadel]] (provides the [[Hellscream's Warsong]] buff for the Horde; [[patch 3.3.2]]) |
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| + | I just wanted to solicit your opinion on [[Template talk:Dungeons#Abandon Dungeons to Instancefooter|whether]] {{t|Instancefooter}} [[Template talk:Dungeons#Abandon Dungeons to Instancefooter|should replace]] {{t|Dungeons}}} [[Template talk:Dungeons#Abandon Dungeons to Instancefooter|or not]]. |
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| − | {{cata-section}} |
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| − | *[[Grommash Hold]], [[Orgrimmar]] (Warchief of the Horde) |
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| − | *[[Forsaken High Command]], [[Silverpine Forest]] (arriving to observe the inclusion of the [[Val'kyr]] into Forsaken ranks) |
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| − | *[[Cliffwalker Post]], [[Stonetalon Mountains]] (punishing one of his high-ranked members for being dishonorable during {{quest|To Be Horde...}}) |
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| − | *[[Twilight Highlands]] (Leading the Horde zeppelins assault into the Highlands) |
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| + | Thanks. |
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| − | ===Tactics=== |
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| − | The battle with Garrosh is arguably the most difficult of all the faction leaders, a major factor being his strategic position. At face value, the several entrances to Orgrimmar can seem appealing to a would-be raid, though Grommash Hold itself has been moved to the most populated area of Orgrimmar- leaving Garrosh flanked by a large amount of Horde players at almost all times. Garrosh's lack of elite guards is compensated by the [[Warchief's Herald]] that pulls with him, and the small amount of space allocated for the fight- leaving most of the raid susceptible to [[AOE]] and easy [[crowd control]] from Horde players, most deadly being chain [[fear]]s on healers or tanks. |
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| − | [[Image:Grommash Hold Cata2.jpg|thumb|250px|Grommash Hold in the center of Orgrimmar.]] |
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| + | {{User:A'noob/sig}} 06:41, 13 November 2010 (UTC) |
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| − | Garrosh has a number of powerful abilities in his arsenal. In addition to a melee [[cleave]], he possesses a [[bladestorm]]-like ability which slows his movement speed by 50%, dealing roughly 15000 damage to everyone in the vicinity every second, for six seconds total. Garrosh also uses berserker charge, dealing roughly 17k damage and knocking back the target by 15 yards. He also makes use of a [[shockwave]] ability with an impressive range, dealing around 17k damage to all enemies to his front and stunning them for 5 seconds. |
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| + | ==Coppercost== |
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| − | The fight with Garrosh is highly unpredictable due to the immediate outside interference. The near constant threat of a large Horde defense force can make or break the attempt, and a wipe can be incredibly difficult to recover from. |
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| + | We use {{t|coppercost}} because it's easier to [[Forum:New 'labs' feature - automatically create starter item pages|auto-generate quest articles]] from DB sites like Sigrie which don't break up the amounts. --{{User:Pcj/sig}} 21:47, 2 December 2010 (UTC) |
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| + | :Seems like a false economy to me... Leaving Coppercost in place simply defers the "split up the cost" calculation to *every*time*the*page*is*loaded. Surely at a minimum, a second pass could be done to break Coppercost useage down to Cost... --[[User:Eirik Ratcatcher|Eirik Ratcatcher]] ([[User talk:Eirik Ratcatcher#top|talk]]) 21:52, 2 December 2010 (UTC) |
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| − | The best way to deal with Garrosh is to strike at a time where Orgrimmar's player traffic will be lowest, and downing him as fast as possible within Grommash hold. Pulling him outside is ill advised, as the Horde will become even more aware of their Warchief's predicament, and a massive wave of constant guard spawns in addition to this can prove disastrous. If the raid is successful, a quick escape is vital -- like [[Lor'themar Theron]], Garrosh is only on a 5-10 minute respawn timer. |
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| + | == RE: WoWwiki attribution == |
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| − | Players must also be careful of Horde players kiting [[Gamon]] into the area now that he is a level 85 elite. Gamon will randomly charge players and use his battleshout to increase Garrosh's attack power. |
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| + | Does [[Forum:Attribution of content from WoWWiki on Wowpedia]] and [[Forum:Attribution of content from Wowpedia on WoWWiki]] help?--{{User:Sandwichman2448/Sig}} 23:44, 1 April 2011 (UTC) |
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| − | Time is a factor with most city leaders, and Garrosh is perhaps the most notable example as to why. |
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| + | :Probably. I'll check them out in a minute. Of some amusement what my edit of [[WoWWiki]] has sparked. And all from having tried to vet a new link on [[Priest builds]].... --[[User:Eirik Ratcatcher|Eirik Ratcatcher]] ([[User talk:Eirik Ratcatcher#top|talk]]) 23:48, 1 April 2011 (UTC) |
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| − | ===Abilities=== |
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| + | ::Sparking things is often good.--{{User:Sandwichman2448/Sig}} 23:49, 1 April 2011 (UTC) |
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| − | *{{abilities|Berserker Charge| 40 yrd range. Charges at an enemy, knocking it back and inflicting 16187 to 18812 Physical damage.|id=84742|image=ability warrior charge|}} |
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| + | :::Tell that to the tinder. :) --[[User:Eirik Ratcatcher|Eirik Ratcatcher]] ([[User talk:Eirik Ratcatcher#top|talk]]) 23:50, 1 April 2011 (UTC) |
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| − | *{{abilities|Demoralizing Shout| Reduces the melee attack power of nearby enemies by 20% for 15 sec.|id=61044|image=Ability warrior warcry|}} |
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| − | *{{abilities|Shockwave| Sends a wave of force in front of the warrior, causing damage and stunning all enemy targets within 10 yards in a frontal cone for 4 sec.|id=84715|image=Ability_warrior_shockwave|}} |
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| − | *{{abilities|Whirlwind| Deals 14137 to 15862 damage per 1 sec to surrounding enemies. Movement speed slowed by 50%.|id=84724|image=ability_whirlwind|}} |
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| + | ::::Hi, Tinder. If it helps: WoWWiki's Wowpedia page claims that "Wowpedia does not currently attribute content copied from WoWWiki, although they may do so at a later date." The reasoning was that Wowpedia does not currently copy content from WoWWiki, barring the initial fork. We have a dedicated user base, so we do not need to. Fandyllic was unable or unwilling to find a page copied after the fork, possibly preferring to just deal with principals.--{{User:Sandwichman2448/Sig}} 23:49, 1 April 2011 (UTC) |
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| − | == Garrosh's armor == |
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| − | [[File:Garrosh comic.jpg|thumb|Garrosh at the Theramore peace summit.]] |
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| − | {{Speculation}} |
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| − | As of Patch 4.0.3a, Mannoroth's skull has been moved to Grommash Hold in Orgrimmar's Valley of Strength. There, the skull can be seen as part of Garrosh's throne. |
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| + | == Techbot == |
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| − | It appears that a large portion of the tusks were cut off and fashioned into Garrosh's new shoulder armor. |
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| + | Wheel war? I would not call it that. Why the vested interest? What did I miss?--{{User:Sandwichman2448/Sig}} 02:36, 6 May 2011 (UTC) |
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| − | ==Notable Dialogue== |
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| − | [[File:Garrosh Challenging Thrall.jpg|thumb|Garrosh challenging Thrall.]] |
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| − | |||
| − | ===Letter to Magatha Grimtotem=== |
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| − | In ''[[The Shattering: Prelude to Cataclysm]]'', during the Grimtotem uprising, Magatha sends a letter to Garrosh requesting his aid against Baine's forces. Having learned of the circumstances that led to him killing Cairne, Garrosh sends this reply: |
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| − | |||
| − | :''Unto Elder Crone Magatha of the Grimtotem,'' |
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| − | :''Acting Warchief of the Horde, Garrosh Hellscream,'' |
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| − | :''Sends his most sincere wishes for a slow and painful death.'' |
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| − | |||
| − | :'It has come to my attention that you have deprived me of a rightful kill. Cairne Bloodhoof was a hero to the Horde and an honorable member of a usually honorable race. It is with disgust and anger that I discover you have caused me to bring about his death through accidental treachery.'' |
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| − | |||
| − | :''Such tactics may work well for your renegade, honorless tribe and Alliance scum, but I despise them. It was my wish to fight Cairne fairly, and win or lose by my own skill or lack of it. Now I shall never know, and the cry of traitor will dog my steps until such time as I can sport your head on a pike and point to you as the real traitor.'' |
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| − | |||
| − | :''So...no. I will not be sending any truehearted orcs to fight alongside your treacherous, belly-crawling tribe. Your victory or your defeat is in the hands of your Earth Mother now. Either way, I look forward to hearing of your demise.'' |
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| − | |||
| − | :''You are on your own, Magatha, as friendless and disliked as you have ever been. Perhaps more. Enjoy your loneliness.'' |
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| − | |||
| − | ===Dialogue with Saurfang=== |
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| − | This is the full transcript of the dialogue between Garrosh and Saurfang: |
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| − | <poem> |
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| − | {{text|say|High Overlord Saurfang|We are surrounded ... Our enemies press in from all sides, young Hellscream. The [[Scourge]] descends like locusts from the north. The Alliance holds the only secure shipping lane in this region and even that is at risk of being lost to those dreaded mists. Our [[Vengeance Landing|only viable port]] for resupply is held by the Forsaken on the [[Howling Fjord|other side]] of [[Northrend|this blasted continent]]! Anything our [[zeppelin]]s cannot haul must be brought in by ship and travel the length of Northrend to reach us.}} |
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| − | {{text|emote|Garrosh Hellscream grunts.}} |
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| − | {{text|say|Garrosh Hellscream|Shipping lanes ... supplies ... You bore me to death! We need nothing more than the warrior spirit of the Horde, Saurfang! Now that we are firmly entrenched in this [[Northrend|frozen wasteland]], nothing shall stop us!}} |
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| − | {{text|say|High Overlord Saurfang|Siege engines, ammunition, heavy armor ... How do you propose to shatter the walls of [[Icecrown]] without those?}} |
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| − | {{text|say|Garrosh Hellscream|Propose? I will show you what I propose!}} |
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| − | ''Garrosh crushes the figures and flag indicating [[Valiance Keep]] on the map.'' |
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| − | {{text|say|Garrosh Hellscream|There... Now we now have a shipping lane. And just for good measure...}} |
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| − | ''Garrosh crushes the figures and flag indicating [[Valgarde]] and [[Westguard Keep]].'' |
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| − | {{text|say|High Overlord Saurfang|So the prodigal son has spoken! [[Grom Hellscream|Your father]]'s blood runs strong in you, Hellscream. Impatient as always... Impatient and reckless. You rush headlong into all-out war without a thought of the consequences.}} |
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| − | {{text|say|Garrosh Hellscream|Do not speak to me of consequences, old one.}} |
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| − | {{text|say|High Overlord Saurfang|I drank of the same [[Blood of Mannoroth|blood]] your father did, Garrosh. [[Mannoroth]]'s cursed venom pumped through my veins as well. I drove my weapons into the bodies and minds of my enemies. And while Grom died a glorious death - freeing us all from the [[Blood Curse|blood curse]] - he could not wipe away the terrible memory of our past. His act could not erase the horrors we committed.}} |
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| − | {{text|say|High Overlord Saurfang|The winter after the curse was lifted, hundreds of veteran orcs like me were lost to despair. Our minds were finally free, yes... Free to relive all of the unthinkable acts that we had performed under the [[Burning Legion|Legion]]'s influence.}} |
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| − | {{text|emote|High Overlord Saurfang nods.}} |
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| − | {{text|say|High Overlord Saurfang|I think it was the sounds of the [[draenei]] children that unnerved most of them... You never forget... Have you ever been to [[Jaggedswine Farm]]? When the swine are of age for the slaughter... It's that sound. The sound of the swine being killed... It resonates the loudest. Those are hard times for us older veterans.}} |
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| − | {{text|say|Garrosh Hellscream|But surely you cannot think that those children were born into innocence? They would have grown up and taken arms against us!}} |
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| − | {{text|emote|High Overlord Saurfang shakes his head.}} |
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| − | {{text|say|High Overlord Saurfang|I am not speaking solely of the children of our enemies...}} |
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| − | {{text|say|High Overlord Saurfang|I won't let you take us down that dark path again, young Hellscream. I'll kill you myself before that day comes...}} |
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| − | {{text|say|Garrosh Hellscream|How have you managed to survive for so long, Saurfang? Not fallen victim to your own memories?}} |
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| − | {{text|say|High Overlord Saurfang|I don't eat pork...}} |
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| − | {{text|emote|High Overlord Saurfang spits.}} |
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| − | </poem> |
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| − | |||
| − | ===Trial of the Crusader=== |
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| − | The Horde representatives arrive at the tournament: |
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| − | {{main|Argent Tournament#Alliance and Horde leadership}} |
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| − | |||
| − | ;Introduction to [[Faction Champions]], if playing as Alliance: |
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| − | <poem> |
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| − | {{text|yell|Highlord Tirion Fordring|The next battle will be against the Argent Crusade's most powerful knights! Only by defeating them will you be deemed worthy!}} |
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| − | {{text|yell|Garrosh Hellscream|The Horde demands justice! We challenge the Alliance! Allow us to battle in place of your knights, [[paladin]]. We will show these dogs what it means to insult the Horde.}} |
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| − | {{text|yell|Highlord Tirion Fordring|Very well, I will allow it. Fight with honor!}} |
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| − | {{text|yell|Garrosh Hellscream|Show them no mercy, Horde champions! LOK'TAR OGAR!}} |
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| − | </poem> |
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| − | |||
| − | ;Horde victory in Faction Champions: |
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| − | <poem> |
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| − | {{text|yell|Garrosh Hellscream|That was just a taste of what the future brings! For the Horde!}} |
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| − | {{text|yell|Highlord Tirion Fordring|A shallow and tragic victory. We are weaker as a whole from the losses suffered today. Who but the Lich King could benefit from such foolishness? Great warriors have lost their lives, and for what? The true threat looms ahead. The Lich King awaits us all in death.}} |
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| − | </poem> |
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| − | |||
| − | ===Garrosh's ascension=== |
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| − | {{main|Elemental Unrest meetings#At Grommash Hold}} |
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| − | |||
| − | ===Conversation with Vol'jin=== |
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| − | {{main|Quest:More Than Expected}} |
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| − | |||
| − | ===Meeting with Sylvanas=== |
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| − | {{main|Quest:The Warchief Cometh}} |
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| − | |||
| − | ===Stonetalon Mountains finale=== |
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| − | {{main|Quest:To Be Horde...}} |
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| − | ==Personality== |
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| − | [[File:Garrosh Hellscream artwork.jpg|thumb|250px|Garrosh brandishing the mighty Gorehowl.]] |
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| − | Much like his father, Garrosh is a warrior-born. Though Garrosh was once highly ashamed of his heritage, a new fighting spirit was awakened within him following Thrall's revelations about who Grom truly was. His hot-headed nature came to the test during the war in [[Northrend]], where Garrosh was quick to dismiss the more practical concerns during war in favour of a glorious battle, believing the fighting spirit of the Horde alone was enough to bring down the [[Scourge]]. He has employed ruthless but effective tactics on the battlefield, as noted by [[Varok Saurfang|Saurfang]]. Unlike Thrall, who preferred to keep discreet tabs on his more dubious allies (such as those speculated to have ties with the [[Shadow Council]]), Garrosh has no qualms about speaking his mind -- making no effort to hide his low opinion on the [[Forsaken]]. |
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| − | |||
| − | Garrosh strongly believes in the value of honor, and in a fair fight. This had led him to show a distaste for the tactics of both the Forsaken and the [[Alliance]], and threatened the life of [[Korm Blackscar]] after the events of the [[Broken Front]]. He personally executed [[Overlord Krom'gar]] for the murder of innocents, and seems to have gleamed a number of Saurfang's creeds. |
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| − | |||
| − | Garrosh is well-known for his fierce hatred of the Alliance. This appears to stem from his belief that the orcish people deserve a better quality of life than [[Durotar]] can offer, and views the Alliance as his primary obstacle in making this happen. To this end, he has expressed the desire for war with the Horde's rival faction multiple times, and was of the opinion that the Horde should simply take what it needs -- both before and after his ascension to [[Warchief]]. |
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| − | |||
| − | His disregard for a more diplomatic approach is applauded by many of the orcs, who view his uncompromising attitude in regards to securing his people a future to be inspiring. However, Garrosh himself is becoming aware of the tested bonds between he and his [[Vol'jin|fellow]] [[Baine Bloodhoof|leaders]] of the [[Sylvanas Windrunner|Horde]], though whether he places this dire realization on a higher pedestal than his dream of an invigorated, glorious Horde, is currently unknown.<ref> http://us.battle.net/wow/en/blog/2629898</ref> |
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| − | |||
| − | ==Quotes== |
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| − | |||
| − | ===In Orgrimmar=== |
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| − | *"Only the strongest may dwell in Orgrimmar." |
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| − | *"Live by these words: Lok'tar ogar. Victory...or death." |
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| − | *"Hellscream's eyes are upon you." |
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| − | *"You will serve the Horde...or be crushed beneath it!" |
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| − | |||
| − | ===Other=== |
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| − | *"After all that [[Grom Hellscream|he]] did for [[Thrall|YOU]] and [[Orcs|YOUR people?]] MAK'GORA!" (''To Thrall, following a situation in which Thrall mentions Grom Hellscream being a hothead'') |
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| − | *"Treacherous Alliance DOGS! You summon a [[Lord Jaraxxus|Demon Lord]] against Warriors of the HORDE?! Your deaths will be swift!" (''To Jaina and Varian inside the [[Argent Coliseum]]'') |
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| − | *"The [[Lich King]] sought to sow the seeds of fear. Let me be the first to show him the Horde fears nothing!" <ref>{{ref tcg|set=Scourgewar|number=175}}</ref> |
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| − | * "Kalimdor should be home to the '''orcs''', [[Rehgar]]. '''All''' of Kalimdor!" |
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| − | |||
| − | ==Trivia== |
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| − | *The PvE server, [[Server:Garrosh US|Garrosh US]], is named after Garrosh Hellscream. |
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| − | *Garrosh appears to be on extremely icy terms with his fellow leaders of the Horde. In fact, [[Lor'themar Theron]] and [[Jastor Gallywix]] seem to be the only racial leaders he has not had a harsh disagreement with. On the other hand, this may only the case because he hasn't ''met'' with either of them in-game or in the expanded universe novels/comics. |
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| − | *Though Thrall calls Garrosh "boy" in the pre-WotLK event, looking at the timeline and reading ''Beyond the Dark Portal'' suggests Garrosh is actually older. |
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| − | *Garrosh's appearance (bulky with a shaved head) is practically the inverse of Grom's (lean with long hair). |
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| − | *Garrosh initially appears to be a Fury Warrior, dual wielding [[Bleeding Crescent]]s. After his extended tour of duty in Northrend and receiving [[Gorehowl]] from [[Thrall]], however, he appears wielding his father's axe alone; presumably, he was taught the finer point of Arms from [[Varok Saurfang|Varok Saurfang]]. |
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| − | *He retains his old model in [[Warsong Hold]] and [[Garadar]] and only uses his new voice in Warsong Hold. He uses a regular orc voice in Garadar. |
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| − | *[[Garrosh's Rage]] is named after him. |
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| − | |||
| − | ==Gallery== |
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| − | <gallery captionalign="left"> |
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| − | File:Garrosh Hellscream TCG.jpg|Garrosh in the TCG |
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| − | File:Garrosh Hellscream comic.jpg|Garrosh in the Comic |
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| − | File:Thrallvgarroshdc9.jpg|Garrosh challenges Thrall |
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| − | File:Garrosh_Action_Figure.jpg|The Garrosh action figure |
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| − | File:Magazine3CoverArtworkFront.jpg|Garrosh on his throne |
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| − | File:Garrosh 4.0.jpg|Garrosh after patch 4.0.1 with a new model, but still wielding his original axes |
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| − | File:Garrosh_Glowei_Cropped.jpg|Garrosh by Glowei |
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| − | </gallery> |
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| − | |||
| − | ==Videos== |
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| − | {| class="darktable" style="text-align:center; float:left;" |
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| − | ! |
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| − | |- |
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| − | | <youtube>iA6DvBvUQPk</youtube> |
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| − | |} |
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| − | {{clear|both}} |
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| − | ===Lore For Noobs=== |
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| − | {{youtubelink|Bw6a46bzVaY|desc=Lore For Noobs Garrosh Hellscream}} |
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| − | {{clear|both}} |
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| − | |||
| − | ==References== |
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| − | {{Reflist}} |
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| − | |||
| − | ==External links== |
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| − | <!-- Read http://www.wowpedia.org/Wowpedia:External_links before posting your links here. |
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| − | Links that do not conform to the rules will be DELETED. |
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| − | Repeat violations may result in a BAN. |
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| − | Have a nice day. :) --> |
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| − | {| class=darktable style="text-align:center" |
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| − | ! Nagrand !! Borean Tundra !! Icecrown !! Icecrown Citadel !! Orgrimmar |
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| − | |- |
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| − | | {{elinks-NPC|18063}} |
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| − | | {{elinks-NPC|25237}} |
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| − | | {{elinks-NPC|35372}} |
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| − | | {{elinks-NPC|39372}} |
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| − | | {{elinks-NPC|39605}} |
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| − | |} |
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| − | |||
| − | {{Succession|[[Grom Hellscream]]|'''[[Warsong clan|Chieftain of the Warsong Clan]]'''|Incumbent}} |
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| − | {{Succession|[[Thrall]]|'''[[Warchief]] of the [[Horde]]'''|Incumbent}} |
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| − | |||
| − | {{New Horde}} |
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| − | {{Main characters}} |
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| − | {{DEFAULTSORT:Hellscream, Garrosh}} |
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| − | [[Category:Borean Tundra NPCs]] |
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| − | [[Category:City bosses]] |
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| − | [[Category:Icecrown Citadel NPCs]] |
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| − | [[Category:Mag'har]] |
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| − | [[Category:Nagrand NPCs]] |
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| − | [[Category:Quest givers]] |
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| − | [[Category:Unique models]] |
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| − | [[Category:Warriors]] |
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| − | [[Category:Warsong Offensive NPCs]] |
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| − | [[Category:World of Warcraft: Beyond the Dark Portal characters]] |
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| − | [[Category:World of Warcraft: The Shattering: Prelude to Cataclysm characters]] |
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| − | [[Category:World of Warcraft: Leaders of Azeroth characters]] |
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| − | [[Category:World of Warcraft (comic) characters]] |
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| − | [[es:Garrosh Hellscream]] |
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| − | [[fr:Garrosh Hurlenfer]] |
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| − | [[nl:Garrosh Hellscream]] |
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| − | [[pl:Garrosh Hellscream]] |
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Revision as of 02:37, 6 May 2011
- Previous discussions archived:
No *source* heading for artifacts
You can change it if you want, thats just how it was on the sample page I decided to use, so I tried to make it the same for all. Kaideliana (talk) 00:23, 25 January 2011 (UTC)
Disambig reverts
Nothing wrong with the existing Disambig page. I'm sure we've been through this before - disambiguation templates on quest articles. It's not a neutral quest and the information is already on the respective quest articles, so what's wrong with a single disambiguation? --g0urra[T҂C] 17:41, June 28, 2010 (UTC)
- Yes, we have been through it before. I maintain that it is effectively a neutral quest regardless. The text for the quest is identical, only the particular NPC (bonfire, whatever) giving it changes between factions. The disambigs specifically point to the factionated pages. To turn your question around, what's wrong with a more descriptive disambiguation, esp given they've been there for two years without complaint? --Eirik Ratcatcher (talk) 17:50, June 28, 2010 (UTC)
- Just hopping in to say: Are the texts substantially the same (aside from NPCs and locations and such)? I don't see why the couldn't be combined on the quest pages in favor of having two separate 'horde' and 'alliance' pages, such as what I did at A Show of Good Faith and related pages. --Sky (t · c) 17:46, June 28, 2010 (UTC)
- Both of you know that I am generally in favor of that solution. So... I'm not the one you have to convince.
--Eirik Ratcatcher (talk) 17:50, June 28, 2010 (UTC)
- Both of you know that I am generally in favor of that solution. So... I'm not the one you have to convince.
Torch Catching
Moved to User talk:A'noob#Torch catching guide
Twink Edits
Thank You for not immediately deleting the twink category and allowing us to discuss it beforehand. Part of the reason that I put Whirlwind in the category in the first place was that even when it was an active BG for the 19s there were a lot of people from Ruin declaiming it and stating that Ruin was the only place for twinks. As you can imagine this created a lot of dismay. However, it seems that even the Whirlwind battlegroup has died off in the twink non-exp community, hence my willingness to delete my (own addmittedly) inaccurate information. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Fluentinjapanese (talk · contr).
Quest chains and such
Quest chains part 1
What I'm really doing is prepping to move all the quests out of their pseudonamespace (ambitious, I know), and I'd like to do it without leaving links behind, i.e., move with [redirect suppressed]. The problem with {{:Quest:<some name>}} and {{:Quest:<some name>/Chain}} (and variants) is that I'd break the transclusions if I did so with redirect suppressed.
To correct the second type of case, I've been moving those chains with 5+ quests to the new category and naming. To correct the first type of case, you just saw what I did (5+ rule here applies as well). The others I've been substing as appropriate.
As for {{:<quest chain name>}}, I'm just moving the quests/summary part of each to the space. It makes it easier to categorize.
To do so, I'm running my bot account using AWB. --Sky (t · c) 20:31, July 8, 2010 (UTC)
- There are occasional chains of fewer than 5 quests that are still noteworthy. Not many, but some. Perhaps more with Cataclysm. --Eirik Ratcatcher (talk) 20:37, July 8, 2010 (UTC)
- Name collisions: Almost the entirety are either related to bosses or items or items (I'd estimate the number of possible collisions at a mere 10%), so it seems sensible to append (quest) to those pages. The others will be rare, and are likely already disambiguated because there are other related quest names. This actually removes a good deal of disambiguation, because there are a ton of quests that don't need "Quest:".
As for lines, it's because I was more properly formatting it as a definition list (";" and ":"), without the line breaks between each, otherwise MediaWiki creates a new list for each item (which isn't proper by any means!). There's probably a better way to do it overall.
Some, I'm sure. The few which you've already written quest chain pages for I'll keep together. The others you're going to need to hunt down for yourself. :P --Sky (t · c) 20:40, July 8, 2010 (UTC)
- Name collisions: Almost the entirety are either related to bosses or items or items (I'd estimate the number of possible collisions at a mere 10%), so it seems sensible to append (quest) to those pages. The others will be rare, and are likely already disambiguated because there are other related quest names. This actually removes a good deal of disambiguation, because there are a ton of quests that don't need "Quest:".
- In as much as it was intended as a formatting shortcut rather than a list, I'm not particularly adhering to the ";"/":" list recreation. If you think different markup would achieve an aesthetically pleasing format, please suggest it. TBH, I have done without the one-level indentation on many quest chain pages. Do you have a preference for either style?
- ... and really, the concept of looking up a quest in the main namespace is something that would take me some getting used to, after all this time. --Eirik Ratcatcher (talk) 20:46, July 8, 2010 (UTC)
- Whitespace in the markup, or in the page itself? Without at least one (additional) line break, the description turns into the aforementioned "wall of text". But that leaves the "break before the next quest" indistinct IMO. Maybe someone will suggest something, or something will suggest itself. --Eirik Ratcatcher (talk) 21:01, July 8, 2010 (UTC)
- Both. Grab me a link so that I can see how you've done it "the other way".
Hmm, that last quest chain move: Should have moved it to template space and recatted it. I have no problem with keeping chains you mark as needing keeping, but the chains themselves should be template spaced. Feel free to move any other quest chains that you feel need keeping with <5 quests, or to simply recat the ones in Category:Quest chains/Category:Transcludable pages, or to make up a list here or elsewhere so I can avoid killing those quest chains off. It would be easier for me if you did the one of the two former. That said, you've got some time to consider which ones, as I'm working through all the quest chains that gourra screwed around with. And that's 1500 quests. D: --Sky (t · c) 21:12, July 8, 2010 (UTC)
- Both. Grab me a link so that I can see how you've done it "the other way".
<Indent normalization concluded> The Great Masquerade quest chain for an alternate quest chain format that avoided the indent and space issues. Looking at that, I think I prefer it to the indent-and-space method, though paragraph spacing still needs to be retained. Problem with ":" for paragraphing is that **it isn't paragraph indenting**; that is, it isn't "first line indenting". *sigh* From my PoV: moving from Q:name/chain to "name quest chain" is the same as from "Tpt:name" to "name quest chain", no? From yours: duplicates work. Problem: I can only convert so fast, and dangling quest chain pages are an offense against nature. :P
Small chains... I'm not *entirely* convinced I should even bother transcluding in the chain page, if all it contributes is the quest list. Esp with Cataclysm bearing down on us. --Eirik Ratcatcher (talk) 21:23, July 8, 2010 (UTC)
- Not duplicates per se, more like separating repeatable content (template) and non-repeatable (rest of quest chain page). Think of the quest chain templates as the equivalent of Navboxes and the quest chain pages as the main topic page (e.g., Template:Stormwind City and Stormwind City).
Lol, offense. You don't need to convert every page. I just need to distinguish 'generic quest chain' from 'ER Approved Quest Chain'. So either recat, move to template space, make me a list, something...
As for ":" not being paragraph indenting: It's not supposed to be. Heh. I've been using it on the quest chain pages because that's what it's used for (or should be used for) on the Internetz. That other format of quest chain pages, for example, would more correctly use ; and :... Hmm... --Sky (t · c) 21:43, July 8, 2010 (UTC)
- Sorry... "duplicates" as in "I did work I didn't have to". I'll do what I can. Um... "More correctly?" In that both are layout styles, I'm hard pressed to call either "correct". Especially as my standard is solely "does it look good, and link usefully?" Just because most of the internet uses crap for formatting doesn't mean we have to. "Well, you wouldn't jump off a bridge just because someone told you to, would you?" "Not again!" --Eirik Ratcatcher (talk) 21:48, July 8, 2010 (UTC)
- Oh, ok.
It's not that the Internet uses crap, it's that wiki (in general) doesn't do specific CSS real well (i.e., CSS handing on wiki is the crap :P). For example, on a site like ours (but without being a wiki), where they decided to make quest chain pages, they'd use the correct markup (: and ; using the HTML forms), and then give the list a separate class (e.g. "quest_chain_page"), which they could then style separately. Not so easy nor wanted for a wiki.
Have a think on tweaks to the format. --Sky (t · c) 21:57, July 8, 2010 (UTC)
- Oh, ok.
- You dislike the "bullet+bold" quest names, with unindented quest description details beneath? --Eirik Ratcatcher (talk) 22:01, July 8, 2010 (UTC)
- While I'm not especially pleased with it, I could probably tolerate it. It fails to attach the title (quest) to the position on the page the same way that a bullet point does. Note, though, that it's the bullet character that makes it notable for me, not the associated "element of a list" that comes with a bullet, if that is tickling you wrong. (However, between "forego the bullet point" and "insert a template that puts a bullet character there", I'd have to choose the foregoing. There has to be a balance between effort and style...) --Eirik Ratcatcher (talk) 22:11, July 8, 2010 (UTC)
An inconvenience generated by your change is that I cannot simply copy the Summary section into the quest chain description; I have to go to a separate page. (I'll point again to the whole "let's create an entirely new page just for this when it isn't necessary" thing.) --Eirik Ratcatcher (talk) 18:27, July 9, 2010 (UTC)
- But a convenience generated is that we can now see all the templates and see how terribly un-standardized they are. :D. That, and more easily separate out the templates which have an article that stands as the quest chain page and those that don't (Quest chain templates and Quest chain templates with articles).
One more thing: In Category:Quest chains, can you decide on the two remaining /quest chain pages under "B" for me? Leave a note here on whether to keep or delete them. --Sky (t · c) 00:51, July 11, 2010 (UTC) - And "O", if you will. --Sky (t · c) 01:58, July 11, 2010 (UTC)
- As well as "D". And that's all for the day! --Sky (t · c) 23:33, July 11, 2010 (UTC)
- B, O, and D moved. Stubbed the ones I thought were most interesting, though Decipher the Tome has some lore I did not remember from the alliance side, and so may be worthy. So many quest chains to document. ... does ANYONE else create them? And am I monologging? Sometimes it can be hard to tell if I'm creating something anyone actually finds useful or entertaining. --Eirik Ratcatcher (talk) 23:15, July 13, 2010 (UTC)
Heh, yeah. --Sky (t · c) 01:48, July 21, 2010 (UTC)
H needs an opinion. Cheers. And J could probably be added to your projects/could use your cleanup; I recall the subject of 
[Morrowgrain] being fairly big. There's 3 or 4 quests other than the two on the solitary J. --Sky (t · c) 17:47, July 25, 2010 (UTC)
- You would hand me J and the tangle that is Morrowgrain... *sigh*. --Eirik Ratcatcher (talk) 18:16, July 27, 2010 (UTC)
R has 3 /quest chains needing opinions. --Sky (t · c) 04:20, September 4, 2010 (UTC)
- Looking at them now. At this point, I'm disinclined to write up old world quest chains unless they are really special in some way, since they're going to be disappearing Very Shortly Now. --Eirik Ratcatcher (talk) 18:18, September 8, 2010 (UTC)
Quest chains, part 2
Haha, Key to Scholomance... I tried to put a chain together at Template:All Along the Watchtowers, which looks a lot like yours. Reading the comments in Wowhead, it didn't seem that it's a straight chain of each. Should I just deleted T:AAtW (it isn't used anywhere)? --Sky (t · c) 21:41, August 3, 2010 (UTC)
- I would either delete it, or copy it over mine (and complete the style). I experimented with that style a little, along the lines of
- [50] A Call to Arms: The Plaguelands!
(Alliance) /
(Horde)
- [50] A Call to Arms: The Plaguelands!
- ... but it didn't seem to add a lot. Truncating only one of the links seemed biased, and using both at full length was entirely too long IMO.
- Call To is purely a breadcrumb. And yeah, the first bits in it are required but not strictly part of the chain. I hadn't gotten to the point of putting it to prose, but I would definitely have gotten that. I'll probably punt a bit and put the chain into the two sections: f---ing around and 'making the key'. The first part is posited as "you've now proved your worth to me, so here's what I really want you to do". Much like The Great Masquerade quest chain. It is perhaps an overused device, but there it is. --Eirik Ratcatcher (talk) 21:52, August 3, 2010 (UTC)
- Bleah. Okies. I'm going to call it good for the day, just having spruced the infinity of quests involved with that chain. More tomorrow. --Eirik Ratcatcher (talk) 23:10, August 3, 2010 (UTC)
- Deleted. The style you picked up is the one I've started using for quest chains of equivalent length. Not quite sure yet what to do about quest chains which aren't, or which have neutral quests mixed into the middle, as the numbering isn't proper in those cases. --Sky (t · c) 02:35, August 6, 2010 (UTC)
their former factions
To be right, it has to make sense. Such wording fails to do so.
"The factions, the two factions, their former enemies..." make sense. But how were the factions their factions? Your revert of my edit lowers the quality of the article, I do ask you reconsider your stance on the matter. 
A F K When Needed 22:46, September 1, 2010 (UTC)
- Their time amongst the Scourge was relatively short, and limited mostly to the death knight intro chain. Before they died, they were members of the Horde and Alliance, and have rejoined the factions they were once a part of. -- Dark T Zeratul (talk) 22:53, September 1, 2010 (UTC)
Your opinion is desired
Hey, you're a prolific editor, and I'm not sure if you've noticed, but we are discussing leaving Wikia. I know you've been down on their additions of JavaScript and other annoying features so I would be keen to hear your opinions here. Let me know if you have any questions - or post them there on the forums. --Pcj (T•C) 21:09, October 5, 2010 (UTC)
- We have a host and a new domain (which you could access if you want). Drop me an email or ping me on IRC if you have specific questions of that nature. --Sky (t · c) 22:15, October 13, 2010 (UTC)
- I am believing that the differences with wikia are irreconcilable at this point, and that a move is inevitable. Has there been consideration of changing the copyright from CC-BY-SA to CC-BY-SA-NC? --Eirik Ratcatcher (talk) 20:45, October 14, 2010 (UTC)
Fingers crossed
Hopefully, that worked. Are you able to edit now? --Pcj (T•C) 18:27, 20 October 2010 (UTC)
- It took password recovery/reset for me to get back in. Neither my old password nor Sock Puppet's password worked. Alas, poor Sock Puppet. I knew him, Pcj. A puppet of most excellent fancy. --Eirik Ratcatcher (talk) 18:40, 20 October 2010 (UTC)
- Huh, well at least password reset worked. Good to know. --Pcj (T•C) 18:41, 20 October 2010 (UTC)
- On Password recovery, it looks like your trying to set a new password. Surely you'd want the "re-type password" field as well, wouldn't you? --Eirik Ratcatcher (talk) 18:42, 20 October 2010 (UTC)
- Huh, well at least password reset worked. Good to know. --Pcj (T•C) 18:41, 20 October 2010 (UTC)
What's the prognosis on watchlist recovery too? I'm drawing a blank currently. --Eirik Ratcatcher (talk) 18:44, 20 October 2010 (UTC)
- That can't happen automatically, you can copy it yourself from http://www.wowwiki.com/Special:Watchlist/raw to Special:Watchlist/raw. --Pcj (T•C) 18:46, 20 October 2010 (UTC)
- ...
- I can't, actually, copy the entire list. The server has a 30 second timeout on requests. I got about 3/4 of the list copied over (~8-9k pages). I'll have to go back and flag the forum pages, and some selected other pages. Beyond that, I'll be paying scant attention to pages below "skinning"... :) --Eirik Ratcatcher (talk) 20:04, 20 October 2010 (UTC)
DarkVector seems to be missing the "add to watchlist" button.... "Standard" skin seems to have it... at the bottom. Not terribly convenient for mass-adding. :) --Eirik Ratcatcher (talk) 20:09, 20 October 2010 (UTC)
- It's not missing, it's just hidden behind the dropdown next to View history. --Pcj (T•C) 20:13, 20 October 2010 (UTC)
- Hidden certainly, as it has no alt-text behind the image. So with images not loaded, no menu indicator. --Eirik Ratcatcher (talk) 20:16, 20 October 2010 (UTC)
Your opinion is desired
Hello.
I just wanted to solicit your opinion on whether {{Instancefooter}} should replace {{Dungeons}}} or not.
Thanks.
Loremaster A'noob, Arch Druid of the Noobhoof Clan (talk/contribz) 06:41, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
Coppercost
We use {{coppercost}} because it's easier to auto-generate quest articles from DB sites like Sigrie which don't break up the amounts. --Pcj (T•C) 21:47, 2 December 2010 (UTC)
- Seems like a false economy to me... Leaving Coppercost in place simply defers the "split up the cost" calculation to *every*time*the*page*is*loaded. Surely at a minimum, a second pass could be done to break Coppercost useage down to Cost... --Eirik Ratcatcher (talk) 21:52, 2 December 2010 (UTC)
RE: WoWwiki attribution
Does Forum:Attribution of content from WoWWiki on Wowpedia and Forum:Attribution of content from Wowpedia on WoWWiki help?--SWM2448 23:44, 1 April 2011 (UTC)
- Probably. I'll check them out in a minute. Of some amusement what my edit of WoWWiki has sparked. And all from having tried to vet a new link on Priest builds.... --Eirik Ratcatcher (talk) 23:48, 1 April 2011 (UTC)
- Sparking things is often good.--SWM2448 23:49, 1 April 2011 (UTC)
- Tell that to the tinder. :) --Eirik Ratcatcher (talk) 23:50, 1 April 2011 (UTC)
- Sparking things is often good.--SWM2448 23:49, 1 April 2011 (UTC)
- Hi, Tinder. If it helps: WoWWiki's Wowpedia page claims that "Wowpedia does not currently attribute content copied from WoWWiki, although they may do so at a later date." The reasoning was that Wowpedia does not currently copy content from WoWWiki, barring the initial fork. We have a dedicated user base, so we do not need to. Fandyllic was unable or unwilling to find a page copied after the fork, possibly preferring to just deal with principals.--SWM2448 23:49, 1 April 2011 (UTC)
Techbot
Wheel war? I would not call it that. Why the vested interest? What did I miss?--SWM2448 02:36, 6 May 2011 (UTC)